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khwarezm posted:I think this is sort of silly and reductive honestly? From what I gather about Snyder he's fairly mum when it comes to being explicit about his political views but he's consistently expressed interest in adapting Ayn Rand and describes her in ways like this: Again, it's taking this more nuanced quote and his interest in adapting one of Rand's books and making the leap to "openly an Ayn Randian libertarian [who] believes whole-heartedly in her philosophy". I think judging a YouTube channel called "Just Write" on their word choice is fair game, especially when they are trying to establish a very deliberate narrative.
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Apr 7, 2021 21:17
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khwarezm posted:I don't think I'm having to read between the lines that he seems to have a kind of tempered respect for her at worst, certainly he seems to know a lot about her and agrees with her on some of the stuff he brings up, and seems to have much more time for her than Trump or Reagan. Objectivists, much like card-carrying libertarians, do not tend to be subtle or reserved about their political philosophy - the work of Steve Ditko, the creator of Spiderman, is a relevant example. It doesn't really sound like you know all that much about what objectivism is other than that Ayn Rand invented it and it's Bad - but, well, nor do this endless succession of youtubers eager to explain how it's encoded into tiny moments of major blockbusters with such deft art that it requires a teacher to see it clearly.
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Apr 7, 2021 21:18
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Why not just take Snyder to task for personally being a pro-capitalism liberal like just about every other famous Hollywood personality? Why invent the salacious extra detail?
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Apr 7, 2021 21:18
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Working against making a Fountainhead movie here is that (A) Ayn Rand is seen as a conservative archdemon (B) The only people getting Ayn Rand movies made are the same types making direct-to-video Christian end times movies (C) Zack will not be forgiven for 300 in particular
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Apr 7, 2021 21:18
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khwarezm posted:
My point being the extremity in which people frame Snyders political opinions is absurd in the face of the obvious fact the dude is classic rich white Hollywood liberal. Youd think the guy was tweeting "Dont Tread On Me" flags constantly by the way hes talked about.
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Apr 7, 2021 21:20
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khwarezm posted:I think this is sort of silly and reductive honestly? From what I gather about Snyder he's fairly mum when it comes to being explicit about his political views but he's consistently expressed interest in adapting Ayn Rand and describes her in ways like this: If someone opens up with "We all know he's an objectivist", that's a lie, and a baldfaced one at that, singularly based on him wanting to adapt the fountainhead, a book about artists not wanting their art messed with (gee, wonder why that might appeal to a director who constantly has seen his films changed, for the worse). It's doubly stupid because his superhero films are all about how working together with others makes us stronger. This is literally the thesis of Justice League, but also apparent in MoS and BvS.
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Apr 7, 2021 21:20
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I took a few philosophy classes in college and I remember when it came to objectivism the professor made sure to spend extra long going through why it barely even qualifies as a "philosophy" and detailing why every aspect of it is intellectually bankrupt dogshit for morons He was a p good professor
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Apr 7, 2021 21:21
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josh04 posted:Objectivists, much like card-carrying libertarians, do not tend to be subtle or reserved about their political philosophy - the work of Steve Ditko, the creator of Spiderman, is a relevant example. It doesn't really sound like you know all that much about what objectivism is other than that Ayn Rand invented it and it's Bad - but, well, nor do this endless succession of youtubers eager to explain how it's encoded into tiny moments of major blockbusters with such deft art that it requires a teacher to see it clearly. I guess I'll ask you too, what do you think of Snyder's comments regarding Rand and his continued interest in adapting her work? Is he doing some kind of undercover operation here?
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Apr 7, 2021 21:21
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The fact that Snyder hasn’t made a movie trying to denounce the concept of AoC is conclusive proof that he’s not a libertarian.
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Apr 7, 2021 21:22
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khwarezm posted:Well... those days are over. lmao khwarezm posted:I guess I'll ask you too, what do you think of Snyder's comments regarding Rand and his continued interest in adapting her work? Is he doing some kind of undercover operation here? No, how about you answer what it is about Zacks work that you think indicates a randian philosophy?
