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Impure love also acceptable
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Apr 25, 2021 22:05
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Ibram Gaunt posted:I can't say I regret my time spent on muv-luv but the longer time goes by the more I think Alternative wasn't actually that great. Alternative is very exciting in the moment, but I look back more fondly on Unlimited now that it's been a few years since I played them all in one hit.
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Apr 26, 2021 07:37
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Gaius Marius posted:Well you have to do meiya and sumika before you can move on. Also meiya us by and by far the best Everytime I hear "Meiya" I just think "noble confidante" and laugh. Something about her character is sort of amusingly sad. Luceid posted:Alternative is very exciting in the moment, but I look back more fondly on Unlimited now that it's been a few years since I played them all in one hit. Nice to see other people with this opinion. I liked the first portion of Alternative quite a bit, though. Not sure what fraction of the overall story it comprises, but roughly until it starts becoming more action-packed.
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Apr 26, 2021 08:12
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Jesus Christ
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Apr 26, 2021 08:46
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ACES CURE PLANES posted:Jesus Christ 
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Apr 26, 2021 09:37
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There's a lot going on and it has me feeling a very specific way
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Apr 26, 2021 10:16
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Alternative is infamously brutal, and there are a couple scenes in particular that'll gently caress with even the most hardened gamer It's absolutely worth it. But buckle up
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Apr 26, 2021 22:21
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Just jumped into House in Fata Morgana and man, the art and music are great but I loving hate Mell so far. Someone please tell me that his story/part/whatever is at least somewhat short
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Apr 29, 2021 04:54
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it's only a small chunk
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Apr 29, 2021 05:21
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The Colonel posted:it's only a small chunk Ah cool. Just got to a part whose title mentions "fast-acting poison" so I'm assuming I'm near the end of part 1 lol
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Apr 29, 2021 05:56
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Alrighty so I'm gonna try and parse my thoughts covering my last session, since I took a few days off to recharge. It's gonna fail miserably but I'm gonna try. Just gonna probably throw the whole thing up in spoilers because while I'm sure I can cover a lot of it vaguely enough and it's probably well trodden ground, if I'm only going through it right now there may be someone else who has dilly dallied this long, idk, but I'm liking things enough that I would hate to ruin something for them. -Gonna be honest, I was pretty excited about the whole 'tournament arc' idea with the new OS training thing but something in the atmosphere seemed... Off. Takeru has kinda jumped between being a smug prick and an absolute wreck and this was kinda his height of smug prickness.I mean, I get it, it's to set him up high before cutting him off at the knees but god drat was it kinda hard to read. But the whole thing with the legit nice guy squad being introduced so soon after you had stuff like the (ostensibly) good guy-ish american forces being nice right before they got taken out, it seemed very obvious that they were intending Something Bad to happen. But I'll get back to that in a sec. -The attack seemed normal enough for a Muv Luv action scene but what threw me through a loop was the hypnosis trigger sequence. I know they had talked about stimulants and stuff setting off pilots before with Chizuru and such but that scene was kinda the first time they really show you the hosed up ness of the military beyond just vaguely uncomfortably militaristic fervor. Does the hypnosis ever come up before this point, and I just zoned out over it? Either way, at the end of the attack I was totally expecting Takeru to get killed and start another loop but nope. -Instead we got That Scene. I don't think I can really say more beyond the Jesus Christ from earlier, but also the whole thing about the Something Bad from earlier does kinda roll around from being an obvious marker to a pretty decent piece of misdirection in my mind. You go from Takeru being smug and overconfident and getting praised to high heaven setting up a very obvious poo poo goes south moment, to freaking out and being saved and comforted which makes it seem like he's gotten through the worst and then bam, that happens to make things even worse just when you thought you were in the clear. It came out after such a tense moment that it just left me feeling empty, which I suppose was the intent but god drat. -Literally everything after that, from the interrogation to the pushing down Meiya to the running back 'home' and the being an rear end in a top hat to everyone there made me feel sick to my stomach. Just absolutely miserable. It's understandable, mind you, and I can't say that in the same situation I wouldn't find it hard to go back to a life like that but jesus. -And just when it can't get even more hosed up the entire thing with 'home' marimo. And then there's the thing with seeing Meiya's memories fade right in front of us was also a pretty nasty bit of knife twisting, at least for me. And even for me not liking Sumika, the explanation and memory fading and flashbacks to the diaries that we see in early Extra was a gut punch. Past that is kinda a blur between the big infodumps that 'home' and 'alternate' Yuuko give and the new introductions, but all I can say about that whole segment is A. i am extremely worried for our 'new' squadmates and B. holy gently caress yuuko is a piece of poo poo. Overall I definitely am engrossed but man this game knows how to pull at my strings. One thing though that I can't really do is assert my preference for any given game so far because honestly, everything has been linked so tightly and called back to so regularly that I can't really mentally register them as different games at this point. I'm sure a lot of that has to do with playing them all back to back like this with basically no stops but it's just been such a tightly knit experience so far. I guess I'll see how things play out by the time I get to the end.
