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Wonder when we'll see the first PCIe gen 4 cards that aren't graphics or SSDs. USB 4 cards maybe?
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Apr 19, 2021 06:44
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I got some bad news for you, dude. PCIe 4 was never about improving speeds to devices, it was about making what devices you do have use fewer lanes, so you can cram in more devices. The only place it means anything is the datacenter.
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Apr 19, 2021 11:04
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I find it hard to care for the new interfaces hotness, when virtually all of my real I/O needs are satisfied on my 1GBps FTTH.
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Apr 19, 2021 13:43
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Additionally it simplifies motherboards by reducing the number of traces needed for the same number of devices. Hopefully helps keep cost down.
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Apr 19, 2021 14:03
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SwissArmyDruid posted:I got some bad news for you, dude. PCIe 4 was never about improving speeds to devices, it was about making what devices you do have use fewer lanes, so you can cram in more devices. The only place it means anything is the datacenter. I suspect for most desktop users, other than for the GPU, the benefit will be more nvme drive slots. Given there's marginal real-world gain from NVME over SSD anyway, you might as well do two Gen4 x2 over a single Gen4 x4 and still offer the same single drive performance as Gen3 x4.
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Apr 19, 2021 16:23
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SwissArmyDruid posted:I got some bad news for you, dude. PCIe 4 was never about improving speeds to devices, it was about making what devices you do have use fewer lanes, so you can cram in more devices. The only place it means anything is the datacenter. absofucking loutley source--I specced highend datacollection servers for the f35 program for years and all during the Skylake days clients were screaming, "we need Threadripper" and the company President was just like, "nope" 
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Apr 19, 2021 16:30
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Crunchy Black posted:absofucking loutley i love golf-oriented purchasing so much
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Apr 19, 2021 16:42
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FuturePastNow posted:Wonder when we'll see the first PCIe gen 4 cards that aren't graphics or SSDs. USB 4 cards maybe? There are super duper 100GbE+ NICs out in Gen4 but for consumers not many things past gpu and ssds anytime soon I reckon.
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Apr 19, 2021 22:00
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BurritoJustice posted:What does unbalanced mean in this context? The short answer is it makes life hard for the memory controller. Server manufacturers (and AMD themselves) issue guidance on what arrangements of DIMMs are balanced and unbalanced. Check this out as an example https://lenovopress.com/lp1268.pdf
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Apr 20, 2021 20:48
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priznat posted:There are super duper 100GbE+ NICs out in Gen4 but for consumers not many things past gpu and ssds anytime soon I reckon. re the above, and without giving too much away, F35 RADARs, Stingrays and the like can absolutely saturate an x16Gen4 ingress port if we let them. Intel's biggest problem at the moment is having the storage egress and the ingress on the same CPU, has been for 5 years+. Cause once you have to go across the NUMA link, quick as it is, you're introducing latency that is absolutely unacceptable to those use cases.
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Apr 21, 2021 06:14
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Crunchy Black posted:re the above, and without giving too much away, F35 RADARs, Stingrays and the like can absolutely saturate an x16Gen4 ingress port if we let them. drat so there really is nothing at all of any value that can saturate it then, drat.
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Apr 21, 2021 06:44
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Just a heads up for those of you dealing with USB disconnect issues, looks like a lot of the board makers are rolling out AGESA 1.2.0.2 today. There’s already a new BIOS for my ASRock board listed, going to try that tonight and hope it helps. There was already a beta BIOS for a while that supposedly had the fix baked in but I don’t like the words beta and BIOS in the same sentence so I held off. Noobles fucked around with this message at 14:24 on Apr 22, 2021 |
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Apr 22, 2021 13:52
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You probably made the right call skipping the beta bios. I have the USB disconnect problem with my x570 taichi, the beta bios solved it but introduced random hard reboots. Rolling back fixed it. If it's stable now then cool.
