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New Leaf posted:My wife and I have only watched the dubbed anime and we're really struggling with the last season. Are we just dense or is it really hard to follow what's going on sometimes? There's a dedicated anime thread if you don't want to spoil yourself inadvertently: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3950431 I haven't watched the latest season yet but the last third of the manga is bloated in terms of setup yeah. That would be fine if it delivered some serious payoffs but uh... well let's just say we're looking forward to how the anime is going to handle its ending.
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Apr 11, 2021 19:46
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Man remember how Mikasa was secretly a princess?
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Apr 11, 2021 19:52
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Remember how Eren told Louise to throw Mikasa's scarf away? I guess he expected Mikasa to go rifling through the garbage for it.
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Apr 11, 2021 20:44
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The whole "forgiving a person who has committed crimes against humanity" thing isn't new to shounen series, it's just usually reserved for antagonists to have them join the protagonists (think Piccolo and Vegeta). https://twitter.com/Struggle_Tweet/status/1380997484235747330 More seriously, I am firmly of the belief that the problem here is mostly an overestimation of the author's chops, and a misreading of authorial intent in terms of morality and violence. The violence of AoT is portrayed as gross and gruesome but it's also always been portrayed as necessary: without a violent, militarised society the people of Paradis would have forever been unable to survive and learn the truth about the world. The basement reveal and Marley's role in Paradis' state of siege, with Gabi and Falco's arc were a shift to a cycle-of-violence theme - but one that was used not to refute, but to understand and affirm the necessity of violence.
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Apr 11, 2021 21:32
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YF-23 posted:More seriously, I am firmly of the belief that the problem here is mostly an overestimation of the author's chops, and a misreading of authorial intent in terms of morality and violence. The violence of AoT is portrayed as gross and gruesome but it's also always been portrayed as necessary: without a violent, militarised society the people of Paradis would have forever been unable to survive and learn the truth about the world. The basement reveal and Marley's role in Paradis' state of siege, with Gabi and Falco's arc were a shift to a cycle-of-violence theme - but one that was used not to refute, but to understand and affirm the necessity of violence. I mean, the thematic purpose of violence in the series was most clearly shown in the chapter that was reprinted in color alongside the final chapter, Friends. Uri Reiss uses violence to prevent Kenny from attacking him, then abandons his power to talk. Violence is meant to create a situation where other methods can be used, but even when necessary, it's tragic and a tool to be abandoned at the first opportunity. (Thus the emphasis in the leadup to the timeskip on Titans as fellow victims. There was no solution other than force, but that didn't make force good.) The Alliance using the rumbling (bad) as an opportunity to create an environment where peace could exist through diplomacy (good) is keeping with the past attitudes of the series. The area where it feels like a break from past chapters is in Paradis moving to take up the role of the oppressor rather that stepping out of the cycle and trying to open diplomatic channels on its own. (Well, that and the reactions to Eren. If you held a gun to my head and made me talk about the hypothetical ending we didn't get that I believe existed, I suspect Eren would live and have his remaining friends distance themselves from him, burdened for the rest of his life by the weight of unforgivable sin. Having everyone talk about how great he was is a kind of half-assed replacement to give Eren a conclusion as a character.)
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Apr 11, 2021 22:06
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Well, that was definitely an ending.
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Apr 11, 2021 22:57
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lol called it way back and even got poo poo for saying it's not great that we get a sympathetic take on camp kapos, glad the story really stuck the landing and managed to pay off all the years of buildup. Peace sure is looking promising, what with one side the terrified survivors of global genocide and the other being We Aren't Titans Any More, Citation: Bro Trust Me (plus, you know, their nation back home gearing up for the inevitable retaliation, which makes diplomatic efforts seem a little duplicitous at best even if the characters don't intend it to be). Say what you will about Watchmen, regardless of Moore/Snyder/HBO version, the idea of a unifying threat is that it's external. Again, all those 20% have to go on is Trust Me Bro, and even if they take that step it's rational to ask "well what if they get the powers back, we don't understand how they work". If this is an intentional way to sneak a bleak as gently caress ending under editorial notice (which still feels a little like copium to me, but hey stranger things have happened) then you know what, it's still dumb but I can at least appreciate the attempt to salvage a different vision. Release the Isayama Cut. 
