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Namnesor
Jun 29, 2005

Dante's allowance - $100

Dreylad posted:

I hope they keep refining the battle system because Hard mode is my ideal version of the game. Maybe make items limited or equipable or something but if they have the courage to actually push the game more in that direction it'll be better for it imo.

I one-hundred percent agree. Loosening the item restrictions in some way ever-so-slightly is the only change I'd make.

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WaltherFeng
May 15, 2013

50 thousand people used to live here. Now, it's the Mushroom Kingdom.
Having a limited inventory pouch in battles seems like the obvious choice. Just like you have limited slots for materia.

boop the snoot
Jun 3, 2016
It’s beatable without them. Just make a hard mode jr with inventory slots like resident evil for potions.

Blamestorm
Aug 14, 2004

We LOL at death! Watch us LOL. Love the LOL.
My biggest wish would be just to have mana reset to full between battles (and maybe reduce the amount), as I was fine with not using items and managing mana in tough battles, but it was a pain thinking about mana management knowing I'd want to save as much as possible for bosses late in chapters. I'

Marmaduke!
May 19, 2009

Why would it do that!?
In other words you ended up hoarding your mp like a pouch of elixirs

Electric Phantasm
Apr 7, 2011

YOSPOS

It's really nice how the ATB system makes it so my hoarder sense doesn't go off. Might as well use these items now since using them in battle would be a waste of an ATB bar. Wish there was menu healing to speed up the process though.

Doctor_Fruitbat
Jun 2, 2013


Ten max of any given item, have excess items go straight into storage and have a quick inventory refresh from storage occur at save points. This should roughly be standard for RPGs anyway, 99x items is dumb.

Blamestorm
Aug 14, 2004

We LOL at death! Watch us LOL. Love the LOL.

Marmaduke! posted:

In other words you ended up hoarding your mp like a pouch of elixirs

Nah, because there were enough benches around I rarely used them in my first play through, except perhaps the first parts of the game. But I also had foreknowledge in Hard mode about what fights were coming up from the first time I played, so in a part 2 I like the idea of skipping the items but resetting mana so I don’t have to hold onto it because I don’t know how long I have to play before I get it back, especially for boss battles.

OhFunny
Jun 26, 2013

EXTREMELY PISSED AT THE DNC
So PS4 exclusivity ends this week. Any hope of a PC/XBOX announcement sometime later this month or early May?

stev
Jan 22, 2013

Please be excited.



OhFunny posted:

So PS4 exclusivity ends this week. Any hope of a PC/XBOX announcement sometime later this month or early May?

Probably not until after the PS5 version releases. Gotta get that triple dip cash. :eng101:

That Fucking Sned
Oct 28, 2010

Just Andi Now posted:

Yeah. Hard mode felt like how the game was supposed to be played, and normal mode was just letting you familiarize yourself with the mechanics. It even pretty much maxes out your materia and levels for you!

This is why I disagree with Tim Rogers saying “Hard mode is great. This should have been the only difficulty“. If you didn’t know when each chapter ends and you get your MP back, you’d just be hoarding it.

It’s so much fun to play through the game again without having to keep swapping around your materia and weapons to level them up. It’s good that you’re encouraged to do that on your first playthrough because it gives you an incentive to experiment with all of them.

I also love how low the level cap is too. It means you can’t just grind until nothing in the game can touch you. You’re also not going to make the game too easy by accident just because you went out of your way to do sidequests.

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.
Hard mode should absolutely not have been the only difficulty. It's nice that it's balanced but there would be nothing more demoralising than getting the Life materia or something and then never being able to use it or any of the interesting spells or effects because you're hoarding your MP like a chipmunk does nuts before winter.

Like it's fine but ugh the idea of managing my mana across an entire chapter makes me want to turn off the game.

WaltherFeng
May 15, 2013

50 thousand people used to live here. Now, it's the Mushroom Kingdom.

Natural 20 posted:

Hard mode should absolutely not have been the only difficulty. It's nice that it's balanced but there would be nothing more demoralising than getting the Life materia or something and then never being able to use it or any of the interesting spells or effects because you're hoarding your MP like a chipmunk does nuts before winter.

Like it's fine but ugh the idea of managing my mana across an entire chapter makes me want to turn off the game.

It's like playing a Persona game where you have to play an hour or two just to reach a save point and recover your skill points.

Huh, I never though of that before (I've been playing Persona 5 recently for the first time).

