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I presume that's why one of her videos has a title about saving cats. Not gonna watch the video to confirm, but
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Apr 13, 2021 18:57
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I've posted excerpts before in this thread but Save the Cat is a v epic bookquote:Take a hip, slick movie like Lara Croft 2 for example. They spent a fortune on that film. And everyone is still wondering what happened. They can’t figure out why they didn’t bring in the audience of targeted men. It’s not surprising to me. What’s wrong with this picture? Where did the filmmakers go awry? To me it’s really very simple: I don’t like the Lara Croft character. Why would I? She’s cold and humorless. And while that’s fine in the solitary world of video games and comics, it doesn’t make me want to leave my home to go see the movie. The people who produced this film think they can get you to like her by making her “cool.” This is what amounts to “character development” in au currant movies: “She drives a cool car.” That’s someone’s idea of how to create a winning hero.
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Apr 13, 2021 19:18
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Also the bizarre Memento grudge:quote:So now that I’ve laid out these 15 beats for you, and used examples like What’s Up, Doc?, I’m sure all you hip, young screenwriting whipper-snappers are saying, yeah, right old man. Maybe this applied in your day, but we don’t need it anymore. We eschew the need to “like” a hero (we dig Lara Croft!!!) and those boring old story beats are passé. Who needs ’em? What about Memento!! Have I grasped the basic gestalt of your objection? quote:For extra credit, look at Memento. Yes, it’s an entertaining movie; yes, it even falls into the category of genre “Dude with a Problem.” Does it also match the beats of the BS2? Or is it just a gimmick that cannot be applied to any other movie? HINT: For all the hullabaloo surrounding Memento, guess how much it made?
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Apr 13, 2021 19:20
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Lmao olds
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Apr 13, 2021 19:25
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I didn’t know misterbibs wrote a book.
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Apr 13, 2021 19:26
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The writer of that book won a Razzie for worst screenplay. The last movie he wrote was Blank Check in 1994. 
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Apr 13, 2021 19:28
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Srice posted:I've posted excerpts before in this thread but Save the Cat is a v epic book Ah, like how Clark saves those guys on the oil rig at the start of Man Of Steel!
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Apr 13, 2021 19:28
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Srice posted:I've posted excerpts before in this thread but Save the Cat is a v epic book So did the writer of the book quote a dumb person in order to make a point or..?
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Apr 13, 2021 19:30
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Or how he burns his identity and current home and job to stop a guy from sexually harassing a co-worker
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Apr 13, 2021 19:31
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Srice posted:I've posted excerpts before in this thread but Save the Cat is a v epic book Just so.
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Apr 13, 2021 19:34
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There are a handful of solid books about the creative side of filmmaking and screenwriting written by people who actually made succesful films and have solid credits but the vast vast majority are written by total failsons with a few middling credits.
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Apr 13, 2021 19:41
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I dont think there's anything wrong with being clear in your message, but there's also definitely being too overt (see: how probably nobody who disagreed with Elysium went to see it). The guy who wrote Blank Check shouldnt be the person saying such though. E: That Lara Croft 2 quote, good lord.
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Apr 13, 2021 19:51
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Wonder Woman saves those kids in WW84 but people mock that scene. According to the book that should've endeared us to her character! The book lied!
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Apr 13, 2021 19:55
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It would be far more useful to interview a passle of screenwriters, both ones that failed and ones that succeeded, about the decisions they made and why they made them. This would be far more illuminating than attempting to turn the screenwriting process into a Chinese Room exercise. They pass in: a card with the words "cool protagonist" on it You pass back: a scene where the protagonist is humanized They pass in: a card with the words "non linear narrative" You pass back: nothing, you tore up the card because it's a stupid gimmick
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Apr 13, 2021 20:02
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AccountSupervisor posted:The writer of that book won a Razzie for worst screenplay.
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Apr 13, 2021 20:18
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Srice posted:I've posted excerpts before in this thread but Save the Cat is a v epic book I missed this the first time around but Save The Cat is absolutely worth a read, it's even dumber than Youtube poo poo if you can believe it.
