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howe_sam
Mar 7, 2013

Creepy little garbage eaters

Communist Zombie posted:

This is probably the best thread to ask this but did/do DC museums have special measures to protect their inventory from nuclear attack during the cold war? Even if its just moving things out of the city when itd seem prudent. And how badly would they be damaged from a nuclear attack?

The National Archives does for the founding documents. Whether or not it could survive a nuclear war? :shrug:

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standard.deviant
May 17, 2012

Globally Indigent

Murgos posted:

I think you could easily show a squadron of Mig 21's and a battery of Igla's housing a 279 airframe B-29 raid. The Mig's get what? 3 or 4 opportunities to sortie out, hit the 29's return, refuel, rearm and hit them again starting from max range? How many can they get per sortie before they run out of missiles and cannon rounds? 40? 50?
I think you’re pretty optimistic about sortie turn times on those MiGs.

Dandywalken
Feb 11, 2014

Lol Id say so

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

"Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"

Communist Zombie posted:

This is probably the best thread to ask this but did/do DC museums have special measures to protect their inventory from nuclear attack during the cold war? Even if its just moving things out of the city when itd seem prudent. And how badly would they be damaged from a nuclear attack?

The Smithsonian owns secure but unhardened resto sites well outside the city and I would assume nowadays they've probably got an agreement with either the federal government and/or Iron Mountain to evac the most valuable poo poo that can be made portable in a hurry if any poo poo looked like it was about to hit any fans.

TK-42-1
Oct 30, 2013

looks like we have a bad transmitter



If DC eats a bunch of nukes I highly doubt anyone is going to care about the lost artifacts. At least not for whatever the half-life of plutonium is.

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

"Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"

TK-42-1 posted:

If DC eats a bunch of nukes I highly doubt anyone is going to care about the lost artifacts. At least not for whatever the half-life of plutonium is.

By the 70s and 80s, it was estimated everything within 50 miles of the White House in any direction would've been glowing and on fire. There is a repurposed Fed bunker out in Warrenton VA I believe where a good portion of photographic and sound items are stored for posterity.

Godholio
Aug 28, 2002

Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

Mortabis posted:

And if the war is going to start anyway, that doesn't matter. And maybe your ability to do it prevents the war from happening without actually having to move anything there.

That said I'm of the view that we would, if we already had troops there ahead of time, successfully fend off a Chinese attack against Taiwan. So that creates quite the conundrum for them, doesn't it? Forcing them into a confrontation they're guaranteed to lose.

Secretary Rumsfeld, please.

aphid_licker
Jan 7, 2009


priznat posted:

You know those military combat simulators where you have armies of different types and then hit go and they fight? I realized I want that but for air power/air defense.

Murgos posted:

I kind of want one for dismantling an IADS with a set number of assets. It would be a puzzle game sort of.

First you hit that radar with your expensive long range or steathy stuff, which lets you get to that missile battery over there. Once that's down you have a window to get to a deep target that has a bunch of secondary effects. And so on.

Isn't that basically CMANO?

TCD
Nov 13, 2002

Every step, a fucking adventure.

aphid_licker posted:

Isn't that basically CMANO?

Yeah, you could model that in CMANO. Haven't tried B29s vs Mig 21s and Iglas tho.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

Defense Watch Watch: Military procurement a success, says DND — MP questions whether the department has lost touch with reality

quote:

Military equipment procurement is not only well managed but all programs are within budget and on schedule, the Department of National Defence has boasted to parliament.

But with shipbuilding projects going billions of dollars over cost and other equipment purchases delayed, a Conservative MP says the department’s claims are pure fantasy.

[...]

But Conservative MP Kelly McCauley said the report seems to be a window into an alternate universe. “I find it mind-boggling they are trying to claim everything is on schedule when obviously that isn’t the case,” said McCauley, who monitors procurement on the Commons government operations committee. “DND seems detached from reality.”

The claims made in the plan come at the same time that major problems have emerged with the Canadian Surface Combatant project, the most expensive single purchase in the country’s history. The project would see the construction of 15 warships for the Royal Canadian Navy at Irving Shipbuilding on the east coast.

