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Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.
I just wish we had some more low tech ships that weren't just "we took a freighter and put guns on."

Seriously there are like seven high-tech frigates that all look slick as hell and have distinct identities and actual functions in combat. And then you look at low-tech and it's like "uhhhhhh we have three flavors of Lasher and then a bunch of crap you'd never put in your fleet."

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OctaMurk
Jun 21, 2013
I think it makes sense that theres few midline capitals though. All the midline ships were designed when the "Cruiser School" of Domain naval doctrine was dominant, thats why its all cruisers and only one capital

Valcione
Sep 12, 2007
For All Brave Silpheed Pilots


MShadowy posted:

Oh, oops, completely forgot to check the names on that. I'll come up with something else then.

Particle Halberd. Palberd.

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime
i threw converted hangars on a bunch of valkyries cause that used to be my strat years ago in the early-mid game, but their bombers dont seem to be doing anything. i have officers in them as well. do they need to have militarized subsystems to work right or something?

Scikar
Nov 20, 2005

5? Seriously?

And even that one is a battlecruiser. The cruisers themselves like the Eagle are more for soaking up fire long enough for the Conquest to clean up enemy cruisers, then mobbing slow enemy capitals when they have nothing left to protect their flanks. Drovers with escorts to keep the Eagles alive when they rotate out to dissipate flux, Herons to back up the Conquest with targeted strikes at the focus point.

But there's already 3 sub-lines within low tech - the converted civilian stuff, the brick tank Hegemony mainline stuff up to Onslaught, and then the Legion alternative line that was historically the lead-in to the Midline Cruiser School. High tech has clear lines of tanky / mobile / phase ships and then dedicated carriers. It doesn't seem too much of a stretch to imagine that the ultimate Cruiser School flagship isn't even a battlecruiser, it's a fleet carrier that hits hard like the Conquest without even needing to wander far from the Eagles.

It's kind of funny that between SWP and Vayra's ship pack, which flesh out those vanilla lines to fill some of the obvious gaps, you do get more of those historical low tech fleet ships with more speed or fighter bays, but the only Midline capital is a full fat battleship. I do wonder if Alex plans to integrate some of those core-plus mods into 1.0?

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime
also for some reason suddenly the game is taking like 40 seconds to save whereas it was like a second at most before

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.

Katsuma posted:

Particle Halberd. Palberd.

Pick an annoyingly specific particle and an annoyingly specific halberd.

BARYON SARISSA

STRANGE QUARK NAGINATA

BEC DE QUANTUM

SHAOLIN FUCKFIEND
Jan 21, 2008

Tuxedo Catfish posted:

I just wish we had some more low tech ships that weren't just "we took a freighter and put guns on."

Seriously there are like seven high-tech frigates that all look slick as hell and have distinct identities and actual functions in combat. And then you look at low-tech and it's like "uhhhhhh we have three flavors of Lasher and then a bunch of crap you'd never put in your fleet."

I've wanted an Ultralasher forever, low tech's design tenets kinda suck for frigates though since hull and armor to frigate budget is always gonna be underwhelming. In a way the brawler and centurion have eaten up the design space another low tech frigate could have used

Vengarr
Jun 17, 2010

Smashed before noon

Tabletops posted:

i threw converted hangars on a bunch of valkyries cause that used to be my strat years ago in the early-mid game, but their bombers dont seem to be doing anything. i have officers in them as well. do they need to have militarized subsystems to work right or something?

I believe they need Militarized Subsystems and either an Assault or Escort package. Otherwise they try to avoid combat and will only use their fighters for self-defense.

Not sure if Assault/Escort package have any influence on how the AI behaves.

Submarine Sandpaper
May 27, 2007


Tabletops posted:

also for some reason suddenly the game is taking like 40 seconds to save whereas it was like a second at most before

With the previous method you'd eventually be unable to load a save without enough computer numbers.

