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MarquiseMindfang posted:Pretty sure Odin's remark there is about Redcloak's state of mind. I was thinking something along those lines, but nowhere near as clearly.
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Apr 12, 2021 22:00
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When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail = you're universally applying the one solution you know how to use, even when it's inappropriate so When all you have is a nail, everything looks like a hammer = you have a problem but no means to solve it, so you'll try anything that remotely seems like it'll work Durkon isn't using the method to deal with Redcloak that Thor originally recommended, but Thor won't second-guess him because he knows it's a tricky problem and they're desperate to do whatever it takes to solve it.
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Apr 12, 2021 22:03
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In some sense the Gate is a nail, right? There's a magical patch over the holes in reality and the Gates are like nails keeping the patch in place. Maybe that's how Odin means it - all they have left is one nail.
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Apr 13, 2021 00:45
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What if the nail is lawful good but the hammer is chaotic evil?
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Apr 13, 2021 13:20
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rocketrobot posted:What if the nail is lawful good but the hammer is chaotic evil? I believe in this scenario the hammer will hit everything BUT the nail, causing the nail immense distress at the hammer not doing its job properly. Sky Shadowing fucked around with this message at 13:48 on Apr 13, 2021 |
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Apr 13, 2021 13:43
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rocketrobot posted:What if the nail is lawful good but the hammer is chaotic evil? Then what is true neutral? A plank?
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Apr 13, 2021 14:11
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Nenonen posted:Then what is true neutral? A plank?
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Apr 13, 2021 14:12
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Sky Shadowing posted:I believe in this scenario the hammer will hit everything BUT the nail, causing the nail immense distress at the hammer not doing its job properly. Highly accurate response to my joke post
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Apr 13, 2021 14:29
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Raenir Salazar posted:He did forget the exact significance as to why Greenhilt is the larger threat than the Paladins. There is literally no reason why Greenhilt should be a larger threat to him than the paladins, other than the fact that he's one of the main characters we've been following and the paladins are not. It wasn't a misdirection, what the MitD said was absolutely, 100% correct.
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Apr 13, 2021 15:01
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Clarste posted:There is literally no reason why Greenhilt should be a larger threat to him than the paladins, other than the fact that he's one of the main characters we've been following and the paladins are not. It wasn't a misdirection, what the MitD said was absolutely, 100% correct. I'm not sure what a misdirection has to do with anything; the point was to point out that while Redcloak remembered that he really should kill Roy for some reason he couldn't when prompted remember why when trying to convince Xykon. The point being that Redcloak isn't that detail oriented to remember Nale.
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Apr 13, 2021 15:22
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Gnoman posted:Pretty sure it isn't, because Rich hasn't read Discworld. Not only that, but he actively avoids reading it because he doesn't want to be influenced. OTOH, those posts are from 6 years and 12 years ago, respectively. He might have read Pratchett since then. Sky Shadowing posted:I believe in this scenario the hammer will hit everything BUT the nail, causing the nail immense distress at the hammer not doing its job properly. See, this is how you alignment-post.
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Apr 13, 2021 18:11
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Sky Shadowing posted:I believe in this scenario the hammer will hit everything BUT the nail, causing the nail immense distress at the hammer not doing its job properly. 
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Apr 13, 2021 18:37
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PMush Perfect posted:Only if a dab is chaotic neutral We bringing glue into this?
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Apr 13, 2021 19:04
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SlothfulCobra posted:We bringing glue into this? I think you'll find that the glue is stronger than the alignment system it's holding together.
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Apr 13, 2021 19:22
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SlothfulCobra posted:We bringing glue into this? The Gorilla Glue gorilla is Lawful Evil.
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Apr 13, 2021 20:27
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Raenir Salazar posted:I'm not sure what a misdirection has to do with anything; the point was to point out that while Redcloak remembered that he really should kill Roy for some reason he couldn't when prompted remember why when trying to convince Xykon. The point being that Redcloak isn't that detail oriented to remember Nale. Well, my point was that there actually is no particular reason why he should kill Roy. It's not that he forgot, he just realized on thinking about it that Greenhilt wasn't as important as he thought.
