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ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016

My Lovely Horse posted:

Subnautica is pretty good, at any rate I played like 6-7 hours in one day, but catching fish is a pain in the arse. There's the grav trap but that almost makes it harder to pick them up, they seem to move more erratically when they're caught in the field. You'd think I could get a rod or a net or something.

There's a reason "even food and water annoy us" stuck around as a thread title for so long. Best way to play subnautica was to turn off the survival stuff and make farms for fun instead.

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Len
Jan 21, 2008

Pouches, bandages, shoulderpad, cyber-eye...

Bitchin'!


Perestroika posted:

Yeah, that's something that almost immediately killed Walking Dead: Saints & Sinners for me. The very first mission you get is from a survivor to go over to her (zombie-infested) house and go get something for her. So you go do that, and it takes quite a while because the game is basically built around carefully avoiding zombies or stealthily taking them down one at a time. Then you come back to her and your reward is... a key to a safe in the exact house you just went to and came back from. So now the game expects you take the exact same extended walk you've already taken just to collect your actual reward.

That's annoying at the best of times, but putting it literally in the first quest of the first area is just :psyduck:.

when i bought into the wow classic hype train with all my friends that was one of the many things that got me

"go here kill x dudes and come back to finish the quest"

"now that you've done that quest i can offer you this one, it's to go to the next area after what you just cleared and kill reskins of the same guys"

"so there's a third quest..."

Kennel
May 1, 2008

BAWWW-UNH!
Borderlands zombie dlc has "collect 10 brains" sidequest (just play the game and you'll soon get it by headshotting zombies)
I did that but didn't return to the quest giver and finished the dlc first.

Follow up quest: collect 25 brains (starting from zero), then 50, 100, 250. If I had returned to the starting spot after reaching the limit, it would have gone swimmingly and I would have probably finished collecting them while beating the story mission.

But of course, it also had an achievement reward, so I went back and grinded those 400 brains like the sucker that I am.

Bussamove
Feb 25, 2006

Subnautica Below Zero, the standalone expansion, does a lot of things wrong but the seatruck module that automatically catches and stores fish in an aquarium to eat later isn’t one of them.

Dienes
Nov 4, 2009

dee
doot doot dee
doot doot doot
doot doot dee
dee doot doot
doot doot dee
dee doot doot


College Slice

Bussamove posted:

Subnautica Below Zero, the standalone expansion, does a lot of things wrong but the seatruck module that automatically catches and stores fish in an aquarium to eat later isn’t one of them.

This would be the place to elaborate on those.

JackSplater
Nov 20, 2014

Metal Coat? It's already active?!

Dienes posted:

This would be the place to elaborate on those.

They got rid of the Seamoth and the Cyclops in favour of the Seatruck and its modules, despite the fact that having more than 1 or 2 modules slows the truck to a crawl. And the seatruck just doesn't have the personality that the other two did.

They kept the jarring visual filter when you switch zones, so you can go from pitch blackness to light blue with perfect visibility by moving one meter.

They slowed everything down. Base movespeed, Seaglide movespeed, Seatruck movespeed. It takes longer to get places, and the world feels smaller regardless.

There's an entire area that has exactly one purpose and no interesting fauna, flora or terrain. And it's fairly large.

There's way, way too much on-land stuff for a sea game. Like a third of the gameplay takes place on land. Which is, of course, below freezing. There's a suit you can get to solve the heat problem mostly, but the game doesn't ever tell you how to get one of the resources for it.

I can't say for sure, but it feels like they nerfed Geothermal generator production while also increasing the scanning room's energy consumption.


Things it does right:

Seatruck aquarium module.
Pinning recipes to your hud.
Regenerating resource nodes.
A massive source of Geothermal vents in a specific area near the surface.

JackSplater has a new favorite as of 16:49 on Apr 13, 2021

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.


Land legs in Subnautica were the worst part, and was restricted to a few key story-locations. Why would anyone want more of that?

Captain Hygiene
Sep 17, 2007

You mess with the crabbo...



My subnautica complaint is that goons praised its underwater spookiness left and right so much that I bought it with zero research, only to drop it upon realizing it's actually a resource & crafting game, which i was worn out on. I guess that's ultimately on me, but there's no way I'm not blaming goons at large :colbert:

Zil
Jun 4, 2011

Satanically Summoned Citrus


Captain Hygiene posted:

My subnautica complaint is that goons praised its underwater spookiness left and right so much that I bought it with zero research, only to drop it upon realizing it's actually a resource & crafting game, which i was worn out on. I guess that's ultimately on me, but there's no way I'm not blaming goons at large :colbert:

It always a safe bet to blame goons tbh.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.