Insert name here
Nov 10, 2009

Oh.
Oh Dear.
:ohdear:

OctaMurk posted:

I think it makes sense that theres few midline capitals though. All the midline ships were designed when the "Cruiser School" of Domain naval doctrine was dominant, thats why its all cruisers and only one capital
A CV capital would actually make perfect sense for that though, since the aforementioned doctrine explicitly had strike craft as a core focus. It's less capitals not no capitals, and a large, fast CV would fit perfectly.

Also the Conquest description says it was designed before fighters became popular which implies it actually pre-dates the Cruiser School doctrine.

Tuxedo Catfish posted:

I just wish we had some more low tech ships that weren't just "we took a freighter and put guns on."

Seriously there are like seven high-tech frigates that all look slick as hell and have distinct identities and actual functions in combat. And then you look at low-tech and it's like "uhhhhhh we have three flavors of Lasher and then a bunch of crap you'd never put in your fleet."
I want another low-tech combat cruiser since if you don't want to use the Dominator your options are... *checks notes* the Colossus Mk.II and Venture.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.
I have a soft spot for the Venture as it is literally just a giant hippie van in space and I appreciate that energy, but yeah, I don't think I'd ever use it in a fleet doctrine. I guess it makes a serviceable missile boat, but I can't see it competing with the Falcon (P) or the Gryphon.

toasterwarrior
Nov 11, 2011
A midline capital battlecarrier would be nice, yeah. I'm not a fan of high-tech and have played so much SO low-tech that a flagship where I can play artillery while throwing bomber swarms at idiots would be a great change of pace.

Atopian
Sep 23, 2014

I need a security perimeter with Venetian blinds.

Tuxedo Catfish posted:

Pick an annoyingly specific particle and an annoyingly specific halberd.

BARYON SARISSA

STRANGE QUARK NAGINATA

BEC DE QUANTUM

I would equip the poo poo out of a Bec de Quantum.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.
I enjoy the high-tech ships but I think the dev kind of backed himself into a corner with them. So many of high-tech's defining characteristics are just synonymous with "good."

In particular having shields with good coverage and good efficiency makes them the go-to for ships that can stay in a fight forever, which is precisely the thing that high-tech is supposed to be bad at if you go by their logistics profile.

If you split those properties up so that different tech classes were better at efficiency vs. coverage you'd both open up more design space, and it would also help make them more distinct to fight since the relative value of slugging it out vs. going for flanks and so on would change.

e: Midline on the other hand is the perfect example of the right way to do it. Their ships aren't just generic all-rounders, they're specifically the best at line combat, with their mount positions, shield arrangements, ship systems, etc. all supporting that identity, barring a few outliers.

Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Apr 14, 2021

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime

Submarine Sandpaper posted:

With the previous method you'd eventually be unable to load a save without enough computer numbers.

What do you mean

Vengarr posted:

I believe they need Militarized Subsystems and either an Assault or Escort package. Otherwise they try to avoid combat and will only use their fighters for self-defense.

Not sure if Assault/Escort package have any influence on how the AI behaves.

Ty!

LegoMan
Mar 17, 2002

ting ting ting

College Slice
Doing my MCRN run this time. Befriended Pirates, gave them a crapton of blueprints, hosed off to some remote corner of the galaxy to throw AI cores in everything.

Scikar
Nov 20, 2005

5? Seriously?

Tuxedo Catfish posted:

I enjoy the high-tech ships but I think the dev kind of backed himself into a corner with them. So many of high-tech's defining characteristics are just synonymous with "good."

In particular having shields with good coverage and good efficiency makes them the go-to for ships that can stay in a fight forever, which is precisely the thing that high-tech is supposed to be bad at if you go by their logistics profile.

If you split those properties up so that different tech classes were better at efficiency vs. coverage you'd both open up more design space, and it would also help make them more distinct to fight since the relative value of slugging it out vs. going for flanks and so on would change.

e: Midline on the other hand is the perfect example of the right way to do it. Their ships aren't just generic all-rounders, they're specifically the best at line combat, with their mount positions, shield arrangements, ship systems, etc. all supporting that identity, barring a few outliers.

At least with the Apogee and the Paragon, once they're engaged they're committed and you can dump sabots into them. And at the other end, the Wolf and the Shrike have mobility but they can't take fights head on. But how do you deal with an Aurora, when it's the fastest cruiser in the game, but also handily beats most cruisers 1v1 while face tanking them?