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Apr 13, 2021 21:16
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MacheteZombie posted:That horse doesn't shitpost nearly as much not very familiar with horses, are you
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Apr 13, 2021 21:36
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That's uhhhhh quite a description for that video
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Apr 13, 2021 22:15
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I missed this the first time around but Save The Cat is absolutely worth a read, it's even dumber than Youtube poo poo if you can believe it. I think my favorite part (besides his grudge against Memento for being a successful movie despite not fitting his formula) is that he keeps bragging about how many scripts he has sold, and that he even sold a script to Spielberg! Sure, Spielberg never made a movie out of his script. And as for the rest only two movies based on his scripts were ever made. But he sold *so* many scripts!
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Apr 13, 2021 22:18
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Lmao
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Apr 13, 2021 22:19
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Martman posted:That's uhhhhh quite a description for that video
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Apr 13, 2021 22:30
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I missed this the first time around but Save The Cat is absolutely worth a read, it's even dumber than Youtube poo poo if you can believe it. That's a bold claim. Now I have to check it out, I hope you're proud of yourself.
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Apr 13, 2021 22:41
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This is now the Blake Snyder Memorial Dome: Sometimes You Save The Cat, And Sometimes... The Cat Saves You.
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Apr 13, 2021 22:42
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The airstrike feels a little on-the-nose, to be honest.
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Apr 14, 2021 00:21
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gently caress, I didn't think I could actually be interested in a zombie movie in 2021 but goddamnit Snyder you've done it again. Robot Style posted:I mean, popular screenwriting books like Save the Cat literally have a required story beat called "the theme is stated", so this is something people actually believe. I think somebody on here did a breakdown of that book and pointed out that a) it's full of poo poo and b) the guy who wrote it is also completely full of poo poo and c) was actually a really poo poo writer. It's the absolute archetypal "guy who has failed at doing it moving on to failing at teaching it" EDIT: never mind, somebody posted the breakdown and it's as bad as I remember. The funny thing is that, even accounting for inflation, Sea of Love only outgrossed Cradle of Life by about 20% domestically, and Cradle of Life did really well overseas. If 'Saving the Cat' matters, then audiences don't really seem to give a poo poo. AccountSupervisor posted:The writer of that book won a Razzie for worst screenplay. It's worse than that, the only previous movie he wrote before Blank Check was 'Stop or My Mom Will Shoot' which is a low point even among Stallone's many 90s low points.
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Apr 14, 2021 00:43
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Snowman_McK posted:
That's what he won the Razzie for. The ultimate irony would be if somehow he was a blood relative of Zacks.
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Apr 14, 2021 00:58
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AccountSupervisor posted:That's what he won the Razzie for. yeah, but there's razzie winners (Con Air won a razzie) and then there's Stop or My Mom will Shoot, which Arnie tricked Stallone into being in.
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Apr 14, 2021 01:07
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Srice posted:I've posted excerpts before in this thread but Save the Cat is a v epic book I actually saw Lara Croft 2 last year and it owned. It's basically 90 minutes of Jolie doing stunts on motorized toys.
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Apr 14, 2021 01:54
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On one hand I don't need a character verbalizing the themes of a movie because either the film actually conveys them or it doesn't, on the other hand people like my mother exist and watch lots of movies and don't like movies that don't clearly verbalize what they are all about so I'd be hard pressed not to have something in the film for those people.
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Apr 14, 2021 02:39
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Snowman_McK posted:yeah, but there's razzie winners (Con Air won a razzie) and then there's Stop or My Mom will Shoot, which Arnie tricked Stallone into being in. I feel there's a story here but I assume it's Arnie being asked to be in so many godawful movies that he decided to make Stallone take one for him Best thing about it was the reference in Mortal Kombat.