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Apr 29, 2021 08:05
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Muv Luv was originally intended to be one game yeah.
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Apr 29, 2021 10:16
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ljulqkkw6Ik Wow, hell of a time for this to happen. Guess now that it's coming back into popular consciousness I'm gonna have to start chugging so as to not see something that's gonna spoil me on stuff.
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May 1, 2021 13:11
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Also sorry for a double post but I just got past the island in alternative and God I can't stand the whole constantly beating me over the head with 'boy I sure am not interested in meiya' shtick. Feels like it happens every time she shows up and it's really starting to grate. Having an extended one immediately after the big gut wrenching event and a not so subtle 'hey you should bone down sumika' suggestion from the doc sure spoils the whole gradual cooling down from the emotional high
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May 1, 2021 21:45
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Any must-plays worth looking into in the Steam Golden Week sale right now?
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May 1, 2021 22:59
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Umineko
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May 1, 2021 23:00
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fata morgana ai 428: shibuya scramble the silver case 25th ward The Colonel fucked around with this message at 23:55 on May 1, 2021 |
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May 1, 2021 23:53
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Played Umineko and Fata Morgana already, and I own AI, but I picked up 428, Silver Case, and 25th Ward. Thanks for the recs. 
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May 2, 2021 04:39
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428's a really fun ride and i'm a huge fan of the silver case/fsr/25th ward trilogy so i hope you enjoy
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May 2, 2021 05:07
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And I'm finished with alternative. boy it takes a hell of a game to have me go from a weeping wreck to bittersweet laughing, albeit admittedly still emotional over it, ironically at pretty much the same times takeru did in the epilogue I'm gonna have to compose my thoughts after this but overall I have to say, I'm super glad I finally got to experience this series. Highs and lows I think it was great.
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May 2, 2021 16:08
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ACES CURE PLANES posted:And I'm finished with alternative. I was going to say that you finished it pretty quickly, but after looking at my own logs I think I also finished it in one week. What a game, huh? It's one of my favorite stories of all time, and while it's had some (understandable) pushback here and elsewhere, I don't think any other VN could top it for me. I still can't listen to that soundtrack without crying
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May 4, 2021 02:37
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Asu e no houkou stills got a place on my workout playlist. What a loving opening. One thing I'll give Alt is I don't think it has a single moment of real downtime, It's hitting highs constantly
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May 4, 2021 02:39
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And now I just finished Altered Fable. Gotta say, it made for a pretty good healing experience after Alternative. I can't say I'm a super fan of all the weird spy poo poo that kinda sneaks in all over the place, or the 'all a dream' kinda thing with the simulation machine but overall I feel it was a real good capstone. Despite it making a good endcap, I'm a little sad to see it end here. I'm probably gonna end up doing more routes in it just to kinda round it out a bit better. That said I do wish the ending had a bit more, idk how to put it, finality to it? I get that it's trying to go for a 'and so the wacky hijinks continue', maybe to leave things open for the future or something, but it would've been nice for a little flash forward to things settling down like Extra had but hey that's admittedly nitpicking. Either way it definitely felt refreshing, like taking the weights from Alternative off.
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May 7, 2021 03:21
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It’s nice going through a vn and getting obsessed with a song in it and learning it on piano. Just got through the House in Fata Morgana proper and still have the requiem and reincarnation parts to go. Cicio will just be stuck in my head for a long time.
