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Silver2195 posted:Also, prior to ESB, there was actually no indication that Jabba was an alien. I think there was plenty indication. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cw1gkNd6Z_8
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Apr 12, 2021 00:26
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Silver2195 posted:A surprising amount has been written about this, e.g., http://jbr.me.uk/canon.html. This is great, I particularly love the ideas Vader is an alien in an environmental suit and the Clone Wars might refer to some sort of imperial succession crisis with cloned Emperors.
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Apr 12, 2021 08:46
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SlothfulCobra posted:I think there was plenty indication. Taschen's Star Wars Archives book has an anecdote from someone who worked on the movie claiming the scene was cut because the actor they hired wasn't very good, even after reshooting the scene a couple of times. The alien Jabba may have just been devised to try to cover up his performance. The only draft of the script that mentions Jabba as specifically nonhuman was published in 1979, and it just has his mention as a "slug-like creature" tacked-on to the end of his description from earlier drafts. Han even calls him a human being in dialogue, which had to be recontextualized into an insult about humans themselves.
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Apr 17, 2021 00:04
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It seems to me more like "this scene with Jabba was written and filmed but after it was cut from the movie the later movie didn't take it into consideration at all and designed a totally different Jabba from scratch". Maybe a novelization stuck it back in, the novelizations did a lot of weird stuff. Like it's a cool thing that they could take the deleted scene and CGI it into fitting back into the rest of the canon, but even without the visual quality issues, Jabba's nothing like he was in the other movie. Deleted scene Jabba has a whole nice guy routine where he's paternalistic towards his victims and weirdly micromanages his subordinates. RotJ Jabba is a disgusting hedonist who openly murders peoples at parties and doesn't really seem inclined or even able to extract himself from his den of cronies to go make veiled threats in person.
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Apr 17, 2021 02:44
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Also in the deleted scene he's not horny even once
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Apr 17, 2021 05:41
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Silver2195 posted:A surprising amount has been written about this, e.g., http://jbr.me.uk/canon.html. As a kid I read the novelisations (and/or comics) and they'd write R2D2 and C3PO as like: Artoo and Threepio, so I eventually started wondering if Obi-Wan was OB1?!... Old Ben #1  Which falls apart pretty quickly if you think about it, but I was pretty sure I was onto something
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Apr 17, 2021 06:05
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OB1 being a clone name was a pretty popular fan theory, you weren't alone.
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Apr 17, 2021 07:22
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I can't remember if it was this thread where someone brought up the star destroyer so large that it launches regular sized star destroyers and is also a death star and was looking for an image of it. But I found one on Pinterest. Pinterest is a hole I can lose myself in for an embarrassingly long time just looking at ridiculous nerd poo poo. I just wish it was easier to curate what it shows you, because looking at pictures of Mandalorians should not mean I really need to see pictures of female Japanese volleyball players' feet. EDIT: but I would like to congratulate the All-Japan women's volleyball team for now being ranked sixth in the world by the FIVB. It looked like a hard few years. Certainly sweaty. Megillah Gorilla fucked around with this message at 13:49 on Apr 17, 2021 |
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Apr 17, 2021 13:42
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Looks like that's part of an ILM Artstation challenge, so is fan art as hell, but it's pretty clearly inspired by some actual concept art done for The Force Awakens:
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Apr 18, 2021 23:54
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Speed holes make everything worse.
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Apr 18, 2021 23:58
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When Abrams started working on Star Wars, he was still finishing Star Trek Into Darkness, so there's definitely a point where he was all about speed holes on spaceships.
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Apr 19, 2021 00:44
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PoptartsNinja posted:Speed holes make everything worse. There's one fan Star Destroyer design that uses the big speed hole to launch and recover starfighters while the outside of the hull covers the launch bays from the front and sides. It seems to be well-liked by people who care about Star Destroyer design on the internet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAVC-8tR7EY
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Apr 19, 2021 01:16
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A roller coaster themed around an outer space vacation service that breaks down and goes horribly awry. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWEdlLwvKOM
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Apr 19, 2021 05:47
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I'm reminded of a EU book I read in I think the Corellia trilogy where a smaller Star Destroyer had been mostly disarmed and turned into a cruise ship or something, and painted red. The owner of another ex-Imperial Star Destroyer was quietly jealous about it and had actually looked into getting his own ship painted, but found the only paint available in adequate quantities to do so was Imperial Grey, making him briefly wonder if the Emperor had been out just to piss him off the whole time. That design looks like a cross between a Star Destroyer and the Trade Federation motherships.
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Apr 19, 2021 06:50
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Sounds like Booster Terrik’s Errant Venture, which was a full on Imperial II-class Star Destroyer but lacking most of the weapons. IIRC he did get painted red at some point, but was constantly having trouble finding parts to keep it running after a certain point.