Kennel posted:

Borderlands zombie dlc has "collect 10 brains" sidequest (just play the game and you'll soon get it by headshotting zombies)
I did that but didn't return to the quest giver and finished the dlc first.

Follow up quest: collect 25 brains (starting from zero), then 50, 100, 250. If I had returned to the starting spot after reaching the limit, it would have gone swimmingly and I would have probably finished collecting them while beating the story mission.

But of course, it also had an achievement reward, so I went back and grinded those 400 brains like the sucker that I am.

Compounded by the fact that Zombie TK is tucked away in a far corner of a side zone instead of somewhere less infuriatingly time wasting.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

Don't you tell me my business again.

Morpheus posted:

Baldur's Gate was pretty bad for that. When you reach the titular city it's just six enormous area full of stuff with a vague goal to accomplish and it's just overwhelming, especially as someone who likes to fully explore maps and do everything.

I think some players just like the go anywhere do anything open world style and others like to carve up areas in smaller bites. When I was younger and had more free time, I yearned for more open worlds but these days I kind of want things to progress gradually but still feel expansive.

Stuff like RDR, Fallout, Witcher just breaks my brain anymore. I go a month without playing and forget what the gently caress I was doing or why.

I can see both sides of the argument.

Bussamove
Feb 25, 2006

JackSplater posted:


There's way, way too much on-land stuff for a sea game. Like a third of the gameplay takes place on land. Which is, of course, below freezing. There's a suit you can get to solve the heat problem mostly, but the game doesn't ever tell you how to get one of the resources for it.

The worst part about the heat mechanic is how lazy it is— its more or less the oxygen mechanic reskinned, your O2 meter even swaps for a warmth meter when you’re on land. It depletes and when it gets to zero you start to die. Caves and interiors restore it. You get a suit to mitigate but not eliminate it like O2 tanks.

The suit takes snow stalker fur to make. So I’ll take my knife and kill snow stalkers right? Nope. You either find it in caves or use a robotic spy penguin-like creature to pull tufts off them while alive.

Incidentally, the O2 and warmth meters sharing UI means you’re always toasty warm under water. Even near the freezing surface where poking your head out makes you start freezing to death.

JackSplater
Nov 20, 2014

Metal Coat? It's already active?!

Bussamove posted:

The worst part about the heat mechanic is how lazy it is— its more or less the oxygen mechanic reskinned, your O2 meter even swaps for a warmth meter when you’re on land. It depletes and when it gets to zero you start to die. Caves and interiors restore it. You get a suit to mitigate but not eliminate it like O2 tanks.

And there's a food you can find in said caves that restores a bunch of heat, and also food and water on survival, for a fairly small amount of inventory space. It's one of the best foods until lategame, and it's everywhere on land.

Oh, and being on the new vehicle (entirely open air - basically a hovering motorcycle) fully restores your heat, just like entering a sea vehicle restores your oxygen.

Bussamove
Feb 25, 2006

The snowfox is so floaty and feels bad to control. It really should have been a little tracked vehicle or something with a cab instead-- something that looks like it could actually plow through the snow instead of a foldable little hover-bike.

Phigs
Jan 23, 2019

Captain Hygiene posted:

My subnautica complaint is that goons praised its underwater spookiness left and right so much that I bought it with zero research, only to drop it upon realizing it's actually a resource & crafting game, which i was worn out on. I guess that's ultimately on me, but there's no way I'm not blaming goons at large :colbert:

It is very spooky though. As someone who doesn't take well to the sea I had to return it.

oh dope
Nov 2, 2006

No guilt, it feeds in plain sight
I'm trying to get into Horizon Zero Dawn again, but I'm having a hard time giving a poo poo about these Nora people. They spend the first couple hours of the game treating Aloy, a lonely and confused child, like the biggest piece of poo poo in the world because of "tribal laws", and now I'm just supposed to automatically care about all this bad stuff that's happening to them. It seems just and fair that their world is falling apart. gently caress em.

Also, there's cool bits and pieces of world building, but most of it is not very compelling. There's not a lot to sink your teeth into. There's a bunch of (thus far) meaningless proper nouns and character design decisions, and it's all tenuously connected.

