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FlamingLiberal posted:It’s not that many episodes and I feel like we get some good character stuff out of it Rocks and Shoals is one of my all time favorite DS9 episodes; some great Jem'Hadar stuff and Kira dealing with being a collaborator is great
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Apr 5, 2021 00:00
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The_Doctor posted:Picard’s lost uniform from Generations is up for auction (Julien’s, at the end of April): To this day I do not understand what Robert Blackman was thinking with these. I'm sure they would have looked different under studio lighting and all, but the collar is distractingly silly, the way the top tucks into the pants just looks silly, the crotch seam is absurdly long and I can only imagine the cast would be wearing some gigantic-rear end boots, given where the ankle hem is.
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Apr 5, 2021 00:06
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Timby posted:To this day I do not understand what Robert Blackman was thinking with these. I'm sure they would have looked different under studio lighting and all, but the collar is distractingly silly, the way the top tucks into the pants just looks silly, the crotch seam is absurdly long and I can only imagine the cast would be wearing some gigantic-rear end boots, given where the ankle hem is. It looks like a homemade cosplay outfit. Like, go to an anime convention and you'll see exactly that kind of stuff with the too-obvious seams and bad dimensions because it's teenagers with no experience making stuff on their moms' sewing machines.
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Apr 5, 2021 00:08
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Wait, what - so in Discovery S3, the explanation for "Why not go back and stop the Burn?" is "because we made time travel illegal and destroyed all the ways of doing it"? So any new aggressor civilisation that does have time travel tech - which, let's face it, in the Trekverse is as common as boiling water tech - and doesn't give a poo poo about anyone else's laws can gently caress with the Federation on a temporal level as much as they want, and there's nothing they can do about it? Jeez, and I thought banning cloaking tech was a dumbass self-limiting move. Destroying your own time travel tech is as stupid as Brexit. "Well, Discovery's not even meant to be here. We could use one of the 153 different known time travel methods to go back and beam up the Brainscream Kid before he blows up all the dilithium, kills millions of people and cripples the Federation, then go back further and get ourselves out of the way of history?" "No! It's against the law!" "But millions of peop-" "THE LAW!"
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Apr 5, 2021 00:09
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You can make the same argument about literally any bad thing in history. The Temporal Prime Directive existed long before Discovery did, the time travel ban just makes it stick for real.
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Apr 5, 2021 00:15
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What thing in history are we talking about. Because there has never been a ban on something that’s been enforced in any realistic way.
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Apr 5, 2021 00:34
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Timby posted:To this day I do not understand what Robert Blackman was thinking with these. I'm sure they would have looked different under studio lighting and all, but the collar is distractingly silly, the way the top tucks into the pants just looks silly, the crotch seam is absurdly long and I can only imagine the cast would be wearing some gigantic-rear end boots, given where the ankle hem is.
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Apr 5, 2021 00:38
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Payndz posted:Wait, what - so in Discovery S3, the explanation for "Why not go back and stop the Burn?" is "because we made time travel illegal and destroyed all the ways of doing it"? I mean, they have had the temporal prime directive for a while. The shows have just never been super strict about enforcing it. But the long and short of it is that you don't really have a say which timeline is the "right one". Wipe out a timeline with the Burn and all the people who were born because of the unique circumstances of the post-Burn galaxy never exist, and you're killing them as surely as the people who starve to death because of the Burn.
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Apr 5, 2021 00:57
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I have seen some chatter online about how TNG was hinting at the Borg from Season 1-ish and onwards, stuff like the missing colonies and what not. I figure that they didn't think of the actual Borg until the plot required it, but were the scriptwriters really considering an overarching enemy or hivemind antagonist that early on? It seems unlikely to me since there was so much production turbulence at the start.
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Apr 5, 2021 01:46
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I think the Ferengi were supposed to be the big mysterious threat before they torpedoed that with the horrific first Ferengi episode.
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Apr 5, 2021 01:50
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HIJK posted:I have seen some chatter online about how TNG was hinting at the Borg from Season 1-ish and onwards, stuff like the missing colonies and what not. I figure that they didn't think of the actual Borg until the plot required it, but were the scriptwriters really considering an overarching enemy or hivemind antagonist that early on? It seems unlikely to me since there was so much production turbulence at the start. There was an idea of the worm aliens from Conspiracy being a long-term, overarching enemy; Maurice Hurley was pushing hard for this to happen. Then Conspiracy was actually produced and everyone realized how prohibitively expensive that would be from an effects perspective, so Hurley instead started thinking of a new, more mysterious enemy that was hinted at in The Neutral Zone; that enemy became the Borg.
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Apr 5, 2021 01:58
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Timby posted:There was an idea of the worm aliens from Conspiracy being a long-term, overarching enemy; Maurice Hurley was pushing hard for this to happen. Then Conspiracy was actually produced and everyone realized how prohibitively expensive that would be from an effects perspective, so Hurley instead started thinking of a new, more mysterious enemy that was hinted at in The Neutral Zone; that enemy became the Borg. Huh, so that's why Conspiracy never panned out. It didn't quite fit in with TNG so I can see why that didn't work. Too bad they never came back in DS9 or something. That's really cool though that they were able to imagine it that early and carried it forward, I wouldn't expect that from all the apocrypha surrounding Season 1 TNG. Mr. Prokosch posted:I think the Ferengi were supposed to be the big mysterious threat before they torpedoed that with the horrific first Ferengi episode. Lmao, I can absolutely see this. At least those first episode Ferengi made a cute callback as Quark's action figures! 