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Apr 7, 2021 21:23
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khwarezm posted:I think this is sort of silly and reductive honestly? From what I gather about Snyder he's fairly mum when it comes to being explicit about his political views but he's consistently expressed interest in adapting Ayn Rand and describes her in ways like this: Depiction is not endorsement
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Apr 7, 2021 21:23
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khwarezm posted:I guess I'll ask you too, what do you think of Snyder's comments regarding Rand and his continued interest in adapting her work? Is he doing some kind of undercover operation here? No he wants to adapt the book into a movie. This isn't the same as him "openly" admitting his politics or philosophy. The YouTuber is either 1) making a very, very poorly researched statement which undermines a lot of his points OR 2) deliberately lying to make his point easier to swallow. Either way it's a rough look.
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Apr 7, 2021 21:24
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“People will think it’s hardcore right-wing propaganda” implies he knows how what he wants to do will look, even if he doesn't see it like that Like the inverse of that Wow Cool Robot meme lol
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Apr 7, 2021 21:27
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RBA Starblade posted:“People will think it’s hardcore right-wing propaganda” implies he knows how what he wants to do will look, even if he doesn't see it like that I mean, all it really implies is that he has read any article about this ever posted since he first expressed interest in the adaptation
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Apr 7, 2021 21:29
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Guy A. Person posted:No he wants to adapt the book into a movie. This isn't the same as him "openly" admitting his politics or philosophy. The YouTuber is either 1) making a very, very poorly researched statement which undermines a lot of his points OR 2) deliberately lying to make his point easier to swallow. Either way it's a rough look. I kind of just compartmentalize it as the youtuber jumping the gun too much when Snyder is less explicit about his politics than he's given him credit. I don't see it as good enough reason to write him off entirely when I think its a position that can be supported by Snyders own comments on and fairly evident interest in Rand and her work. Again, I'm not saying I 100% agree with him on this, but I don't think he's lying as bluntly as people are suggesting, and I don't think it torpedoes his perspective and interpretation of the film.
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Apr 7, 2021 21:29
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Zack Snyder has done more for leftism than any boring YouTuber.
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Apr 7, 2021 21:29
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khwarezm posted:I certainly wouldn't call him openly an Ayn Randian libertarian Anyway, shortly after that bit where he lies, he claims that Dawn Of The Dead promotes a fundamentalist Christian worldview where the apocalypse is caused by homosexuality and abortion. I hate zombie stuff so I only ever saw that film when it came out (as a double feature with Shaun Of The Dead) and my memories of it are so dim that I am not 100% confident when I say that is ridiculous, the film does not promote that worldview at all. Someone who likes zombie stuff more than me will have to address that further. Back to his Justice League commentary: A reference to Chernobyl does not an anticommunist narrative make. There are other ideologies concerned with unity, such as: fascism. Previous Snyder movies have expressed anxieties about fascism, particularly Owls Of Gahoole and Man Of Steel. The good guys refer to being united all the time in dialogue, and of course they act together throughout the finale- the message is that unity is good, and the Unity of the mother boxes is not unity. This is also demonstrated in the movie, when Victor sees a vision of himself restored to his human body by the mother boxes as a mindless clone. 2house2fly fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Apr 7, 2021 |
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Apr 7, 2021 21:31
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khwarezm posted:Again, I'm not saying I 100% agree with him on this, but I don't think he's lying as bluntly as people are suggesting, and I don't think it torpedoes his perspective and interpretation of the film. You're wrong, because it absolutely does lol.
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Apr 7, 2021 21:31
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RBA Starblade posted:I took a few philosophy classes in college and I remember when it came to objectivism the professor made sure to spend extra long going through why it barely even qualifies as a "philosophy" and detailing why every aspect of it is intellectually bankrupt dogshit for morons Yeah it's stupid as all hell, has no real philosophical relevance and will mainly be remembered as the weird cult that shaped Alan Greenspan's views before he became Chair of the Federal Reserve. khwarezm posted:I guess I'll ask you too, what do you think of Snyder's comments regarding Rand and his continued interest in adapting her work? Is he doing some kind of undercover operation here? He likes the book and doesn't exist in a circle of people where that opinion is read as signalling your right-wing credentials. I think Mishima wrote beautiful books and in an alternate reality where I was a film producer I'd love to adapt them, but that doesn't make me a post-war Japanese fascist.