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.

Scikar posted:

At least with the Apogee and the Paragon, once they're engaged they're committed and you can dump sabots into them. And at the other end, the Wolf and the Shrike have mobility but they can't take fights head on. But how do you deal with an Aurora, when it's the fastest cruiser in the game, but also handily beats most cruisers 1v1 while face tanking them?

Right, exactly. Literally the only thing that keeps the Aurora in check at all is that the AI is really bad at applying burst damage. To use the Aurora to its full extent requires pro-active hit-and-run play that the AI lacks the awareness to pull off. But it's so over-statted that even giving it a second-rate fitting so the computer can manage it is still incredibly effective.

Granted at 30 OP it's only slightly less expensive to deploy than a capital, so I understand the impulse to give it good numbers relative to its hull size -- but, like, a Dominator at 25 OP is not 80% of an Aurora in terms of pulling its weight, and that's one of the best low-tech ships.

Valcione
Sep 12, 2007
For All Brave Silpheed Pilots


toasterwarrior posted:

A midline capital battlecarrier would be nice, yeah. I'm not a fan of high-tech and have played so much SO low-tech that a flagship where I can play artillery while throwing bomber swarms at idiots would be a great change of pace.

You want the Diable Avionics Pandemonium.


Tuxedo Catfish posted:

Pick an annoyingly specific particle and an annoyingly specific halberd.

BARYON SARISSA

STRANGE QUARK NAGINATA

BEC DE QUANTUM

This is the best idea ever, holy crap

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.
the only thing that makes me hesitate is that "Lance" in Starsector specifically indicates a non-continuous beam weapon (usually with a poor turn rate but very high damage) and i appreciate that the name actually tells you useful information in cases like that

but still :v:

BitBasher
Jun 6, 2004

You've got to know the rules before you can break 'em. Otherwise, it's no fun.


LegoMan posted:

Doing my MCRN run this time. Befriended Pirates, gave them a crapton of blueprints, hosed off to some remote corner of the galaxy to throw AI cores in everything.

So more Laconains than MCRN.

toasterwarrior
Nov 11, 2011

Katsuma posted:

You want the Diable Avionics Pandemonium.

What Diable has accomplished is amazing but TBH I just feel like the aesthetic goes too far beyond the feel of vanilla Starsector, sadly. It's why for my "serious" runs I'll go with low/mid-tech stuff like Kadur or Arkgneisis or Tiandong (especially Tiandong), along with ArmA since the author intentionally went for a vanilla-compliant style, topping out at maybe Scy. Anything past that is a gimmick run for me, and that even includes Interstellar Imperium which I've done my longest playthrough with.

Brainbread
Apr 7, 2008

Ok. So. Field Trip report with Kingdom of Terra.

Its fun. Its stupid. Its so stupid and fun. I always liked fleets full of ships that Knife-Fight things, but now I literally have a fleet of ships that do that. Things get punted, things get grabbed and drilled. Things get grabbed, drilled, punted back from the other side *into the drill* and explode all over your face.

There is a ship that is a giant space ankylosaur with a tail made of explodes. What does it do? It slaps things with its tail on its ship system.

is it canon? No. Is lore-friendly? God no. Do the ships work the way they're supposed to and also are incredibly fun to use? Yes. Yes yes yes.

If you want to replace selling Heavy Armaments to the Luddic Path with selling them triceratops *and* heavy armaments, all the while having ships specifically designed to ram things and explode, or if you just want to reach out and punch face its a good mod for you.

Combat in Starsector is fun. Combat with Kingdom of Terra ships is just a whole different level of stupid and fun.

P.S. Set your fleet to aggressive with them.

stopgap1
Jul 27, 2013
I just dropped in to say that a line of champions doesn't gently caress around. I had 3 14th legion ships, an enforcer a dominator and a legion that I had turned incredibly mean. all gone to a very nasty battleline. there was a battlecruiser as well that hosed me up.