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May 11, 2021 17:32
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Weird BIAS posted:It’s nice going through a vn and getting obsessed with a song in it and learning it on piano. Just got through the House in Fata Morgana proper and still have the requiem and reincarnation parts to go. Even years later cicio gets stuck in my head still.
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May 11, 2021 18:41
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Whoa i got my first muv luv reaction this really is the new VN thread
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May 12, 2021 21:52
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I started Higurashi from reading all the praise it got in this thread and I'm liking it so far, just finished chapter 2. I noticed something, but I can't find anywhere to search the game scripts to make sure I got it right: in chapter 2 during the festival, Mion reminds Keiichi of who Takano is by saying she's a nurse at the clinic that you went to that one time he got a cold... but I don't remember Keiichi getting sick in chapter 2. That was something that happened in chapter 1, wasn't it?
batteries! fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Jun 3, 2021 |
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Jun 3, 2021 17:37
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ACES CURE PLANES posted:And now I just finished Altered Fable. Gotta say, it made for a pretty good healing experience after Alternative. I can't say I'm a super fan of all the weird spy poo poo that kinda sneaks in all over the place, or the 'all a dream' kinda thing with the simulation machine but overall I feel it was a real good capstone. Is this the partial fan-made translation patch, or is there an official release out? I'm completely out of the loop.
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Jun 3, 2021 18:24
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I got it in photonmelodies on steam back when it was on sale recently.
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Jun 3, 2021 18:39
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Altered Fable is one of the stories in Photonmelodies, it's on Steam.
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Jun 3, 2021 18:39
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batteries! posted:I started Higurashi from reading all the praise it got in this thread and I'm liking it so far, just finished chapter 2. I noticed something, but I can't find anywhere to search the game scripts to make sure I got it right: in chapter 2 during the festival, Mion reminds Keiichi of who Takano is by saying she's a nurse at the clinic that you went to that one time he got a cold... but I don't remember Keiichi getting sick in chapter 2. That was something that happened in chapter 1, wasn't it? This happens sometimes- the game will indicate things you saw in a previous arc also happened in the timeline of this arc, it just didn't get rehashed. For the most part you don't have to read much into it, if something's referenced and not shown just assume it happened the way you previously saw it (or it just doesn't matter too much).
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Jun 3, 2021 20:20
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Makes sense, thanks. Finished chapter 3 and it immediately does the same with the curry contest recaps. And I was feeling so clever by having spotted that... Chapter 3 hits so drat hard. The violence, the abuse and the descent into madness had me missing Mion's quaint torture dungeon and serial homicide. That chapter intro about difficulty was very on point. I keep reviewing 1 and 2 in my mind and I still can't piece together much, but 3 feels like a turning point. Probably gonna look really stupid in a couple of chapters, but: Tomitake and Takano: at a glance, they're the only constants so far. They're the key to all of this but I don't see how they fit. 3 makes it clear Takano either kills or plays a role in Tomitake's death, and that got me thinking. Is Mion always involved in their deaths, or was 2 just misdirection? Why is the manner of their deaths so different? It reminded me of a tip in chapter 1, where the police identify the burned body with dental records from a clinic - was it the clinic Tomitake worked at? Then it got me thinking about the conclusion in 1, where Keiichi's note is tampered by Oishi - he removes the syringe, but he also removes a section of text, where Keiichi asked the police to investigate the victims again, thinking that some of the deaths could have been faked. Why would he do that, unless Keiichi blundered into something important? I think Tomitake isn't dead, and Oishi is helping the coverup. The eyes: all I got for this comes from sleep deprivation and weird associations but throughout the chapters these moments of time dilation happen and I just assumed it was the narrative describing adrenaline, but chapter 3 does it differently. I don't know if this is just a trick of the translation, but all of the descriptions are straight up medical in nature. Keiichi spells out that he feels his lung capacity increasing, that his body temperature shifts, that he stops feeling tired and that the "pathways between his cells increase". It got me thinking back to the conclusion to 2 and how Mion mentions canned human flesh. Was the story just slander against the village, or was it real? It got me thinking about Kuru disease and how all of this could be caused by a medical condition. I can sort of see how the village residents would be infected, but I can't account for Keiichi. It would also tie in nicely with the mystery syringes. batteries! fucked around with this message at 12:24 on Jun 4, 2021 |
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Jun 4, 2021 12:21
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Keep up the thoughts and speculation. I enjoy hearing it.