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Apr 11, 2021 23:58
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Fister Roboto posted:Well, that was definitely an ending. Technically, yes. I think I'll feel good about Attack on Titan as a whole again once I've cooled down, but it's less thinking better of the ending than it is how detached the ending feels from the rest of the series. Even as the climax, it doesn't feel organic to the events leading up to it. Getting into a rant a little bit, I think that the obviously abandoned Historia and Eren subplot's kind of necessary for the final events here, and the manga replacing it with Farmer kept the harm (sidelining Historia, weakening the emotional weight of her relationship with Ymir, which was really drat good) and lost all the benefit that could have justified the decision. Previously in the arc, the conflict was between Armin and company being right, but philosophically unfocused, while Eren was wrong, but philosophically strong and coherant. The obvious endgame would be for Armin to get his poo poo together, convincingly present a thematic argument for a (tentative, fragile, but real) peace ending, and defeat Eren, just like Eren defeated Zeke earlier, with Mikasa delivering the finishing blow to conclude her arc by splitting from Eren, even if she still loved him. (The kiss panel was a great, hosed up way to end things for them. Too bad this chapter had to ruin that, too. Seriously, this chapter gets worse the more I think about it.) Instead, we just had Eren rendered incoherent and (worse) kind of vaguely right. Previously, Eren had the unspoken but implied motive of saving his love interest and child from slavery, even at the cost of the world. The logical ending would have that goal achieved with less brutal methods, allowing Eren a victory and acknowledging the good in his motives (hatred for slavery, pro-natalism) without justifying the evil. His new goal, by contrast, had Ymir imprisoned by herself rather than by Karl, making freeing her not a logical extension of the Eren who killed slavers to save Mikasa, but a vague plot device. Worse, if Eren just wanted to save his friends, his plan is worse at that than Zeke's approach or the 50 year plan. Sure, they were still terrible, but they didn't kill hundreds of millions including, most relevantly, Hange and Sasha. Basically, prior to this chapter Eren was a driven, complicated villain with sympathetic motives. After it, he's the world's crappiest hero. chiasaur11 fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Apr 12, 2021 |
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Apr 12, 2021 00:13
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imagine being able to sympathise with eren or his motives
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Apr 12, 2021 00:21
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Another Person posted:imagine being able to sympathise with eren or his motives Eren's motives as suggested by previous chapters: "I would like my loved ones to be safe and live long and happy lives. I do not want the woman I love and our unborn child to be enslaved as broodmares, doomed to short and miserable lives as weapons of the state." What he does is monstrous, but the motives that inspire the actions are human and sympathetic. Eren's motives in this chapter: "I guess I want to make the world look flat like in books? And to make my friends heroes by killing millions of people, maybe? gently caress, I dunno." The actions are just as bad, but the motivations are no longer relatable or coherent.
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Apr 12, 2021 00:26
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What even was the point of revealing that Ymir freed the pigs only to have it revealed that she loved her slaver and rapist for 2k years... smdh
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Apr 12, 2021 00:41
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I think there was some stuff here that had potential, but it feels extremely rushed. I think it's interesting that in wiping out 80 percent of humanity Eren became the apocalypse that never happened in the fake history of the world that those within the walls were taught. Also did I miss it, but is it ever stated that Eren knew about the titan worm and that killing it was key to ending the Titans? Also what exactly did Mikasa do that freed Ymir from her love of King Fritz? I think I need to give this last chapter another read. threeagainstfour fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Apr 12, 2021 |
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Apr 12, 2021 00:50
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The Worm does nothing but muddy the plot. Pointless final boss
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Apr 12, 2021 01:08
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make a sequel where someone finds another hallucigenia but they aren't a pickmeisha or a hitler
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Apr 12, 2021 01:20
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The Titan Defender has logged on https://twitter.com/mayu_t0m0/status/1380941287113691140?s=19
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Apr 12, 2021 01:30
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Eej posted:The Titan Defender has logged on A quick glimpse suggests it's been better received in Japan than in other countries, but all I've given it is a glimpse. Curious if I missed something, or if there's cultural considerations that make things land much better in Japan than anywhere else. It's funny. Figured I'd be done with things after 139, for good or ill, but the ending left me confused enough that I'm looking for interviews to clarify how things landed the way they did. I find it hard to believe this was the ending we were going to get six months ago, let alone from the beginning, so finding out what went down feels much more interesting than it would have if I felt satisfied with how this ended.
