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Jhet posted:I think that robot wouldn't necessarily be a bad idea if that's all your wanting. The problem I can see you maybe having is that your grinder isn't going to be consistent enough for espresso grinding and not all burrs are made the same. What would you be grinding with? I have one of these https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B013RGGFZM/ If it doesn't work well I'll get the shop to grind it for me since I've found that I'm not too particular about shop grind vs home grind for my coffee.
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Apr 12, 2021 16:10
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Dren posted:I have one of these the issue is mostly that cheap grinders don't provide much in the way of uniformity, which as a result means that your coffee can be both over- and under-extracted in the same cup. it's more noticeable ime when it comes to espresso than drip. you'll definitely want to keep grinding your coffee fresh, as pre-ground coffee tends to stale either within about a day of grinding or opening, depending on how you purchase it. with all that said i think you'll probably still enjoy your coffee that you grind just fine and later down the road you'll be able to upgrade your grinder to provide a better, more stable experience. and with something like the robot, you'll have a machine that will still work just fine when you get to that point.
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Apr 12, 2021 16:35
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Dren posted:I have one of these That's going to give you trouble for espresso I would wager. Getting the shop to grind it is a decent stop-gap, but you won't be able to dial it in if it's off just a little bit. It would probably be better than that grinder though. I know there's some good hand grinders out there for espresso, but I believe they're all $100+ and that would be your next immediate increase in quality. Edit: You'd find a big increase in quality for your pour overs too by replacing that grinder if that impacts your decision making at all. Your grind would be more consistent and you'll pull out flavors differently with less fines. Jhet fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Apr 12, 2021 |
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Apr 12, 2021 16:38
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oh the robot looks cool, i just watched hoffman's video and it seems like it's the one manual espresso machine he doesn't complain about having to spend a good amount of time preheating
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Apr 12, 2021 16:51
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If you want $300 including the grinder, and you don't need to make 5 shots in a row, this can be cheaper than the robot: https://flairespresso.com/ $120 NEO + $24 bottomless filter + $56 pressure gauge = $200 --or-- $240 for the Signature which already has those + looks a bit nicer. Hoffmann thinks they are good for the price as long as you get those accessories and don't mind the process. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZV-tnx6BN8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye5Amz7ddYw It's what I'm planning to buy myself for my birthday, so I don't have experience with it yet. Looking through the thread Rated PG-34 and AbsoluteLlama seem to like it. Munkaboo didn't, due to the fussiness.
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Apr 12, 2021 17:03
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Dren posted:I've been doing pour over but I think I would like to switch to espresso. I looked at a few guides to espresso machines but am unclear as to what I'd want to buy. $300 is pushing it for my budget on this. Is that a realistic price point to get a decent result? I know some machines have extra features to make lattes and I do not need to make a latte, I want straight espresso. The flair neo will give you the best results in that price range with the equipment you already have. Don't bother with the bottomless portafilter accessory for now - you want a pressurized portafilter, like the one the flair neo comes with, to get good results either with the grinder you have or store-ground beans. Later on, if you like, you can upgrade your grinder - the 1zpresso jx-pro is a well-regarded hand grinder for espresso, at around $160 - and then you'd see a benefit from getting the bottomless portafilter. Alternatively you can try to find a deal on some used gear. $300 is not impossible for a used rancilio silvia or gaggia classic, but you'd need either a pressurized portafilter or, again, a grinder upgrade to go along with it. People in this thread have talked about finding baratza precisos at thrift stores for pennies, so I don't really know what the lower limit is here, but that's the kind of thing you would be looking for. Any of these options is going to be leaning much more towards the "hobby" side of coffee than the "easy" side. The flair (and the robot) are completely manual machines and you'll have to handle everything from grinding and tamping, heating water and preheating the basket, and providing the pressure to extract your coffee, by hand. The rancilio and gaggia are capable, relatively cheap machines, but both are single boiler machines with temperature stability issues and you'll need a lot of practice to get consistent results with either. They also introduce the possibility of mechanical failures, from pump failure to boiler overheating due to hard water deposits, that you'll need to be aware of, and you'll need to stay on top of cleaning and maintaining them. This is not to scare you off but to make sure you know what you're getting into - if you're the type of person who doesn't want to deal with something fiddly in the morning before you've had coffee there's a chance you will find them frustrating, and it's a lot of money to sink into something you give up in a few months because you find it too fussy.