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Apr 5, 2021 02:22
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Yeah it’s 6 episodes that end with two Galaxy classes double teaming a Cardy ship WHAT MORE COULD YOU WANT?
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Apr 5, 2021 02:32
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I have a meme request pwease: an animorphs book cover with Tom Paris morphing into future human amphibian
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Apr 5, 2021 02:45
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What would have been expensive about a little worm in someone’s neck? I’m sure they didn’t all have to explode.
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Apr 5, 2021 03:01
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HIJK posted:Huh, so that's why Conspiracy never panned out. It didn't quite fit in with TNG so I can see why that didn't work. Too bad they never came back in DS9 or something. That's really cool though that they were able to imagine it that early and carried it forward, I wouldn't expect that from all the apocrypha surrounding Season 1 TNG. IIRC the DS9 books set after the series ended brought them back and made them somehow linked to the Trill.
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Apr 5, 2021 03:07
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Kibayasu posted:What would have been expensive about a little worm in someone’s neck? I’m sure they didn’t all have to explode. The opticals were pretty expensive. While Q Who? went wildly over-budget (which is why Shades of Grey was a clip show episode), at least they were able to amortize the cost of the Borg costumes and effects over several episodes, since all they had to do was put actors under white facepaint and in vacuform plastic pieces with tubing and whatever greebles they had hanging around the prop shop.
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Apr 5, 2021 04:11
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Controversial option: I think the Borg themselves have always looked goofy as gently caress, and would have been way more creepy if they were just left as this terrifying cube-hive that shouted at you and occasionally dissected your ship.
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Apr 5, 2021 04:26
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HD DAD posted:Controversial option: I think the Borg themselves have always looked goofy as gently caress, and would have been way more creepy if they were just left as this terrifying cube-hive that shouted at you and occasionally dissected your ship. And if that single giant cube was their entire species— it being the same cube that follows them back to Earth after 2 years.
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Apr 5, 2021 04:55
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Nitrousoxide posted:I mean, they have had the temporal prime directive for a while. The shows have just never been super strict about enforcing it. But the long and short of it is that you don't really have a say which timeline is the "right one". Wipe out a timeline with the Burn and all the people who were born because of the unique circumstances of the post-Burn galaxy never exist, and you're killing them as surely as the people who starve to death because of the Burn. *The Devidians start sucking out brain rays in 25th-century San Francisco* "No, stop that! We banned it! You're not playing very nice!"
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Apr 5, 2021 05:10
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HD DAD posted:Controversial option: I think the Borg themselves have always looked goofy as gently caress, and would have been way more creepy if they were just left as this terrifying cube-hive that shouted at you and occasionally dissected your ship. It seems like a fairly common opinion on the internet where a lot of people swear they love the Borg but really wish they just never showed up or did anything or had any further development. I guess they want the Borg to be more like the Romulans.
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Apr 5, 2021 05:27
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SlothfulCobra posted:It seems like a fairly common opinion on the internet where a lot of people swear they love the Borg but really wish they just never showed up or did anything or had any further development. I think those people just think that they ended up taking the Borg in a not-great direction and that they were much more effective in the first few appearances. They were very different in those first couple.
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Apr 5, 2021 05:33
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Are there mirror universe Borg
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Apr 5, 2021 07:07
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I always assumed that the mirror universe never hinted at anything after DS9 since the borg finally found the terran empire/coliltian whichever was on top last, and basically steamrolled them all.
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Apr 5, 2021 07:29
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Steamrolled them with love
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Apr 5, 2021 08:17
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42 years from today, a Vulcan scout ship lands in Bozeman, Montana after noticing a warp signature, and Dr. Zefram Cochrane regales them with doo-wop jukebox music and hard liquor. Happy First Contact Day, everybody.
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Apr 5, 2021 08:21
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Nitrousoxide posted:I mean, they have had the temporal prime directive for a while. The shows have just never been super strict about enforcing it. But the long and short of it is that you don't really have a say which timeline is the "right one". Wipe out a timeline with the Burn and all the people who were born because of the unique circumstances of the post-Burn galaxy never exist, and you're killing them as surely as the people who starve to death because of the Burn. The Burn is just a puzzle box with a really bizarre solution. "How can we set up the far future so Discovery won't be instantly merked by a 30th-century shuttlecraft? I know - warp drive has gone because a kid screamed at some dilithium crystals! Discovery's unique spore drive gives it an edge that could help restore the Federation!" [Discovery warps everywhere and is constantly placed in unnecessary danger]
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Apr 5, 2021 08:21
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Axe-man posted:I always assumed that the mirror universe never hinted at anything after DS9 since the borg finally found the terran empire/coliltian whichever was on top last, and basically steamrolled them all. other way around, the mirror Borg are nice and also the ultimate wimps
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Apr 5, 2021 08:26
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Mirror 'q' which I guess is 'p' decides to put humanity on trial for not being evil enough, but rigs the trial in their favor by flinging evil picard thousands of lightyears in an instant so he can slice up a mirror borg pleasure craft.
