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“Batman’s newest villain woss jhedon ,a fat ginger scriptwriter with terrible puns and adr who doesn’t know when to shut the gently caress up and is constantly out of focus”.
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Apr 4, 2021 21:32
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Darko posted:You're saying he's not a Christ figure because he came back after sacrificing himself? On Easter? I think what SMG is talking about is that he doesnt come back just long enough to beat Steppenwolf and then zoom off to the heavens to be a symbol of hope. He stays around as a living being again, and the living are frankly dangerous. All those anxieties about whether there must be a Superman are back- for most people, it was much more comfortable for there to have been a Superman. Arthur prefers him safely dead. But you need more than a dead, abstract symbol: quote:Writing, Phaedrus, has this strange quality, and is very like painting; for the creatures of painting stand like living beings, but if one asks them a question, they preserve a solemn silence. And so it is with written words; you might think they spoke as if they had intelligence, but if you question them, wishing to know about their sayings, they always say only one and the same thing. And every word, when once it is written, is bandied about, alike among those who understand and those who have no interest in it, and it knows not to whom to speak or not to speak; when ill-treated or unjustly reviled it always needs its father to help it; for it has no power to protect or help itself. What Arthur wants is actually the Superman controlled by Darkseid; the dead, pliable, symbolic Superman who is all things to all people: that is anti-life.
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Apr 4, 2021 21:44
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Timeless Appeal posted:Clock King with a bullet Glock King
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Apr 4, 2021 21:50
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Brazilianpeanutwar posted:Let’s say in a perfect world snyder has another hero movie in him what villain would you want? A Bizarro + Batzarro buddy crime film
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Apr 4, 2021 22:07
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Neurolimal posted:A Bizarro + Batzarro buddy crime film 
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Apr 4, 2021 22:23
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If there's ever a question to how to word opposite speak in a Bizarre script, I hope the answer is "whichever way is more confusing"
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Apr 4, 2021 22:25
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Darko posted:You're saying he's not a Christ figure because he came back after sacrificing himself? On Easter? Correct; the belief that Christ was literally resurrected - and that we can accomplish similar feats, in the service of God, through such technology as cloning - betrays a fundamentalist view of the events. The authentically radical interpretation of the Christ myth is that God died on the cross, and remains dead. Rebooting this particular dead alien doesn’t ‘bring God back to life’ in a philosophical sense - except in a bad way, where the characters embrace a comforting falsehood. The black suit version is just a very nice, and extremely strong dude.
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Apr 4, 2021 22:27
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Ironically, Snyder's original vision was entirely in line with the resurrection myth-- Superman/Jesus die for humanity's sake, and in doing so lose the aspect of humanity that ties them to our world, becoming alienated from man.
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Apr 4, 2021 23:39
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How do we know christ wasn't also resurrected by dark necromancy?
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Apr 4, 2021 23:39
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So hey, rumors coming from people close to Zack are saying that today is an excellent day to stream Zack Snyders Justice league on your streaming service. You don't have to watch it, just keep it on in the background (on loop, preferably), or if you haven't checked out Justice Is gray, tonight is an excellent opportunity! Tell your friends too!
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Apr 4, 2021 23:43
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pile of brown posted:How do we know christ wasn't also resurrected by dark necromancy? Presumably everyone was happy Jesus came back to ask "what are the ethical and psychological implications of this?"
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Apr 4, 2021 23:47
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Tell that to Legion's drowned pig hosts!
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Apr 5, 2021 00:08
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There's a lot I don't like about the epilogue but I really love Batman and Deathstroke being buds and commiserating with each other over how much the Joker sucks to hang out with E: McCloud posted:So hey, rumors coming from people close to Zack are saying that today is an excellent day to stream Zack Snyders Justice league on your streaming service. You don't have to watch it, just keep it on in the background (on loop, preferably), or if you haven't checked out Justice Is gray, tonight is an excellent opportunity! I wonder if this is any way related to the weird connection problems I've been having the last couple of hours 2house2fly fucked around with this message at 01:47 on Apr 5, 2021 |
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Apr 5, 2021 00:49
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mulling it over, the rest of the LJ can't win without superman fundamentally because they aren't fully committed on the level it takes to really work together the way they need to- basically they need to be totally ready to die for each other and that's a big ask when just gathering them in one place with one goal has been something of an epic journey. only bruce and barry have enough faith to be enthusiastic enough to at least risk it all on a bizarre play like "use the genesis weapon to ressurect which ends up being a bit of a sham because ultimately, even if we accept the impossible for the sake of faith, a miracle is still just a trick to get you to connect your emotional and ethical judgement. so they're getting the hope they should be finding in each other, and they're tricking themselves into thinking this guy gave it to them, when really he's just a bit stronger than they are and... uh really loves his girlfriend and his mom. he's still just a person. what he does give them is a second chance to pull off the plan, and even then barry needs to make his own literal miracle to make yet another second chance to make it work. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Apr 5, 2021 |
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Apr 5, 2021 01:09
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McCloud posted:So hey, rumors coming from people close to Zack are saying that today is an excellent day to stream Zack Snyders Justice league on your streaming service. You don't have to watch it, just keep it on in the background (on loop, preferably), or if you haven't checked out Justice Is gray, tonight is an excellent opportunity! lol if you weren't doing this already. ZSJLJIGE is absurdly rewatchable. FilthyImp posted:Well there's that whole Lazarus dealie where Christ is like "well yeah, let's bring him back" and everyone's kind of "uh... cool? Just don't do it too often I guess...?" The story of Lazarus Of Bethany is rather dubious, as far as these things go, and demands to be read metaphorically. Whoever wrote it is specifically making a reference back to the other Lazarus story, where God and Abraham basically refuse to raise Lazarus from the dead because it would be pandering to their audience: "if they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'" Somehow this got flipped with Lazarus Of Bethany, so that Jesus starts doing objective proof of his superpowers, precisely just to pander to his followers. The way to read this story is to look at the overall moral: "whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die". Jesus obviously isn't talking about literal immortality there, or we'd have a bunch of centuries-old Christians running around. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 02:57 on Apr 5, 2021 |
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Apr 5, 2021 02:47
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxWS1ufr5xI
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Apr 5, 2021 02:51
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I think the average Christian is decades old.
