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Klyith posted:Not in the old one, in the new one. Ugh my eyes! All that white. For what it's worth this was the solution, it was there (Fax), uninstalled and the DebugLogFile was no longer perma locked/used by explorer, and stopped getting recreated.
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# ? Apr 6, 2021 10:54 |
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# ? Mar 28, 2024 16:37 |
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Mr Shiny Pants posted:Anyone ever having to manually add exclusions to defender? I tried to in windows 7 years ago. It really hated a linked list based sudoku solving program for one of my old classes. Not sure if it was the actual code or if it's just angry at sudoku.exe but after it kept finding it despite the exemption I just let it eat it. I still have the source code and can always compile it again (but I never will).
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# ? Apr 6, 2021 13:29 |
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Ambaire posted:I think that Windows 7 is still the gold standard for OS usability and they never should've changed what Just Worked. When they finally got they recipe almost right, they decided to throw it all out in Windows 8, and it's never been quite as consistent since.. HalloKitty fucked around with this message at 12:36 on Apr 7, 2021 |
# ? Apr 6, 2021 14:40 |
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redeyes posted:Sorry I thought it would be interesting for people in this thread. Guess not. I dunno, it's interesting to me. Just not in a way that means I want to install it. When I got to the part about Defender and updates I shifted the nature of my interest. A couple choice excerpts from the FAQ: quote:5. How do I change the username/password? At no point do they explain why they removed the GUI for changing the password. I have to assume it was built into something they deemed spyware. quote:The Deal With Updates Imagine the kind of galaxy brain that realizes disabling the capacity to auto update entails removing the ability to update manually, and forges on ahead anyway. That should have been the moment they said "oh, this is why nobody else has done what we're trying to do." I'm sympathetic to the whole endeavor. Lord knows there are parts of Windows I'd love to tear out. But there's something about the personality the personality willing to do the work that always gets hung up on weird things. I've googled for forums and such where people talk about this and replies are pretty much what you'd expect: vartious people saying "oh, that sounds nice" and then a trickle of people pointing out the flaws before the eventual consensus of "dude, either use tools to remove specific parts you don't want or just install linux." One guy posted a link to this which seems interesting and doesn't do anything too crazy from what I've seen skimming through. Blue Footed Booby fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Apr 6, 2021 |
# ? Apr 6, 2021 16:48 |
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HalloKitty posted:When the finally got they recipe almost right, they decided to throw it all out in Windows 8, and it's never been quite as consistent since.. Remember when Windows 8 didn't even have a start button, just the "move the mouse in the bottom left corner to open the fullscreen tile menu" gesture?
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# ? Apr 6, 2021 16:59 |
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I remember that every time I RDP to an 2012 server VM.
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# ? Apr 6, 2021 17:02 |
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Mr Shiny Pants posted:Anyone ever having to manually add exclusions to defender? I always exclude games and my development directories.
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# ? Apr 6, 2021 17:03 |
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Fame Douglas posted:Remember when Windows 8 didn't even have a start button, just the "move the mouse in the bottom left corner to open the fullscreen tile menu" gesture? In one of the preview versions I literally couldn't figure out how to shut down. Blue Footed Booby fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Apr 6, 2021 |
# ? Apr 6, 2021 17:12 |
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c0burn posted:I always exclude games and my development directories. I never felt the need to do it before.
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# ? Apr 6, 2021 17:27 |
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Mr Shiny Pants posted:I never felt the need to do it before. The downside of heuristic virus scanners is that they get focused on some bit of code that they can't determine whether is safe or not, and the way they analyze it is by running the instructions in a VM. It doesn't happen all the time but when it does all you can do is either tolerate the slowdown, or mark exempt if it's something like your case where you're gonna have the problem over and over. If you want to see windows defender have a panic attack, download a bunch of 4K and 64K demos from scene.org and then run a scan on them. It's amazing, you can have like 4 megs of files that defender takes literally 30 seconds to scan. (Demoscene stuff does self-modifying code a lot, which gives heuristic scanners fits.) Mr Shiny Pants posted:And scanning stuff that a signed executable is running? I thought that was the point of having signed executables. Or is this some Solarwinds stuff? Now it just scans everything because signed executables don't actually do anything anymore. Heck no, that's not what signing is for.
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# ? Apr 6, 2021 21:10 |
Blue Footed Booby posted:Imagine the kind of galaxy brain that realizes disabling the capacity to auto update entails removing the ability to update manually, and forges on ahead anyway. That should have been the moment they said "oh, this is why nobody else has done what we're trying to do." I regard this as them playing the hand MS dealt them. They make it AGGRESSIVELY difficult to take back any amount of control over updates; if just tearing the whole update system out is the minimum effort required to get it to go away and quit re-enabling itself like spyware, people who feel strongly about it will do that instead of just changing to manually approving them like we could in 7. There are definitely somewhat less nuclear ways to accomplish that than the script under discussion, but it's not surprising that it would neuter updates while it's doing other crazy surgery on OS components.