P.S. - I genuinely miss those ships, and the story points I spent on them. The legion would have survived but I wanted to beat the odds and recover my dominator. I shouldnt have.

stopgap1 fucked around with this message at 04:54 on Apr 14, 2021

LegoMan
Mar 17, 2002

ting ting ting

College Slice

BitBasher posted:

So more Laconains than MCRN.

Well yes but I tried to balance lack of spoilers with the fact they also weren't technically Laconians yet

BULBASAUR
Apr 6, 2009




Soiled Meat
Morale Management Mod Icon TM



ErKeL
Jun 18, 2013

Tuxedo Catfish posted:

I just wish we had some more low tech ships that weren't just "we took a freighter and put guns on."

Seriously there are like seven high-tech frigates that all look slick as hell and have distinct identities and actual functions in combat. And then you look at low-tech and it's like "uhhhhhh we have three flavors of Lasher and then a bunch of crap you'd never put in your fleet."
Yeah these ships suck and I wish there was a reason for their mods at the very least. All the pirate ones make literally no sense.
"We took out all the cargo bays for a couple undersized/oversized weapons we can't field so even if we don't blow up in 1-2 hits because we have no hull then we can't carry any loot anyway"

AtillatheBum
Oct 6, 2010

Justice ain't gonna dispense itself.

Tuxedo Catfish posted:

Right, exactly. Literally the only thing that keeps the Aurora in check at all is that the AI is really bad at applying burst damage. To use the Aurora to its full extent requires pro-active hit-and-run play that the AI lacks the awareness to pull off. But it's so over-statted that even giving it a second-rate fitting so the computer can manage it is still incredibly effective.

Granted at 30 OP it's only slightly less expensive to deploy than a capital, so I understand the impulse to give it good numbers relative to its hull size -- but, like, a Dominator at 25 OP is not 80% of an Aurora in terms of pulling its weight, and that's one of the best low-tech ships.

Alex needs to give the Odyssey shield to the Aurora. The Odyssey has what must be the lowest shield speed(the time from when you engage the shield until it is fully extended) in the game at ~7.5 seconds so if you ever disengage it in combat you need to know that nothing can hit you. The Aurora will still have the movement speed so that it can break away from the fight to rest but that is the way the Aurora is supposed to play and I don't think that should go away. With a shield speed nerf though you can take advantage of an Aurora that overcommits and is forced to drop its shields even temporarily or one that thinks it's safe and out of range just before you pounce on it. That would also make it so you can mitigate the downsides by grabbing accelerated shields but that eats into your points for caps and vents.

SHAOLIN FUCKFIEND posted:

I've wanted an Ultralasher forever, low tech's design tenets kinda suck for frigates though since hull and armor to frigate budget is always gonna be underwhelming. In a way the brawler and centurion have eaten up the design space another low tech frigate could have used

I was thinking about this the other day and I think the design space that is still left over in the game for vanilla ships is very small. There really needs to be another Low Tech pure-combat frigate(why are so many Low-Tech frigates combat-freighters?) AND a Low Tech destroyer/light cruiser that is also designed for head to head fighting. There should also be one High Tech dedicated carrier at the destroyer or cruiser level.

There only being one Midline capital is ok since as pointed out before the whole point of midline ships is the cruisers. Like even the midline frigates are all designed to support a cruiser battle line and the Midline already having a destroyer and cruiser carrier that are both fantastic means I don't think the line needs a capital carrier.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.
so since i've basically won my current game a dozen times over now, so i've been theorycrafting the perfect 180 DP Ordo-hunting fleet and uh

i'm increasingly convinced the correct answer is just "Dooms and frigates," and the frigates are really only there to provide bonuses

phase ships probably need to be reined in a touch.

it's cool that the AI actually knows how to use them now (more or less, still not quite player-level performance but i've been pretty impressed by AI Dooms actually doing the "flank and unload AM blasters" maneuver) but it's also revealing how utterly busted they are.

e: the Harbinger doesn't shine quite as hard in this particular matchup since it's such a meat grinder and they inevitably take hull damage from time to time, but on the other hand you can field almost two of them for every Doom you remove and they're one of the best options for taking out the Tesseracts

Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 07:49 on Apr 14, 2021

Atopian
Sep 23, 2014

I need a security perimeter with Venetian blinds.
I suspect that once I'm done with this current run, I'll spend some time tweaking fleet composition and game constants until I find some combination that makes the endgame terrifying but possible with a wide variety of different approaches.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.
I've also really gained an appreciation for Ion damage. If you want your AI ships to last through multiple engagements, making sure the enemy can't shoot back is a good idea.