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Apr 5, 2021 08:27
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SlothfulCobra posted:It seems like a fairly common opinion on the internet where a lot of people swear they love the Borg but really wish they just never showed up or did anything or had any further development.  on 'em.
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Apr 5, 2021 08:33
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HD DAD posted:Controversial option: I think the Borg themselves have always looked goofy as gently caress, and would have been way more creepy if they were just left as this terrifying cube-hive that shouted at you and occasionally dissected your ship. Kinda, but having the drones just give zero poo poo about what happens around them was pretty cool. It helps hammer home the point that there are no individuals, by showing what we recognize as individual Borgs and having them act entirely like cogs in a machine. I also agree that the Borg were taken in the wrong direction, essentially making them more human with motivations and a loving queen even. Keeping them as anthropomorphized grey goo would both be way better and completely impossible to write. So basically, the Borg are better when they aren't there. I think Voyager actually did some stuff where they're in Borg space but just make a deal out of avoiding them?
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Apr 5, 2021 11:04
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CharlestheHammer posted:What thing in history are we talking about. Because there has never been a ban on something that’s been enforced in any realistic way. Any event that would make the Federation Council say "Hurm can we quickload because we didn't like that outcome." E.g., Wolf 359 or the entire Dominion War. You ban time travel because the temptation to continue to travel back in time to try to fix the situation would just end up like VOY Year of Hell where Boddiker kept trying to find the one factor that would properly reset the timeline but paradoxically every change steers you further away the timeline you're trying to get back to. At least in Yesterday's Enterprise, War Picard had the idea from Guinan that time wasn't the way it was supposed to be and that's because a temporal rift appears with the Enterprise-C. So he gambled on loving around with time and it worked out. But the idea that Discovery S3 is dumb because they didn't use time travel to prevent an event is silly because like someone said above, you could make the argument that DS9 is dumb because the Federation didn't use time travel to prevent the Dominion War. V-Men fucked around with this message at 11:22 on Apr 5, 2021 |
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Apr 5, 2021 11:19
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Time travel always ends up dumb for pretty much that reason. But I guess Doctor Who actually had a good idea with "fixed points in time" that can't be changed. Just stick the Burn, Dominion war, Wolf 359 and lizard Spot in that bucket so anything they do can't actually change poo poo.
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Apr 5, 2021 11:28
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There was also always the sense that the 24th century Federation had some basic time travel ability but didn't really know how the timestream really worked or what would happen or if changing specific things would stop them existing or branch a timeline or cause a paradox or whatever the many different outcomes that seem to be possible.
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Apr 5, 2021 11:41
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V-Men posted:Any event that would make the Federation Council say "Hurm can we quickload because we didn't like that outcome." E.g., Wolf 359 or the entire Dominion War. You ban time travel because the temptation to continue to travel back in time to try to fix the situation would just end up like VOY Year of Hell where Boddiker kept trying to find the one factor that would properly reset the timeline but paradoxically every change steers you further away the timeline you're trying to get back to. The Dominion war didn't blow up every warp ship in the entire galaxy, making the number of people interested in going back in time far greater. Also Time travel technology wasn't as widespread. Hell a simple way to make the Emerald Chain seem imposing as they were without "they win because capitalism and slave labor(in a galaxy full of mining holograms and robots) was to have them use their own questionable morals to send a warning back in time to themselves to prep for the burn.
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Apr 5, 2021 11:44
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Gonz posted:42 years from today, a Vulcan scout ship lands in Bozeman, Montana after noticing a warp signature, and Dr. Zefram Cochrane regales them with doo-wop jukebox music and hard liquor. Unless, of course, he blows them away with a shotgun. 
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Apr 5, 2021 12:04
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Or you just set extremely rigid rules for how to do the time reset. Like... If you can't figure out what caused the problem and how to solve it within a few days, there is no do over.
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Apr 5, 2021 14:02
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After the 7of9 has to help the future federation unfuck that one incident and them saying Janeway is extremely reckless with the timeline To the point it drove the guy trying to fix her poo poo insane I can see them putting up more legislation yeah.
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Apr 5, 2021 14:16
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Seeing a future that you don't want to happen and stopping it from happening is pretty much a Trek rite of passage. Admittedly, the solution usually involves you dying (Picard, Janeway, O'Brien, Jake, Molly, Seven, Harry [twice]...)
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Apr 5, 2021 14:23
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Who says the temporal police only police things going backwards? Maybe some 32nd century dude tries to mess with time to stop the Burn only to get his poo poo wrecked by 29th century timecops. Actually that's kind of a cool idea for a faction. Some remnant Iconian Timecop division that shows up randomly to gently caress with poo poo and don't care that their civilization is long dead because they're committed to policing the overall timeline.
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Apr 5, 2021 14:27
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