Sally
Jan 9, 2007


Don't post Small Dash!
i'm just getting into H:ZD myself. just got out of the starting area and into the game proper... i get why they did why they did. it helped entrench Aloy as an outsider. disconnected from the Nora at large. Not super up on tribal law and not really bound by their tradition. there are moments of genuine compassion that help tether her to them of course... the guy that trades with outsiders, Teb, Zala, that one matriarch... and of course Rost, who really valued the Nora and respects their laws. so far i've found it a really interesting and complex relationship for the protagonist to explore.

StandardVC10
Feb 6, 2007

This avatar now 50% more dark mode compliant
My current Horizon Zero Dawn gripe is with a late-game plot thing. You anger one of the tribal factions, and the game tells you that you should wear a disguise around them. Except that only applies in one specific town - there's a bunch of other outposts associated with the faction that don't care. And it doesn't actually make them attack you or anything. The game just won't let you go into the town unless you've got this specific armor equipped. It's very weird and doesn't feel fully implemented, which is odd because the game generally has a lot of polish.

Captain Hygiene
Sep 17, 2007

You mess with the crabbo...



StandardVC10 posted:

My current Horizon Zero Dawn gripe is with a late-game plot thing. You anger one of the tribal factions, and the game tells you that you should wear a disguise around them. Except that only applies in one specific town - there's a bunch of other outposts associated with the faction that don't care. And it doesn't actually make them attack you or anything. The game just won't let you go into the town unless you've got this specific armor equipped. It's very weird and doesn't feel fully implemented, which is odd because the game generally has a lot of polish.

Yeah, that feels extremely half-baked since (as far as I can remember) nothing else in the game makes you hide who you are, and it amounts to a domino mask hiding your identity when pretty much everyone else in the game is instantly like "HEY, AREN'T YOU THAT HUNTER WHO'S BEEN loving UP MACHINES EVERYWHERE??" when they meet you.

Zil
Jun 4, 2011

Satanically Summoned Citrus


I think it was only done if you advance the story without completing a pretty big lore sidequest there. I mean it is kinda a kludge as that quest feels like it should be part of the main story line.

Nuebot
Feb 18, 2013

The developer of Brigador is a secret chud, don't give him money
So I think Kingdom Hearts 2 is just kind of not good. But the real like, lovely cherry on top of it all is Anti-Form. It's like, explicitly just a punishment for using a system you literally have to use to get stronger and learn several near mandatory skills and the only way to negate it even slightly is to reach the end of the game. Anyway, this complaint is brought to you by me turning into anti-form five times in a single boss fight, this game is stupid.

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

Nuebot posted:

So I think Kingdom Hearts 2 is just kind of not good. But the real like, lovely cherry on top of it all is Anti-Form. It's like, explicitly just a punishment for using a system you literally have to use to get stronger and learn several near mandatory skills and the only way to negate it even slightly is to reach the end of the game. Anyway, this complaint is brought to you by me turning into anti-form five times in a single boss fight, this game is stupid.

the chances of it popping skyrocket if you try to active Drive against Org XIII members. to my knowledge this is never explained anywhere

Nuebot
Feb 18, 2013

The developer of Brigador is a secret chud, don't give him money

Oxxidation posted:

the chances of it popping skyrocket if you try to active Drive against Org XIII members. to my knowledge this is never explained anywhere

It also increases against bosses in general. And your likelihood of it goes up every time you use any of the non-final forms. The only way to reduce your "anti-form points" is to either go into anti-form, or go into final form. It's relatively rare to see it outside of boss fights, but it sucks to just have a mechanic like this that exists solely to punish the player for using a mechanic they're taught to use. Especially since anti-form is basically a death sentence in most cases what with not being able to heal or use reaction commands.

BioEnchanted
Aug 9, 2011

He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.

Sally posted:

i'm just getting into H:ZD myself. just got out of the starting area and into the game proper... i get why they did why they did. it helped entrench Aloy as an outsider. disconnected from the Nora at large. Not super up on tribal law and not really bound by their tradition. there are moments of genuine compassion that help tether her to them of course... the guy that trades with outsiders, Teb, Zala, that one matriarch... and of course Rost, who really valued the Nora and respects their laws. so far i've found it a really interesting and complex relationship for the protagonist to explore.

To be fair, there is a really satisfying scene towards the end involving the Nora that's really fun to watch after an entire game of them being The Absolute Worst.

moosecow333
Mar 15, 2007

Super-Duper Supermen!
Finally finished Space Crew and there are some other things that bugged me about the game.