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Apr 12, 2021 18:53
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hypnophant posted:The flair neo will give you the best results in that price range with the equipment you already have. Don't bother with the bottomless portafilter accessory for now - you want a pressurized portafilter, like the one the flair neo comes with, to get good results either with the grinder you have or store-ground beans. Later on, if you like, you can upgrade your grinder - the 1zpresso jx-pro is a well-regarded hand grinder for espresso, at around $160 - and then you'd see a benefit from getting the bottomless portafilter. Thank you for your thoughts. I'm intrigued by the robot. I watched hoffman's review of it and the process seems pretty easy and not much fussier than what I was doing with pour over. I'll check his review of the flair neo too so I can see what the process looks like for brewing with it. I find a reliable, manual process more appealing than a fussy and inconsistent automatic one so I might not go with the lesser automatic models.
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Apr 12, 2021 19:01
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Dren posted:Thank you for your thoughts. I'm intrigued by the robot. I watched hoffman's review of it and the process seems pretty easy and not much fussier than what I was doing with pour over. I'll check his review of the flair neo too so I can see what the process looks like for brewing with it. I find a reliable, manual process more appealing than a fussy and inconsistent automatic one so I might not go with the lesser automatic models. The robot does look appealing, and people on hoffman's discord who have them seem to like them a lot. I didn't discuss it because it's more expensive than the budget you mentioned, and the pressurized portafilter is a separate accessory you'd have to buy, unlike the flair which includes it. If you can stretch or save for it, it's probably what I would pick over the flair.
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Apr 12, 2021 19:10
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BrianBoitano posted:If you want $300 including the grinder, and you don't need to make 5 shots in a row, this can be cheaper than the robot: yeah it seemed like the big difference between his reviews of the robot vs. all the others is that the design didn't require you to run a blank shot through or immerse everything in hot water for a while, which sounds extremely attractive to me in terms of "being able to quickly make a shot right after i wake up" but the flair is definitely the cheapest one that still can apparently produce very nice espresso and yeah I'm not sure the 'no preheating' convenience is necessarily worth 150-200 edit: looks like people agree you still have to preheat for light roasts but seems like heat retention is better overall eke out fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Apr 12, 2021 |
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Apr 12, 2021 19:12
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I think the pressurized portafilter on the Flair neo is key if you don't have a great grinder. I really like that Flair sells upgrades too for the future.
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Apr 12, 2021 21:19
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It's only been a month or so since I became a coffee drinker, and mostly I just can't believe how much of my life I wasted before. Here's a debate my friend and I were having: he defines "black" as 'no creamer' but doesn't count sugar, but I always thought it meant 'no creamer/sugar/anything'. It's not a pissing contest: both of us like ours with no creamer but with sugar/splenda. His logic is, "The coffee is still black in color." Imagined fucked around with this message at 14:32 on Apr 13, 2021 |
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Apr 13, 2021 14:25
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He's right. Coffee with nothing in it is called "neat."
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Apr 13, 2021 14:33
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xtal posted:He's right. Coffee with nothing in it is called "neat." literally never heard this before, anywhere, unless we're talking about whiskey to me black coffee is plain brewed coffee
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Apr 13, 2021 14:43
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I wonder if it's a regional thing -- he's from the UK, in Wales, whereas I'm from the southwestern US. To me I get his logic but if I ordered a "black coffee" at any cafe/restaurant I would expect it to be served straight out of the pot with nothing added. I've heard it jokingly said that in the UK you have to say 'no' twice to get no milk, whereas in the US it's 'no' twice to get no sugar.
Imagined fucked around with this message at 14:48 on Apr 13, 2021 |
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Apr 13, 2021 14:45
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Imagined posted:I wonder if it's a regional thing -- he's from the UK, in Wales, whereas I'm from the southwestern US. To me I get his logic but if I ordered a "black coffee" at any cafe/restaurant I would expect it to be served straight out of the pot with nothing added. i think black by default means nothing added, but i've definitely heard people order "black with two sugars" or whatever definitely never heard neat
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Apr 13, 2021 14:47
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As someone who worked in restaurants/did the barista thing the idea of putting anything into a drink that wasn't specifically requested gives makes my eyebrow twitch. If you think its normal for people to just put stuff in your drinks without you specifically requesting it may I suggest you need to stop being such a doormat?
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Apr 13, 2021 14:52
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Imagined posted:It's only been a month or so since I became a coffee drinker, and mostly I just can't believe how much of my life I wasted before. If I asked for black coffee in a diner and was served something with sugar in it, I'd send it back, that's all I know
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Apr 13, 2021 14:57
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In Scotland, if you go into a fish shop to get some fish and chips you have to tell them very quickly that you don’t want salt and vinegar added, otherwise they just pour it on as a matter of course. Never seen a chippy that doesn’t do it that way.