History Comes Inside!
Nov 20, 2004




Anyone who says “hard mode” should be the only difficulty in any game is a gatekeeping fuckwit at worst and at best needs to think hard about how accessibility in gaming has already been more of an uphill struggle than it needs to be, and other people being able to play whatever they want under whatever conditions they choose doesn’t take away from your ability to play every game on ‘you only get the real game experience if you play it on Turbo gently caress You with a car battery hooked up to your genitals’ mode if that’s what you think makes a game fun.

Schwartzcough
Aug 12, 2009

Don't tease the Octopus, kids!

History Comes Inside! posted:

Anyone who says “hard mode” should be the only difficulty in any game is a gatekeeping fuckwit at worst and at best needs to think hard about how accessibility in gaming has already been more of an uphill struggle than it needs to be, and other people being able to play whatever they want under whatever conditions they choose doesn’t take away from your ability to play every game on ‘you only get the real game experience if you play it on Turbo gently caress You with a car battery hooked up to your genitals’ mode if that’s what you think makes a game fun.

Have you played Hard Mode in this game? It's kind of a misnomer I found; I don't think it was any harder than normal, really; it was just a different experience. You basically start off with all your abilities and toys in exchange for not being able to use items or restore MP at benches. Which isn't as big a deal as it sounds since you have multiple other ways to restore HP, many of which don't use MP, and you also have your weapons mostly filled out so you get lots of passive MP regen bonuses in addition to getting MP from busting boxes. So people aren't saying that "the only TRUE way to play is on super hard!" They're saying "the game was more fun when you had all your tools available already." People are giving a commentary on effective game design, not on edgelord difficulty dick waving.

Schwartzcough fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Apr 12, 2021

Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004

NANI?

Hard mode assumes you're at max level with all your stuff already unlocked which is the exact opposite of what I enjoy in an RPG lol

Moola
Aug 16, 2006
They should rename Hard Mode to Challenge Mode because that's what it is

Schwartzcough
Aug 12, 2009

Don't tease the Octopus, kids!
Interesting analysis of the architectural design of Midgar in the Remake:

https://www.polygon.com/videos/2021/4/12/22380031/final-fantasy-7-remake-midgar-architecture

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit
Just started this game, I need a break from Bloodborne (even if the sweet blood still sings to me).

Is the primary strategy in this game mashing square until my ATB bar fills, then I do a thrust attack into them to pressure/stagger them, then I go nuts with punisher mode and spam the special ability attacks? Like what other tricks should I aim for?

And when should I block or evade?

Ohtsam
Feb 5, 2010

Not this shit again.

Phobophilia posted:

Just started this game, I need a break from Bloodborne (even if the sweet blood still sings to me).

Is the primary strategy in this game mashing square until my ATB bar fills, then I do a thrust attack into them to pressure/stagger them, then I go nuts with punisher mode and spam the special ability attacks? Like what other tricks should I aim for?

And when should I block or evade?

That’s the basic flow until you expand your moveset.
As a note punisher mode will counterattack melee attacks when you’re blocking, but doesn’t lower ranged damage.

Evade only when you know it’ll be moving away from an attack or you’re activating the deadly dodge materia, there are no iframes. Blocking is a good idea in general especially when dealing with homing attacks and ranged attacks. There is a lot of completely unavoidable damage in the game and blocking is your main tool to mitigate it.

Schwartzcough
Aug 12, 2009

Don't tease the Octopus, kids!

Phobophilia posted:

Just started this game, I need a break from Bloodborne (even if the sweet blood still sings to me).

Is the primary strategy in this game mashing square until my ATB bar fills, then I do a thrust attack into them to pressure/stagger them, then I go nuts with punisher mode and spam the special ability attacks? Like what other tricks should I aim for?

And when should I block or evade?

If you hold down the attack button in punisher mode he does an attack where he jabs the end of his sword into the ground, and this gives him a temporary attack buff.

Punisher mode often does more damage in general, so once you've closed in on an enemy it's often good to swap to punisher and hope to do enough damage to put them in the "pressured" state. THEN you want to use Thrust attack, which greatly increases stagger when they're pressured. Almost every character will get attacks that do extra stragger, and those are all best used when the enemy is pressured. Try hitting enemies with spells or attacks of their elemental weakness to get them pressured.

And yeah, rolling doesn't give invincibility, but it can move you around a bit faster, especially if you're in Punisher mode (but it will take you out of Punisher mode). Still can be faster than swapping back to the other mode when you need to get moving. Otherwise, try to watch for enemy attacks and block a lot; otherwise you'll be eating a lot of damage.

