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Lurdiak posted:I mean if all McDonald's would shut down a lot of people would also lose their job but I don't think anyone would accuse someone who wants McDonald's to go away of being anti-employment. *joker laugh* 
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Apr 29, 2021 16:23
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josh04 posted:*joker laugh* Truly history's greatest monster.
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Apr 29, 2021 16:26
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Lurdiak posted:Man that is clearly not the kind of thing I was talking about. My issue with theaters is exclusively with the "release to theaters first because we imagine it's more profitable" system because I generally prefer watching things at home. I don't literally want the entire medium shut down for good, with like armed troopers raiding rogue theaters that stay open. You don't have to interpret everything people say as the most extreme possible version of the statement just to argue against it. I mean, I feel like you did the same thing to me, I didn't mention job numbers at all. I just replied to what I thought was a bad analogy about McDonalds with an also bad analogy about every restaurant closing.
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Apr 29, 2021 16:27
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Yeah Ludiak is being a weird rear end in a top hat about one of the most enjoyable communal experiences in American history. It's especially stupid when you consider: 1) WB has already committed to same-day releasing of all of its movies to HBO Max. 2) Disney is clearly moving in the direction of having same-day releases of all of its movies on D+, and whenever Star launches I'm sure that's where all the Miramax/Fox Searchlight/etc stuff will get dumped same-day as well. 3) A significant, growing minority of movies are being produced, distributed, or both by streaming services, which obviously do same-day releases of their films. Let's go over the Best Picture nominees for 2021: The Sound of Metal was an Amazon Prime distributed film, and therefore had a same-day release on streaming. Judas and The Black Messiah was distributed by WB and therefore had a same-day release on HBO Max. The Trial of the Chicago 7 was a Netflix distributed film, and therefore had a same-day release on streaming. Mank was a Netflix distributed film, and therefore had a same-day release on streaming. Nomadland was a Fox Searchlight distributed film through Disney. This had a same-day release on streaming, possibly influenced by COVID; however, there's no reason to believe that Star won't host this film, especially considering how Disney has handled all of its internally produced and distributed films. The Father was a Sony Pictures Classics distributed film that had a same-day release on streaming. We can argue that this rollout was influenced by COVID; however, it was released extremely late, basically right before the Oscars window closed, so it could have had a solely theatrical run if it wanted especially considering it came out during the otherwise barren wasteland of late February right after theaters started reopening. Minari was an A24 distributed film. This had a same-day release on streaming, possibly influenced by COVID, but it isn't exactly like A24 is some major blockbuster powerhouse that counted on theatrical returns to make a profit. I could easily see them committing to same-day releases of all their future films, or at worst some sort of extremely shortened window between theatrical and digital release - like a week or two at worst. Promising Young Woman was a Focus distributed film. It had no same-day release, but also sucked poo poo, so. So of the eight nominees, six had same-day releases on streaming and were released in such a way that there's no reason to believe that won't be the rollout for future films distributed by those studios. One had a same-day release possibly influenced by COVID but there's a very good chance that'll be the new model movie forward, and one is the odd man out with absolutely no digital release schedule outside of the norm. The damage of COVID to theaters has already been done. So much of why theaters got to command the respect they received was because there was an incorrect supposition by studios that theaters had more power than they did, and everyone involved sort of just went along with it because they didn't want to upset the apple cart. It was only when COVID forced theaters to shut down and studios released their major tentpoles on streaming and realized that virtually none of their income was actually lost that they woke up and went "we should just do streaming releases from now on". You can't unring that bell; the entire theater/studio relationship was predicated on willful ignorance on both sides' parts. It is quite literally the same situation that the ESA and major video game publishers are going through where COVID forced them to pull out of the expensive and unnecessary event that is E3, and suddenly all these publishers realized they could save a bundle of cash and do the same messaging as before via streaming. If you want to live a theater-less life, the inflection point has already passed and I guarantee that within the next 5 years the only movies that will have purely theatrical releases will be the like three or four major blockbusters that come out a year. Your MCU movies, your Fast and Furious series films, etc. Every other movie - every other one will have a simultaneous release. Then at worst you can view going to the theater as like going to an amusement park, where you go out to have a fun entertainment experience somewhere else a couple of times a year. Like...this level of vitriol against a pretty loving rad way to experience film is pretty hosed up, because you're litigating a war you've already won. And it was a peaceful surrender; the one positive thing you can say about COVID is that it made studios wake up and realize that theaters needed them way more than they needed theaters, and at this point all the theaters can really do is shrug their shoulders and bite their lips. They tried to start some poo poo with Universal over Trolls 2, it didn't work, and now they're just resigned to their fate.