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Apr 12, 2021 01:43
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threeagainstfour posted:Also what exactly did Mikasa do that freed Ymir from her love of King Fritz? I think I need to give this last chapter another read. It's pretty dumb, but all she had to do, apparently, was kill Eren. Like I guess that somehow showed Ymir that loving someone doesn't have to bind you to blindly support them no matter what. You'd imagine another example would have come up in 2k years but lol. You do NOT have to give this chapter another read, hth.
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Apr 12, 2021 01:46
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Some of these fan changes make a lot more sense
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Apr 12, 2021 01:48
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loving paths man, all that time travel shite always makes a right mess out of any story.
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Apr 12, 2021 02:03
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That's weird because the paths are not what's wrong with this ending. The spacetime shenanigans were actually pretty well done in this story.
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Apr 12, 2021 02:09
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 I like how it looks like Armin is handing him a pile of poop.
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Apr 12, 2021 02:23
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If Isayama comes out and says this was his ending, not editorialized, I’m not sure if I’d feel better or worse about the whole thing. I don’t regret buying this series on bluray, because it’s still really strong up through season 3. Coincidentally, all my favorite anime have controversial (or nonexistent) endings. Hunter x Hunter, Bebop, Eva, and now AoT.
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Apr 12, 2021 02:30
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Tenzarin posted:Wow did I miss a page of the last chapter? This is actually how that line feels. Anyone who says it’s better with the proper translation is fooling themselves, it’s just as dumb and it’s not salvageable. They all knew that he was doing it for them before this chapter, it’s just they could not reconcile with that idea and wanted to find another path. Thanking him for putting them in a world that is worse off is not something Armin of all people would be doing. Frionnel posted:That's weird because the paths are not what's wrong with this ending. That’s correct. The Paths stuff was all good and made sense, it’s the utter assasination of the story’s themes, retroactively ruining character arcs and moments, the atrocious dialogue and the complete sidelining of certain characters like Historia who apparentlly one was big fakeout is what went bad. I just can’t believe it could all go so wrong in just one chapter
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Apr 12, 2021 02:35
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bees x1000 posted:If Isayama comes out and says this was his ending, not editorialized, I’m not sure if I’d feel better or worse about the whole thing. I haven't seen much controversy around Bebop's end, beyond "So, you think Spike died?" Seems to be pretty accepted in general. As for this, though... even if it was purely Isayama's choice, it's obvious it was a very recent choice. Even 138 feels odd in this context, with so much emphasis put on this being it for Jean and Connie... then they're fine, it didn't matter. None of it mattered. And Eren puts emphasis on Historia again, before not mentioning her in 139 at all. If Isayama freely chose the chapter he released as an ending, with no revision to try to please the audience... well. That's much stranger than the alternative.) (Rereading 138 also was... surprisingly good. Divorced from the tension of worrying how things would land, it has some great character moments, solid dramatic irony, a conclusion to Mikasa's arc, and a decent enough resolution to the opening dream. Meanwhile, rereading 139... it still doesn't work.)
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Apr 12, 2021 03:06
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Asuron posted:They all knew that he was doing it for them before this chapter, it’s just they could not reconcile with that idea and wanted to find another path. Thanking him for putting them in a world that is worse off is not something Armin of all people would be doing. I dunno, if some I cared about windmill slammed a "Kill Everyone Besides My Family" button so that I wouldn't die... I feel like I'd feel thankful, if uncomfortable. Feelings are complicated, you can't expect people to react perfectly rationally and morally to someone so close to them, you know?