For Barret, hit his "charge up" button during his reload animation- it doesn't really increase his reload animation time, but it'll charge up his triangle attack faster.

Edit: honestly, there's a fair amount of depth to the combat, and recommendations can change depending on what character you're using. For some characters, rolling is worthless, while other characters roll pretty fast and far and it can be great to get away from attacks.

OhFunny
Jun 26, 2013

EXTREMELY PISSED AT THE DNC

That loving Sned posted:

This is why I disagree with Tim Rogers saying “Hard mode is great. This should have been the only difficulty“. If you didn’t know when each chapter ends and you get your MP back, you’d just be hoarding it.

It’s so much fun to play through the game again without having to keep swapping around your materia and weapons to level them up. It’s good that you’re encouraged to do that on your first playthrough because it gives you an incentive to experiment with all of them.

I also love how low the level cap is too. It means you can’t just grind until nothing in the game can touch you. You’re also not going to make the game too easy by accident just because you went out of your way to do sidequests.

This is a serious mischaracterization of what Tim Rogers said. He said that Hard Mode felt like the real mode, not that it should be the only mode.

He very clearly says with a better balanced and finished normal mode the game wouldn't need a hard or easy mode and that the perfect game wouldn't need difficulty modes.

Sakurazuka posted:

Hard mode assumes you're at max level with all your stuff already unlocked which is the exact opposite of what I enjoy in an RPG lol

This is actually something he said would of liked as a menu option. He's probably going to love FFXVI since it's going fully Devil May Cry from what we've seen.

WaltherFeng
May 15, 2013

50 thousand people used to live here. Now, it's the Mushroom Kingdom.
Theres also plenty of unblockable aoe attacks and such that you can dodge but you can't really tell the difference until you get hit.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

OhFunny posted:

This is a serious mischaracterization of what Tim Rogers said. He said that Hard Mode felt like the real mode, not that it should be the only mode.

He very clearly says with a better balanced and finished normal mode the game wouldn't need a hard or easy mode and that the perfect game wouldn't need difficulty modes.

Right which is stupid as hell. That isn't how these things work. Balance is not the be-all/end-all of game design and people who play on Easy mode are not necessarily looking for a balanced experience. The perfect game wouldn't need difficulty modes. It would have a fully customizable difficulty where you can set exactly what you want to be hard and what you want to be easy.

"Perfectly Balanced" assumes everyone has the exact same skill level in all areas which just isn't the case. Someone can be great at twitch gameplay but suck at puzzles. Someone can just be bad at games but likes the story. This is extra true with RPGs where there are a not-insignificant number of people who play them because they like the stories but for a variety of reasons don't like action gameplay and prefer turn-based, or at very least don't want the combat to get in the way of the stuff they like.

ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 08:52 on Apr 13, 2021

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012




ImpAtom posted:

Right which is stupid as hell. That isn't how these things work. Balance is not the be-all/end-all of game design and people who play on Easy mode are not necessarily looking for a balanced experience. The perfect game wouldn't need difficulty modes. It would have a fully customizable difficulty where you can set exactly what you want to be hard and what you want to be easy.

"Perfectly Balanced" assumes everyone has the exact same skill level in all areas which just isn't the case. Someone can be great at twitch gameplay but suck at puzzles. Someone can just be bad at games but likes the story. This is extra true with RPGs where there are a not-insignificant number of people who play them because they like the stories but for a variety of reasons don't like action gameplay and prefer turn-based, or at very least don't want the combat to get in the way of the stuff they like.

This wouldn't be a problem with the perfect video game. It would remove more of the combat as it sees you getting less interested in playing it. And change the story as you get bored on the sixth replay so it stays fresh and interesting every playthrough.

History Comes Inside!
Nov 20, 2004




RareAcumen posted:

This wouldn't be a problem with the perfect video game. It would remove more of the combat as it sees you getting less interested in playing it. And change the story as you get bored on the sixth replay so it stays fresh and interesting every playthrough.

Elentor
Dec 14, 2004

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
I'm honestly just gonna play the next iteration of this on easy or whatever is the equivalent, I liked the combat but not enough to want to play through a bunch of bosses in a row again.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit
Honestly coming off soulsborne controls it's loving me up. Also, why is R1 dash out of combat, but R1 is block in combat, and circle is dodge. Ah. This is going to rewire my brain.

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.

WaltherFeng posted:

It's like playing a Persona game where you have to play an hour or two just to reach a save point and recover your skill points.

