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Hellian absolutely rules.Alhazred posted:Reaper's Gale is, even by malazan standards, an endless slog of misery. Think I mentioned this upthread, but I'm reading Deadhouse Gates to my wife at the moment, and while it may have more high points than Reapers Gale, I still think it's the most depressing - the amount of references to children and babies not just killed but tortured slowly to death is I think much higher than any other book and makes it pretty unpleasant at times. Still a great book, but yeah... I think the point about random cruelty and malice towards those "different" could have been made without quite so many babies on spits, children with multilated faces slowly dying on a cross and Jaghut children with their bones smashed then pinned under rocks, then their father stuck in unending, eternal, parental grief.
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Apr 10, 2021 18:57
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Wolfsheim posted:people love beak but hellian carries that book Huh, I don’t remember that part!
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Apr 10, 2021 18:57
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OneSizeFitsAll posted:Hellian absolutely rules. Deadhouse is a really grim book overall and I think all of that helps to make the fate of the Chain of Dogs not feel like this one off moment of galactic cruelty. The world is a loving lovely nightmare, and you let yourself get your hopes up for these people against all reason, all evidence to the contrary, and you get brought back down hard.
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Apr 11, 2021 00:51
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Worse, it’s our world. Erikson didn’t need to invent things, his background gave him plenty of examples of insane, and unnecessary cruelty we’ve inflicted on one another.
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Apr 11, 2021 09:15
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Josh Christ posted:Deadhouse is a really grim book overall and I think all of that helps to make the fate of the Chain of Dogs not feel like this one off moment of galactic cruelty. The world is a loving lovely nightmare, and you let yourself get your hopes up for these people against all reason, all evidence to the contrary, and you get brought back down hard. True, and the way Coltaine etc are "rewarded" is one the of the grimmest things about it - not necessarily because it's gruesome (though of course it is), but particularly in the terms of the sheer injustice, in light of their insane heroics.
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Apr 11, 2021 11:32
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Wolfsheim posted:people love beak but hellian carries that book Beak is pretty much ruined as a character because god forbid that there was one person in the malazan books that weren't sexually abused.
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Apr 11, 2021 19:49
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Alhazred posted:Beak is pretty much ruined as a character because god forbid that there was one person in the malazan books that weren't sexually abused. Yeah I agree that Erikson over-uses sexual assault in his books. It's one of the main things that make me hesitate in recommending them to people.
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Apr 12, 2021 18:25
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Jaxyon posted:Yeah I agree that Erikson over-uses sexual assault in his books. It's one of the main things that make me hesitate in recommending them to people. A lot of intensely unpleasant stuff happens in this series and it can make it a tough read at times. I’ve re-read these books several times now because I’m insane but it can be a challenge to make it through some stuff even though I get why it’s in there and is valuable to the story.
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Apr 12, 2021 19:56
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(Midnight Tides) Seren Padac's is the one that stands out to me as unnecessary, I don't think you really need it to underline how much despair she's in after Buruk kills himself and the war begins, I don't think you need it in order to establish that she can use Mockra, and I really don't think you need to pump up how great and noble Iron Bars and Corlo are, especially because I don't think they show up again in the main series. (On the other hand, maybe that's why you need it.) I don't know that the trope is overused across the series compared to the other flavors of atrocity he uses (although I haven't done the math and could absolutely be convinced) but at least he doesn't use it in a prurient way. I just finished MT, fittingly enough; this is my third time through the series and it really does read better when you have an idea of when things happen and what the overall structure of the books are, especially because MT is when I feel like the books get less self-contained and more plot threads feel like they're setting up stuff for future books. CaptainRat fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Apr 12, 2021 |
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Apr 12, 2021 20:21
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My favourite part of Beak's story is that of all the possible soldiers to help him come out of his shell, it's Faradan loving Sort.
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Apr 12, 2021 20:31
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CaptainRat posted:(Midnight Tides) Seren Padac's is the one that stands out to me as unnecessary, I don't think you really need it to underline how much despair she's in after Buruk kills himself and the war begins, I don't think you need it in order to establish that she can use Mockra, and I really don't think you need to pump up how great and noble Iron Bars and Corlo are, especially because I don't think they show up again in the main series. (On the other hand, maybe that's why you need it.) I don't know that the trope is overused across the series compared to the other flavors of atrocity he uses (although I haven't done the math and could absolutely be convinced) but at least he doesn't use it in a prurient way. I think i'ts over-used as a means to add "depth and character" to female characters, even though SE is better talking about it than much of the genre...that's a really really low bar to get over. He's one of the few who actually has male characters also be the victims of sexual assault but it's not nearly even and not given the same gravity.
