(Thread IKs:
Nuns with Guns)
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Yardbomb posted:All you need to do to sum up his ideology is rip a big fart really. Or just make him into Red Skull and don't change a word he says.
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Apr 10, 2021 03:42
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stillvisions posted:I think that's the eternal problem with mysteries - the deeper the mystery hole the writers put the show in, the harder it is to climb out. If you write a mystery without knowing the solution first you are a clown IMO.
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Apr 10, 2021 03:55
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Nuebot posted:Well it turns out every thing was caused by a bug that farts out turns into titan gas and it attached its self to a little slave girl who was going to be executed by her master after being accused of letting some pigs die or some poo poo. This is important because the when she turned into a titan, her master was like "good job girl, you will bear my children" and so he raped her and then made her kids eat her corpse when she died. But you see, it's okay because she loved him all along. And that's why when they cut off Eren's head after he killed 80% of humanity a giant bug pops out and farts turns into titan gas on everyone. But it just kind of vanishes between pages and everyone stops being a titan after Armin thanks him for committing mass murder and Miasa makes out with his severed head for a bit because he was really worried that she'd find another dude and be happy. Man went full incel and became a bird. Then everyone just kind of signed up to become an authoritarian military state to deal with the remaining 20% of humanity that wasn't them I guess. I'm half-wondering if the anime team decided to wait and see how the manga ending played out so they'd have a chance to fix it/write their own if need be.
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Apr 10, 2021 04:33
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Droyer posted:If you write a mystery without knowing the solution first you are a clown IMO.
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Apr 10, 2021 04:34
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Wait I'm confused, are people talking about the ending of AoT the manga or AoT the anime? I thought the manga wrapped up years ago?
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Apr 10, 2021 04:45
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nah, the manga only wrapped up as of right now.
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Apr 10, 2021 04:47
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ButterSkeleton posted:I think the series deserves more credit and nuanced discussion. I think it utilizes a lot of mature themes for a largely shonen series and tries some pretty interesting things. To me, it's not fair to reduce it to a "lolz rape and fascism" comparison without giving it some proper context, even if the ending falls flat. I agree, personally... but I think that ending is gonna put off that nuanced discussion for another decade.
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Apr 10, 2021 04:49
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Droyer posted:If you write a mystery without knowing the solution first you are a clown IMO. 
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Apr 10, 2021 04:54
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Motto posted:nah, the manga only wrapped up as of right now. oooof. In that case maybe we'll get a reverse original FMA anime situation where that ending is better than the manga?
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Apr 10, 2021 04:57
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Ho-lee poo poo, that ending to AoT is dire.  Honestly, there’s something to be said for avoiding long-running projects like a decade-long manga. Come up with a core story and argument, compress it down, tell it, and wrap it the gently caress up! Don’t let things wither away from old age and end with a shart instead of a bang! Just don’t!!!
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Apr 10, 2021 05:06
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Sydin posted:Pretty much. The early arcs did a good job building up Ichigo as an agent of change opposed to Soul Society, and introducing him to various people (Kukaku, Urahara, Yoruichi, etc) who were idealists who broke away from SS because they didn't agree with their authoritarian stand. It really felt like it was setting up Ichigo as somebody who would change - or at a minimum operate outside of - the status quo. Apparently Tite Kubo ahd the worst editor of all time or something.
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Apr 10, 2021 05:18
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Farg posted:the main difference i'd put forward is that got was sucking the big one for a few seasons at that point but AoT seems to have truly poo poo the bed at the last possible moment There's like half a dozen moments in the final chapter alone that retcon crucial and pivotal moments in the story and entire character arcs and also literally invalidates the main character's initial motivation. This was series suicide-by-author. I really want to know what went on behind the scenes for the last year or so of the series's production.
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Apr 10, 2021 05:21
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Attack on Reader
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Apr 10, 2021 05:32
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stillvisions posted:I think that's the eternal problem with mysteries - the deeper the mystery hole the writers put the show in, the harder it is to climb out. And the one and only time he was called upon to finally put up or shut up and deliver some answers and end the story he started telling himself, his response was to kick over the table and throw a bunch of firecrackers in the audience's face and then make a run for the nearest exit before anyone knew he was gone.