The pacing was pretty slow - I didn't spend a lot of time grinding missions but it still took me about 35 missions to beat the game as opposed to Bomber Crew's ~20ish. This wouldn't be a big problem but most missions boiled down to 'Go to this area and kill everyone, maybe pick something up, return to base' so I got pretty burned out at the end.

I'm also not a massive fan of the final mission. After you destroy the enemy home world their moon reveals itself to be the queen who teleports to Earth. I was getting excited for a final boss fight but as soon as you show up the game just tells you to teleport inside the boss and self destruct your ship. What really annoyed me was that since the game was so much easier than Bomber Crew I never put more escape pods in my ship because I literally never needed to, so having that sprung on me at the very last second was annoying.

Granted, the only thing I think this changes is if there is an X or a Check Mark next to their name on the final screen, but I'd be nice if my guys got to live.

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007
i ran through the 2016 ratchet & clank game in preparation for rift apart and man, this thing really suffered from being both a remake of the series debut and a tie-in for the awful movie. weak gun selection, no customization (dressing ratchet up in different armor sets was great in the other games), basic level design, and there's almost no connective tissue between stages in the latter half of the game because it's all part of the movie instead. no wonder it didn't leave any lasting impression on me the first time around

Karanas
Jul 17, 2011

Euuuuuuuugh

Oxxidation posted:

i ran through the 2016 ratchet & clank game in preparation for rift apart and man, this thing really suffered from being both a remake of the series debut and a tie-in for the awful movie. weak gun selection, no customization (dressing ratchet up in different armor sets was great in the other games), basic level design, and there's almost no connective tissue between stages in the latter half of the game because it's all part of the movie instead. no wonder it didn't leave any lasting impression on me the first time around

So would you say that other recentish rachet & clank games are a lot better? I haven't played the series since the PS2 days and tried the 2016 game when it was offered for free. All I could think about was just how outdated it all felt.

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

Karanas posted:

So would you say that other recentish rachet & clank games are a lot better? I haven't played the series since the PS2 days and tried the 2016 game when it was offered for free. All I could think about was just how outdated it all felt.

i only played the first three, i heard the series started to get worn out by entry 5 or so. the 2016 one is not great, though. not bad! but not great.

the second and third had more tools, more options, better writing (though it's still saturday cartoon fare), and a ton of little hidden missions that mostly amounted to "you can blow up absolutely everything, even the things you didn't think the developers had fully modeled"

it's pretty clear the 2016 reboot was developed as a graphical showcase and movie tie-in first and foremost. it's still a decent few hours of blowing things up, and the constant avalanche of bolt pickups keeps the lizard brain nice and satiated, but it's pretty barebones past the graphics and animation updates

Lunar Suite
Jun 5, 2011

If you love a flower which happens to be on a star, it is sweet at night to gaze at the sky. All the stars are a riot of flowers.
My biggest gripe with Subnautica: Below Zero is that they removed the amazing synergy between lore, gameplay and story the first one had.
The original Subnautica was a darkly comedic struggle for survival on an alien world, where the only way forward was to rake through little, still burning bits of the enormous ship you came in - which got owned all the way into the ocean. You know you're all alone, you know there's at least one species/robot/living gun out there that hates you, you know nobody's gonna give you a hand. When you build the escape rocket at the end, you might actually hesitate to leave the planet you conquered, bit by bit. Until you remember the fabricator has no recipe for soft toilet paper, anyway.

In Below Zero (as of the latest Early Access Update), you're just kind of on The Worst Road Trip ever. Why did all of Alterra, a pan-galactic Evil Corporation™, leave the planet in a hurry after a couple setbacks? Why, knowing that the place is full of big creepy crawlies, do you still find nothing more than a Stasis Rifle (not that I want to hurt the <beautiful/terrifying> creatures of 4546B, just a lore justification why EvilCorp brought a stasis stick to a planet full of swallow-you-in-one-gulp leviathans). Why didn't you think of bringing any blueprints along, instead someone stealing Alterra's designs? I don't hate the adventure of Robin Ayou, Space Raccoon, but on balance, the big great quality of life improvements in Below Zero are counterbalanced by a much weaker story.