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Jun 4, 2021 13:16
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Ooh, more Higurashi talk. I try to stay out of here too much in case I accidentally roll over an Umineko spoiler since that's a "down the line" thing for me to read, but I recently finished up Ch 4 of Higurashi on this end and was gonna post thoughts after a few days of stewing, so I can chime in on this too. I'll split my thoughts up on Ch 3 and Ch 4's events and my general Question Arc speculation as well, just so batteries! can read some of my thoughts afterwards without any of my theories immediately impacting their own. Apologies on the sheer size of things, since it's like 4 novels worth of stuff! Higurashi Chapter 3 spoilers: Yeah, I very much agreed with you in regards to this chapter batteries!, 3 has a much different tone going in than I expected. After 2 chapters of supernaturally-themed murder mystery, the setting for this one being based around a child in an abusive situation was honestly a lot heavier hitting than I expected. Doubly so since I'd heard that he worked as a social worker prior to writing stuff, so he'd be very aware of what those sorts of situation would entail. Getting to see Keiichi's perspective of things throughout was also a real change from how things were presented in Ch 1/2, and helped provide a hell of a lot more to speculate about like you mention. Higurashi Chapter 4 situation spoilers (fine to read after completing it): I actually quite liked this chapter, as short as it was. Getting to see more of Rika's PoV on events as well as Dam-era Hinamizawa was nice, and I liked Akasaka's character quite a bit. Surprisingly enough, it also helped me come around on Ooishi a bit here as a whole. After previous chapters I still think he has an awful way of interacting with the townspeople (especially from the school scene in Ch 3), but I do also see that as badly as he handles things, he is a decent person at heart who wants to find the truth. I especially like the endings of the main text with the book due to the VN parallel, as well as the Afterparty and its thoughts about Higurashi itself. I'm laughing that this ended up being an "extra" though sinced Ch 3 introduced Meakashi as next, considering the stuff it introduces. General Higurashi Questions Arc 1-4 thoughts/**big** spoilers all the way to the bottom here (may wanna sit back and form your own opinions on events before reading this: So, yeah, after Ch 4 I'm very much in the boat that this is all a series of "mundane" events being observed from a supernatural viewpoint. The meta-discussion from Afterparty 4 saying "Higurashi is a game right here, where you can think and talk about all the possibilities" along with the Red/Blue Box TIP have me feeling like this. It seems to be implying on a meta level that the most fun is in that moment where anything is possible, before the truth is confirmed and was likely not as exciting/sinister as anything you'd thought up, so I feel that most of this being human-driven fits in with that theme a lot more. In particular, I think it's because the events are set up so they can have a supernatural explanation, which as readers of what we know is fiction, we can accept as far more likely to believe that is the case than anyone within the setting (and are likely biased towards thinking is the case anyway). For specifics, I'm in the same boat as batteries! on the madness/"possession", where it's a local disease. Considering the gas from the Disaster had folks elsewhere act in a similar manner, and that the swamp is connected to "Hell" and "demons" both, I'm guessing that the swampwater is full of the same stuff due to being connected to the underground deep down and that anyone who drinks the local water catches it (since there was Ch 4 talk of the swamp maybe being linked to other bodies of water, like waterways). I also assume that the lower levels of the village also have higher concentrations of it due to how the Disaster gas worked, like the Sonozaki torture chambers where a whole lot of messed up stuff went on, or the ritual storehouse where Satoko implies that the "world changed" after sneaking in at one point, and where Tomitake and Takano likely picked up enough of a dose to go on a mutual killing spree. It looks to trigger based on stress considering Mion, Keiichi, and likely Satoshi's mental states at the times they snapped, and is affected by heat considering Keiichi really struggled under warmer conditions in Ch 3, which would make sense on why it doesn't happen too often with Hinamizawa using being warm as hell usually. The murders/curse I'm not too sure on at the moment. The "village enemies" ones were likely Oryou's will in order to consolidate power post-Dam movement, but with Satoshi's disappearance and the Ch 3 talk and parallels with his actions, I think the more recent ones may have been folks getting infected and the "curse killings" taking on a life of their own (followed by the Sonozaki's "cleaning things up"). So that would be