The vessels are to replace the current Halifax-class frigate fleet, but the price tag has continued to climb over the years. The project’s original cost was estimated at $14 billion but that increased to $26 billion and then to $70 billion. In late February, Parliamentary Budget Officer Yves Giroux estimated the cost has now increased to $77 billion.

In addition, on Feb. 1 the DND admitted that the delivery of the first surface combatant ship would be delayed until 2030 or 2031. The first ship was to have been delivered in 2025, according to previous DND documents.

Other projects, including the acquisition of Arctic and offshore patrol ships, as well as supply vessels, have also increased in cost and slipped behind schedule. Programs to purchase new fighter jets and drones have also been taking years, McCauley noted.

It’s not the first time that the DND has pushed back against criticism there are problems with defence procurement. In July 2020, DND officials denied they ever misjudged the cost of a project to buy new naval supply vessels, called Joint Support Ships, even though the price tag jumped from $2.3 billion to $4.1 billion in less than two years.

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006

BlueFootedBoobie posted:

Simple service parochialism?

In America in 2021 we have developed beyond simple service parochialism. We have advanced service parochialism.

Godholio
Aug 28, 2002

Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?
Canada needs to burn it's military procurement chain of command to the ground.

in a well actually
Jan 26, 2011

dude, you gotta end it on the rhyme

Godholio posted:

Canada needs to burn it's military chain of command to the ground.

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.
Yes and yes.

One of the federal parties, the leftmost mainstream party (NDP) is having their convention. They get a big stew of wacky resolutions to vote on every time they have one of these from the real hardcore naomi klein wing of the party and one is basically disband the entire military.

At this point I’m like “ehhh, they kinda got a point tbh, would it be any worse?” I don’t agree on their rationale but from a purely practical point of view having nothing would be cheaper without the constant fuckups.

We’d have fun until whoever wanted our water just moved in and took over but frankly the CF as is wouldn’t deter much of that anyway :sigh:

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY
I'm sure Canada's southern neighbor would be happy to provide military services in exchange for privatizing social services

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

Kesper North posted:

I'm sure Canada's southern neighbor would be happy to provide military services in exchange for privatizing social services

Yeah that’s the huge irony that these folks don’t seem to get.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

Got a question: is there any way to estimate the future output of shipyards, or know how much production capacity a particular shipyard has?

I've been plugging some numbers into a spreadsheet hoping to make an infographic of some sort. The Halifax class is already past its normal life span as the class was all commissioned 1992-1996; the last one, HMCS Ottawa, reaches its 25 year mark this year. Given that the destroyers rusted out ages ago, I think yet another knock against the NSS is that the timing is just too badly off, as all the replacement ships will start replacing the frigates at twice their projected lifespan. This makes me think the is no way in hell the Halifax shipyard can build all 15 frigates in a timely manner. (The Halifax class was built by Davie and Irving Saint John shipyards.)

Godholio posted:

Canada needs to burn it's military procurement chain of command to the ground.

Agreed

Wingnut Ninja
Jan 11, 2003

Mostly Harmless


There's something odd about this ad, but I just can't quite put my collective on it.

Thomamelas
Mar 11, 2009

Wingnut Ninja posted:



There's something odd about this ad, but I just can't quite put my collective on it.

The photo is set at a dutch angle which makes for a slightly unpleasant feeling we don't usually seek out. They brought out some orange elements along with the red ones which feels weird. I'm not 100% but I also think that is a helicopter cockpit. Bell 412? Which would explain the sense of blood lust coming off of it. Also the whole not a fighter, not fighter pilots thing.

Xakura
Jan 10, 2019

A safety-conscious little mouse!
Isn't fighter pilot supplements just amphetamine

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

"Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"

Xakura posted:

Isn't fighter pilot supplements just amphetamine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FfVNMIzy0Y

Wingnut Ninja
Jan 11, 2003

Mostly Harmless

The Brink is a lovely miniseries; it's like Catch-22 or Pentagon Wars where it's got a lot of things that aren't technically accurate, but nevertheless captures the spirit of the military very truthfully. And it's got enough weirdly precise details that they clearly had someone who knew their poo poo as an advisor, and intentionally deviate from that for the sake of the story and ease of understanding.