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Apr 29, 2021 16:27
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Skwirl posted:I wonder how much of that is directors. You get Jon Hamm in a comedy, him acting like someone completely different than Don Drapper adds to the comedy, and "not Don Drapper" includes a lot of stuff, but you get him in something more serious you think about the gravitas he had in certain scenes and you want that for your serious film He really is a mad man
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Apr 29, 2021 16:32
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I love movie theaters. I'm lucky enough to live in NYC where we have tons of indie, arthouse, and repertory theaters and rarely if ever have to go to the big chains. It's a vastly different experience than sitting in my living room, even with a large 4K TV. Both of them can be great depending on your desired mood, atmosphere, and energy. That being said, I also support day-and-date releases so that audiences can choose the way they want to watch new movies—and if that means that big theater chains can't sustain themselves, so be it. Maybe this would result in more indies popping up in less urban markets, maybe it would mean that Netflix and Disney open up theaters, maybe it would mean that theaters would become a rarity outside of urban centers. I'm not saying these are necessarily desired outcomes, but digital distribution has changed things and the industry is going to evolve accordingly. Many people also liked malls. Many people also liked record stores. Many people also liked video rental shops. Those places also employed a lot of people. But when you say "What about the jobs??" for theaters, it doesn't feel materially different to me than Republican senators decrying the loss of coal jobs or whatnot.
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Apr 29, 2021 16:44
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Lurdiak posted:If you guys all like going to the movies that's ok, I was just hoping most people felt the way I did and we could move past the theater release system. Most people don’t and never will, hth
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Apr 29, 2021 16:48
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are movie theaters killing the planet the same way mcdonalds and coal refineries are, did i miss something or is this again down to people being upset about seeing spoilers online
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Apr 29, 2021 16:49
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I'm vaccinated and I have no plans to go back into theaters anytime soon The last films I saw in them were Endgame, John Wick 3, and Hobbes and Shaw and that's good enough for me lol
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Apr 29, 2021 16:50
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feedmyleg posted:Many people also liked malls. Many people also liked record stores. Many people also liked video rental shops. Those places also employed a lot of people. But when you say "What about the jobs??" for theaters, it doesn't feel materially different to me than Republican senators decrying the loss of coal jobs or whatnot. Things people enjoy and jobs going away are bad and you don't have to pretend to disagree because some Republicans think so too
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Apr 29, 2021 16:53
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Access to films is important, I'm not a huge fan of the theaters first, home release later model since not everyone can make it to the movies or even want to go. I think it's great that film catalogs are much more widely available to people thanks to streaming options (though let's nationalize that poo poo and roll all the catalogs into one giant service that's paid for via taxes!). Movies are made to be shown in theaters, and imo, presentation matters. I would prefer to see every movie I watch in a theater, that's why I spent a lot of money creating a similar experience for my home viewing. Most people watch a few films a year so a ticket to a theater for a night out is a much cheaper and convenient option than investing in a home theater. Not sure where I'm going or what I'm saying here, but I wanted to 
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Apr 29, 2021 16:55
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:are movie theaters killing the planet the same way mcdonalds and coal refineries are, did i miss something I didn't mean to compare movie theaters to the coal industry in terms of negative impact. I just mean that if a job doesn't serve a function anymore, it no longer has value. It's unfortunate that the burden of an industry collapsing disproportionately affects individual workers, but that's a social safety net issue and nothing specific to theaters. I'm fully vaccinated now and have no plans to return to theaters anytime soon. I have a strong desire to, but I feel like the word is still out on when it's actually socially responsible to return to theaters and not something that just boils down to "We've got to stimulate the economy and that involves a certain amount of acceptable loss!" If we ever reach herd immunity then I'd feel much more comfortable doing so, but I don't think we're responsible enough as a society to get there.
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Apr 29, 2021 16:59
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NieR Occomata posted:Yeah Ludiak is being a weird rear end in a top hat about one of the most enjoyable communal experiences in American history. It's especially stupid when you consider: He's not though? I dont blame anyone who prefers a home experience vs the theater one, and dislikes the standard model of theater first, home later. I agree with your post that we've reached a new point, in large part due to covid, where same day releases will be more common, but I also think studios will chase that BO dragon once things are "normal" again.
