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Sentinel Red posted:I'd say actual fans of the character would rather not see him at all than a lovely version that doesn't do him a molecule of justice. We're getting into who counts as a real fan here, so I'm gonna dip out of this one.
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Apr 13, 2021 19:22
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I feel like Cassandra Cain in Birds of Prey is a good counter example.
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Apr 13, 2021 19:39
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She should have been called Stephanie Brown
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Apr 13, 2021 19:52
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John Wick of Dogs posted:She should have been called Stephanie Brown Would have fit better, but just making her an original character would have been better than tying her to any of the Bat Girls. Then it's less weird when she more or less becomes Harley's sidekick.
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Apr 13, 2021 20:00
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I don't really know the character, but I don't really see any reason why they can't retcon in her comics backstory or some version of it subsequently. "She gets kidnapped and brainwashed to be an assassin" is a pretty easy route to go if they wanted it. Or "her real, evil parents programmed her with fighting skills as a sleeper agent (since she's a foster kid in the movie)", etc etc. You can easily set up an eventual route where she gets with Batman, which creates interesting dynamics between Harley and the Bat Family. Fangz fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Apr 13, 2021 |
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Apr 13, 2021 20:06
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Vince MechMahon posted:We're getting into who counts as a real fan here, so I'm gonna dip out of this one. Probably for the best. Maybe you're right though and, say, Renee Montoya fans would have loved it if the female detective in The Dark Knight who sells out to the mob and causes the assistant DA to be killed actually *was* Renee as opposed to Major Crimes Cop #2. Sure, she's a cowardly scumbag in it but at least she's in the film for a couple of scenes, right?
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Apr 13, 2021 20:15
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Fangz posted:I don't really know the character, but I don't really see any reason why they can't retcon in her comics backstory or some version of it subsequently. "She gets kidnapped and brainwashed to be an assassin" is a pretty easy route to go if they wanted it. Or "her real, evil parents programmed her with fighting skills as a sleeper agent (since she's a foster kid in the movie)", etc etc. She didn't just growing up as an assassin, but as one so hyper focused on fighting that they neglected to teach her any other socialization, to the extent that she was mute for a long time. Overcoming that brainwashing and learning to interact with people like a human instead of a killing machine is her major story arc. Sure, you could come up with a way for her to become an assassin in the movie universe, but having her start off as the chatty pick pocket who gets a surrogate mother in Harley is already a huge departure. Granted I don't really expect them to figure out what they are doing with Batman in that continuity any time soon, so it likely doesn't matter anyway. To my original point, she was a fine character in Birds of Prey that was made awkward by giving her a familiar comics name that had nothing to do with her.
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Apr 13, 2021 20:27
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Sentinel Red posted:Probably for the best. Maybe you're right though and, say, Renee Montoya fans would have loved it if the female detective in The Dark Knight who sells out to the mob and causes the assistant DA to be killed actually *was* Renee as opposed to Major Crimes Cop #2. Sure, she's a cowardly scumbag in it but at least she's in the film for a couple of scenes, right? If other than the corruption she was exactly like Renee visually and attitude wise I wouldn't have minded this. But I guess I'm not a true fan. I also didn't mind any of the changes made in the Joker, but maybe they should have called that something else because it might have upset the real fans? If they didn't want to associate Eckhart with Bullock they shouldn't have had him be a sloppy detective in a fedora and overcoat with a crude yet sardonic sense of humor.
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Apr 13, 2021 20:44
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Aphrodite posted:Nobody was talking about AoS. They specifically said movies. Keep up. Vince brought up the show.
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Apr 13, 2021 20:53
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My baseless assumption about Shazam 2: Electric Magic Boogaloo using an original villain, is because the name Isis is a no go.
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Apr 13, 2021 21:14
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Wouldn't Isis more likely be in the Black Adam movie?