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Apr 19, 2021 12:48
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That's the one. And now I'm picturing a huge crappy old party ship with flaking red paint and jury-rigged repairs, because that is a hilarious idea. Old starships do come up a lot in Star Wars, it's a bit of a point in The Mandalorian that the protagonist's ancient ship is useful for his work since as pre-Imperial surplus it doesn't fall under regulations regarding former Imperial or Rebellion vessels, and isn't an immediate target to either. Something similar probably goes for the Falcon.
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Apr 19, 2021 17:15
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Old starships do come up a lot in Star Wars, it's a bit of a point in The Mandalorian that the protagonist's ancient ship is useful for his work since as pre-Imperial surplus it doesn't fall under regulations regarding former Imperial or Rebellion vessels, and isn't an immediate target to either. Something similar probably goes for the Falcon. The scifi version of a 19th century black powder musket today
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Apr 19, 2021 18:23
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Ghost Leviathan posted:That's the one. And now I'm picturing a huge crappy old party ship with flaking red paint and jury-rigged repairs, because that is a hilarious idea. Are there no private shipbuilders in the EU, or a Star Wars version of Anaheim Electronics that are either outside the Rebel/Imperial conflict or more likely just supply both sides anyway?
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Apr 19, 2021 22:24
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Solkanar512 posted:Are there no private shipbuilders in the EU, or a Star Wars version of Anaheim Electronics that are either outside the Rebel/Imperial conflict or more likely just supply both sides anyway? Corellia was absolutely this in the EU but now IDK.
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Apr 19, 2021 22:38
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Robot Style posted:Looks like that's part of an ILM Artstation challenge, so is fan art as hell, but it's pretty clearly inspired by some actual concept art done for The Force Awakens: As stupid as this concept is, it's at least distinctive. The end result was just a boring angular blob.  It's kind of amazing how the sequels dropped the ball on memorable ship designs. I think the only thing that stood out is Snoke's flagship, which does kind of neatly subvert the usual imperial aesthetic by going wide rather than long.
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Apr 19, 2021 23:05
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There's a multitude of private ship companies, but generally if you want your products to be sold in places that follow a system of law, you gotta follow the regulations for their manufacture. There was a whole thing where the Empire was taking direct control over a lot of corporations as part of its reign, like they confiscated the corporate holdings of the companies that were part of the CIS after the Clone Wars, and the Empire was trying to nationalize the Incom Corporation and the day before it happened as a big gently caress you a lot of the staff and scientists defected to the Rebellion and helped steal as many vehicles and factory equipment as they could (which is where X-Wings come from). There was also a whole thing where the New Republic managed to take control over the company responsible for Star Destroyers by buying up the bulk of the shares from stockholders because they had become basically worthless while the Empire had total control over the company. So when the Imperial remnants slipped up the New Republic intimidated them into following their corporate rules despite the corporate headquarters being a total fortress. Not ideologically satisfying, but kinda neat.
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Apr 19, 2021 23:47
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Ghost Leviathan posted:That's the one. And now I'm picturing a huge crappy old party ship with flaking red paint and jury-rigged repairs, because that is a hilarious idea. Ahem. 
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Apr 19, 2021 23:56
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Solkanar512 posted:Are there no private shipbuilders in the EU, or a Star Wars version of Anaheim Electronics that are either outside the Rebel/Imperial conflict or more likely just supply both sides anyway? They’re explicitly shown in TLJ?
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Apr 20, 2021 08:04
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CainFortea posted:But to your main point, while in WWII parts standardization is something we would laugh at today, US tanks and ships were generations of standardization ahead of the nazis. Tanks, yes, and you've got like Liberty ships I guess. Major warships were about equally bespoke just about everywhere. You just don't mass produce something that large. Of course the Empire does so they may well actually standardise things a lot more.
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Apr 20, 2021 12:03
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feedmegin posted:Tanks, yes, and you've got like Liberty ships I guess. Major warships were about equally bespoke just about everywhere. You just don't mass produce something that large. You need standardization before you can do the mass production. You don't need mass production to do standardization. One of the reasons we could make 37 sherman tanks per every tiger tank is that standardization. And while we didn't mass produce battleships (mainly because we had other priorities and air power was ruling the sea anyway), we could have because of that standardization. The Empire fielded 25,000 ISDs. You don't get that in 20 years without parts standardization.
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Apr 20, 2021 14:28
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CainFortea posted:You need standardization before you can do the mass production. You don't need mass production to do standardization. One of the reasons we could make 37 sherman tanks per every tiger tank is that standardization. This is very much begging the question. Whether or not the existence of 25k ISDs is enough to infer a specific industrial process rests on multiple other pieces of knowledge: is an ISD a fixed concept beneath its shape? Is 25,000 of them a particularly large number compared to the scale of the resources the empire can muster? Is the Empire even in a position to impose standardization on its local governors and contractors? There are a fairly wide variety of alternative explanations that are perfectly viable. The question of imperial resources is one that I think this thread comes back to fairly frequently - like that question earlier about TIE Pilots. I personally think it's quite unclear what the Empire's ability to muster manpower really looks like - we basically know two things about the Imperial government: it lacks a bureaucracy and it is very unpopular, both things that tend to make it hard to get a large number of motivated soldiers. BUT we also know that the Empire is the largest polity in the galaxy, implying that the base they're working from is huge. BUT in the OT here are the non-ship spaces we actually see: Tatooine, Yavin IV, Hoth, Bespin, Dagobah, and Endor; Tatooine is the most urbanized of those and it is "Wyoming-esque" to be generous. BUT outside of those movies we do eventually see Coruscant and Naboo which seem pretty populated, and Alderaan is implied to be at least modestly populated (2 billion people is both an absolute shitload but Earth already has several times that and we're presumably quite a bit less advanced, I did check and Earth and Alderaan have drat near exactly the same size). Anyway my point is that as hard as it is to talk about the physical science of Star Wars, the social science of Star Wars has if anything more gaps. Which is great if you want to write fanfiction tbh.