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Apr 13, 2021 14:58
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To me black always meant nothing at all in it, but last year I grabbed a bunch of iced coffees from Starbucks and the iced black I ordered, I noticed the tag said ICED COFFEE SYRUP and I asked if it had sugar in it. They said yeah, when you order iced black coffee now it comes with sugar syrup unless you tell them not to add it  They gave me another one with nothing in it like our lord and savior Hoffman intended, but wtf How many people were getting angry that their coffee was not sweet when they ordered it black?
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Apr 13, 2021 15:25
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i own every Bionicle posted:To me black always meant nothing at all in it, but last year I grabbed a bunch of iced coffees from Starbucks and the iced black I ordered, I noticed the tag said yeah when i'd grab ice coffees from mcdonalds before work years ago, you'd have to specifically ask for 'no liquid sugar' lol
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Apr 13, 2021 15:27
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“Unsweet”
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Apr 13, 2021 15:40
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i own every Bionicle posted:To me black always meant nothing at all in it, but last year I grabbed a bunch of iced coffees from Starbucks and the iced black I ordered, I noticed the tag said yeah this is a starbucks thing i found, and exclusive to their iced coffees. i made them remake my drink every time they added sugar because it's not implied anywhere that it comes with sugar.
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Apr 13, 2021 15:41
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Data Graham posted:“Unsweet” having to specify you want unsweet tea is southern culture
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Apr 13, 2021 15:54
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It has been so long since I've ordered coffee out. I expect sugar in black coffee from mcdonalds or starbucks because they serve charcoal roasts and Americans love sugar. Any actual coffee shop better just give me coffee with nothing added if I order black (they ask if I want room for cream). Neat is for booze and eke out posted:having to specify you want unsweet tea is southern culture that.
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Apr 13, 2021 18:10
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Does anyone have any decaf recommendations?
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Apr 13, 2021 21:37
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Greater Good's Low Strung decaf is good and takes whatever stuff you like to add to it. Reminds me of a diner coffee you'd go mug after mug for.
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Apr 13, 2021 22:35
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aldantefax posted:Greater Good's Low Strung decaf is good and takes whatever stuff you like to add to it. Reminds me of a diner coffee you'd go mug after mug for. The decaf that I use looks a bit darker than the same brand's normal roast. I guess decaf is roasted a bit darker to have that ashen aroma compensate for /mask whatever aromatic losses the occur during decaffeination. And yeah, with that ashen taste it kind of does taste like gas station coffee. Not great, but absolutely okay to satisfy a craving at night.
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Apr 13, 2021 22:49
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Lord Stimperor posted:The decaf that I use looks a bit darker than the same brand's normal roast. I guess decaf is roasted a bit darker to have that ashen aroma compensate for /mask whatever aromatic losses the occur during decaffeination. And yeah, with that ashen taste it kind of does taste like gas station coffee. Not great, but absolutely okay to satisfy a craving at night. decaf also starts darker as a green bean due to the way the processing works, so in theory an identical roast will look darker regardless -- sweetmaria's has a whole writeup about the visual differences for roasting because the color progression is different (and then I think it's also commonly roasted darker)
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Apr 13, 2021 23:12
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when I order a black hole coffee, there better not be any goddamn sweetener.
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Apr 14, 2021 01:31
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eke out posted:decaf also starts darker as a green bean due to the way the processing works, so in theory an identical roast will look darker regardless -- sweetmaria's has a whole writeup about the visual differences for roasting because the color progression is different (and then I think it's also commonly roasted darker) this exactly. a decaf roast will always look darker than the same caf bean roasted to the same level. then on top roasters often over roast them to try and get extra flavour. if you’re in the us or canada and don’t have a good roaster near you with a good decaf (always try to support your local roaster!) then i recommend level ground’s decaf.
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Apr 14, 2021 02:19
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Mr. Mambold posted:when I order a black hole coffee, there better not be any goddamn sweetener. If you order “coffee, large, hot” then you should get exactly what you’ve just asked them to give you. Anything else added makes it coffee plus something and they get to make me another one.