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Apr 7, 2021 21:32
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RBA Starblade posted:“People will think it’s hardcore right-wing propaganda” implies he knows how what he wants to do will look, even if he doesn't see it like that I know Libertarians personally who don't think of themselves as Right wing. I don't think they are correct, but I don't think they are being insincere about what they believe, mostly because they tend to perceive left/right being primarily about stances on various social issues.
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Apr 7, 2021 21:32
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Let’s cut to the chase: I am avowed communist and I love The Fountainhead because it’s a very fascinating story. I would absolutely jump at the chance to work on an adaptation. Do you believe that the above statement, which I fully stand by, is part of a conspiracy against you?
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Apr 7, 2021 21:32
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McCloud posted:How about you answer what it is about Zacks work that you think indicates a randian philosophy?
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Apr 7, 2021 21:33
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khwarezm posted:I kind of just compartmentalize it as the youtuber jumping the gun too much when Snyder is less explicit about his politics than he's given him credit. I don't see it as good enough reason to write him off entirely when I think its a position that can be supported by Snyders own comments on and fairly evident interest in Rand and her work. So then, again, you think it's not fair to judge a YouTuber with the handle "Just Write" on their very specific word usage? It's not like there's a hard limit on YouTube upload sizes, we've talked here about multi-hour epic critiques, they could have easily explained even briefly their methodology when making that statement, or they could have phrased it in a more open ended (and honest) way. I do agree the "they are just lying" is only one possibility, but the other possibilities here aren't very flattering either.
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Apr 7, 2021 21:37
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josh04 posted:He likes the book and doesn't exist in a circle of people where that opinion is read as signalling your right-wing credentials. I think Mishima wrote beautiful books and in an alternate reality where I was a film producer I'd love to adapt them, but that doesn't make me a post-war Japanese fascist. And maybe that's what Snyder intends to do but I really have not seen anything concrete to suggest that he's going to make a movie to pull apart her world view when it comes to his comments on her and her work.
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Apr 7, 2021 21:37
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khwarezm posted:I know Libertarians personally who don't think of themselves as Right wing. I don't think they are correct, but I don't think they are being insincere about what they believe, mostly because they tend to perceive left/right being primarily about stances on various social issues. Libertarians are the middle of the Venn diagram between people who don't know anything about politics, people who think they know everything about politics, and people who can't shut up about it.
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Apr 7, 2021 21:39
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Guy A. Person posted:So then, again, you think it's not fair to judge a YouTuber with the handle "Just Write" on their very specific word usage? Its fair to judge, its more I don't think its worth throwing the baby out with the bathwater, that's why I said this is reductionist, there's lots of reviews and other such things I've read in my time where I can point to some obvious errors and statements I wouldn't agree with, but which nonetheless make some points and observations I like and think were insightful.
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Apr 7, 2021 21:39
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The Fountainhead is cool but also exactly twice as long as it needed to be. Just a completely redundant second half that goes over the same journey again, or at least that's what I remember.
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Apr 7, 2021 21:40
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The Snyder=Objectivist thing can be tested very easily. About 100% of the evidence comes from the fact he wants to make a Fountainhead movie. Following this logic, expressing interest in making a Fountainhead movie makes you an objectivist. Oliver Stone has previously tried to make a Fountainhead movie. So therefore, Oliver Stone must be an objectivist right? But of course he isn't, are you familiar with the mans views at all? However if you want to talk about objectivist thought in modern movies, are you at all familiar with the character of Tony Stark?
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Apr 7, 2021 21:40
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Ayn Rand has done more for leftism than any boring YouTuber
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Apr 7, 2021 21:41
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garycoleisgod posted:The Snyder=Objectivist thing can be tested very easily. About 100% of the evidence comes from the fact he wants to make a Fountainhead movie. What did Stone say about Rand? And how does it compare to what Snyder has said about her?