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Apr 13, 2021 21:20
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Vince MechMahon posted:If other than the corruption she was exactly like Renee visually and attitude wise I wouldn't have minded this. But I guess I'm not a true fan. I also didn't mind any of the changes made in the Joker, but maybe they should have called that something else because it might have upset the real fans? And that is where we differ, Vince. If they're not going to remain true in spirit, personally I'd rather they just didn't bother. Killing Bullock before he has a chance to develop and redeem himself, having Montoya in Maroni's pocket and selling out her colleagues, having a Cassandra Cain who is so far removed from the character people loved in the first place as to more or less be someone else...I just find it lame, it's the worst kind of low effort fan service. "Look, it's that thing! Sure, it's nothing actually like the thing beyond its name and a superficial visual level but hey! Thing! They're here!" For example, I doubt anyone minded Flass in Batman Begins. Visually, he was nothing like Flass from the comic - indeed, he was basically Eckhart 2.0, another schlub cop - but he absolutely was Flass where it counted, character-wise. And that's all I'm saying. As long as a character is (reasonably) in keeping with the spirit of the original in service to the story being told, that's what I'm looking for in an adaptation. And conversely, having Bullock be onscreen only to do some don's dirty work and die, the end would not bring me joy. [insert 'furious 1000 word rant about why Keanu-Conjob is straight up trash because he actually learns his lesson at the end of the film and quits smoking instead of ploughing on through 3 packs of Silk Cut a day like an idiot champ' here]
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Apr 13, 2021 21:25
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I think where we differ is the core of how we look at the movies. l'm never expecting a 1:1 translation unless it's Sin City and that's the gimmick. I look at all movies as Elseworlds. They're different takes on existing characters, with any luck by a creative team that has something interesting to say with those characters, even if they're changed from their "true" versions. Corrupt Burton-Verse Bullock who's a corrupt rear end in a top hat is more interesting to me, and due to his name and that little slice of recognition, makes me just a sliver more invested than some new guy named Eckhart, when for the purposes of the movie, 8/10 things about those characters are already identical. You can certainly go too far and make it ridiculous, like the previously mentioned Cassandra Caine in Birds of Prey. That one's a real head scratcher even to me. And there's certainly times where you can add in a new character to fill a niche. But generally I just prefer seeing versions of characters I'm familiar with, whether they're altered or almost the same. The more major the character the longer the list of things I want to see becomes, but my list is probably different than anyone elses.
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Apr 13, 2021 21:58
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They tried it with Jimmy Olsen and it didn't go down too well.
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Apr 14, 2021 00:04
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Karloff posted:They tried it with Jimmy Olsen and it didn't go down too well. 
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Apr 14, 2021 00:11
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John Wick of Dogs posted:Wouldn't Isis more likely be in the Black Adam movie? Current speculation is that she is and Sarah Shahi is playing her
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Apr 14, 2021 00:19
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What they did with Jimmy was dumb but only because Jenny was already those movies version of Jimmy. They just didn't give her that last name. It was Eckhart all over again!
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Apr 14, 2021 01:25
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I think there's definitely a "if you're going to change everything about them, why are you insisting on using that character" line, and it's important to realize when you've gone over it and it's time to just give them a new name and be done with it.
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Apr 14, 2021 05:29
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They have Isis on Legends of Tomorrow, but just call her Zari.
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Apr 14, 2021 10:11
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Gotham had Flass but called him Bullock. They also could have called Eckhart Flass, now that I think of it. And Batman Begins had Flass but had him dress and look like Bullock.
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Apr 14, 2021 14:54
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEE4RO-_jug
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Apr 14, 2021 19:01
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THEY'RE GOING TO SPACE HOLY gently caress
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Apr 14, 2021 19:25
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The end of that trailer literally knocked me on my rear end, what a loving series
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Apr 14, 2021 19:26
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i've never wanted anything more in my entire life and i had no idea up until i watched that trailer
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Apr 14, 2021 19:30
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I cannot believe this is a series where the first movie revolved around stealing some VHS players from a semi What an utterly magnificent and stupid series 
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Apr 14, 2021 19:33
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I think the new character/old character royalty thing is a bit of a complicated knot of weirdness. There is the situation with Killer Frost in the Flash show where they used a different character alias for Killer Frost. The even more egregious one was them having Jason Rusch appear briefly but having some other character play Firestorm even though that character has exactly the same characteristics as Rusch (but they gave him a completely original name which just felt like they used the exact same character but changed the name around to avoid paying royalties). Then the whole thing about "derivative character" came out about having a character share the same characteristics but changed just enough as to say it is an original character. One of the biggest ones I can think of, and one that is kind of weird because they changed the already given name to another already given name, is Ned Leeds, who is done to the core Ganke, in the recent Spiderman movies. The whole thing felt like they didn't want to pay Bendis or something.