the aunt being killed by Satoshi, with Satoshi being taken out by the Sonozakis afterwards, then an infected Takano and Tomitake being the next perceived set. Considering Mion would never accede to Rika's death though, I don't think that her death was planned as a "curse" one. With Irie's suicide I think that he was likely the one forced to do the deed by someone else, taking his life afterwards to atone/from guilt, but as for who would have been the mastermind I'm not entirely sure. While I'd have thought it was Takano due to the clinic relation, her personality generally rubbing me the wrong way and her being involved in Tomitake's death/dumping outside the village, she's usually long dead by that point.... is what I'd have said before, but after that last post about the dental identification and faked deaths, I'm leaning towards that again, As for motive, probably as a means to prove/disprove/expose some of her theories on the folklore in that messed up "clear headed" state after her infection, considering that it seems to drive people to act upon their deepest obsessions in awful ways (love, friendship, Oyashiro-sama worship, etc). Rika is the only thing I know as 100% supernatural right now, as the text looks to be implying it's her reliving her life upon dying instead of it being precognition (via the TIPs on boredom/random changes from the norm due to reliving the same life, her incredibly developed life skills, and her actual personality being older/more serious). What I'm not too sure on are the doppelgangers though, as I can't think of any 1980s explanation for how you could fool an entire village on these, and the Sonozaki family do have that "twins are messed up" prejudice going for them. Rika was the one first talking to "Keiichi" at the festival so it could be another potential supernatural thing involving her I guess, but that sorta flies in the face of my overall thoughts on the themes and I don't have enough to go either way on this just yet. I do think that considering Ch 2 having no Disaster when the village higher-ups were dead that it was a manmade nuclear option after Rika's death, likely as a "Oyashiro-sama is real, and we'll gently caress up Japan to prove it" method, probably to preserve the Sonozaki influence within and without? Guess I'll find out more on that further in. As for my final thoughts on where things are going, I'm guessing that the thing that causes events to go out of control is the ritual storehouse being broken into, since folks get infected down there and that causes the (non-Mion) events to go into motion, and that things need to be just right in terms of the "choices" made by the characters in order to prevent it (rather than the player for once). I don't know if Rika will try to tell anyone else about her knowledge of future events stemming from this as part of final solution or not, since her actual older personality may clash with her intended goal of surviving to life a happy life alongside her friends, but that may be the only way she can reach her goal considering she's powerless on that one night. Still, after reading Ch 4 I do hope that her happy ending somehow branches off from a path where Akasaka takes her warning seriously and goes home, resulting in a timeline where he doesn't distance himself from Hinamizawa in order to forget the past. This is partially because having a non-Ooishi cop there to not mess things up could help a lot, but I'll also admit that I'd like to see everyone get their happy endings if it comes to it, and his wife and Satoshi's survivals would at least help contribute to that for himself and Satoko. Still, considering the game itself was encouraging the discussion and sharing of theories on events, I hope that anyone reading this big block of text enjoyed seeing what someone fresh reading through was thinking at this point! In any case, I'm very much enjoying the series so far, and I'll likely see about hopping into the console arc stuff afterwards since it looks to be nearly done, and it'll be fresh in my mind. I'm aware of the PS3 version of some of the Miotsukushi stuff in that being controversial due to plot changes I think it was, so I'll read the original first at least, but is it worth reading the other version afterwards for any major differences? Other than that, (sorta overall spoilers again) I'm also aware that the new show is also another sort of pseudo-sequel. Anyone have any feedback on at what point it's safe to start watching that in regards to having specific Higurashi parts read?
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Jun 4, 2021 20:42
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you shouldn't watch gou at all until you've read the entire original eight chapters
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Jun 4, 2021 21:15
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The Colonel posted:you shouldn't watch gou at all until you've read the entire original eight chapters That's what I was thinking since that's the core story, but thank you for the confirm!