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Apr 22, 2021 15:52
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Crunchy Black posted:re the above, and without giving too much away, F35 RADARs, Stingrays and the like can absolutely saturate an x16Gen4 ingress port if we let them. Intel's biggest problem at the moment is having the storage egress and the ingress on the same CPU, has been for 5 years+. Cause once you have to go across the NUMA link, quick as it is, you're introducing latency that is absolutely unacceptable to those use cases. I can imagine in some pretty big SDR applications, strapping a giant UltraScale to a host machine can pretty easily eat the bandwidth with raw I/Q samples if you let it. It'll take forever, but w/ Gen4, you could get some pretty compact / neat hardware that would be great for the home market -- x2 Gen 4 NVMe drives would be plenty for folks. Only saves you 4 balls in the end, but considering the amount of lanes on some platforms... you could fit a lot more of them.
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Apr 22, 2021 16:05
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"Use fewer lanes for the same stuff" also works for things like 4k capture cards, 10g network cards, USB-C cards with 10g/20g ports
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Apr 22, 2021 16:31
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FuturePastNow posted:"Use fewer lanes for the same stuff" also works for things like 4k capture cards, 10g network cards, USB-C cards with 10g/20g ports The problem is that despite the increased number of lanes, there typically are not more ways to tap it, on a consumer board, just the usual one-or-two full length slots, with a sprinkling of 1x. Most often, the freed-up lanes take the form of additional M.2, instead of, say, a greater quantity of far-more versatile full-length PCIe. SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 03:45 on Apr 23, 2021 |
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Apr 23, 2021 03:42
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SwissArmyDruid posted:The problem is that despite the increased number of lanes, there typically are not more ways to tap it, on a consumer board, just the usual one-or-two full length slots, with a sprinkling of 1x. The B550 Taichi, for example, gives 3 full slots that can be split as 4.0/x8, 4.0x8, 3.0x4 If you need more than that then you should be getting a HEDT platfrom
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Apr 23, 2021 04:25
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I realize SFF systems are growing in popularity but I bet the typical gamer rig is still an ATX mid-tower and is going to have 3-4 x1 slots.
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Apr 23, 2021 04:27
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Inept posted:The B550 Taichi, for example, gives 3 full slots that can be split as 4.0/x8, 4.0x8, 3.0x4 And the fact that it's ASRock is about all that needs to be said. FuturePastNow posted:I realize SFF systems are growing in popularity but I bet the typical gamer rig is still an ATX mid-tower and is going to have 3-4 x1 slots.
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Apr 23, 2021 04:31
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FuturePastNow posted:I realize SFF systems are growing in popularity but I bet the typical gamer rig is still an ATX mid-tower and is going to have 3-4 x1 slots. What do people have in those? Not trying to troll, but I haven’t had a sound card in ages.
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Apr 23, 2021 04:45
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SwissArmyDruid posted:And the fact that it's ASRock is about all that needs to be said. afaik the other mobo makers have an offering like that as well for ~$250. It's not cheap but needing more than 2 full slots is pretty niche.
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Apr 23, 2021 04:50
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Twerk from Home posted:What do people have in those? Not trying to troll, but I haven’t had a sound card in ages. I have a wifi/Bluetooth card in one of mine.
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Apr 23, 2021 04:57
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Some people have a wifi card, some have a capture card, some have a NIC, some sicko freaks even have a sound card... but the vast majority of people have nothing, and most of the board makers know it. When you look at the bifurcation settings and slot spacing on a lot of boards, it’s pretty clear that those 1x slots are never intended to be used (except by miners!)
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Apr 23, 2021 05:01
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Cygni posted:some sicko freaks even have a sound card sorry if this is off-topic, but what happened that made it so that sound cards were a thing that just came with motherboards instead of needing a separate card for? I'm guessing audio processing chips (sic?) just became small enough?
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Apr 23, 2021 05:07
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I sorta remember it being a confluence of Creative putting Aureal out of business and killing 3D audio, Creatives drivers becoming bloated and unusable, and “sufficient” audio implementations of AC97 getting integrated into south bridges setting the stage for nobody bothering anymore. I guess you could say it was really just CPUs getting powerful enough to do audio in software as a side project, really. Multiplayer games and voice chat kinda killed the 4.1/5.1 PC speaker setups too, cause everybody went to headphones.
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Apr 23, 2021 05:24
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Twerk from Home posted:What do people have in those? Not trying to troll, but I haven’t had a sound card in ages.