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Apr 13, 2021 20:56
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Clarste posted:Well, my point was that there actually is no particular reason why he should kill Roy. It's not that he forgot, he just realized on thinking about it that Greenhilt wasn't as important as he thought. Actually no. Redcloak absolutely decides Roy needs to die and is a threat.
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Apr 13, 2021 21:02
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It's basically the same as why Redcloak tried to murder Durkon on sight and had to be talked down before negotiations could even get started: anyone he can identify as definitely working to thwart their goals, he wants to murder on general principle. Even if they're not a huge threat, he sees no reason why he shouldn't take a few extra minutes to exterminate any potential obstacle. He's always giving it his all to kill whoever threatens his personal goals. He knows the Order is trying to keep Team Evil away from the Gates now, and that's all the reason he needs to murder them, whether they're strong enough to be a serious challenge or not. Xykon, on the other hand, has no problem letting someone go if they're not in his immediate way, he doesn't feel like they're a serious threat, and he doesn't feel like it'll be particularly fun or amusing. When he met Roy at Azure City, he straight-up told Roy to come back later when he was high enough level for a proper climatic boss fight.
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Apr 13, 2021 21:47
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The only time Xykon put any effort into fighting the Order was when Darth Suvius showed up and that was because V challenged his villain cred directly. He may actually be the most likable villain I've encountered of those who have zero redeeming features by design. He's just in it for the game and he knows it.
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Apr 13, 2021 22:16
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:The only time Xykon put any effort into fighting the Order was when Darth Suvius showed up and that was because V challenged his villain cred directly. well he is a sorcerer, which means he has high charisma 
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Apr 13, 2021 23:03
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Fair point, but I've also always cared way more about Durkon and Belkar than Roy or Elan, so that can't be the whole story.
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Apr 13, 2021 23:08
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There’s something almost refreshing about a villain with no real redeeming qualities. What was it that Rich said in Start of Darkness? Something like he may be a villain, but he’s also kinda a dick. That’s easy to enjoy hating.
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Apr 14, 2021 00:21
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Vizuyos posted:It's basically the same as why Redcloak tried to murder Durkon on sight and had to be talked down before negotiations could even get started: anyone he can identify as definitely working to thwart their goals, he wants to murder on general principle. Even if they're not a huge threat, he sees no reason why he shouldn't take a few extra minutes to exterminate any potential obstacle. He's always giving it his all to kill whoever threatens his personal goals. He knows the Order is trying to keep Team Evil away from the Gates now, and that's all the reason he needs to murder them, whether they're strong enough to be a serious challenge or not. Yes, Redcloak has a GENERAL reason to kill Roy, same as he has a general reason to kill anyone in his way, but no particular reason.
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Apr 14, 2021 00:43
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Clarste posted:Yes, Redcloak has a GENERAL reason to kill Roy, same as he has a general reason to kill anyone in his way, but no particular reason. However though it wasn't true that Redcloak had a "Well I guess it isn't important" moment; Redcloak got more determined to kill Roy than less; and got visibly angry when Xykon told him no.
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Apr 14, 2021 00:48
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Raenir Salazar posted:However though it wasn't true that Redcloak had a "Well I guess it isn't important" moment; Redcloak got more determined to kill Roy than less; and got visibly angry when Xykon told him no. Redcloak views Roy as a strategic threat. He holds no animosity per se. He's a meticulous planner and wants to run down problems as soon as possible. Same reason he tried to kill durkon during negotiations. He's evil and kills without remorse or second thoughts, but that's not the same as wanting to kill someone
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Apr 14, 2021 01:12
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Hey just a dumb thought. When the series finally ends, do you think we'll see the 'camera' pull back to reveal a bunch of dudes sitting around a kitchen table surrounded by Cheetoes and pizza boxes?