Like, the CAG in that scene mentions Provigil, which is the "go-pill" that they actually issue to pilots (though you can just get it from the flight docs, you don't need a guy to smuggle it on board). And they warn you when they issue you go/no-go pills not to get them mixed up, which made me think of that exact scene.

Thomamelas posted:

Also the whole not a fighter, not fighter pilots thing.

Yeah, it's blatantly a helicopter cockpit, which I thought was really funny.

RaffyTaffy
Oct 15, 2008

Godholio posted:

There's a good chance this actually starts a loving war.

Well we might find out. According to the article below, they have started production on a missile.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-taiwan-defence-idUSKBN2BH0IT

Not sure what missiles they are producing here. I would guess a cruise missile of some sort or perhaps they have bought something from Isreal again.

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

Thomamelas posted:

I'm not 100% but I also think that is a helicopter cockpit. Bell 412?

:thejoke: he is making is that the right-seat pilot is holding, in his left hand, the "collective pitch control lever" which is something fixed-wing aircraft definitely do not have.

Godholio
Aug 28, 2002

Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

Xakura posted:

Isn't fighter pilot supplements just amphetamine

Usually it's

Downrange, yeah amphetamines and Rip Its.

Mortabis
Jul 8, 2010

I am stupid

Xakura posted:

Isn't fighter pilot supplements just amphetamine

thought it was modafinil

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004

Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration
Nap Ghost

Godholio posted:

Usually it's

Downrange, yeah amphetamines and Rip Its.

I prefer mango. Bang does a good job of not quite tasting like poo poo, waking you up, not causing jitters, and not causing the shits. A+ before going on a ruck march for hours or watching a radar scope for hours.

Noosphere
Aug 31, 2008

[[[error]]] Damn not found.
Here's a cool look at life on a British sub in 1960. Smoking and jamming with guitars on cruise, the good life.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEm951BodYM

Murgos
Oct 21, 2010

mlmp08 posted:

I prefer mango. Bang does a good job of not quite tasting like poo poo, waking you up, not causing jitters, and not causing the shits. A+ before going on a ruck march for hours or watching a radar scope for hours.

Back in my day you just poured the instant coffee, sugar and creamer from your mre in your mouth and chugged some water.

loving millennials and their fancy energy drinks. Do they bring you an avocado toast with that?

Fake edit: avocado toast is good.

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004

Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration
Nap Ghost
In the field proper it’s instant coffee swigged back with water. Anything else added prolongs the grit being in your teeth.

On air bases and FOBs where I can get it, bang all day. Especially for when Rip Its go dry for a few weeks unexpectedly.

TCD
Nov 13, 2002

Every step, a fucking adventure.

Murgos posted:

Back in my day you just poured the instant coffee, sugar and creamer from your mre in your mouth and chugged some water.

loving millennials and their fancy energy drinks. Do they bring you an avocado toast with that?

Fake edit: avocado toast is good.

The oldest millennials can now file EEO violations based on age. That's going to get a few fed supervisors.

PeterCat
Apr 8, 2020

Believe women.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye


Amazing

Rockets and People Vol. 3

So just like the Americans, the Soviets apprehended quickly that reconnaissance satellites were going to be big. The first launch attempt would sadly see the rocket destroyed - correctly - by the self destruct system once the rocket motor failed. (Not sure if there's an American equivalent, but the Soviets put an auto-destruct in their unmanned space launches that triggered whenever the spacecraft was projected to land in non USSR territory.) As Chertok says, the only people pleased by the post-mortem on the launch was the team that designed the self-destruct system.

The lesson taken from this in 1962 was, once again, they were trying to get to space too fast, and more work was needed. They hash this out on a long flight back to Moscow around Christmastime. Also despite flying, the IL-14 they were in was *not heated*. I imagine those dudes were good at dressing for cold.

