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Tiler Kiwi posted:i know in 3k they've moved some of this stuff to happen at the end/start of each factions turn, but only when its particularly egregious; an enemy would lay siege to a settlement and your garrison would take attrition damage before you responded, but the ai armies never did. its an architectural holdover at this point; there is really no gameplay reason to not have that poo poo happen on individual faction turns other than it was maybe easier to implement at the time and now there is too much technical debt to justify the wages paid to people who would change it. Yep sounds right
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Apr 6, 2021 17:23
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I've tried TK a few times since picking up the game earlier this year and I found their campaign layer to be especially tedious, and the growth issue was a huge part of that. Shame since I really like playing them in MP
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Apr 6, 2021 17:45
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Tomb Kings have great flavor but cruising around with nothing but skeletons/archers/chariots + your starting monster for 80 turns is miserable.
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Apr 6, 2021 23:33
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Lawdog69 posted:Tomb Kings have great flavor but cruising around with nothing but skeletons/archers/chariots + your starting monster for 80 turns is miserable.
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Apr 7, 2021 00:02
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proposal: compress the army rosters into T1-3, only a handful of elite units like dragons, heavy artillery or superheavy cavalry should be T4-5 T4-5 cities should be a net drain on your economy, but that's okay because most provinces only need to be T3 and you'd only upgrade one or two cities to T5 for the elite units and landmarks buildings should provide a cool economic/recruitment/local army bonus first, and allow (overlapping) unit recruitment second also get rid of growth buildings and just have a steady static growth rate that you can increase with heroes/events/rites/sacking cities
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Apr 7, 2021 00:29
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Lt. Danger posted:proposal: compress the army rosters into T1-3, only a handful of elite units like dragons, heavy artillery or superheavy cavalry should be T4-5 AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Apr 7, 2021 |
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Apr 7, 2021 00:42
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extract wealth from the periphery for the benefit of the centre
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Apr 7, 2021 01:19
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Which factions have the strongest starts in the Vortex Lustrian thunderdome? I would assume Itza with Lord Kroak but I don't think I've ever seen his faction survive for long as the AI. Seems to usually be one of the Skaven factions along with Luthor Harkon that come out on top. Actually all of the VC factions seem to do well with the AI on Vortex. Ulthuan frequently seems to get the outer ring taken over by Noctilis or Aranessa without player intervention. I've only completed the Vortex campaign as Malekith and Alith Anar and want to check out the other factions Vortex campaigns before WH3 comes out.
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Apr 7, 2021 03:37
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Mustang posted:Which factions have the strongest starts in the Vortex Lustrian thunderdome? I would assume Itza with Lord Kroak but I don't think I've ever seen his faction survive for long as the AI. Seems to usually be one of the Skaven factions along with Luthor Harkon that come out on top. Actually all of the VC factions seem to do well with the AI on Vortex. Ulthuan frequently seems to get the outer ring taken over by Noctilis or Aranessa without player intervention. Gor rok is the strongest start if only because he gets Kroak immediately. The problem is that gorrok is kinda boring
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Apr 7, 2021 03:42
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Mustang posted:Which factions have the strongest starts in the Vortex Lustrian thunderdome? I would assume Itza with Lord Kroak but I don't think I've ever seen his faction survive for long as the AI. That's a funny thing, too, because he's INCREDIBLY hard to wipe out as an AI faction due to the unbreakable army and defensive bonuses coupled with Itza being a city with a massive garrison.
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Apr 7, 2021 04:01
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I really like playing mind games with people on ladder. Taking sub factions and then taking the opposite of what you’d expect. Or just using weird units, like ghorst with a shitload of zombies and skeletons and then triple hexwraith (nobody ever expects hexwraiths).
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Apr 7, 2021 04:44
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Lawdog69 posted:Tomb Kings have great flavor but cruising around with nothing but skeletons/archers/chariots + your starting monster for 80 turns is miserable. Followers of Nagash, bro. The dogs make a difference!!
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Apr 7, 2021 04:49
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:I really like playing mind games with people on ladder. Taking sub factions and then taking the opposite of what you’d expect. Or just using weird units, like ghorst with a shitload of zombies and skeletons and then triple hexwraith (nobody ever expects hexwraiths). Have you ever just been completely blindsided by someone taking a bunch of aspiring champions hard countering your hexwraiths?