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Apr 14, 2021 20:16
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Madkal posted:I think the new character/old character royalty thing is a bit of a complicated knot of weirdness. There is the situation with Killer Frost in the Flash show where they used a different character alias for Killer Frost. The even more egregious one was them having Jason Rusch appear briefly but having some other character play Firestorm even though that character has exactly the same characteristics as Rusch (but they gave him a completely original name which just felt like they used the exact same character but changed the name around to avoid paying royalties). Then the whole thing about "derivative character" came out about having a character share the same characteristics but changed just enough as to say it is an original character. There are two Killer Frosts in the comics, the CW version is based off the latter version. When the writer who created her, Sterling Gates, filed for royalties, CW told him she was a derivative character of the original and he wasn't entitled to royalties since he didn't creator. He then contacted Gerry Conway about it as he created the original version. Conway filed and the CW told him she was not the version he created and thus was not entitled to any royalties. The CW spent a few weeks essentially telling both writers that neither of them had created the character. They eventually folded and I believe both writers received their owed royalties.
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Apr 14, 2021 20:23
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And now Sterling Gates writes for The Flash so I guess there were no hard feelings.
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Apr 14, 2021 20:53
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#JusticeForHan
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Apr 14, 2021 20:54
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Where’s Shaw he’s family now.
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Apr 14, 2021 20:54
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They’re gonna bring back Gal Gadot then, right? It’s not like they can’t afford her or that death means anything in this series. Bring her back!
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Apr 14, 2021 21:21
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Are we sure they're going to space there and not being dropped into water in a submarine? The craft they're in looks more submarine than spaceship and aren't those diving suits they're wearing?
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Apr 14, 2021 21:26
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Is Hobbes and Shaw going to continue as it's own thing? Cause they better all get back together for the finale, Fast 10: Your Seatbelts
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Apr 14, 2021 21:39
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John Wick of Dogs posted:Is Hobbes and Shaw going to continue as it's own thing? I'd say that's the stupidest thing I saw all day but I watched that trailer above so I can't.
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Apr 14, 2021 21:49
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Vince MechMahon posted:Are we sure they're going to space there and not being dropped into water in a submarine? The craft they're in looks more submarine than spaceship and aren't those diving suits they're wearing? It's home brew, but they are definitely on a space shuttle.
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Apr 14, 2021 22:33
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howe_sam posted:It's home brew, but they are definitely on a space shuttle. Well, gently caress yeah. Hope the post credits teaser is Riddick.
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Apr 14, 2021 22:36
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God drat I love those movies. It's just such crazy stupid fun. I'm all for it. And let's go Helen Mirren drifting! Endless Mike posted:#JusticeForHan I really wonder how they either explain him being alive. Like a while movie was about getting revenge on the guy who killed him. They might owe Shaw an apology
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Apr 14, 2021 22:47
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Digital Jedi posted:God drat I love those movies. It's just such crazy stupid fun. I'm all for it. Nah Shaw at the very least absolutely thought he was killing him.
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Apr 14, 2021 23:06
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John Wick of Dogs posted:Fast 10: Your Seatbelts  Also, Han is obviously a time traveller. They're knocking the time travel sequel and the space sequel out at the same time.
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Apr 15, 2021 21:58
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I feel like in that trailer the most unbelievable thing is still Vin Diesel and John Cena being brothers.
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Apr 15, 2021 23:22
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