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Apr 10, 2021 06:05
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stillvisions posted:I think that's the eternal problem with mysteries - the deeper the mystery hole the writers put the show in, the harder it is to climb out. Lost was partially a victim of the writers falling in love with complex world-building, and not just the desire to keep throwing out wild toppers every season, although they loved that too. Stories have a shape where they spend some time throwing in more elements and characters and becoming more complex, but in order to end, they have to reverse that at some point and become simpler as elements are resolved. I think Lost loved poo poo like the Dharma Initiative and had fun realizing that stuff and all its implications, leading them to coming up with more wild poo poo, to the point where it was too late to start moving toward an end in a way that felt connected to what had come before. Game of Thrones is kind of like this too--great first half as everything is unspooling, but then when it's time to move the characters into position for a satisfying end, it's not done anywhere near as well as the descent into chaos and disorder that characterizes the first half.
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Apr 10, 2021 06:20
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It’s like the world’s fanciest Rube Goldberg machine that kicks you in the dick at the end.
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Apr 10, 2021 06:23
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Jamie Faith posted:Alltho I am still a bit of a Bleach apologist and I have naive hope that the new anime episodes fix alot of the shows major issues lol so I'm in no room to I have the first 50 volumes of the bleach manga  Jamie Faith posted:It's all style and no substance but godamn that style is  Zetsubou-san fucked around with this message at 06:47 on Apr 10, 2021 |
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Apr 10, 2021 06:43
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Pollyanna posted:Honestly, there’s something to be said for avoiding long-running projects like a decade-long manga. Come up with a core story and argument, compress it down, tell it, and wrap it the gently caress up! Don’t let things wither away from old age and end with a shart instead of a bang! Just don’t!!!
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Apr 10, 2021 06:58
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Zetsubou-san posted:I have the first 50 volumes of the bleach manga  Volumes 1 thru 48 are sitting at the top of my manga shelf lol
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Apr 10, 2021 07:03
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like the manga that had a machine where a man was fed his own poo poo for the rest of eternity in like chapter, 30? turning out to have a bad ending thats trying too hard without actually committing to anything, isnt really surprising. it's not something forced on it because it ran for 10 years, its something forced on it because the writing was always bad, it just had more verv and possibilities at the start.
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Apr 10, 2021 07:03
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Droyer posted:If you write a mystery without knowing the solution first you are a clown IMO.
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Apr 10, 2021 07:12
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Arcsquad12 posted:I really hope Konosuba doesn't get lovely, I've just started it. Konosuba never gets worse than the fanservice and Kazuma being a pervert (which most of the rest of the cast make fun of him for.)
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Apr 10, 2021 07:14
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Mokinokaro posted:Konosuba never gets worse than the fanservice and Kazuma being a pervert (which most of the rest of the cast make fun of him for.) So your usual stuff, then. It's dumb as poo poo but it has good slapstick timing.
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Apr 10, 2021 07:40
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stillvisions posted:I think that's the eternal problem with mysteries - the deeper the mystery hole the writers put the show in, the harder it is to climb out. Abrams' involvement in Lost is really overstated and he had little to do with the show after the first season. Most of the credit and blame goes to Lindelof and Cuse.
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Apr 10, 2021 07:44
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Droyer posted:If you write a mystery without knowing the solution first you are a clown IMO.
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Apr 10, 2021 08:20
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Elephant Parade posted:this. a writer doesn't have to worry about not being able to work out a solution that fits the clues and themes if they knew the solution before publishing began and wrote the clues and themes with it the solution in mind (and vice versa) Columbo once again proving itself the chad mystery story-structure.
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Apr 10, 2021 08:21
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Mokinokaro posted:Konosuba never gets worse than the fanservice and Kazuma being a pervert (which most of the rest of the cast make fun of him for.) theres a lovely transphobic joke in the movie but in a series thats mostly going for sex jokes and grossout comedy its surprising they dont wind up at more jokes as bad as that, frankly
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Apr 10, 2021 08:48
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MiddleOne posted:Columbo once again proving itself the chad mystery story-structure. Columbo and Magnum P.I. are the good stuff, Poirot too.
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Apr 10, 2021 09:08
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Furuhata Ninzaburou is also worth tracking down. The titular character challenging the audience to work out how he figured out whom the killer was before the commercial break leading into the final act ends was part of the show, and they never introduced any new elements unknown to the audience either. My favourite was a TV psychic giving himself away by misidentifying the colour of his victim’s shirt as green because he saw a blue shirt through yellow-tinted glasses while he was panicking. Furuhata notices a TV camera with a colour filter, which was seen earlier in the show as well.