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Apr 13, 2021 00:03
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CaptainRat posted:(Midnight Tides) Seren Padac's is the one that stands out to me as unnecessary, I don't think you really need it to underline how much despair she's in after Buruk kills himself and the war begins, I don't think you need it in order to establish that she can use Mockra, and I really don't think you need to pump up how great and noble Iron Bars and Corlo are, especially because I don't think they show up again in the main series. (On the other hand, maybe that's why you need it.) I don't know that the trope is overused across the series compared to the other flavors of atrocity he uses (although I haven't done the math and could absolutely be convinced) but at least he doesn't use it in a prurient way. To be honest, that’s the one that got me too and I don’t think it really adds to that character’s story very much. Seemed tacked on.
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Apr 13, 2021 00:29
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Jaxyon posted:I think i'ts over-used as a means to add "depth and character" to female characters, even though SE is better talking about it than much of the genre...that's a really really low bar to get over. Yeah, absolutely, grading on a curve means Erikson stands out from the crowd. Even so, he's got a pattern with the trope where the victim is rarely the one who takes retribution. To be fair this fits with the rest of the series, where victims of all types of cruelty are rarely the ones who get to retaliate against the perpetrators, if the perpetrators even face consequences at all (Mallick Rel you motherfucker) but because that's already a pattern with sexual assault specifically in all types of media, where it's a tragic backstory for a woman but ultimately character development for a man, it grates more than, say, the end of the Chain of Dogs or (Reaper's Gale) Quick Ben taking out Sirryn Kanar).
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Apr 13, 2021 01:17
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Shockeh posted:Worse, it’s our world. Erikson didn’t need to invent things, his background gave him plenty of examples of insane, and unnecessary cruelty we’ve inflicted on one another. For all the complaints about violence, including sexual, in Eriksons books, they are relatively tame compared to the last 100 years of human history (excluding Kallor destroying a continent). Cardiac fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Apr 13, 2021 |
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Apr 13, 2021 05:14
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Cardiac posted:For all the complaints about violence including sexual in eriksons boos, it is relatively tame compared to the last 100 years of human history (excluding Kallor destroying a continent). No argument there.
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Apr 13, 2021 05:41
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So that Ten Very Big Books podcast is pretty great. I appreciate the pronunciation guide at the end of the first interview ... but steve, man, please decide between "tisst" and "tighst" b/c he's going long-I in this podcast but someone earlier here posted him going with short-I and no 'e' sound at the end.
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Apr 13, 2021 13:57
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My recollection is he generally goes with the latter (long "i" version) of those. Both are different from what I use, and by the time I learned this and some other correct pronunciations I had wrong, they were too embedded to really change, especially given I had also established them with my wife when reading to her.
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Apr 13, 2021 14:22
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Cardiac posted:For all the complaints about violence, including sexual, in Eriksons books, they are relatively tame compared to the last 100 years of human history (excluding Kallor destroying a continent). Not sure how this relates but if we're gonna do this, the past 100 years of human history is relatively tame in terms of Dragons compared to Erikson's books. 
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Apr 13, 2021 23:23
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dwarf74 posted:So that Ten Very Big Books podcast is pretty great. This is one reason I can't do audio books much. I have every pronounciation from Wheel of Time wrong in my head. Malazan doesn't stand a chance. I am so bad at it that I am not sure I am pronouncing Beak and Fiddler right.
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Apr 14, 2021 02:13
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Spermy Smurf posted:I am so bad at it that I am not sure I am pronouncing Beak and Fiddler right. Bee-ahk Fithler
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Apr 14, 2021 02:53
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Jaxyon posted:Not sure how this relates but if we're gonna do this, the past 100 years of human history is relatively tame in terms of Dragons compared to Erikson's books. Not if you count in Dragoons.
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Apr 15, 2021 20:45
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Jaxyon posted:Yeah I agree that Erikson over-uses sexual assault in his books. It's one of the main things that make me hesitate in recommending them to people. It kind of fades over time for me. I read the complete Malazan over the course of last year and I remember being a bit shocked by all the sexual assault but now I remember the whole 10 books with nothing but fondness.