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Apr 7, 2021 04:58
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Mustang posted:Which factions have the strongest starts in the Vortex Lustrian thunderdome? I would assume Itza with Lord Kroak but I don't think I've ever seen his faction survive for long as the AI. Seems to usually be one of the Skaven factions along with Luthor Harkon that come out on top. Actually all of the VC factions seem to do well with the AI on Vortex. Ulthuan frequently seems to get the outer ring taken over by Noctilis or Aranessa without player intervention. For Vortex as a player it's definitely going to be Gor'rok. He starts with a mind-nuke wizard who absolutely SHREDS Skaven and his starting province is very strong. In addition to this the Rite of Resilience makes your Saurus even harder to kill. I've been streaming myself playing as Gor'rok and today a full beastman stack attacked one of my small cities and assaulted it before I could get there with an actual army, and playing out the battle the Garrison Saurus just stood in place and dragged all the Ungol and Minotaurs into the dirt and beat them till they stopped moving. I also besieged Harkon's capital with Gor'rok and Kroak cleared most of the walls himself. I was constantly clicking around trying to find something for my troops to do because everything was dying so fast. Gor'rok himself isn't remotely exciting but at the same time he's also not going to do something lame like lose or die in battle, at least not until literally every single other troop on the field is dead or fled.
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Apr 7, 2021 07:20
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saurus are ridiculous
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Apr 7, 2021 08:09
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litany of gulps posted:Have you ever just been completely blindsided by someone taking a bunch of aspiring champions hard countering your hexwraiths? That one in particular hasn’t happened but I got dumpstered bad by the Eyes Of The Desert in a TK mirror today (I was using Followers of Nagash), since stalkers have magic anti large ranged attacks (and they have Stalk so I rode almost straight into them before I realized what was going on). If you take them with a Nehekara caster you can give them anti-large with djaf’s incantation of cursed blades and unexpectedly shred blood knights or whatever. Which is funny. I should try it with a light wizard using birona’s time warp next.
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Apr 7, 2021 08:33
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TheLastRoboKy posted:Gor'rok himself isn't remotely exciting but at the same time he's also not going to do something lame like lose or die in battle, at least not until literally every single other troop on the field is dead or fled. Nigh invincible foot lords are boring, but there's something very satisfying about putting one of them on an enemy wall by themselves during a siege battle and watching them blender enemy units on max fast forward. It's probably not good that you can make a regular sized single entity that tough, but I like the excessiveness of it.
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Apr 7, 2021 12:24
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Randallteal posted:Nigh invincible foot lords are boring, but there's something very satisfying about putting one of them on an enemy wall by themselves during a siege battle and watching them blender enemy units on max fast forward. It's probably not good that you can make a regular sized single entity that tough, but I like the excessiveness of it.
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Apr 7, 2021 15:52
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Randallteal posted:Nigh invincible foot lords are boring, but there's something very satisfying about putting one of them on an enemy wall by themselves during a siege battle and watching them blender enemy units on max fast forward. It's probably not good that you can make a regular sized single entity that tough, but I like the excessiveness of it. I remember on release of WH1, when Sigvald's armor was un-nerfed and regen wasn't capped. He was capable of regen-tanking an entire enemy city. Was a cool spectacle to do once, but was so boring
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Apr 7, 2021 16:22
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Kaza42 posted:I remember on release of WH1, when Sigvald's armor was un-nerfed and regen wasn't capped. He was capable of regen-tanking an entire enemy city. Was a cool spectacle to do once, but was so boring this sounds like just about the only use case for the one-hour battle time limit
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Apr 7, 2021 16:53
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There was a lot less anti-single entity in the first game, so basically any vampire or especially Vlad could just take on the empire all by themselves with infinite regen and impossibly high stats to deal with. Single entity's are in a weird place in this game, either they are impossible to hurt and slowly grind through your army or you have the right army composition and focus fire the entity and it dies in under 10 seconds.
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Apr 7, 2021 17:21
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:There was a lot less anti-single entity in the first game, so basically any vampire or especially Vlad could just take on the empire all by themselves with infinite regen and impossibly high stats to deal with. *laughs in staggered handgunner*
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Apr 7, 2021 17:35
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Ungrim and Sigvald were also both very fun for "One guy vs army" shenanigans. Less so in WH2 but I remember in WH1 for whatever reason those guys could clown on entire armies by themselves.
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Apr 7, 2021 17:49
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I'll be a bit disappointed with TW3 if it ends up just being TW2 with a few new factions, a new map and some minor siege changes, I think most of us are hoping for a big overhaul that brings in all the improvements that worked from their recent games like Troy and Three Kingdoms and makes the campaign layer better.
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Apr 7, 2021 17:59
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:I'll be a bit disappointed with TW3 if it ends up just being TW2 with a few new factions, a new map and some minor siege changes, I think most of us are hoping for a big overhaul that brings in all the improvements that worked from their recent games like Troy and Three Kingdoms and makes the campaign layer better. TW2 was a pretty decent step up from 1, and they've had 3 in the oven for quite a while now. I'd be pretty surprised if it's just putting in the last armies and calling it a day
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Apr 7, 2021 18:02
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As long as they include the direct quantification of diplomatic deal modifiers that's in both Troy and 3 Kingdoms, that will be a big QoL improvement by itself. So much nicer to be able to see the numbers underlying the system rather than just spamming trade agreements every turn until the dwarves that have +150 opinion of you finally accept for some reason.