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Apr 10, 2021 09:23
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AoT is a good manga/anime in my experience, but in my opinion the reason why it's been so divisive is that the text and sub-text are pulling in opposite directions, and not in a way that compliments the story. Like, the story does say "war bad, fascism bad" etc, but it's being constantly undermined by the audience being shown that war is needed, our military dictatorship is good, torture works, megadeath has solved all our problems etc. It's a bit unfair to compare AoT to the best comic in history, but in Watchmen we get the story saying "megadeath has solved all our problems", but that is being constantly undermined by subtext in the story. The therapist that goes to break up the fight at great personal cost, and the newspaper man who shields the kid he's been yelling at the whole story with his body, all undermine the text that humanity is doomed to conflict. The intermittent story about the ghost pirates is an allegorical retelling of the whole story, and concludes "you just murdered a bunch of innocent people for no reason you idiot". Not to mention that the last panel is the instant before Adrian's house of cards collapses. This dissonance enhances the story, since we get the intellectual path that led Adrian to murder, but also a total refutation. There's no such story craft in AoT. It's basically a rollercoaster where a bunch of cool stuff happens, with some unfortunate political implications. It's fine to enjoy but it has serious weaknesses in it's writing. Bug Squash fucked around with this message at 10:10 on Apr 10, 2021 |
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Apr 10, 2021 10:00
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Pollyanna posted:Honestly, there’s something to be said for avoiding long-running projects like a decade-long manga. Come up with a core story and argument, compress it down, tell it, and wrap it the gently caress up! Don’t let things wither away from old age and end with a shart instead of a bang! Just don’t!!! More stuff like Chainsawman please. GoT's ending was interesting because despite the rapidly declining quality post season 4 a lot of people (including myself) stayed fairly positive about the series. Season 8 dropping was a proper emperor's new clothes moment; all the issues were at their worst and there was no chance for improvement. Not only was it a terrible ending but it really highlighted the shittyness of the preceding seasons. AoT's ending, while tripping over the long standing tension in the series themes, is a much more precipitous drop in quality. Makes you wonder if it will drop off the face of the earth as badly as GoT did.
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Apr 10, 2021 10:51
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Vagabong posted:
I find the tell for an adaptation is how well the adaptation-original content integrates with the adapted work. Stuff changes for legitimate reasons when changing format (pacing, actor availability, etc, etc), but you can generally tell an adaptation's gonna be dire when only the directly-transcribed parts are good. Altered Carbon's an example of this, where in the first season the stuff taken directly from the book is a pretty solid adaptation and a few tweaks are pretty understandable (changing the AI Hotel from The Hendrix to The Raven and Poe for example, because licensing Hendrix was probably a non-starter). But every time it tried to go off and do its own thing, it was utterly dire. The book's a pretty solid mystery novel, and the series writers just did not understand why individual parts take place as they do so things got changed arbitrarily and create plot holes or general stupidity. And come season two, there was no book to hide behind and all its crappy writing was laid bare. My favourite being Kovacs talking Bancroft into believing he actually DID commit suicide, a critical piece in the book where Kovacs realizes he's worked out what actually happened, and instead turns it into framing Bancroft's lawyer Oumou Prescott at the last second on the fly because... gently caress-you elitist scum, I'm a rebel...?  . It's sloppy work unbecoming of Kovacs that could easily be disproven a dozen ways, compared to just telling Bancroft he caught a random virus while slumming for virtual sex, and shot himself to keep it from spreading to his backup in a nice neat little lie.
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Apr 10, 2021 11:11
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Solitair posted:I'm the only goon on these forums with positive memories of Lost. I also loved Lost and I'll go a step further and say I loved the last season and the finale was good 
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Apr 10, 2021 11:16
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Bug Squash posted:AoT is a good manga/anime in my experience, but in my opinion the reason why it's been so divisive is that the text and sub-text are pulling in opposite directions, and not in a way that compliments the story. Like, the story does say "war bad, fascism bad" etc, but it's being constantly undermined by the audience being shown that war is needed, our military dictatorship is good, torture works, megadeath has solved all our problems etc. Honestly with AoT I never got the impression it was anti-war. Anti-fascism, yes. But less about "War is bad" and rather, "War is bad but sometimes necessary". Which is the stance a lot of media takes tbf.
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Apr 10, 2021 11:58
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Bleach' final arc started out very interesting. But you could tell the minute it went to hell. It was when the editors forced a popular character to not die when he should have died. Its heavily flawed, but I never felt the anime took itself that seriously.