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Jun 4, 2021 21:35
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I was thinking on taking a break before chapter 4, but having someone to bounce ideas off is a lot of fun - it's good advice at the end of that Afterparty. Here's my black bar dump: Chapter 3 & 4: hearing the author worked as a social worker explains why it's so well written. I had my doubts at the start but everything is so depressingly real, down to the friend and teacher reactions. It really hammers home that Keichii is just a kid and how empathic Rena is. I was a bit cold on Chapter 4 as soon as it ended, probably the chapter I've enjoyed the least so far. Rika doesn't get a lot of spotlight, Mion is just in a handful of scenes, and you get nothing interesting on Oishi until right before the end. Akasaka is okay, but he's too much of a blank slate. The mahjong scene wants to make him endearing but it falls a bit flat when you don't understand a lot of what's going on. It's not badly written or anything, but I think it ends up revealing a lot, too fast. I'm a little surprised that it wasn't planned from the start, but it makes sense given that it's so differently structured than the last chapters. I liked reading your notes and I think we're mostly in agreement, barring a couple of things. Cause: I didn't come up with an explanation for the disease transmission but water/gas is elegant, trying to match it with the geography makes sense. I'm still not sure about the mechanism but people who move away like Rena could remain infected, the disease is just dormant. Stress as the trigger fits her incident as well: her four classmates said or did something they shouldn't, and she snapped. The one thing I don't see fitting is Shion: she breaks into the storehouse with Keiichi in chapter 2, is under extreme duress but there's no signs of anything abnormal. Well, abnormal beyond what you'd expect from someone who just witnessed several torture murders over a period of days while waiting her turn. I don't think she's the one that stabs Keiichi based on what is said, but a lot of that ending still doesn't make sense to me. Murders: I'm not exactly sure on the wording here but I remember Rika explaining to Akasaka that the authors and reasons for the murders are always the same. She's the sole exception, which leads me to think all of it is on the Sonozaki family. She points out that her parents are killed, and it's not an accident. I think Mion and her family are either responsible or directly involved in all the previous deaths. There's a few things that don't fit in the kidnapping too - Mion's grandmother is shown as a compassionate woman, she has no intentions of killing the kid. In one of the tips, she relays her wishes to Mion, and Mion doesn't seem to take it well. She excuses herself to talk to her father, but you don't see what she says. Did she order the kid to be killed, and that's why the kidnapping finale is so bizarre? Why drop the kid's wallet and then make a show of resisting? At the end of chapter 1, Mion curses having spared Oishi's life on a previous occasion. Was this what she meant? Was he in on the farce? Rika: I think we're both in agreement here, she's definitely looping and experiencing different timelines, but this is also one of the reasons why I didn't enjoy chapter 4 that much: it comes off too strong. I feel that several of the tips like red box/blue box spell out a lot that should've been pieced out slower or later, but I could be wrong with a lot of my conclusions. There is one thing that I might be reading too much into, but I think it fits well: adding choices for the first time in the story as a parallel to how Rika perceives reality feels like a great touch of metanarrative. Like the player, she navigates the timelines by influencing the world as best as she can, but she doesn't have the power of an adult or the independence of an outsider so her choices are much more limited. She's bored because she's seen a lot of it before and if you read into this, possibly far too many times. I like to think the reason she picks up housework skills is because she has to take care of Satoko in every timeline - it's mentioned that the villagers would trip over themselves to feed her if that's what she wanted, but Satoko would be left out in the cold. Mion: this is another fake death tier theory but it matches with her grandmother's characterization and helps explain the progression of events. In chapter 2, it's not stated that Mion tortured or killed her grandmother, but there is a mention of her body being found at the bottom of the well. I think Mion has orchestrated every murder since the the kidnapping was resolved. Her grandmother either died of natural causes or is killed by her, and she maintains her role of speaking on her behalf. That's why there's such a big shift after the kidnapping: her grandmother was still alive and in power. Once Mion assumes complete control, she has no issues resorting to murder, and she orders the death of anyone who she feels has wronged the village right up until Tomitake and Rika's murder. The village is known for maintaing alibis and misinforming strangers, so it's plausible that Mion asks people to state that they see her grandmother at a meeting every now and again. Oishi says that her grandmother was under surveillance, but never outright states that she's been seen. Keiichi also visits Mion's house a couple of times and she's always nervous when he asks for a visit - her grandmother is never seen