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Apr 23, 2021 05:45
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Inept posted:The B550 Taichi, for example, gives 3 full slots that can be split as 4.0/x8, 4.0x8, 3.0x4 "if you need more than 3 slots you should be getting a HEDT platform" is a directly contradictory idea to "PCIe 4.0 is great because you can get more stuff in fewer lanes". it doesn't matter if it takes fewer lanes if you only get 3 slots anyway, you aren't going to get more devices in your system. also realistically because of the way the slots are placed and the way GPUs are growing it's getting increasingly difficult to actually use those slots. yeah OK so you get your second x8 slot in slot number 4, so that means your 3-slot GPU presses right up against it and gets its airflow choked if you actually try to put something there. Unless it's a low-profile card you basically get one device in a mid-tower and two in a full tower, that's really poo poo in terms of expansion. I have two of those little x1 slots on my motherboard, one is covered by my CPU cooler (because it's actually behind the first x16 gpu slot) and the other is in slot #3 so it's overhung by a 3-slot GPU, meaning with a 3-slot GPU I basically just get the 3 main slots and my M.2 slots. it's also really unfortunate the way AMD has gotten so out of control with HEDT pricing. Like it used to be $200 motherboard, $350 processor, and you could run more slots. Now the cheapest thing AMD offers is a $1400 processor and motherboards are running $500-600 ish apart from a couple cheapie boards around $400. Epyc is actually literally cheaper at this point, it has higher-specced boards for the cost (a board with 7x full 4.0x16 PCIe slots kind of puts the lie to the idea that HEDT boards are somehow magically expensive because of "routing costs") and extends the low end down to 8-core processors costing as little as $450 that AMD simply won't sell you when they're branded as Threadripper. now the "entry level" HEDT board+CPU is literally more expensive than a whole HEDT pc was 4 years ago, it's a great evolution from AMD, and god only knows what Zen3 threadripper prices are going to be like
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Apr 23, 2021 05:50
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Twerk from Home posted:What do people have in those? Not trying to troll, but I haven’t had a sound card in ages. All my desktops use wired internet, but when I do builds for people with mobos I've swapped out because of an upgrade, I add a wifi card.
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Apr 23, 2021 06:43
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Twerk from Home posted:What do people have in those? Not trying to troll, but I haven’t had a sound card in ages. I have a wifi card. Cards that add m.2 slots or SATA ports are also a thing that could be useful outside of specialized use cases
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Apr 23, 2021 06:48
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Paul MaudDib posted:also realistically because of the way the slots are placed and the way GPUs are growing it's getting increasingly difficult to actually use those slots. yeah OK so you get your second x8 slot in slot number 4, so that means your 3-slot GPU presses right up against it and gets its airflow choked if you actually try to put something there. Unless it's a low-profile card you basically get one device in a mid-tower and two in a full tower, that's really poo poo in terms of expansion. I think the wisdom here is that three-slot coolers are an exception and not becoming the rule. I know I draw a hard line on graphics cards that use more than dual slot. To me, having an x8/x8 bifurcated motherboard, like paying $100 more for the B550-E than the visually similar B550-F, is about sticking an m.2 host card in there. I want to just have chiplet board storage forever. no more cable management, no more case mounts.
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Apr 23, 2021 07:06
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So in the UK Scan have had 5950x for sale for a couple of days (and they've now put a price against the 5900x so much be expecting stock) and Currys have 5900x for sale since yesterday. Prices seem to be falling down back towards RRP. It definitely feels like the situation is sorting itself out. I want to replace my 1700 with a 5900 but not at the £630 Currys are asking. The Scan price is now listed as £580 which is at fairly close to the RRP.
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Apr 23, 2021 09:11
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gradenko_2000 posted:sorry if this is off-topic, but what happened that made it so that sound cards were a thing that just came with motherboards instead of needing a separate card for? I'm guessing audio processing chips (sic?) just became small enough? My "sound cards" (really just DACs) are connected via USB or optical nowadays. The latency probably isn't as good as through the old PCIe connectors, but it's good enough such that even when my mic is connected via a USB audio interface, I can hear my voice back through my headphones without the latency that would make it difficult to speak while hearing my own voice.