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Apr 29, 2021 17:01
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I mean, I work for a vaccination site and I can tell you that the CDC has already formally announced that fully-vaccinated people don't have to wear a mask in public under specific conditions. I dunno if we're out of the woods just yet, but having gone to a theater last Friday (I've been fully vaccinated for about three months now, due to aforementioned vaccination site job), the COVID regulations were actually fairly decent (people were heavily spaced out and told to wear masks during the show; dunno if they did or not, but, well) and I felt fairly safe. Or about as safe as I feel at my job, I suppose.
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Apr 29, 2021 17:05
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MacheteZombie posted:I agree with your post that we've reached a new point, in large part due to covid, where same day releases will be more common, but I also think studios will chase that BO dragon once things are "normal" again. They might, but it's also probably a hell of a lot easier to lie about success when results aren't public knowledge.
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Apr 29, 2021 17:08
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MacheteZombie posted:He's not though? I mean, this is the post I'm responding to: Lurdiak posted:I'm disappointed in everyone who apparently "missed" movie theaters and rushed out to buoy an industry that was on the verge of finally dying out as it deserved to. This is even more disappointing than when Trump got better from Covid. We were so close to a utopia where every movie just hits Netflix the minute it's done and there's no more Oscars. It's literally advocating for theaters to go away and calling it a "utopia". For someone who really enjoys going to a theater, that language and tone loving sucks. It's also, again, a dumb argument because it essentially boils down to taking things away from others that they like because you don't, on top of being a dumb argument because as I noted there's no reason that theaters can't still exist in a same-day streaming world. Like, you know, they do. Right now. Where like 70%+ of movies are same-day streaming releases, which will boost up to somewhere north of 95% in the next few years.
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Apr 29, 2021 17:10
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graventy posted:They might, but it's also probably a hell of a lot easier to lie about success when results aren't public knowledge. There should definitely be a congressional law that forces Netflix et all to release their ratings. I know for a fact some shows got canned that were so popular they were crashing the loving servers on launch day.
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Apr 29, 2021 17:11
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Lurdiak posted:There should definitely be a congressional law that forces Netflix et all to release their ratings. I know for a fact some shows got canned that were so popular they were crashing the loving servers on launch day. Why? Number of views has no direct correlation to profitability for someone like Netflix. Netflix would probably prefer if their releases had no views just as long as the idea of that program was enough to keep people subscribed, or to draw in a handful of new subscribers.
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Apr 29, 2021 17:24
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Baron von Eevl posted:Why? Number of views has no direct correlation to profitability for someone like Netflix. Netflix would probably prefer if their releases had no views just as long as the idea of that program was enough to keep people subscribed, or to draw in a handful of new subscribers. So we can yell at them.
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Apr 29, 2021 17:58
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If everything moved to streaming you'd either have to subscribe to $40-50 of streaming or just be like "welp Amazon picked up the new Refn film I guess I won't ever see it. I sure hope Hulu picks up the new Herzog doc."
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Apr 29, 2021 18:02
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Skwirl posted:If everything moved to streaming you'd either have to subscribe to $40-50 of streaming or just be like "welp Amazon picked up the new Refn film I guess I won't ever see it. I sure hope Hulu picks up the new Herzog doc." I still haven't seen Da 5 Bloods because it became clear years ago that it wasn't worth paying $13 a month for Netflix when they have like one thing worth watching every six months. And I can't get it at the library because since it's a Netflix production that's not Roma or The Irishman, it'll just never hit dvd. gently caress Netflix and really gently caress all other streaming services (except Shudder, Shudder is cool)
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Apr 29, 2021 18:06
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I know we're all thinking this, so I'm just gonna say it: Shut down Onlyfans, bring back the peep shows. Burn pornhub to the ground and erect a vast pornoplex atop its ashes like a megachurch for perverts. Let's Make Times Square Great Again!
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Apr 29, 2021 18:19
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Pornhub is walking dead anyway, we don't need to burn it.
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Apr 29, 2021 18:43
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Lurdiak posted:Pornhub is walking dead anyway, we don't need to burn it. Since when are you not supposed to burn the walking dead?
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Apr 29, 2021 18:48
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Lurdiak posted:Pornhub is walking dead anyway, we don't need to burn it. like 80-90% or more of their content was people uploading pirated content (including the movie "The Big Sick" being in their interracial porn section for awhile), but I do feel bad for the sex workers who were actually making money off it legitimately.