on those occasions. Rena: 4 chapters later I got nothing on her. She purposefully plays the airhead but she's extremely informed and reads others easily. She's cooperating with Mion but not all of her knowledge is explained by the use of the Sonozaki network. I think a lot of her story is still obscured by the incident in her previous school, but it's clear that she knows more than what she lets on, especially regarding Satoshi. It's telling that he's a stress factor for her, with Keiichi's behaviour being so similar with his being one of the causes for her breakdown in chapter 1. It's very interesting that both her and Mion seem to be responsible for keeping the peace and that they will drop everything and immediately work in tandem to isolate Keiichi and inject him once they suspect him of cooperating with Oishi or believing he's murdered someone. Satoko: I had some notes scribbled about her, but not much. She's a solid, fun character that helps the group dynamic, but I'm a little angry at myself: after chapter 3 I find it hard to view her as anything but the victim. There's something going on based on what she says before shoving Keiichi off the cliff, but there's nothing I can think as really suspicious, at least compared to Keiichi's other friends. Maybe I just don't want to look into it too hard. Oishi: chapter 4 tries to paint him in a sympathetic light but just like you mention, the school scene in the previous draws some uncomfortable parallels with the rest of the arc. Keiichi is told that the most competent abusers know how to cause pain without leaving marks, and Oishi makes a big show of this during that scene, I don't think it was a coincidence. Looking back, I don't remember anything indicates that he was the first one to find Keiichi's note in his room in chapter 1, but I'm still convinced he was the one that tampered with it and removed both the syringe as well as the mention of fake deaths. Tomitake and Takano: I agree that Mion would never order Rika's death except in the timelines where she snaps like 2. So assuming Tomitake is dead and Takano faked her death, she becomes a natural candidate to kill Rika. I don't know the "why", but it stands to reason that all three murders that don't fit the previous pattern of one murder/one disappearence a year would be directly related with each other. Unifying theory: assuming that Rika is really looping, this helps recontextualize chapter 3, as well as the death/disappearance events. Keiichi mentions this but you can't be too sure on his musings since he's in the middle of a nervous breakdown. I think he was being literal when he said he was sent to a cursed world - by killing or by his infection rapidly progressing, he got booted from his current timeline and sent to another. He overwrites himself in the new timeline, and disappears from his previous one. That's why every murder in the previous years is accompanied by a disappearance, it's the murderer being shifted. I think that's what the doppelganger bit refers to, but it's another you replacing yourself. Satoshi's bat not being in the locker when Keiichi checks it is something that doesn't fit and I can't come up with an explanation. I think the drug in the syringe only affects people already infected with the disease and causes their suicide, possibly a way to safely remove dangerous elements from the current timeline. It's a throwaway line, but at some point Oishi or Akasaka remark that the local clinic looks very advanced for a place serving a remote village. If you accept that Takano is involved with Tomitake's death, then she must have had contact with the drug. And from there, it's not a big stretch to assume Irie is involved as well, with his unexplained suicide. batteries! fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Jun 5, 2021 |
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Jun 5, 2021 23:11
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batteries! posted:I was thinking on taking a break before chapter 4, but having someone to bounce ideas off is a lot of fun - it's good advice at the end of that Afterparty. Bouncing stuff back here on your thoughts here as well. General Higurashi 1-4 spoilers below: In regards to the doppelgangers, I'm still unsure as to the cause being supernatural or not, but I'm leaning away from it being world-shifting for two reasons in particular, the first being how Uncle Houjou's twin turns up after the murder. My one thought (which I left out from sheer size last time) is that there may be one supernatural entity that can do this, which took Keiichi's place at the festival and then returned "home" as Teppei directly afterwards. If that is the case, I'm not sure on the why though. I'd initially thought it could be a supernatural element that helped cover for the murderers as part of the curse, but that doesn't fit with my thoughts then leaning towards human-directed murder. I'd also considered it could be Rika intervening with it on Keiichi's behalf in that instance, but that then wouldn't explain other appearances. The second point was how Satoko mentions how the world "changed" after visiting the ritual storehouse as a kid. I'm more inclined to believe the world stuff is just an altered perception of things after being infected due to that. The doppelgangers could also be a general perception-related thing due to the disease as well though, since the TIP with Satoko in the bath has her somewhat realizing that whoever/whatever is with her is just as cruel as someone she feels is already dead, and that