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May 21, 2021 20:55
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Poor Hedge. Gets repeatedly raped by Detoran and even his squadmates are all "Yeah, he probably likes it?"
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May 21, 2021 22:40
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Hexel posted:It kind of fades over time for me. I read the complete Malazan over the course of last year and I remember being a bit shocked by all the sexual assault but now I remember the whole 10 books with nothing but fondness.  Cardiac posted:Not if you count in Dragoons. My point being is that it's fantasy, realism is out the door and comparing to the real world is kind of silly. It's a book. The author has a choice to what he puts in. Just like people justify rape in GRRM books by saying "well historically that would happen" sure but historically dragons and ice zombies didn't so lets not pretend the historical comparison matters. The author gets to decide how much "real world accuracy" goes on and does it in the modern context. kingturnip posted:Poor Hedge. Yeah male rape is played for laughs more than once and never seems to be used for ~characterization~ purposes. Udinaas is the exception I can think of.
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May 21, 2021 22:48
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I just finished Midnight Tides this morning. I was hesitant going into it. A whole new world? All new characters (except for one)? It was the fastest I've finished a book in the series so far. I absolutely loved it. Might be my favorite so far. Tehol and Bugg's insane conversations rule. I would read entire books of just those two talking.
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May 23, 2021 17:12
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Jaxyon posted:My point being is that it's fantasy, realism is out the door and comparing to the real world is kind of silly. It's a book. The author has a choice to what he puts in. So you are ok with the genocide, torture, murder and cannibalism then?
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May 23, 2021 17:30
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Cardiac posted:So you are ok with the genocide, torture, murder and cannibalism then? No. Where would you get that idea?
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May 24, 2021 23:25
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Jaxyon posted:No. Where would you get that idea? Everyone is saying you are a genocidal maniac...
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May 25, 2021 11:47
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Saying that the author chooses what to write about is not an inherent endorsement of ideas even if you like the work. I like the Wasp Factory but I'm not gonna cut anyone's dick off.
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May 25, 2021 12:30
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Chapter one of The God is Not Willing is currently available for free on the publisher's website: https://www.tor.com/2021/06/01/exce...VW0jTUNVDh-91yo Introduces a bunch of new marines (and one old one), looks promising!
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Jun 2, 2021 21:05
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lol at a bunch of marines arguing over "The Idiot Attack" on Silver lake It's interesting to see the state of the Malazan world ~10 years after TCG. Karsa lives in a hut outside Darujhistan and beats up any would-be followers, which just attracts more of them. Also seems like Moranth munitions haven't been used by Malazans for over 10 years. Presumably the Moranth stopped trading them after Paran raided their warehouse in TCG.
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Jun 2, 2021 22:55
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I barely remember anything from HoC or I guess reaper's gale where Karsa shows up again in Darujhistan. Gonna have to reread everything maybe.
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Jun 2, 2021 22:57
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I liked it! The Marines were the best part of the Malazan books. The dandy Captain is an interesting choice, and while it strayed somewhat into camp I liked that he showed some grit as well.
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Jun 3, 2021 12:25
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Chapter 2 of The God is Not Willing is up for free on Tor's site https://www.tor.com/2021/06/08/excerpts-steven-erikson-malazan-the-god-is-not-willing-chapter-two/ I liked the part where the edgy mage-assassin realized she wasn't a genius for coming up with the idea of being both a mage and assassin, and that the Claw was filled with them
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Jun 9, 2021 06:41
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Chapter Three is also up https://www.tor.com/2021/06/15/excerpts-steven-erikson-malazan-the-god-is-not-willing-chapter-three/
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Jun 16, 2021 07:29
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Thanks for the chapters, they really got me hooked.
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Jun 16, 2021 15:35
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Anyone know how to get a UK ebook copy in the US when this is released? It seems so stupid to have to wait 4 months between the UK and US releases in 2021.
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Jun 16, 2021 16:33
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Wait wtf it comes out next month in the UK? I thought the November publishing date was for everyone. I'm definitely not waiting that long, then.
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Jun 16, 2021 22:49
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They used to be very far apart but as the main ten continued they began to coincide better. No idea why TOR would start sitting on them again. If you're gonna import I strongly recommend Munro's in Victoria BC so you can get them signed by Steve for free.
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Jun 17, 2021 01:58
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I also want the book more than the hardcover, to be honest. Very frustrating that the only way to read it on a Kindle will be to pirate it unless you want to wait 4 extra months.
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Jun 17, 2021 02:54
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