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Apr 12, 2021 03:56
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Yes, but it's the conclusion of the story, we don't have time to deal with Armin's complicated feelings (or rather, Armin is not given the pages to do so) and the author needs to present a clear moral.
Frionnel fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Apr 12, 2021 |
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Apr 12, 2021 04:29
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Frionnel posted:and the author needs to present a clear moral. They actually have no obligation whatsoever to do this
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Apr 12, 2021 06:04
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I honestly was personally hoping that after eren got decapitated that it stopped following anyone and just had an animal house-esque epilogue instead of explaining anything, since eren died and it was mostly following him through the series. I still wish it was that. 
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Apr 12, 2021 06:48
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Strawberry Pyramid posted:I dunno, if some I cared about windmill slammed a "Kill Everyone Besides My Family" button so that I wouldn't die... I feel like I'd feel thankful, if uncomfortable. Except Armin literally fought tooth and nail to stop this from happening for like, the past 8 chapters - it's not like the situation suddenly arose, Armin has had plenty of time to process what is going on and everything until the last chapter indicated that he was not in any way thankful.
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Apr 12, 2021 07:59
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Side note, I really wish the anime season had been able to end on Eren's Declaration. I can't imagine how interminable the discussion about how awful the Sterilization Plan is for nearly a year will be for them without knowing Eren's alternative is even worse.
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Apr 12, 2021 08:24
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Fister Roboto posted:
I too thought this immediately. I momentarily thought we were going to transition into paths and have everyone hurling their poo poo at Eren like apes. I was disappointed.
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Apr 12, 2021 14:10
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Szmitten posted:I too thought this immediately. Ok thats the real ending for me now
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Apr 12, 2021 14:17
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Why would julias leave that loving meme in the rear end in a top hat's spoiler post and then put the note above it lol
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Apr 12, 2021 14:50
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drat, just saw that the bird Eren turned into is a kind of parasitic jaeger (which actually do nest around South Africa and Madagascar). As expected of Vanderdeath fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Apr 12, 2021 |
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Apr 12, 2021 16:41
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Captain Invictus posted:Why would julias leave that loving meme in the rear end in a top hat's spoiler post and then put the note above it lol Point taken. I edited the picture out.
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Apr 12, 2021 19:35
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The anime thread is great because it is an uncanny look into how seriously this thread took the manga a year or two ago. Do not troll it and ruin it pls.
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Apr 12, 2021 21:32
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So many more people watch the anime than read the manga so it's going to be interesting the hysterics that occur when the anime reaches...this end.
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Apr 12, 2021 21:50
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Ccs posted:So many more people watch the anime than read the manga so it's going to be interesting the hysterics that occur when the anime reaches...this end. If it does. I'm not expecting an anime original ending, but from how clear it is that this was a total pivot from whatever the original 139 was, it seems likely the anime is going to adjust things to fit together better. We already have less of the manga's blatant "THE FARMER IS A RED HERRING, EREN AND HISTORIA TOTALLY hosed!" hinting (still some, but notably less), which makes abandoning that line of things easier. Assuming that Isayama wasn't trying for intentional sabotage, or at least that he gets it out of his system before assisting on the final part of the final season, we should get a less dramatic response. Mass Effect 3 Extended Cut, not the original release, where people who see it first go "Eh, that was fine, could have been better", even though it doesn't satisfy the people who were upset with the first release. Or it could be even worse somehow, but Promised Neverlanding this one would be a pretty standout bit of failure.
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Apr 12, 2021 22:12
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I'd be willing to believe in an anime-only ending. I haven't watched it but I feel like it has to do something differently from the manga to get so many people to start thinking Eren is ultra competent, Eren doesn't like Mikasa, Eren and Historia are actively engaged in a romance, flawless super genocide is the correct thematic end to the story, etc.
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Apr 12, 2021 22:15
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Ccs posted:So many more people watch the anime than read the manga so it's going to be interesting the hysterics that occur when the anime reaches...this end. Maybe the anime will pull a reverse GOT and actually have a good ending.
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Apr 12, 2021 23:06
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