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Apr 7, 2021 18:07
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terrorist ambulance posted:TW2 was a pretty decent step up from 1, and they've had 3 in the oven for quite a while now. I'd be pretty surprised if it's just putting in the last armies and calling it a day Yeah but look at how changing the way climate works hosed over multiple races, and how the old races generally needed multiple years to(sometimes not) even really get up to the standards of the new ones. With even more content out there that would have to be balanced for whatever new standard they set in 3, I'm really not expecting any dramatic shifts this late in the trilogy. If they nibble around the edges in ways that don't make old content obsolete like making diplomacy smoother, or siege battles more fun, that would be cool though.
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Apr 7, 2021 18:10
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:I'll be a bit disappointed with TW3 if it ends up just being TW2 with a few new factions, a new map and some minor siege changes, I think most of us are hoping for a big overhaul that brings in all the improvements that worked from their recent games like Troy and Three Kingdoms and makes the campaign layer better. The great thing about TW3 is that "TW2 but with more stuff" is the floor for the game. Even if that's all they did it would still be pretty good. I personally doubt that they leave it at that, TW:WH has become their flagship series and a magnum opus of sorts. CA has spent a ton of time and effort polishing TW2, I can't imagine they won't be heavily iterating for TW3.
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Apr 7, 2021 18:14
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orangelex44 posted:The great thing about TW3 is that "TW2 but with more stuff" is the floor for the game. Even if that's all they did it would still be pretty good. Yeah, I feel this. Maybe there's some protecting myself from disappointment going on with my expectation that this is pretty close to what we'll get, idk. Obviously any improvements they do make will be welcome, but even more of the same but with new races and a new campaign is pretty good since the various races are a huge part of the draw for this trilogy.
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Apr 7, 2021 18:20
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Sinteres posted:Yeah but look at how changing the way climate works hosed over multiple races, and how the old races generally needed multiple years to(sometimes not) even really get up to the standards of the new ones. With even more content out there that would have to be balanced for whatever new standard they set in 3, I'm really not expecting any dramatic shifts this late in the trilogy. If they nibble around the edges in ways that don't make old content obsolete like making diplomacy smoother, or siege battles more fun, that would be cool though. I mean, who fuckin knows. They've been developing under COVID for a year which I'm sure doesn't help, and AAA video games seem to be in a bit of a slump just now. Recall though that TW was released 5 years ago, and base TWW2 was released in 2017. If they hit the release date of "late 2021" they'll have had 4 years to work on this. If all that gets added is chaos, ogres, kislev, cathay, w/ all that time I'd be a bit surprised, but maybe not Diplomacy and siege battle changes, as well as introducing better battle maps, seem like obvious and fairly straightforward improvements. Going back to the TWW2 battle maps after Three Kingdoms is like getting back on a moped after riding a sport bike
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Apr 7, 2021 19:08
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:There was a lot less anti-single entity in the first game, so basically any vampire or especially Vlad could just take on the empire all by themselves with infinite regen and impossibly high stats to deal with. I'll never forget wiping out Mannfred's army with trivial ease shortly after TWW1's release, then proceeding to watch him slowly kill every single one of my Dwarfs with his infinite regen cap. All of my Quarrelers unloaded every single bolt they had into his rear end while I kited him around, to no avail. Absolutely unstoppable. 
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Apr 7, 2021 19:14
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terrorist ambulance posted:*laughs in staggered handgunner* 
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Apr 7, 2021 19:21
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Yeah my only worry with warhammer 3 is that theres enough content already there that the stuff they might try to differentiate factions ends up being awful or gets too absurd power creep wise. Like if they add a duelist, theres already lots of duelists so the easiest thing to do to make them stand out is just make them a duelier duelist than any other. But then that makes a new bar for any other duelists even higher. Or stuff like how Groms gobbos are for the most part just better than Skarsniks gobbos, that sort of thing And then of course the factions themselves. Like Chaos Dwarves will probably have some sort of system dealing with their reliance on green skin slave labor, and its possible they could whiff it. I'm still pretty confident though, they've been adding mechanics to three kingdoms as time has gone on and while they've gotten fiddlier they're usually pretty good and none of them has outright sucked yet. And that's a game with more in depth faction mechanics to begin with so Warhams 3 has a lower floor to play with
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Apr 7, 2021 19:26
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They kinda ran into that with the WH1 races versus the WH2 races, but the end result was that CA ended up reworking most of the original races to the higher standard. There's no reason to think that wouldn't happen again in WH3 (although it's still dumb that the WH1 races don't have rites).