Sandweed
Sep 7, 2006

All your friends are me.

I'd like AI dooms more if they would stop blowing up my frigates.

Fat Samurai
Feb 16, 2011

To go quickly is foolish. To go slowly is prudent. Not to go; that is wisdom.
I know the answer is a big, fat "it depends", but is there any dumb, 100% foolproof "build this and win" list for ships until I get to grips with the game?

I'm overwhelmed by options, and besides a SO Hammerhead everything else I build seems crap. I've gone through 5 fights before noticing that my Shrike, which had the biggest laser I could mount at the moment is carrying a Graviton Beam and doing nothing to enemy ships, for example.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.

Fat Samurai posted:

I know the answer is a big, fat "it depends", but is there any dumb, 100% foolproof "build this and win" list for ships until I get to grips with the game?

I'm overwhelmed by options, and besides a SO Hammerhead everything else I build seems crap. I've gone through 5 fights before noticing that my Shrike, which had the biggest laser I could mount at the moment is carrying a Graviton Beam and doing nothing to enemy ships, for example.

That's pretty much what Graviton Beams do, they're not really for damage so much as the ability to harass the enemy at a range where they're unable to respond.

You want weapons that deal consistent, sustained damage early on. It also helps to tailor your guns relative to what you expect to be facing -- Derelicts have few if any shields and tough armor so it makes sense in that context to outfit your ships exclusively with High Explosive weapons, while against pirates or other conventional enemies you want a plan for dealing with shields.

Small: Railguns, Light Assault Guns, IR Pulse Lasers
Medium: Heavy Machine Gun, Assault Chaingun, Pulse Laser, Phase Lance
Large: Storm Needler, Mjolnir Cannon, Hephaestus Assault Gun, Tachyon Lance, Plasma Cannon

The above is a list of guns that are:

- mostly sustained damage (with the notable exception of the Phase Lance which is a burst weapon, but one the AI is a little bit better about since it doesn't cost too much flux)

- mostly generalist (the ballistic guns are of course a mix of anti-shield kinetics and anti-armor HE, and should be used together; the energy weapons can just go on as-is)

- mostly close-range (early game tends to mean smaller engagements which makes it less likely that you'll get surrounded and swarmed, which makes going in close comparatively safe)

Slap those on whatever ship you want to use and be generous with flux stats and you should get a fit that is passable, if not highly optimized. The closer-range stuff goes great with Safety Overrides if you feel like spending story points.

For anything with missile slots, Sabots and Harpoons are generally what the AI can best be trusted with. For slots that don't face forward, PD Lasers or Vulcan Cannons are good for point defense.

Note also that most of these weapons will only be available as loot, on commission, or on the black market; open markets tend to be flooded with crap like Thumpers and Tactical Lasers and other poo poo that doesn't really help with the early game "oh god I can't kill anything" problem. Scavenging the battlefield when pirates and patrols fight is a good way to get a free leg up, as is exploration, or in a pinch just running around all the different markets buying out the black market's weapon stock. You might also run into a bar mission that lets you print hulls/weapons directly but the markup tends to be killer.

You can use an abandoned station (like the ones in Corvus or Yma) to create a stockpile of weapons for later use, and this is a much better plan than selling your extra guns because you never know when you might need them.