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Apr 14, 2021 04:43
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Arnold posted:"So I went in – this was during our war – I said to myself, I'm going to leak out that I have tremendous interest. I know the way it works in Hollywood. I would then ask for a lot of money. So then they'd say, 'Let's go give it to Sly. Maybe we can get him for cheaper.' So they told Sly, 'Schwarzenegger's interested. Here's the press clippings. He's talked about that. If you want to grab that one away from him, that is available.' And he went for it! He totally went for it. A week later, I heard about it, 'Sly is signing now to do this movie.' And I said, [pumps fist] 'Yes!'" https://screenrant.com/schwarzenegger-tricked-stallone-stop-or-my-mom-will-shoot/
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Apr 14, 2021 05:33
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Save the Cat was required reading and treated like an actual Bible by both students and lecturers on my filmmaking course and even being an actual idiot with no idea about filmmaking back then it didn't really sit right with me, but man, trying to convince anyone that having an inciting incident occur at precisely minute 17 (or whichever interval of time it would fall under for longer films) is not a unifying rule of well-paced storytelling or that worthwhile films that do not fall under Snyder's* formula exist used to be shut down hard. What an absolute waste of time and money. *Blake Snyder obvs, but I'd love to see Zack Snyder write a filmmaking book.
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Apr 14, 2021 05:35
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It reminds me of the Plinkett review of Phantom Menace where he says that unless you're one of, like, 40 very well respected directors, you shouldn't bother trying to diverge from the formula.
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Apr 14, 2021 05:58
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Roth posted:It reminds me of the Plinkett review of Phantom Menace where he says that unless you're one of, like, 40 very well respected directors, you shouldn't bother trying to diverge from the formula. I'm really glad I've never watched that review. The problem is viewing writing (or film making) rules as actual rules instead of guidelines that you should absolutely chuck out in a moment if they're holding you back from doing something good.
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Apr 14, 2021 06:00
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that advice is fine. it's just a writing/directing version of 'walk before you can run.' anyone who's hung around hopeful writers knows there's dozens of people who think they'll break the market open with some crazy idea - when they can't write a single compelling chapter. the issue with the advice is that George Lucas is absolutely one of those people who could break from the formula, and did. save the cat is absolutely garbage those, as is just about any book that promises to teach you how to write.
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Apr 14, 2021 06:32
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Horizon Burning posted:that advice is fine. it's just a writing/directing version of 'walk before you can run.' anyone who's hung around hopeful writers knows there's dozens of people who think they'll break the market open with some crazy idea - when they can't write a single compelling chapter. the issue with the advice is that George Lucas is absolutely one of those people who could break from the formula, and did. save the cat is absolutely garbage those, as is just about any book that promises to teach you how to write. Well, if it's phrased anything like the way Roth said (I'm not watching the review) it's more 'only walk. A certain, small number of pre approved people can run' which is recursive since most of those acclaimed directors got to that point by diverging from a formula.
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Apr 14, 2021 06:41
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drat, that shot owns
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Apr 14, 2021 07:14
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iirc that part of the review was talking about how TPM didn't have "good" characters that were relatable, or weren't central in the way Luke was in ANH. They mention that this isn't always the case, but considering that pretty much every movie they mention is also the first in a series, as opposed to TPM being a prequel, their point kind of falls apart because TPM was definitely advertised around the idea of "how did we get to where we were in ANH? let's go back and see these beloved characters 20 years earlier". Anyway, after they establish the "typical" way sci-fi, action, adventure genres tend to be structured, they then go on to say that not everyone follows this formula "but unless you're the Cohen Brothers, David Lynch, Paul Thomas Anderson, Stanley Kubrick, Alfred Hitchcock, Lars von Trier, Quentin Tarantino(really?), Martin Scorsese, (and a bunch of others but you get the idea) you really shouldn't strive away from this formula, especially if you're making a movie that's aimed towards children". so yes, the Plinkett reviews very much a "no, we don't like what you did, here's a bunch of reasons why we think it sucks" but it was lightning in a bottle in 2009 for internet critic videos. If you want a modern, more leveled deep dive into the prequels I recommend this series https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLP7v2GoLok34IPYPPHA9sLZymDSSS4vvf the reviewer does not shy away from criticisms of the prequel trilogy but is treating it more like a documentary of how we ended up with the films we got, not positing what could have been or trying to vilify Lucas
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Apr 14, 2021 07:32
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Roth posted:It reminds me of the Plinkett review of Phantom Menace where he says that unless you're one of, like, 40 very well respected directors, you shouldn't bother trying to diverge from the formula. You'd think if you spent around two minutes listing exceptions to your rules, you'd realize they might not be as important as you're making them out to be. But what do I know, I'm a cultist because I like movies that some other people don't.
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Apr 14, 2021 09:14
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Arnold is great
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Apr 14, 2021 09:21
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