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Apr 7, 2021 19:31
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Sinteres posted:Yeah but look at how changing the way climate works hosed over multiple races, and how the old races generally needed multiple years to(sometimes not) even really get up to the standards of the new ones. With even more content out there that would have to be balanced for whatever new standard they set in 3, I'm really not expecting any dramatic shifts this late in the trilogy. If they nibble around the edges in ways that don't make old content obsolete like making diplomacy smoother, or siege battles more fun, that would be cool though.
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Apr 7, 2021 20:11
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3K's UI makes the game unplayable for me.
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Apr 7, 2021 20:20
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terrorist ambulance posted:I mean, who fuckin knows. They've been developing under COVID for a year which I'm sure doesn't help, and AAA video games seem to be in a bit of a slump just now. Recall though that TW was released 5 years ago, and base TWW2 was released in 2017. If they hit the release date of "late 2021" they'll have had 4 years to work on this. If all that gets added is chaos, ogres, kislev, cathay, w/ all that time I'd be a bit surprised, but maybe not It's worth noting that they've put out three other games since Warhammer 2, and a shitload of DLC, so while 3 has had a lot of dev time, I don't think it's quite as dramatic as that makes it sound. Like we know they had parallel teams working on some of these things, but Three Kingdoms had two delays (obviously pre-Covid), which made it seem like the whole parallel teams thing wasn't working quite as smoothly as they'd hoped. AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Except if they dont have 3K quality diplomacy and sieges I'm not buying the game. I imagine I'm in the minority though. I.... I just cant play Warhammer II anymore after playing 3K. Its so dated and in many regards, like how terrorist ambulance brought up battle maps, outright bad. 3K still has some dumb 90% forested maps but thats a minor gripe compared to some of the crap in WH2. Everything about 3K other than faction unit variety is vastly better and I dont think I'm willing to shell out $60 for a step back in basic game tools and functionality. Honestly I feel like Warhammer fatigue makes total sense even aside from having to compete with improvements from other Total War titles, so I don't think you'll be the only one sitting out if that's the way it goes. If they don't make significant improvements to differentiate the two, I think they'll still get plenty of sales, but I could see it hurting the long tail of DLC sales if people who've already been buying DLC for 2 for four years by then decide they've had enough. I do hope there will be some quality of life changes, I just think there's probably a limit to how much they'll want to re-invent the wheel this late in the series. Either way, I'm looking forward to hearing more next month so we have more than speculation to go off here.
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Apr 7, 2021 20:26
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Except if they dont have 3K quality diplomacy and sieges I'm not buying the game. I imagine I'm in the minority though. I.... I just cant play Warhammer II anymore after playing 3K. Its so dated and in many regards, like how terrorist ambulance brought up battle maps, outright bad. 3K still has some dumb 90% forested maps but thats a minor gripe compared to some of the crap in WH2. Everything about 3K other than faction unit variety is vastly better and I dont think I'm willing to shell out $60 for a step back in basic game tools and functionality. I am in the other camp, I can't loving stand 3ks research, armies and recruitment system, buildings and corruption system. I really hope that poo poo stays in 3k and don't spill over to warhams. Just let me decide how many characters I have in my armies tyvm.
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Apr 7, 2021 20:32
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Sinteres posted:
Sinteres posted:Honestly I feel like Warhammer fatigue makes total sense even aside from having to compete with improvements from other Total War titles, so I don't think you'll be the only one sitting out if that's the way it goes. If they don't make significant improvements to differentiate the two, I think they'll still get plenty of sales, but I could see it hurting the long tail of DLC sales if people who've already been buying DLC for 2 for four years by then decide they've had enough. I do hope there will be some quality of life changes, I just think there's probably a limit to how much they'll want to re-invent the wheel this late in the series. Either way, I'm looking forward to hearing more next month so we have more than speculation to go off here. edit: Circling back to my reply to your reply to TA, I think they probably decided to internally delay WH3 and thus push out even announcing it when covid happened, since WH2 DLC sales were strong and 2020 became a huge unknown. I work in software dev (though not high end gaming) and ALL of the coders I know love WFH because there are so many fewer distractions and pointless meetings than when you are in the office, so maybe they will have lots of optimizations and poo poo in. Who knows and I agree - I cant wait to hear more news. AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Apr 7, 2021 |
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Apr 7, 2021 20:41
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its worth noting that the factions they have left are much more work to create also. the demons are all pretty extravagant, and theyre gonna have to do a lot of their own design work for the kislev and cathay rosters, unless theyre working super closely with GW on some totally un-hinted-at cathay faction
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