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# ? Apr 6, 2021 21:43 |
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I think Windows 10 is pretty great, OP.
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# ? Apr 6, 2021 21:48 |
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Javid posted:I regard this as them playing the hand MS dealt them. They make it AGGRESSIVELY difficult to take back any amount of control over updates; if just tearing the whole update system out is the minimum effort required to get it to go away and quit re-enabling itself like spyware, people who feel strongly about it will do that instead of just changing to manually approving them like we could in 7. But on the whole, there were more problems as an ecosystem when grognards said "I never install updates" and then told their family members to never install updates. It's a little handholdy but feels like a necessary sacrifice IMO.
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# ? Apr 6, 2021 21:57 |
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Can't you just install Enterprise (possibly even just Pro) and control updates that way? For what it's worth, I get the appeal of doing this, it's fascinating to see what happens to a piece of software (or an entire OS) when you gently caress about with it. If it's just a home machine you're experimenting with, go to town!
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# ? Apr 6, 2021 22:30 |
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Blue Footed Booby posted:I dunno, it's interesting to me. Just not in a way that means I want to install it. When I got to the part about Defender and updates I shifted the nature of my interest. Ill just throw a couple more points in. I did this to create DAW. A media center can be on anything obviously but when I have a single purpose box I want it to sit there and do nothing but what I want, no updates, no loving around, nothing. I'm sure this is heresy and I dont give one loving poo poo. The proper way to do this is not use the weird image but roll your own with their scripts. I have no idea why the instructions go into some of that stuff because most of the normal necessary controls are there including all the user account jazz in System Management.
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# ? Apr 6, 2021 23:26 |
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You'd have to use LTSB, the edition of Windows specifically designed not to receive regular updates, or run your own WSUS. Otherwise both Enterprise and Pro will eventually force you to update.
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# ? Apr 6, 2021 23:27 |
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Ghostlight posted:You'd have to use LTSB, the edition of Windows specifically designed not to receive regular updates, or run your own WSUS. Otherwise both Enterprise and Pro will eventually force you to update. LTSC receives updates just as regularly as the normal branch. They don't get the feature updates nearly as often. The LTSC system I got on a test bench at work wants its reboot every patch Tuesday. But it's still on 1809 or so. Though apparently MS is gonna push LTSC to a new version sometime this year.
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# ? Apr 6, 2021 23:36 |
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Yeah my main workstation runs 10 pro for workstations and I do control updates on it. Meaning once a year if i feel like it.
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# ? Apr 7, 2021 00:02 |
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redeyes posted:Yeah my main workstation runs 10 pro for workstations and I do control updates on it. Meaning once a year if i feel like it. Is this just for feature updates, or for security updates as well?
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# ? Apr 7, 2021 00:16 |
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Internet Explorer posted:Is this just for feature updates, or for security updates as well? Both, I dont do anything except once a year if that. I have one computer that is also a workstation that tends to be 1-2 years behind in updates as well. I know y'all think you are just going to get viruses and china will hack your underpants but its really not like that. Did anyone notice the last feature update broke printing on some enterprise printers... causing a loving blue screen? This kind of thing is a non starter for myself. I'll just wait thanks very much.
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# ? Apr 7, 2021 00:21 |
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I think that's real dumb. But hey, you're a smart guy and you're real sure of yourself.
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# ? Apr 7, 2021 00:31 |
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redeyes posted:Both, I dont do anything except once a year if that. I have one computer that is also a workstation that tends to be 1-2 years behind in updates as well. I know y'all think you are just going to get viruses and china will hack your underpants but its really not like that. Like I'm not being snarky here. You've got 2 years of potential CVEs and no real mitigation against it? It's not like the malicious actor is going to flip your monitor upside down.
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# ? Apr 7, 2021 00:37 |
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Buff Hardback posted:How do you know that china hasn't hacked your underpants? What exactly are they going to be doing? I have a real firewall and monitor it.
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# ? Apr 7, 2021 00:58 |
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redeyes posted:What exactly are they going to be doing? I have a real firewall and monitor it. Infosec is all about layers. A firewall that you expect to solve all of your problems is the exact opposite of a modern security approach.
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# ? Apr 7, 2021 01:24 |
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Internet Explorer posted:Infosec is all about layers. A firewall that you expect to solve all of your problems is the exact opposite of a modern security approach. Well, im cool with it and Im not a billion dollar enterprise. Lets keep this in perspective.