Inexplicable Humblebrag
Sep 20, 2003

more generically than the above, for AI ships you want

  • similar range for all non-point defence, non-missile weapons
  • optionally, a combo of burst and sustained damage (i.e. slow, powerful shots and rapid, weak shots)
  • ideally, a combo of kinetic and high explosive
  • point defence on sides and back

try looking for midline ships and kitting them out, because as mentioned upthread, they're all designed pretty much for line combat with front-facing mounts.

it is important to get a grip on damage types. when firing at an enemy you're normally chewing through shields -> armour -> hull.

kinetic does 200% damage to shields, 50% to armour, 100% to hull
high-ex does 200% damage to armour, 50% to shields, 100% to hull
fragmentation does 25% damage to armour, 50% to shields, 100% to hull, but generally is insanely flux-efficient and if they're hitting hull they will tear poo poo up
energy does 100% to everything and is flux-expensive

ships are generally tailored to this; ballistics-heavy ships will be low/mid-tech and won't have the enormous flux resevoirs of energy-mounting hi-tech ships.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.
Good hulls to look out for early on:

- almost any high-tech frigate, they're all amazing. tempests in particular murder poo poo all game long
- lashers; these will die sometimes but they're super-cheap and easy to outfit

- the hammerhead, as you've already discovered. falls off eventually but absolutely destroys pirates and derelicts
- medusa: tanky and ludicrously fast destroyer with ballistic slots so it's better than most high-tech ships at shield cracking. used to be insanely rare but 0.95 shuffled market spawns around, now it's relatively easy to find one in tri-tach markets if you keep checking back
- harbinger: stick a couple of phase lances or heavy blasters on this and use it as a player flagship. incredibly simple to use relative to how insanely good it is, and a great introduction to phase ship mechanics.

- apogee: one of the starter ships, difficult to find without a TT commission otherwise. the one you start with has an absolute shitfit; get a Tachyon Lance, Plasma Cannon, or (for Derelicts) a High Intensity Laser for the forward large energy slot and swap the missile launchers out for a Squall MLRS and a Sabot SRM (large and small slots, respectively) and you'll have a great artillery / fire support ship that helps your smaller, closer-range stuff apply pressure

e: also put Integrated Targeting Units on anything cruiser-sized and up, Dedicated Targeting Cores if you don't have ITUs yet.

most of the shield mods are also good on anything high-tech (Hardened Shields, Stabilized Shields, Shield Conversion -- Front; these all help with winning the flux war, and keeping your flux down is key both to winning battles generally and in particular, to making your ships stay in the fight instead of retreating)

Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 09:58 on Apr 14, 2021

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.
also i cannot stress enough: take a commission. when i was new to the game someone told me to avoid commissions until you were more experienced, and this is the worst Starsector-related advice i've ever heard. it's the exact opposite of the truth, it takes a lot more experience (and patience) to get by without one!

they give you passive income and access to rarer hulls and weapons and open the game up so much more than trying to go it alone. i tend to go Tri-Tach because high tech is best tech but pick whatever faction flies the things you want to fly

with a commission you can start saving up for a decent combat cruiser and an actually-good fit for it, which is really the turning point where bounties start being a feasible and profitable approach as opposed to exploration / trade

getting something like a Dominator, Eagle, Champion, Aurora, or Doom basically marks the beginning of the midgame imo. i didn't put it on the previous list because you kind of need to already have a handle on things to afford and maintain one, but this is basically the next step after "okay i have a decent little fleet of frigates and destroyers, now what?"

e: and if all of the above is TMI, name a hull and i'll post a fit :v:

Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 10:21 on Apr 14, 2021

AtillatheBum
Oct 6, 2010

Justice ain't gonna dispense itself.

Fat Samurai posted:

I know the answer is a big, fat "it depends", but is there any dumb, 100% foolproof "build this and win" list for ships until I get to grips with the game?

I'm overwhelmed by options, and besides a SO Hammerhead everything else I build seems crap. I've gone through 5 fights before noticing that my Shrike, which had the biggest laser I could mount at the moment is carrying a Graviton Beam and doing nothing to enemy ships, for example.

These are all ships that are fantastic in the player's hands and that the AI is very capable of flying as well.