Huh, I never though of that before (I've been playing Persona 5 recently for the first time).

Yeah absolutely, but the first thing you when it becomes possible in P5 is snap that in half by equipping SP regeneration accessories so you can have fun using the cool abilities you have.

OhFunny posted:

This is a serious mischaracterization of what Tim Rogers said. He said that Hard Mode felt like the real mode, not that it should be the only mode.

He very clearly says with a better balanced and finished normal mode the game wouldn't need a hard or easy mode and that the perfect game wouldn't need difficulty modes.

Is there like a link or something to exactly what he argues on this? The review is like 4 hours long and I'm not dealing with that horseshit.

Just Andi Now
Nov 8, 2009


Natural 20 posted:

Is there like a link or something to exactly what he argues on this? The review is like 4 hours long and I'm not dealing with that horseshit.

Seems to start right about here (2:22:03 if the timestamp doesn't work)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hu4H5ykBP0I&t=8523s

CottonWolf
Jul 20, 2012

Good ideas generator

Hard mode is a lot more interesting mechanically, and it actually forces you to use your toolset in a way that the lower difficulties don't really. But suggesting is should be the default difficulty setting is stupid. It arguably could be selectable from the off in Part 2, if they let you carry all your materia and levels over, but presumably they won't, so it'll be a NG+ thing there too.

Elentor
Dec 14, 2004

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Just Andi Now posted:

Seems to start right about here (2:22:03 if the timestamp doesn't work)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hu4H5ykBP0I&t=8523s

Man I've never felt so miserable watching content I should be agreeing with, this is so, so, so slow, much like the stuff he's criticizing.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit
Okay I just fought those two sweepers right after biking up to the plate. I mean, I killed them, eventually, after popping a couple of hi-potions. But god drat I'm taking huge hits and constant chips that deplete me hard.

Any survivability tips?

DeathChicken
Jul 9, 2012

Nonsense. I have not yet begun to defile myself.

Always be switching characters as soon as it looks like you've drawn aggro on the person you're controlling. AI controlled allies as a rule take much less damage than you do.

Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!
Is there any way to gear up Barrett and Aerith before the mecha fight just after Rufus.

I like this game, but kind of hate how this game is like "guess what materia you should have equipped next! No, we won't let you change it during a battle. Only change when we say."

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



Disco Pope posted:

Is there any way to gear up Barrett and Aerith before the mecha fight just after Rufus.

I like this game, but kind of hate how this game is like "guess what materia you should have equipped next! No, we won't let you change it during a battle. Only change when we say."

that's in keeping with the spirit of the original, which gave you a prompt to automatically unequip all of their materia before putting you into a back to back double boss fight that prevented 2/3 of your party from using physical attacks

Doctor_Fruitbat
Jun 2, 2013


I was sorely disappointed that that battle didn't take place in a pair of giant, oversized elevators.

Moola
Aug 16, 2006

Doctor_Fruitbat posted:

I was sorely disappointed that that battle didn't take place in a pair of giant, oversized elevators.

:same:

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.

Elentor posted:

Man I've never felt so miserable watching content I should be agreeing with, this is so, so, so slow, much like the stuff he's criticizing.

Jesus christ this is awful to watch.

Okay, bitching about someone reviewing a game better than I could aside.

Broadly I believe the case is this:

1. The act of gathering items through the game by going onto odd paths is disrupting to the narrative of the game itself. Hard mode exists and creates a world where, since you don't have to use items, you can instead just run straight down the corridor and complete the dungeon.

2. The secondary premise is that running through materia menus is additionally boring and disruptive to the game.

3. And the final premise is that the combat system is sufficiently good to support the game alone given all the possible options from the start.

The overall conclusion is that the "real" game that needed to exist was one where all the characters had set loadouts from the start with no MP or healing items.

I have a lot to say about this but I'll get to it later and I kinda want to make sure I'm not misunderstanding what's being said before I get all mad.

Edit: Oh and the corollary of the initial conclusion he reaches from this is that if you instead chose to design normal mode in the fashion dictated by hard mode with some fixes then you wouldn't need modes in the first place. "Dark Souls shouldn't have an easy mode. No game should have a hard mode or an easy mode. The perfect videogame will not need any difficulty modes."

Natural 20 fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Apr 13, 2021

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boop the snoot
Jun 3, 2016
Loadouts is probably the biggest quality of life improvement I would ask for in FF7R2. It’s so tedious as implemented. And will only get more tedious with more characters.

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