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Apr 10, 2021 12:40
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Arcsquad12 posted:It is dumb as gently caress but it reminds me of David Eddings riffing on fantasy nonsense in the Belgariad. Decades ago I've read a foreword of him in one of his books where he explains his production process. He claims he started out as a non-fiction writer, but after his first book all attempts at getting another success were duds. So he looked at what money-makers existed and saw many fantasy writers getting a lot of readers and decided "hot drat, I'm a real writer, that poo poo would be easy for me" and so he meticulously planned what he thought was the perfect bland, stereotypical fantasy garbage to attract maximum readership. And then his first fantasy work was published, and a success. Feeling vindicated, he continued to write fantasy drivel and enjoying the success he felt he deserved. Basically, David Eddings approached fantasy writing like this weirdly capitalistic enterprise, with him the CEO of a factory making GBS threads out the fantasy version of comfort food. In hindsight, I now recognize why I enjoyed his books a lot as a kid, but re-reads during teenage and finally adult years all felt progressively worse until today I'm feeling mostly shame that I liked those books: They're basically the bland, empty equivalent of books written by an AI going through a checklist of things people like to trick you into thinking they're great writing. And as I grew up and became a writer myself, I started subconsciously detecting the fakery behind Edding's writing and it started to put me off more and more. That he was an abuser beyond being a lovely writer is news to me, though. When/what happened?
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Apr 10, 2021 12:50
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DeafNote posted:Bleach' final arc started out very interesting. But you could tell the minute it went to hell. That was when whats-her-name's brother gets killed, complete with loads of foreshadowing and build-up, only to flush it all away when he pops up in a hospital bed later. He doesn't do much afterwards which points at how there was nothing planned for him otherwise. Popularity polls are cancer. I wish the guy my avatar's based on didn't get shot in the chest in the middle of his own comic, but I can't fathom that story being improved by him just shrugging it off as just a flesh wound. Inspector Gesicht fucked around with this message at 12:57 on Apr 10, 2021 |
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Apr 10, 2021 12:51
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Game of Thrones was weird because it fell off a cliff after season 4 but if you look at critic reviews and the general public the show was quality until it poo poo the bed right at the end. Hell I think season 5 (I'd say the worst overall season before the last) has higher critic reviews than season 1. Kinda jealous of the people who thought the show was good up until the end but also I guess it's worse for them because they weren't ready for how bad the ending would be. The Attack on Titan stuff is just hilarious why would think that was a good ending as you wrote it?
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Apr 10, 2021 12:55
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Srice posted:Honestly with AoT I never got the impression it was anti-war. Anti-fascism, yes. But less about "War is bad" and rather, "War is bad but sometimes necessary". Which is the stance a lot of media takes tbf. AoT's text is "fascism is bad" but again that message is completely undermined by the subtext. The protagonists overthrow a civilian government for a military dictatorship, but it's ok because the right military people are noble and just. They also torture people, and while the text is "boy torture sure is bad", that is also undermined by the subtext "... but it got us the information we needed and the guy being tortured was a bad'un". Like, I don't think the author is literally a fascist, but he is lazily borrowing a lot of tropes from Japanese militarism.
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Apr 10, 2021 13:07
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 20:54 |
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Groovelord Neato posted:Game of Thrones was weird because it fell off a cliff after season 4 but if you look at critic reviews and the general public the show was quality until it poo poo the bed right at the end. Hell I think season 5 (I'd say the worst overall season before the last) has higher critic reviews than season 1. Kinda jealous of the people who thought the show was good up until the end but also I guess it's worse for them because they weren't ready for how bad the ending would be. and this was just posted in the aot manga thread: quote:To add to this conspiracy theory, Isayama's editor (Shintaro Kawakubo) used to be chief editor of Bessatsu Shonen until around august of last year. After that, he stepped down from the position and continued to be just Isayama's editor. This is the man who took Isayama in right after he walked out of Shueisha who'd only publish him if he accepted changes to characters and story. Bug Squash posted:AoT's text is "fascism is bad" but again that message is completely undermined by the subtext. The protagonists overthrow a civilian government for a military dictatorship, but it's ok because the right military people are noble and just. They also torture people, and while the text is "boy torture sure is bad", that is also undermined by the subtext "... but it got us the information we needed and the guy being tortured was a bad'un".
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Apr 10, 2021 13:35
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