could be the heat dampening its effect on her in that instance. This doesn't 100% fit with her actions after finding out about the deaths since it's more of a surprise to her then, but if that was her returning to "normal" in cooler conditions it somewhat could I suppose. Murders: Actually, on your point regarding the mention of the murders and reasons remaining the same, here's a thought: The masterminds are the same every year, and the purposeful infection of those most likely to kill the target is merely the method of killing (barring Rika). This would leave one visible death per incident as well as one killer who could then be cleaned up afterwards, and if the ruling families are aware of the disease due to their long reign in the area it could make for an incredibly hard to trace (albeit unreliable) method of murder due to the local folklore. If Satoshi was indeed the one who killed his aunt for example, this could have been due to the aunt being targeted for that year and his being identified as the most suitable "tool" to do so. It would also explain his later disappearance if it was a cleanup job, as he had been confirmed to have bought Satoko's present just prior to going missing. Keiichi in Ch 3 could also have been identified for the same role as well during that meeting with Mion, as he could have been eavesdropped on there and had his hatred of Teppei identified. If I was to think on the culprits though, I'd probably put it down to being a sub-faction of the Sonozaki family more than Mion/Oryou directly though, considering I still feel that Mion wouldn't stand for that, and Oryou's will being interpreted in an extreme way by someone else would be more likely. This could also tie into the doctoring of Keiichi's Ch 1 message about some deaths being faked if it's the case as well. Rika: Oh yeah, you make a good point on how those skills could've been specifically trained up to help Satoko there. I'd honestly immediately assumed the worst case scenario of her just being around for a long time, long enough that she's just become competent out of who knows how many years of practice alone. The choices thing I didn't enable if it's the 07th Mod option you mean there specifically, as I'm going through as close to the original PC release here which didn't have those. General Characters: Generally I'm willing to believe in the main cast myself, considering if Rika is aiming to survive alongside her friends, Mion would probably be included in that group. If she does indeed know enough in order to have an idea of who is behind things and it was one of her friend group, I don't know if she would continue interacting with them each loop (at least in terms of if their "base" personality was one willing to do that, without any of the crazy stuff going on). Beyond Oishi being the trigger for a bunch of stuff going to poo poo post-Watanagashi, I'm also inclined to lean towards him still trying to solve the case as a police officer, even with all his flaws. I still have a lot of questions on the other characters at this point where I feel I'd need to play on though, like if Irie is always involved in the main killings or just for Rika, would Shion count as a close friend or would she be a potential suspect, etc.
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Jun 6, 2021 00:52
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realize i forgot to crosspost about this hereSnooze Cruise posted:OK I finished Lady in Mystery, 10/10, greatest VN ever.
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Jun 6, 2021 05:55
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Arc Impulse posted:Bouncing stuff back here on your thoughts here as well. General Higurashi 1-4 spoilers below: I thought about the possibility of the murders not being intended by Mion or her grandmother, but it doesn't add up that they'd happen for years in a row without either of them taking direct action - the "just thinking outloud" style of organising your crime syndicate wouldn't work for long if your underlings act against your wishes. Mion is also shown as not really giving a poo poo about the kid's life during the kidnapping, and in the tip where she calls her dad it looks like it could really go both ways for all she cares. I want to believe in them, especially my cute and fun tomboy but that torture dungeon is not a good look. The tools in the storehouse are old and in disrepair, but the tools in the cave are described as maintained and ready to go. Chapter 2 was a very specific sequence of events and a... bad week for Mion, but it still shows that she's capable. It's a sign of good writing that we still sympathize and care for these characters after we see their darker sides. Few people are outright monsters, everyone acts differently based on their circumstances and events. Now that you brought it up, I hadn't thought of how Rika would react to this, it's possible she doesn't know exactly who is ordering the deaths. If you looped your life 100 times and your friends get a little antsy and kill you in say, 1 of those loops, would you stop being friends with them from that point on? It feels as though she's accepted that there's fixed points in the timeline like the death of her parents - it's possible she's tried to run before or shun her friends and realized that there's no point. Really looking forward to see how this plays out in Shion's view, gonna try to start 5 today.
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Jun 7, 2021 12:38
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