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Apr 14, 2021 04:20
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Gynovore posted:Hey just a dumb thought. When the series finally ends, do you think we'll see the 'camera' pull back to reveal a bunch of dudes sitting around a kitchen table surrounded by Cheetoes and pizza boxes? Exceedingly lame, and by this point after 15-20 years of tabletop webcomics, a tired cliche. Probably not. I think all we'll get on that front is that one page with Belkar and Shojo, which honestly was sufficient of a glimpse and played off well. SKULL.GIF fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Apr 14, 2021 |
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Apr 14, 2021 04:35
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Gynovore posted:Hey just a dumb thought. When the series finally ends, do you think we'll see the 'camera' pull back to reveal a bunch of dudes sitting around a kitchen table surrounded by Cheetoes and pizza boxes? I think that subtracts from the story, by assigning the writing of the story to new fictional characters who were never developed. The problem isn't that it's a hacky cliche, though let me stress that it is. The problem is that the story doesn't need that, and after the first chapter, almost nothing in oots is wasted or unnecessary for developing a plot or a character or making a joke. I mean that. Find a page where even a single balloon of dialogue isn't going somewhere. That kind of unforshaowed ending would be Game Of Thrones level selling out the story.
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Apr 14, 2021 06:12
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He had that as one of the delirious awful ideas he was spouting while sick in a side panel once
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Apr 14, 2021 06:34
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Gynovore posted:Hey just a dumb thought. When the series finally ends, do you think we'll see the 'camera' pull back to reveal a bunch of dudes sitting around a kitchen table surrounded by Cheetoes and pizza boxes? I’m pretty sure this has been all but directly shot down?
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Apr 14, 2021 07:36
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Captain Oblivious posted:I’m pretty sure this has been all but directly shot down?
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Apr 14, 2021 09:37
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I don't understand why it's such a popular trope. For me at least it instantly kills any tension in the story. Who cares about the results of someone's home D&D campaign?
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Apr 14, 2021 16:37
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My high school girlfriend said that that’s how the movie Dungeons & Dragons (the 2000 one, the best one, I’ll die on this hill) should have ended, and that’s when I knew deep down that we had to break up.
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Apr 14, 2021 16:57
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This is explicitly a comic about a world which is a self aware stick figure parody of roleplaying games. That's literally how the world was made.
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Apr 14, 2021 22:16
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Sure, but there aren't players behind the main characters (despite them explicitly being "PCs"). The world, in-comic, is still real. Everything we see exists (again, in-universe), it's not a story/game being played by other characters, which is what people are discussing.
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Apr 14, 2021 22:40
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The gods are the player/game developer stand in. Everything about the creation myth (the Snarl, constant short-lived setting iterations, the "let's try this dumb idea next, it doesn't matter in the long run") are all meta-commentary on how the hobby has evolved over the years. OotS is ending with the characters trying to call their players out on literally toying with their lives and their world for their own amusement.
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Apr 14, 2021 22:46
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Strawberry Pyramid posted:OotS is ending with the characters trying to call their players out on literally toying with their lives and their world for their own amusement. no its not
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Apr 14, 2021 22:48
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As much as I love Undertale I am pretty sure the lesson of Oots isn't going to be even remotely similar to Undertale's.
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Apr 14, 2021 22:49
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The gods are the players and the whole Dark One/fourth quiddity plotline is an extremely tortured metaphor for the girl they invited who was played one game and never talked to anyone involved ever again because one player creeped her the gently caress out and none of the others wanted to tell him off.
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Apr 14, 2021 22:51
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Strawberry Pyramid posted:The gods are the player/game developer stand in. Everything about the creation myth (the Snarl, constant short-lived setting iterations, the "let's try this dumb idea next, it doesn't matter in the long run") are all meta-commentary on how the hobby has evolved over the years. OotS is ending with the characters trying to call their players out on literally toying with their lives and their world for their own amusement. Negative. The story, and the author, have already rejected this notion. They even did poked fun at the idea back when Belkar had his vision quest. The D&D framing device is not important to the actual themes of OotS beyond the alignment system being a gateway to meditations on good and evil.
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Apr 14, 2021 22:52
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