Lasher 1: 2x Light Dual ACs in the forward facing ballistics, 1x Light Assault Gun and 2x Dual Machine Gun the turret ballistics, 2x Harpoon MRM in the Missile slots.
Lasher 2: 2x Light Assault Gun, 1x Light Dual AC and 2x Dual MGs, 2x Sabot SRM

Both of these are basically the same just with different emphasis on the which sustained dps gun they use. Give both types Hardened Subsystems and then max vents and add capacitators until you are out of OP. You can use the lesser versions of the ballistic guns (single ac instead of dual ac, light mortar instead of light assault gun, single MG instead of dual) until you find enough guns to do the proper fit.
Lashers with one of these setups will shred any frigates they can get in range of and are fully capable of killing destroyers given enough time. SO will make these even more dangerous but its hard to find the OP to equip it and building SO in when you are still in the early game is a risky and expensive proposition. Luddic Path Lashers have SO already built in so pick those up whenever you see them. Keep in mind that these ships will fall off hard in the midgame when enemies have weapons with enough range and damage to prevent the Lashers from closing the distance.

Wolf: Med Pulse Laser, Ion Cannon, 2x Sabot or Harpoon, 2x PD Laser

Hardened Subsystems again, Max vents, Caps to taste. This ship wont do a ton of killing on it's own but it will basically never die in the early game; it also falls off in the midgame when it gets outranged. However at that point it should be noted that it's a fantastic pursuit frigate for when you need to run down the ships that flee. If you are feeling spicy you can swap the Pulse Laser for a Heavy Blaster. Difficult to pilot but also extremely rewarding when you get it right.

Sunder: Autopulse Laser, 2x Med Pulse Laser, 2x Sabot SRM, 3x Vulcan Cannon PD

Integrated Targeting unit if you have found the Blueprints, and then either Extended Mags if you or an officer is piloting it or Reinforced Bulkheads if you are leaving it to its own devices. Max vents and leftovers in caps again. This ship is a fantastic damage dealer but is a bit fragile so make sure you have a built in guaranteed way to recover it after it gets a bit overzealous and dies. You don't want to lose such a relatively big investment early on.

Hammerhead - SO makes these into pocket blenders but it seems you've already discovered that. They can also make for great support/line ships if you forgo SO and outfit them with Integrated Targeting Unit paired with Railguns and Heavy Mortars.

Medusa: 2x Light Needler(preferred but hard to find early on) or Light Dual AC, 2x IR Pulse Laser, 2x Med Pulse Laser, 3x PD Laser.

Max Vents and as many caps as you can fit. Probably my favorite destroyer in the game, this baby can handily win the flux attrition war with any destroyer and a lot of stock cruisers too. It also has the mobility to outflank and destroy most cruisers from the rear. And if somehow you find yourself overextended or in bad spot just teleport away. This ship also gets ludicrously dangerous if you take the time to build in a few mods as well: Hardened Shields, ITU, and Flux Distributor are all excellent candidates. Like the Wolf, swapping the Med Pulses for Heavy Blasters or Phase Lances is another way to improve your killing power but you'll have to manage your flux carefully. You can also forgo the rear PD once you're more confident since if you pilot it right nothing should ever get behind you except maybe fighters.

AtillatheBum fucked around with this message at 10:39 on Apr 14, 2021

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toasterwarrior
Nov 11, 2011
Questions since I'm trying to outfit another backline support ship, as if I haven't learned my lesson: I got this mod-added Bronco, two medium missile slots upfront, one medium ballistic center, 3 small ballistics for PD. Accelerated Ammo Feeder as the system.

My ideal is Kadur long-range rails on the medium, PD in smalls, and this Kneecapper missile that splits into EMP bombs and auto-reloads on the fronts. This thing would ideally stay at far range, constantly hammering away at shields with the rails, and saturating the field with EMP bombs like a pest. In practice, the AI goes to knife-fight targets with PD.

If I remove every weapon save the missiles, it'll actually stay back. If I fit the medium slot with PD, knife-fight. This doesn't even consider my intent to put a Converted Hangar in the thing for Broadsword support, though I was hoping to maybe put bombers in it for once.

Will it actually do what I want if I manage to get a Cautious officer in it? I heard that the simulation AI is patterned on Steady officers, which doesn't sound great if a Steady is instead choosing to get close with ostensibly long-range weapons.

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