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Apr 5, 2021 02:54
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Bongo Bill posted:I think the average Christian is decades old. I meant centuries! But you can see the point: literal resurrection is, at best, just not very interesting.
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Apr 5, 2021 02:58
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Jesus obviously isn't talking about literal immortality there, or we'd have a bunch of centuries-old Christians running around. I'd say "call that an xian!" but that's really more for the Classic Martial-Arts Cinema thread.
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Apr 5, 2021 03:02
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FilthyImp posted:Well there's that whole Lazarus dealie where Christ is like "well yeah, let's bring him back" and everyone's kind of "uh... cool? Just don't do it too often I guess...?" I thought lazarus was just another resurrection guy. Does the bible explain there was no necromancy?
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Apr 5, 2021 05:16
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Rewatching the film, as per McCloud's instructions, my new favorite thing is how - since he's technically a black criminal in Gotham - Silas is perpetually concerned that he may be assaulted by Batman at any moment.
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Apr 5, 2021 06:27
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Rewatching the film, as per McCloud's instructions, my new favorite thing is how - since he's technically a black criminal in Gotham - Silas is perpetually concerned that he may be assaulted by Batman at any moment. The rooftop scene is kinda interesting because it reemphasizes what BvS was saying about the police, that they're well aware of what he's doing, they just don't care
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Apr 5, 2021 06:41
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McCloud posted:The rooftop scene is kinda interesting because it reemphasizes what BvS was saying about the police, that they're well aware of what he's doing, they just don't care
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Apr 5, 2021 06:50
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Martman posted:Even BvS gets that across a bit with the first Batman scene (although it's made slightly ambiguous as a gag) when the more experienced cop tells the rookie "don't shoot at the good guys!" Yeah there's that, the funny little newspaper comic, the indifference when Clark tries to interview them on the dude that got shanked, there's a bunch of clues that the cops got Batmans back.
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Apr 5, 2021 06:53
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Oh sorry I misread that and am a little drunk, you were definitely aware that started in BvS lol.
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Apr 5, 2021 07:00
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Rewatching the film, as per McCloud's instructions, my new favorite thing is how - since he's technically a black criminal in Gotham - Silas is perpetually concerned that he may be assaulted by Batman at any moment. i would have liked it if gordon or another member of the police, when discussing the reports of weird attacks (with the sketch of parademon-batman), said "it's gotham, this isn't even the craziest thing that's happened this year", as a much less on-the-nose version of alfred saying "exploding penguins :it is a batman forever reference:"
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Apr 5, 2021 07:31
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Ferrinus posted:Superman didn't so much "make the difference" as "win singlehandedly", just overwhelmingly crush through all opposition. SMG's right in an earlier post - the way it's shot, it looks like the brutal force of Superman's punches is widening the portal to Darkseid with each blow. Schwarzwald posted:The movie tells us that with Superman, Darkseid wins. Yeah it's hard to picture pre-death Clark succumbing to anything, even Totally Convincing Evil Math, but post-death he seems a bit more, I don't know, committed? Connected? He's got more to lose certainly, and of course we know the future . . If we line up the epilogue Knightmare with the one from Beavis, then only Batman and Flash survive Superman's arrival. RIP Meera, Deathstroke & Cyborg Maybe Joker, since setting up Bats with the green lightbulb seems like something he would do lol
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Apr 5, 2021 08:05
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The Knightmare sequences are not merely one continuity to piece together, but rather a fractured series of continuities, as each action in the present alters the future, if ever so slightly, thus each new Knightmare is a vision of a newly altered future. The future has been changed, but the apocalypse has not been averted.