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Apr 29, 2021 18:51
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Skwirl posted:like 80-90% or more of their content was people uploading pirated content (including the movie "The Big Sick" being in their interracial porn section for awhile), but I do feel bad for the sex workers who were actually making money off it legitimately. Same. I know the official reason they got got is because their lax moderation let some truly disgusting content through, but I feel them being a huge source of income for sex workers had a lot to do with how willing capital was to turn on them. Well, that and the copyright infringement. Youtube had horrible poo poo for years before they upped their bot game (and they still let nazis preach on there) but no one ever pulled the plug this hard on them.
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Apr 29, 2021 18:57
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Lurdiak posted:Same. I know the official reason they got got is because their lax moderation let some truly disgusting content through, but I feel them being a huge source of income for sex workers had a lot to do with how willing capital was to turn on them. Well, that and the copyright infringement. Youtube had horrible poo poo for years before they upped their bot game (and they still let nazis preach on there) but no one ever pulled the plug this hard on them. The official reason was child porn, but there's like several orders of magnitude more child porn, and it's probably easier to find if you're looking for it available on Facebook, and there's no way Visa or Mastercard are gonna stop processing their credit card payments. It only came about because a sustained campaign by anti-sex worker groups that concentrated solely on the child porn aspect, but really they want to eliminate all porn and criminalize all forms of sex work.
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Apr 29, 2021 19:04
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Pirate Jet posted:But it’s not the case for the majority of the US. Most of us don’t have even have an Alamo Drafthouse nearby, let alone another company that goes above the baseline for acceptable A/V quality. (And whose top brass isn’t chock full ‘o creeps.) The majority of the US lives in the 100 biggest cities or the counties they’re in actually. Sorry if you live in Wyoming or whatever, go look at a tree
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Apr 29, 2021 19:13
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As someone who lives in an area (pretty sizable midwest college town) where basically the only theaters are multiplexes that don't show much outside of the big studio wide releases, I'm conflicted, because on the one hand most of what they showed was blockbuster stuff I wasn't really interested in but on the other hand, some of the best movie watching experiences of my life have been in theaters, and the prospect of those experiences being a thing of the past outside of places where arthouse theaters are fiscally sustainable isn't one I like. Without theaters and with video rental places quickly going out of business, the only options for watching a movie on a whim around here would be Redbox and streaming, and for people with lovely connections, Redbox becomes the monopoly option. Not much of a utopia imo.
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Apr 29, 2021 19:15
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It's getting into total speculative territory, but if theaters do collapse and there is still a sizable enough market of people who are willing to pay a premium to go watch a movie as a social event, I wonder if repertory theaters and second-run theaters could make a significant comeback. Instead of being the territory of current-day blockbusters, studios might drop licensing costs for back catalogue titles so folks can go get a bucket of popcorn and catch Jurassic Park with their pals.
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Apr 29, 2021 19:20
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feedmyleg posted:It's getting into total speculative territory, but if theaters do collapse and there is still a sizable enough market of people who are willing to pay a premium to go watch a movie as a social event, I wonder if repertory theaters and second-run theaters could make a significant comeback. Instead of being the territory of current-day blockbusters, studios might drop licensing costs for back catalogue titles so folks can go get a bucket of popcorn and catch Jurassic Park with their pals. That would entirely depend on studios being willing to license the poo poo out.
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Apr 29, 2021 19:26
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feedmyleg posted:It's getting into total speculative territory, but if theaters do collapse and there is still a sizable enough market of people who are willing to pay a premium to go watch a movie as a social event, I wonder if repertory theaters and second-run theaters could make a significant comeback. Instead of being the territory of current-day blockbusters, studios might drop licensing costs for back catalogue titles so folks can go get a bucket of popcorn and catch Jurassic Park with their pals. Take a gander at what Disney did with the Fox catalogue and reperatory screenings: the answer is no Markets do not actually give people what they want, they convince people to want what they get
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Apr 29, 2021 19:41
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The thing I see the most of about why people don't go to movies is the cost but the price of going to a movie and buying snacks or whatever is pretty much what it's going to cost you to do anything else. Like if you go to a restaurant or a bar or any other sort of entertainment venue. It's not just movie theaters, it's expensive to do anything.