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# ? Apr 7, 2021 01:27 |
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My perspective is there's a reason Microsoft is okay with letting billion dollar enterprises manage their own updates but makes it incredibly hard for everyday users to do so, and it's not because the latter have less to lose.
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# ? Apr 7, 2021 01:34 |
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Internet Explorer posted:Infosec is all about layers. A firewall that you expect to solve all of your problems is the exact opposite of a modern security approach. Running an extra minimal number of background processes is probably better defense in depth than having two firewalls.
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# ? Apr 7, 2021 01:35 |
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redeyes posted:Well, im cool with it and Im not a billion dollar enterprise. Lets keep this in perspective. I honestly don't care what you do with your computer, I'm more weighing in for anyone reading this thread who doesn't know any better. What you're doing is dumb, and hey, that's a choice you can make for yourself. Dylan16807 posted:Running an extra minimal number of background processes is probably better defense in depth than having two firewalls. A perimeter firewall isn't the same as a client firewall, they serve different purposes unless redeyes has microsegmentation set up at home or something. And we're not talking about a minimum number of background processes. We're talking about stuff like Windows Update and Windows Firewall. Disabling that stuff on the same machine that you use to surf the internet is not a good example of "running a minimum number of background processes." If it's honestly something you want to debate, then I challenge you to bring this to the Infosec thread and see what they say. Internet Explorer fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Apr 7, 2021 |
# ? Apr 7, 2021 02:07 |
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Good luck hacking me I'm behind seven proxies.
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# ? Apr 7, 2021 02:32 |
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Holy jesus in a bowl.
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# ? Apr 7, 2021 02:33 |
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Javid posted:I regard this as them playing the hand MS dealt them. They make it AGGRESSIVELY difficult to take back any amount of control over updates; if just tearing the whole update system out is the minimum effort required to get it to go away and quit re-enabling itself like spyware Group policy editor, Windows Update, Configure Automatic Updates, Enabled. choose 2 - Notify for download or 3 - Auto download and notify for install bing bang boom, windows won't update without your permission, you can have control. I used option 3 for like a year and a half back when they didn't have a good option to prevent unauthorized reboots, and never had it reset or re-enable itself. Sometimes group policies do get reset when MS changes what the options are (or removes them from your edition), but you're manually controlling your updates, you're reading all the changelogs aren't you?
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# ? Apr 7, 2021 02:44 |
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Gonna laugh when redeyes is used as an endpoint in the next Facebook hack and he gets to sit in an FBI interrogation room and explain how they're wrong because his firewall would have alerted him. Delaying patches for a good while is dumb. Delaying patches for years puts you in a unique situation where you're the only workstation anyone can find which will fall to script kiddies using tools built on old RCEs. You think you're unimportant because you're "not a massive company" but at some point you're just the proverbial baby with the candy.
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# ? Apr 7, 2021 03:02 |
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Khablam posted:... Computer stuff in general and infosec specifically often doesn't lend itself to clean analogies. The best I can come up with is "getting hollowed up, filled with hoplites, and rolled into Troy without you noticing."
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# ? Apr 7, 2021 14:41 |
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Javid posted:I regard this as them playing the hand MS dealt them. They make it AGGRESSIVELY difficult to take back any amount of control over updates; if just tearing the whole update system out is the minimum effort required to get it to go away and quit re-enabling itself like spyware, people who feel strongly about it will do that instead of just changing to manually approving them like we could in 7. Klyith posted:Group policy editor, Windows Update, Configure Automatic Updates, Enabled. I used option 3 for a while but I sort of recently (like maybe a year ago) found a better alternative (in my opinion). Basically it simply renames the auto-reboot executable. You get all the updates, downloaded and installed automatically, with the only difference being it will never force reboot on you. Hell you even get that nice little Windows with the little red dot icon in your taskbar signaling a new update is installed and waiting for a reboot. But instead of hitting "remind me in 7 days" or whatever, you just reboot it whenever you are ready (which might even be less than 7 days). This is the guide if you are interested: https://www.joe0.com/2019/10/17/how-to-prevent-windows-10-auto-restart-new-instructions-oct-2019/ I've been using that method for over a year now and have had zero issues, it's never reverted, and I still get all my updates automatically. It just never reboots on me unless I physically click "start, reboot". Fame Douglas posted:Remember when Windows 8 didn't even have a start button, just the "move the mouse in the bottom left corner to open the fullscreen tile menu" gesture? I actually managed to never have used Windows 8 ever, like not even for a second. Not sure how I managed to avoid it (I am always helping friends and family and co-workers with their broken PCs; it's cool because people repay me in spades with stuff like car repairs and crap like that; hell one time I fixed a co-worker's computer, I refused money when he offered, then like 2 years later he ran new electrical wire around my entire house for free because he refused money back). Anyway a few months ago a neighbor's computer was crapping itself and I determined it was the hard drive. His computer was on Windows Vista so I figured while I was replacing the dead hard drive, I would install Windows 10 on it. I couldn't, because the built-in graphics card did not have Windows 10 drivers (I tried everything and could not get it out of 640x480 mode). Then I installed Windows 7 and it installed fine but I forgot Windows 7 was EoL so I upgraded it to Windows 8, which was the last version of Windows to have drivers for his graphics card. I was legitimately aghast at how bad it was. I had never used it before; only heard stories. Again, this was very recently (I wanna say May of 2020?) so it was definitely on the latest Windows 8 release. Even after installing OpenShell for him, I couldn't believe how many things were 100% full screen with no way to minimize them (that I could find). When I went to Windows Update on the computer, it literally took up the entire screen, with no minimize, maximize, or whatever the middle one is called on the top right. It was like one of those viruses that take up your whole screen in hopes of tricking people dumb enough to not know about ALT+F4. The only way I could figure out how to "minimize" the screen was win+D; I don't even think alt+tab worked. It was so incredibly jarring that I can't believe they never fixed it for whatever recent revision of Win8 I was using.