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Apr 7, 2021 21:44
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Yo, I'ma just answer questions with questions.
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Apr 7, 2021 21:46
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teagone posted:Yo, I'ma just answer questions with questions. Can't I?
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Apr 7, 2021 21:47
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Ayn Rand is funny because if you know anything about Marxism you can very clearly see that she was straight-up, consciously, doing a find-replace on existing communist philosophy in an attempt to really stick it to 'em. "A=A" and "contradictions to not exist" are both attempts to refute dialectical materialism, which of course holds that there are no static ideals but only processes of constant transformation, and that all such processes of transformation are driven by the resolution of internal and external contradictions. Rand holds that we live in a completely material universe that can be empirically studied by the senses and which operates according to discoverable physical laws, that human labor and invention are the source of value, and that the human population is divided into those who generate value by doing gainful work and those who parasitically appropriate that value using trickery and coercion. There's just the small issue of which side of that divide you and your boss each happen to fall on.
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Apr 7, 2021 21:47
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khwarezm posted:Its fair to judge, its more I don't think its worth throwing the baby out with the bathwater, that's why I said this is reductionist, there's lots of reviews and other such things I've read in my time where I can point to some obvious errors and statements I wouldn't agree with, but which nonetheless make some points and observations I like and think were insightful. Not an unfair point, I absolutely admit that turning off the video when I did -- based on my judgement of where I believed it was going -- could rob me of potential insight. But then when I see another poster who did watch the video make this statement: 2house2fly posted:Anyway, shortly after that bit where he lies, he claims that Dawn Of The Dead promotes a fundamentalist Christian worldview where the apocalypse is caused by homosexuality and abortion. I hate zombie stuff so I only ever saw that film when it came out (as a double feature with Shaun Of The Dead) and my memories of it are so dim that I am not 100% confident when I say that is ridiculous, the film does not promote that worldview at all. I'm pretty sure that I made the right call. The idea that Snyder's Dawn of the Dead blamed homosexuality and abortion for zombies (because it features a cartoonish fundamentalist preacher saying those things) was famously argued by Maggie Mae Fish, who is the featured comment on this video (and seemingly promoted by the author, I don't know how that works tho lol). Needless to say it's another pretty flimsy argument IMO.
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Apr 7, 2021 21:47
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2house2fly posted:...he claims that Dawn Of The Dead promotes a fundamentalist Christian worldview where the apocalypse is caused by homosexuality and abortion. Oh, yeah! It does claim that. Because Objectivism and fundamentalist Christianity definitely intersect. The Randian sense that Will and Ego are humanity's greatest strength meshes nicely with a belief system where rich people only became so because God rewarded them for their piety.
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Apr 7, 2021 21:47
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khwarezm posted:Frankly, I think that's apples and oranges because I can see Mishima's value as a writer even if you somehow manage to disentangle his political stances from his talent and Ayn Rand in comparison has little to offer when it comes to her actual craft. I think you really need a pretty deep interest in her ideology for her works to be worthwhile to consume, even if its just to debunk. The ability to adapt something without endorsing it can't depend on the quality of the work and it can't depend on the quality of the artist - it's either a universal possibility or it isn't. What you can look at is Snyder's actions, which certainly haven't followed the objectist creed; while he flirts with the idea, he didn't attempt to burn down Justice League when it was taken off him and he was still taking studio notes when they gave it back to him. If he's an objectivist he's an extremely compromised one! Roth posted:Ayn Rand has done more for leftism than any boring YouTuber 
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Apr 7, 2021 21:47
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khwarezm posted:Can't I? Absolutely.
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Apr 7, 2021 21:48
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Roth posted:Ayn Rand has done more for leftism than any boring YouTuber lol
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Apr 7, 2021 21:52
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Atlas Shrugged is one of Stacey Abrams favorite books
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Apr 7, 2021 21:53
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John Wick of Dogs posted:Atlas Shrugged is one of Stacey Abrams favorite books Stacey Abrams is CANCELED
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Apr 7, 2021 21:54
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