Story spoilers for Below Zero incoming:
Also, for how much time you spend with Al-An, they're... not much of a character? There doesn't appear to be much of an alien-ness to them, they're just a deep-voiced british person hanging out in your head, a little miffed they can't get into the space WiFi either. They don't freak out that you need sleep, they don't worry about you getting chowed on, they don't comment on what it's like to exist in a human body rather than their purpose-grown architect vessel, they don't seem to miss the radio-wave sense that was how they interfaced with their stuff in the first game (or, given that forcefields still power down on approach, maybe they just have that?). Both Robin's sister, who is the catalyst for her coming to 4546B, and Al-An, don't really seem like parts of the game. They're a side thing to your scan - build - dive gameplay loop, and seem more to distract from it than to add to it.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!
Bravely Default 2 gives your party members an explicit 'Chance of Being Targeted' stat. It works pretty simply: heavier armor has a greater chance of being targeted, so the game will naturally skew towards the tank being hit more; meanwhile, other characters get hit less often, but for greater damage.

Except that it's not really as straightforward a stat as that. For some reason my Bard has a greater chance of getting hit than any other party member just natively, to a degree that I can't actually make up by fiddling with equipment on either end.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Cleretic posted:

Bravely Default 2 gives your party members an explicit 'Chance of Being Targeted' stat. It works pretty simply: heavier armor has a greater chance of being targeted, so the game will naturally skew towards the tank being hit more; meanwhile, other characters get hit less often, but for greater damage.

Except that it's not really as straightforward a stat as that. For some reason my Bard has a greater chance of getting hit than any other party member just natively, to a degree that I can't actually make up by fiddling with equipment on either end.

it's his personality

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

Tunicate posted:

it's his personality

I'm worried that, because you got the pronoun right, this is actually a thing and Elvis is just more prone to getting hit.

Not a good thing, since he's the only one that starts as a mage rather than as a freelancer.

moosecow333
Mar 15, 2007

Super-Duper Supermen!
Find me one video game bard you haven’t wanted to punch in the face.

Ambaire
Sep 4, 2009

by Shine
Oven Wrangler

moosecow333 posted:

Find me one video game bard you haven’t wanted to punch in the face.

Leliana, from Dragon Age: Origins.

Kay Kessler
May 9, 2013

The bard from nwn1 was a decent enough character.

Also, while Divinity OS2 doesn't have a bard class, Lhose is a bard as an occupation and she's alright.

christmas boots
Oct 15, 2012

To these sing-alongs 🎤of siren 🧜🏻‍♀️songs
To oohs😮 to ahhs😱 to 👏big👏applause👏
With all of my 😡anger I scream🤬 and shout📢
🇺🇸America🦅, I love you 🥰but you're freaking 💦me 😳out
Biscuit Hider

moosecow333 posted:

Find me one video game bard you haven’t wanted to punch in the face.

Ok yes, but I can’t stay mad at Dandelion and the desire always passes quickly

Philippe
Aug 9, 2013

(she/her)

christmas boots posted:

Ok yes, but I can’t stay mad at Dandelion and the desire always passes quickly

I'm very happy that Jaskier is as obnoxiously likeable in the show as in the game.

DrBouvenstein
Feb 28, 2007

I think I'm a doctor, but that doesn't make me a doctor. This fancy avatar does.
In Control, the Shum game takes too long when you fail (I know, git gud and don't fail.)

It has to load the game, since it's functionally like transporting to a new location, then if you fail, it re-loads the place you're at. If you re-try the game, repeat the loading process.

It should give a quick option when you fail to just restart the challenge while it's already loaded to cut down on several minutes of waiting.

Captain Hygiene
Sep 17, 2007

You mess with the crabbo...



DrBouvenstein posted:

In Control, the Shum game takes too long when you fail (I know, git gud and don't fail.)

It has to load the game, since it's functionally like transporting to a new location, then if you fail, it re-loads the place you're at. If you re-try the game, repeat the loading process.

It should give a quick option when you fail to just restart the challenge while it's already loaded to cut down on several minutes of waiting.

That really ticked me off too, how is having a quick restart option before the reload not the first idea that comes to mind the instant you sit through the loading screen twice?

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Captain Hygiene
Sep 17, 2007

You mess with the crabbo...



For my own complaint, there's a really weird map decision in Horizon Zero Dawn: you can buy maps that outline the general areas in which specific collectibles are hidden. The problem is, the map just shows general icons rather than the outlined area unless you're zoomed in about 2/3 of the way, hiding all the collectibles among all the fifty million other map icons. Kind of a problem if you want to look at things from a general overview level rather than zooming way in and slowly scrolling around!

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