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Apr 14, 2021 04:00
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Mr. Mambold posted:when I order a black hole coffee, there better not be any goddamn sweetener. sugar doesn't make it past the event horizon
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Apr 14, 2021 04:10
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Can anyone give me any ideas as to why my espresso shots seem to be so inconsistent? I'm aiming for 32g from 18g coffee in ~30s but for some reason, it takes a different amount of time +/- at least 5 seconds each time. The beans are exactly the same, the grind size is consistent (I don't change it), the scales seem accurate, I put the exact same amount of beans in, I warm up the machine for the same amount of time, and I have one of those cylindrical tampers where it's got a distributor on one side, and the tamp on the other. I've set the depth for the tamp and haven't changed it between shots, so I have no idea why the shot comes out in such different amount of times each time I do it. The shot seems to drain evenly from both sides of the portafilter as well so it doesn't seem like there's any channelling.
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Apr 14, 2021 09:02
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Aphex- posted:Can anyone give me any ideas as to why my espresso shots seem to be so inconsistent? I'm aiming for 32g from 18g coffee in ~30s but for some reason, it takes a different amount of time +/- at least 5 seconds each time. The beans are exactly the same, the grind size is consistent (I don't change it), the scales seem accurate, I put the exact same amount of beans in, I warm up the machine for the same amount of time, and I have one of those cylindrical tampers where it's got a distributor on one side, and the tamp on the other. I've set the depth for the tamp and haven't changed it between shots, so I have no idea why the shot comes out in such different amount of times each time I do it. The shot seems to drain evenly from both sides of the portafilter as well so it doesn't seem like there's any channelling. Does it taste the same every time? If yes, there's no problem.
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Apr 14, 2021 11:21
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Aphex- posted:Can anyone give me any ideas as to why my espresso shots seem to be so inconsistent? I'm aiming for 32g from 18g coffee in ~30s but for some reason, it takes a different amount of time +/- at least 5 seconds each time. The beans are exactly the same, the grind size is consistent (I don't change it), the scales seem accurate, I put the exact same amount of beans in, I warm up the machine for the same amount of time, and I have one of those cylindrical tampers where it's got a distributor on one side, and the tamp on the other. I've set the depth for the tamp and haven't changed it between shots, so I have no idea why the shot comes out in such different amount of times each time I do it. The shot seems to drain evenly from both sides of the portafilter as well so it doesn't seem like there's any channelling. What machine and grinder? Also the spinny distributors don’t do what you’d expect them to, they only level the top surface and you can still have uneven distribution through the puck. A wdt tool or an even distribution out of the grinder will be more consistent.
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Apr 14, 2021 11:55
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dedian posted:Does it taste the same every time? If yes, there's no problem. There are subtle differences but I don't think I've developed enough of a skill to tell a huge amount. hypnophant posted:What machine and grinder? Machine is a Sage Duo Temp Pro with a Sage the Dose Control Pro Coffee Grinder. The spinny thing has two sides, one is a distributor but the other side is a tamp where you can adjust the depth until you get the required pressure through the puck. I have tried a couple of times to tamp afterwards with the one that comes with the machine but it's made no difference.
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Apr 14, 2021 12:12
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so i have one of those under the breville line although i only use it for drip coffee and pourovers. while it has a range fine enough to handle espresso i think i found the internet consensus was that it just isn’t as consistent as you might want. if you’ve managed to control for everything else i have to imagine that’s what’s going on here. as mentioned though it’s all about how your coffee tastes.
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Apr 14, 2021 12:29
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Aphex- posted:There are subtle differences but I don't think I've developed enough of a skill to tell a huge amount. Tamp pressure/depth don't actually matter very much as coffee grounds are incompressible (for tamping purposes). What matters is having an even distribution of grounds in the puck, with no clumps or voids and consistent density throughout. You would think the distributor would help with this but it doesn't, it will only level the very top surface. If your grinder's output is free from clumps and evenly distributed, that's plenty - but you could also achieve the same with a few taps on the counter or a quick rake with a WDT tool or even the tines of a fork. If your grinder tends to put all the grounds to one side of the basket, however, or if it produces a lot of clumps in its output, you'll want to do a deep WDT in which you stir the entire puck, starting from the bottom and gradually lifting the tool as you stir. All that being said, if you can't taste much of a difference there's not much reason to change your routine just to hit some arbitrary numbers. A 10 second variation in shot times is a pretty big range and there are probably some differences in extraction taking place there, but if the shots taste ok to you then there's no need to chase diminishing returns.
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Apr 14, 2021 13:41
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Thanks for the advice all. I think I was just a bit frustrated seeing it be inconsistent, but most of the time I'm covering it with steamed milk anyway and the taste is pretty good. I'm sure it could be a lot better, but for now it's ok.
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Apr 14, 2021 14:47
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I like making a pit in the grounds and shaking the v60 around, it feels like its doing something and if not it's still satisfying
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Apr 15, 2021 23:04
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