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Apr 29, 2021 21:21
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:I was recently thinking back to one of my earliest movie theater memories. It was at the tiny second-run theater that really made me fall in love with the theater experience - the floors were sticky, the prints were damaged from their trip from the first run theater, and the projector would break down with some frequency. The popcorn was loving great, though. My parents inexplicably took me to see Braveheart - I was 7 at the time, I think they just couldn't get a babysitter. My mom covered my eyes through a good 70% of the movie and as if the movie itself wasn't violent enough, a fistfight broke out in the theater halfway through and everybody had to go outside and wait around on the sidewalk for like half an hour while it got broken up. A couple years ago I went to a midnight screening of Streets of Fire at the Somerville Theater (greater Boston area). There was a really loud drunk dude who was very, very excited for the movie and as we were still settling down and getting seats he would do this high pitched scream: "STREETS OF FIIIIRRREEEE!!!" He kept doing this and even when the manager came out to introduce the film and promote the rest of the midnight series he kept interrupting, especially whenever the film's name was said. So the lights go down and the Universal logo pops up and he yells "UNIVERSAAALLL!!" and it's like, oh no, he's not going to shut up. Through the first five minutes or so of the film he keeps yelling and it's getting to the point where I can hear his friends trying to tell him to shut up. I distinctly remember him yelling back at them "I'm just having an emotional reaction to the movie, man! Would you tell me not to cry at Titanic!?" So in short he doesn't stop. No more than 10 minutes into the movie I notice flashlights behind me (I'm in the front row, he's a few rows back on the aisle) and the cops are here. They tell him he needs to leave and like the genius he is he starts arguing with the cop. And then it happened. "AM I BEING DETAINED!? AM I UNDER ARREST!? AM I UNDER ARREST AM I BEING DETAINED!?" The cops dragged him out and he got banned from the theater and oh my god did it make the loving night. I mean, gently caress cops and all but holy poo poo it was astounding to witness that. The movie rules and some drunk rear end in a top hat was annoying for a bit but I treasure that loving memory. Like you said, you can't get that at home.
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Apr 29, 2021 21:30
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TrixRabbi posted:A couple years ago I went to a midnight screening of Streets of Fire at the Somerville Theater (greater Boston area). There was a really loud drunk dude who was very, very excited for the movie and as we were still settling down and getting seats he would do this high pitched scream: "STREETS OF FIIIIRRREEEE!!!" He kept doing this and even when the manager came out to introduce the film and promote the rest of the midnight series he kept interrupting, especially whenever the film's name was said. I'd be happy to re-enact that at your house as long as instead of the cops coming it's strippers dressed as cops.
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Apr 29, 2021 21:40
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Im a home release abolitionist, you should only be able to see movies in the theater.
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Apr 29, 2021 21:41
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It's weird how we're talking about movies as an upper class thing when historically it's been a low and middle class form of entertainment because it's at an acceptable price point for the average person. Yes, ticket and concession prices have shot up over the years but it's still a far cry cheaper than live theater or other forms of outside-the-home entertainment. Fact is, the majority of people only see 1-2 movies in a theater a year, if that but it's still among the most accessible forms of communal entertainment. If you don't like the experience and prefer to just watch stuff at home, I mean that's fine you don't have to go to the theater. But wishing this industry that so many people love would die so you can see a few big release movies sooner rather than later is absurd. I could talk about so many other great theater experiences I've had from total dump theaters with bargain nights to arthouses to megaplexes. Movie theaters are the best.
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Apr 29, 2021 21:45
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KC's in a weird position, when the Drafthouse closed (for many understandable reasons) apparently it left us without any first run theaters in the metropolitan area (I don't know when the Cinemark on the Plaza closed but apparently that's gone too). There's a lot of suburban sprawl mind you but for those of us without a car that sucks. I get my second dose in a couple weeks and I'll have nowhere to go. Last I checked the story was that B&B were hoping to buy the space the Drafthouse was in but even if that goes through it'll be a while since they'd want to renovate to put in fancy reclining seats.
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Apr 29, 2021 21:46
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Feel like the issue we're addressing is less about a class element of theaters being a premium experience and more that the industry is in distress and there should be more movie theaters.
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Apr 29, 2021 21:47
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TrixRabbi posted:Feel like the issue we're addressing is less about a class element of theaters being a premium experience and more that the industry is in distress and there should be more movie theaters. Yeah, it should be like libraries. Government subsidized theaters in scarce areas.
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Apr 29, 2021 21:52
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