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Apr 20, 2021 15:05
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Well, we know there's like 4 ship yards the empire used. So if they're building 25k across 4 ship yards that very strongly suggests a specific industrial process. Especially if many of the parts are farmed out to other businesses. Also I just thought of a relative way to check on parts standardization using my D6 book but i'm at work so it'll have to wait.
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Apr 20, 2021 16:03
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You guys know it’s now in canon that somehow-returned-Palpatine just simply willed stone into ships... or something. Perfectly explains the 25K number of ISDs.
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Apr 21, 2021 00:04
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jeeves posted:You guys know it’s now in canon that somehow-returned-Palpatine just simply willed stone into ships... or something. No, because we know they were made in shipyards. Because the books say they were made in shipyards.
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Apr 21, 2021 00:12
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If you think about it, all ships made out of metal are technically made from stone.
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Apr 21, 2021 00:14
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Defiance Industries posted:If you think about it, all ships made out of metal are technically made from stone. Palpy just willed the whole stone to metal process to speed up! Such powers the dark side has!
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Apr 21, 2021 00:53
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jeeves posted:Palpy just willed the whole stone to metal process to speed up! Such powers the dark side has!
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Apr 21, 2021 01:20
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It is funny how the Prequels, for all the hate they get, spend the entire trilogy explaining the massive lengths and time investment it takes to create a military capable of waging a galactic war, a process which takes decades and tons of political maneuvering. Then the Sequels say that no, militaries capable of waging massive wars appear out of thin air, and this happens not once, not twice, but three times across the sequels.
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Apr 21, 2021 01:36
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Honestly Timothy Zahn deserves a lot of credit for writing Thrawn as able to build a fearsome fighting machine out of a rag tag bunch of downtrodden Imperals without an Empire. Then his super weapon is a lot of slight of hand. It’s kind of amazing how much good writing counts versus the authors who followed him, including Kevin J. (“the J stands for I’m a lovely writer!”) Anderson and his INVINCIBLE SUN CRUSHER!!!!!!!!! Talk about shittiest piece of garbage tech in all of science fiction.
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Apr 21, 2021 01:50
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jeeves posted:including Kevin J. (“the J stands for I’m a lovely writer!”) Anderson and his INVINCIBLE SUN CRUSHER!!!!!!!!! But it's ok, because
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Apr 21, 2021 02:25
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jeeves posted:Honestly Timothy Zahn deserves a lot of credit for writing Thrawn as able to build a fearsome fighting machine out of a rag tag bunch of downtrodden Imperals without an Empire. Then his super weapon is a lot of slight of hand. It’s kind of amazing how much good writing counts versus the authors who followed him, including Kevin J. (“the J stands for I’m a lovely writer!”) Anderson and his INVINCIBLE SUN CRUSHER!!!!!!!!! As an abstract thing the suncrusher was interesting, in that the hull was invulnerable but there always had to be some way of getting into the ship, so things like weapon turrets and engines would get crushed when it got yeeted into a sun or whatever. But that's the only interesting thing about it.
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Apr 21, 2021 02:53
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galagazombie posted:It is funny how the Prequels, for all the hate they get, spend the entire trilogy explaining the massive lengths and time investment it takes to create a military capable of waging a galactic war, a process which takes decades and tons of political maneuvering. Then the Sequels say that no, militaries capable of waging massive wars appear out of thin air, and this happens not once, not twice, but three times across the sequels. They're both bad, in their own ways. Perhaps we just expected more out of movies when the prequels came out.
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Apr 21, 2021 03:23
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I don't think I've ever been as excited for anything as I was for episode one. After that I basically had no expectations for a movie.
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Apr 21, 2021 08:22
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Didn’t at least one Star Destroyer eat it in ESB after the battle of Hoth while navigating the asteroid field? I forgot if it was due to rocks pulverizing the shield or as I vaguely recall just incompetent captains? Why didn’t the Rebels do what the Belters did in Expanse (essentially throw rocks)? They even have a major trope of protagonists levitating rocks!
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Apr 27, 2021 06:50
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If you start asking questions like that you also have to ask why that asteroid belt, with so many asteroids so close together, isn't the industrial heart of the entire galaxy with Hoth as a 1940s Detroit in space
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Apr 27, 2021 07:27
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