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Apr 23, 2021 15:48
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Paul MaudDib posted:Epyc is actually literally cheaper at this point, it has higher-specced boards for the cost (a board with 7x full 4.0x16 PCIe slots kind of puts the lie to the idea that HEDT boards are somehow magically expensive because of "routing costs") and extends the low end down to 8-core processors costing as little as $450 that AMD simply won't sell you when they're branded as Threadripper. is there even such a thing as an ATX-sized motherboard that's socketed for Epyc Milan that you could drop into a tower case and use as a personal computer? (I fully expect getting linked to an Asrock-Rack page as I ask this)
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Apr 23, 2021 16:03
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gradenko_2000 posted:is there even such a thing as an ATX-sized motherboard that's socketed for Epyc Milan that you could drop into a tower case and use as a personal computer? While EEB/CEB is more common there are plenty of ATX options. Asrock’s wacky product is an ITX epyc board! ATX: https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=ROMED8-2T#Specifications ITX: https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=ROMED4ID-2T#Specifications ok it’s actually slightly larger than ITX but whatever
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Apr 23, 2021 16:12
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Craptacular! posted:I think the wisdom here is that three-slot coolers are an exception and not becoming the rule. I know I draw a hard line on graphics cards that use more than dual slot. In the kind of PC Paul is describing, GPUs blocking >2 slots are the rule already.
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Apr 23, 2021 18:08
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orcane posted:Outside of reference models the majority of high end cards are somewhere in the 2.5- to 2.7-slot range and have been since the RTX 2000 days I mean I don't buy the high end tier cooler (ROG, FTW, whatever) in the product stack anyway. I go for lower priced, lower binned, lower clocked chips on the product stack and those usually come with two slot coolers and as a bonus I'm not paying the marketing hype fee to be a certified member of the Razer Republic Army of ESports Champions. Even in such a situation though, just stick your graphics card in the lower slot? If you have a high end case such as an O11 (or more likely O11 XL) that puts the power supply up and away and out of view, the "floor" of the motherboard chamber is open to intake fans that will direct air straight into it. The real enemy here is power supply shrouds.
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Apr 23, 2021 18:44
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I use a Pcie to m.2 adapter card because my ssd is 11cm long, while my motherboard supports only lengths up to 8cm.
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Apr 23, 2021 19:04
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gradenko_2000 posted:is there even such a thing as an ATX-sized motherboard that's socketed for Epyc Milan that you could drop into a tower case and use as a personal computer? heh yeah I've had eyes on that Asrock Rack ROMED8-2T for a while now. $550 for 7x PCIe 4.0x16 slots, dual 10gbe, and a ton of other IO. That would make a hell of a home server, and if you stick to the single-socket chips (-P suffix) the prices actually aren't bad (although they've gotten worse along with everything else computer-related). It used to be $1050 for a 24-core Epyc. https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=ROMED8-2T#Specifications as far as using it as a PC, I think the biggest problem is going to be lack of sound outputs, you would have to run that through your GPU/monitor or a separate soundcard or USB DAC/AMP. It's also pretty short on USB inputs but eh, that can be worked around mostly. The cooler should be compatible with any TR4 cooler since they share an ILM and either way I know I've seen at least one thing from Noctua with SP3 in the name.
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Apr 23, 2021 22:49
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Paul MaudDib posted:The cooler should be compatible with any TR4 cooler since they share an ILM and either way I know I've seen at least one thing from Noctua with SP3 in the name. The only wrinkle is that most epyc boards have the socket rotated 90 degrees from a threadripper one, so a threadripper heatsink will have top/bottom airflow instead of front/back.
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Apr 23, 2021 23:40
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Cygni posted:I sorta remember it being a confluence of Creative putting Aureal out of business and killing 3D audio, Creatives drivers becoming bloated and unusable, I remember that. That was when Turtle Beach came along and ate Creative's lunch with their tiny little cut-down sound card, IIRC. Man, I thought those guys were going to blow up big. And then yeah, those AC97-compliant chips started coming out.
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Apr 23, 2021 23:57
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