They also have a hilariously bad inspection by a top brass. The good part of this was that for a day the commissary was turned up to Moscow VIP levels:

quote:

Finally, after many rechecks, the R-16 [Soviet ICBM] launch also proceeded normally. Considering the experience of the preceding launch at Site No. 31 and to avoid an embarrassing situation, the decision was made not to have the launch crew form up. Having received word of the successful R-16 launch, we headed to the dining hall. After two such difficult days, the marshal really should also check out the operation of the “marshal’s” dining hall. That morning at breakfast, we had been notified that if the marshal stopped in for lunch, it would be a special one. Despite this psychological preparation, we were stunned.

In front of every place setting lay a leather-bound menu. To us it read like a fairy tale: “Fresh red salmon caviar, sturgeon in aspic, cold-smoked barbel, cured sturgeon fillets, back of Siberian salmon with lemon, sprat with lemon, crab with peas in mayonnaise, roast beef, ham with horseradish, chicken salad, mushrooms with onions, radishes with sour cream, farmer’s cheese, sour cream, borsch Moscow-style, home-made noodles, sturgeon soup, Polish-style pike perch, braised veal, stewed chicken, steak with French fries and cornichons, chicken Kiev, crepes with jam, crepes with sour cream, black coffee, coffee with milk, tea with lemon, tea with jam.” Crystal bowls sat on the table, mounded with fruit—oranges, apples, and grapes. There were all sorts of mineral water, including Yessentuki, known for its healing properties.

We began a competition to see who could try the most dishes. Someone expressed regret that the menu did not contain certain items [i.e., alcohol] beneficial to our work. “While the marshal is here—no way! We are under a strict prohibition policy for the time being,” warned the military exchange officer. Marshal Malinovskiy never graced our dining hall with his presence.

I tried to do justice to the most enticing zakuski and dishes by “squirreling” some away, but I simply couldn’t spend more than three rubles on the “whole kit and caboodle.” Someone boasted that he had eaten an entire five rubles’ worth of dishes. By today’s standards, the prices were really fantastic: the price of the most expensive appetizer—caviar—served as a standard of comparison. A decent-sized portion cost just 47 kopeks. [about 50 cents.]

Godholio
Aug 28, 2002

Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

mlmp08 posted:

I prefer mango. Bang does a good job of not quite tasting like poo poo, waking you up, not causing jitters, and not causing the shits. A+ before going on a ruck march for hours or watching a radar scope for hours.

Agreed on all points. I still usually avoid them, but I keep one in the office at all times.

Discussion Quorum
Dec 5, 2002
Armchair Philistine

I went down a Wikipedia rabbit hole because I had never heard of Viveca Lindfors, but she could bring shade:

Viveca Lindfors posted:

Ronnie was not a big star. He didn't carry enough weight. To think that the guy became president is really kind of funny.

Mortabis
Jul 8, 2010

I am stupid
He wasn't an A-list actor but he was head of the Screen Actors Guild which probably was a much better way to break into politics at the time than simply being a household name.

Blistex
Oct 30, 2003

Macho Business
Donkey Wrestler

Mortabis posted:

He wasn't an A-list actor but he was head of the Screen Actors Guild which probably was a much better way to break into politics at the time than simply being a household name.

Nancy wasn't much of an actress, but she had other talents.

TCD
Nov 13, 2002

Every step, a fucking adventure.

Blistex posted:

Nancy wasn't much of an actress, but she had other talents.

E nm

TCD fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Apr 12, 2021

Remulak
Jun 8, 2001
I can't count to four.
Yams Fan

Blistex posted:

Nancy wasn't much of an actress, but she had other talents.
Really misogynist and probably not true, but goddamn she’s such a villain that it doesn’t bother me. Although loving Sinatra in the White House, starting the conservative cucking frenzy, is probably her greatest legacy.

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TCD
Nov 13, 2002

Every step, a fucking adventure.

Remulak posted:

Really misogynist and probably not true, but goddamn she’s such a villain that it doesn’t bother me. Although loving Sinatra in the White House, starting the conservative cucking frenzy, is probably her greatest legacy.

Back on point - was there a celebrity cross-over pre-Reagan that went on to Governor/President?

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