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Apr 5, 2021 10:39
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I really love that the portal/boom tube at the end is just a mirror. Everybody seems a little worried about what happens next, but Superman is smirking, and Darkseid looks down on him like he knows what's coming next. This false resurrection is going to lead to catastrophe.
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Apr 5, 2021 12:55
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The United States posted:The Knightmare sequences are not merely one continuity to piece together, but rather a fractured series of continuities, as each action in the present alters the future, if ever so slightly, thus each new Knightmare is a vision of a newly altered future. The joke is that Superman had prevented the bad future (or, at least, the part where he becomes Earth dictator) by killing himself. But now it’s back on track!
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Apr 5, 2021 13:22
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These are interesting takes I hadn't considered while watching the movie. Is the implication here fueling the theme that some detractors have put forward that in Snyder's movies Superman brings an inherently negative impact on the world? In MoS he ended up leading Zod and the phantom zone criminals to Earth, his influence led to Luthor making Doomsday and now with his return he's going to succumb to the Anti-Life equation. I personally feel that the films are generally far more supportive of Superman as an inherent force for good and that Clark in particular makes it so thanks to him being a good person from his upbringing so I'm just a little intrigued at the implication that bringing back Superman is a bad thing and how that fits with Snyder's depiction of Superman in MoS and BvS.
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Apr 5, 2021 13:40
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Zod would have found Earth sooner or later regardless of Kal El. That ancient kryptonian ship was already there and the US Military had basically already found it and were going to excavate it within a few months or years. As for Doomsday I can't really hold Superman culpable for the actions of Lex Luthor. Would love to see an elseworlds movie where Kal El never arrived on Earth and Wonder Woman fights the kryptonian invasion.
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Apr 5, 2021 13:49
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I think part of the point of these movies is that there isn't any "inherent" goodness or badness, as they're primarily concerned with ideology.
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Apr 5, 2021 13:57
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AFoolAndHisMoney posted:These are interesting takes I hadn't considered while watching the movie. Can't have your hero cake without some horses dying.
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Apr 5, 2021 14:04
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That's kind of a consistent Lex Luthor idea: that having this demigod hanging out on Earth makes Earth a target for all kinds of bad news
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Apr 5, 2021 14:06
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The anti life formula is the recipe for bud light and that's why we had to kill those horses
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Apr 5, 2021 14:09
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AFoolAndHisMoney posted:that Clark in particular makes it so thanks to him being a good person from his upbringing so I'm just a little intrigued at the implication that bringing back Superman is a bad thing and how that fits with Snyder's depiction of Superman in MoS and BvS. Going along with the obvious christ allegory, I figure that it's a commentary on the mythology around Jesus' resurrection & rapture theology; he died for your sins, to set humanity back on the path of righteousness, so why are there so many interested in a second coming of Jesus, and in a rapture that sweeps up the worthy? Superman shows Batman the error of his ways, so why does he still need Superman to hang out with? What meaning would there be in the return of Jesus/Superman, showing off for the cameras and doing all his famous Jesus/Superman moves? MoS -> BvS show a clear development of his ideology and the meaning behind his actions, and he dies in service of humanity. What does the resurrected Superman abide by? He's an amnesiac who gets tamed by distant memories of Lois Lane and his family, and that's all he's tethered by, which is why he can be enslaved by the ALE and bring about a Darkseid rapture when she's gone. He stands for nothing, he can be exploited for anything.
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Apr 5, 2021 14:23
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AFoolAndHisMoney posted:These are interesting takes I hadn't considered while watching the movie. Snyder’s point is not “good versus bad”, but ethical versus unethical. Remember, back in the first two movies, Superman was struggling with his ethics. The basic point was that being in this relationship with Lois (which was itself based on his being a momma’s boy) was leading him to make potential bad choices: does he unwittingly give preferential treatment to America because Lois lives there? Does he unwittingly give preferential treatment to white people because Lois is white? Lex’s whole deal was correctly identifying and poking at those weaknesses to drive Clark crazy, but Clark ultimately resisted temptation and ‘won’ by sacrificing himself: by giving up Lois, and trusting in others to protect her. Black Suit Superman is a good guy who’s genuinely kind and helpful, but his working with ultra-capitalist Batman to start a family in Kansas is an ethical regression. Snyder’s point is that this isn’t enough. The world is literally going to erupt into war in, like, a year - and Batman’s only plan is to recruit more soldiers. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Apr 5, 2021 |
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Apr 5, 2021 14:25
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Now I'm wondering if Kara El was supposed to show up as the Antisuperman, once Superman is turned.
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Apr 5, 2021 14:37
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Resurrected clark might not be the same one that died.Being reborn in a genesis chamber through the intercession of an evil box of black magic changes everything about him.He was the only natural born kryptonian and that made him free.He is a biological slave now.
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Apr 5, 2021 14:48
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