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# ? Apr 7, 2021 16:21 |
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Chumbawumba4ever97 posted:Anyway a few months ago a neighbor's computer was crapping itself and I determined it was the hard drive. His computer was on Windows Vista so I figured while I was replacing the dead hard drive, I would install Windows 10 on it. I couldn't, because the built-in graphics card did not have Windows 10 drivers (I tried everything and could not get it out of 640x480 mode). Then I installed Windows 7 and it installed fine but I forgot Windows 7 was EoL so I upgraded it to Windows 8, which was the last version of Windows to have drivers for his graphics card. You should've installed 8.1 instead. It's way better than 8. I don't recall any forced fullscreen crap in that one.
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# ? Apr 7, 2021 16:25 |
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Sininu posted:You should've installed 8.1 instead. It's way better than 8. I don't recall any forced fullscreen crap in that one. The thing that gets me is that hitting escape doesn't back you out of the start screen. It feels absolutely natural that it should and I feel trapped every time.
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# ? Apr 7, 2021 17:13 |
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Wasn't Settings still forced-fullscreen even in 8.1? I remember that being an issue for all of Windows 8. And the Start screen was always fullscreen as well. At least they added a power button with 8.1, I'm pretty sure that wasn't present in "vanilla" 8 (not just the Beta, but maybe I'm misremembering). And the Start button, of course.
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# ? Apr 7, 2021 17:22 |
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What the gently caress, exactly, does Windows 10 expect from you when you install drivers during the OS installation? I've got this HP 17CG sitting here, I'm trying to flatten and reinstall, and I can't get the installation environment to recognize the loving SSD. Take note: Windows 10 is already installed and running on this laptop, so it's not like a part is just completely busted, but once I boot from a USB drive, the SSD is nowhere to be seen. The installation media is fresh, I just downloaded it, so this is baffling me- outside of RAID setups, I thought we'd consigned this "hit f8 to install from floppy" poo poo to the XP days and that pains would have been taken such that a basic-rear end Intel part would Just Work. But whatever. I've got every driver that the manufacturer provides for this device sitting on a thumb drive, and the OS installation environment doesn't recognize any of the EXE files as relevant. On a lark, I unzipped those executables and put the contents on the drive, so that the .ini's and stuff would just be sitting on the metal. Windows sees the file structure and deems nothing else relevant. Now, look... I suspect that the immediate, problem-solving instinct for a lot of people is "Is there a very good reason for you to flatten and reinstall? Have you tried just using the nuke-everything-and-reset feature from the instance of the OS that's already working and seeing if that suits needs?" But I feel like it is a very reasonable desire to want to know, specifically, how to install this consumer operating system, from scratch, on this consumer hardware. Like, that's a extremely fair thing to be annoyed about if you can't get it done that way, right? So.... Does anyone have a clue as to what stupid thing I'm overlooking?
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# ? Apr 7, 2021 18:38 |
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Well looking here: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10 it says the latest download is the October 2020 version. It looks like your laptop was released somewhere Around September/October so the issue more than likely is that it needs an updated NVME driver that's just not included in the October 2020 version by default. I used to run into similar issues back when I was doing IT gruntwork whenever we'd get brand new machines in. So the solution would be to either track down the specific driver you need and put it in your install media or just use the built in refresh option at this point. I'd wager when the next big release happens and the download page updates then you could use that version to do a full reinstall just fine.
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# ? Apr 7, 2021 18:52 |
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# ? Mar 28, 2024 16:37 |
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been out of the loop, any issues in 20H2 i should know about out the gate?
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# ? Apr 7, 2021 18:52 |