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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:He would demand a moustache be digitally added to Gollum. That sounds like a positive imo
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# ? Apr 30, 2021 16:16 |
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# ? Mar 30, 2024 00:39 |
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Out dated now, but comic book film researcher BoobMarley settled this debate years ago
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# ? Apr 30, 2021 16:16 |
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I'm glad someone saved that.
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# ? Apr 30, 2021 16:16 |
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Man, remember Kick-rear end?
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# ? Apr 30, 2021 16:22 |
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AccountSupervisor posted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vudnMLzZjTg
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# ? Apr 30, 2021 16:25 |
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josh04 posted:Man, remember Kick-rear end? I 'member
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# ? Apr 30, 2021 16:25 |
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AccountSupervisor posted:(Once again the first 4 DCEU movies were more profitable than the first 4 MCU movies) Even if you want to push back on this for being reductive: the "phase 1" of MCU up through the original Avengers versus the same phase for the DCEU through JL2017 looks like this: MCU 6 movies $1 billion dollar budget total $1,747,317,409 domestic box office $3,813,212,481 worldwide box office DCEU 5 movies $1.099 billion dollar budget total $1,588,093,469 domestic box office $3,768,298,638 worldwide box office Like, the MCU spent a little less to make a little more but this wasn't the crushing, sweeping defeat that became the meme. And of course you can point to the MCU's wild success after Phase 1 but then for the DCUE it's very next film after the disappointment of Josstice League was Aquaman, their first billion dollar breaker and their most successful movie to date. From there they only had two movies pre-COVID, and those were not hyper successful but they also had incredibly modest budgets compared to movies from either studio (I think BoP is literally the only one made for less than 100 mil) WB's biggest problem with the DCEU was not getting out of their own loving way and just making movies. Literally the biggest strength of the MCU was whenever they had a stumble, like with The Incredible Hulk being a weak performer or First Avenger not doing great internationally, they didn't loving immediately panic and they kept trucking forward until they built a brand on sheer momentum. They recast Bruce Banner and retconned a bunch of poo poo from those early movie but basically nobody cares because it's silly to look back on the early days and go "well they didn't make all that much money" since what they did do was have their loving eye on the prize and move steadily forward like a loving bulldozer. The idea that WB should constantly listen to the internet and second guess themselves is the exact loving opposite lesson they should've learned.
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# ? Apr 30, 2021 16:31 |
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Remember when WB was trying to distinguish themselves with "we let our artists make *their* movie, we dont restrict them like Marvel" type rhetoric? Its pretty funny in hindsight, with the Justice League rolling SNAFU, butchering Suicide Squad, saturating Aquaman, canceling New Gods (either because they stole the script, or because it would remind people of SCJL's existence too much), and whatever's going on with Flash. As restrictive as Marvel can be, AFAIK they haven't thrown someones movie to a team of trailer editors (or worse, Joss Whedon) to chop up after it's finished. Most directors seem to understand going in that they wont be directing the action scenes, and the color grading will be bad.
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# ? Apr 30, 2021 16:49 |
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Neurolimal posted:Remember when WB was trying to distinguish themselves with "we let our artists make *their* movie, we dont restrict them like Marvel" type rhetoric? Its pretty funny in hindsight, with the Justice League rolling SNAFU, butchering Suicide Squad, saturating Aquaman, canceling New Gods (either because they stole the script, or because it would remind people of SCJL's existence too much), and whatever's going on with Flash. The biggest difference seems to be that Marvel will let you know who's in charge super early into production, which is how you get Edgar Wright leaving Ant-Man well before it derailed things or Lurecia Martel just turning down Black Widow outright. WB presumably starts with a hands off approach, bragging about how independent it's letting its directors be, then has a loving panic attack at the 11th hour and does the equivalent of pulling an all-nighter redoing their kid's science project while weeping on the kitchen floor
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# ? Apr 30, 2021 16:54 |
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Guy A. Person posted:WB's biggest problem with the DCEU was not getting out of their own loving way and just making movies. Literally the biggest strength of the MCU was whenever they had a stumble, like with The Incredible Hulk being a weak performer or First Avenger not doing great internationally, they didn't loving immediately panic and they kept trucking forward until they built a brand on sheer momentum. They recast Bruce Banner and retconned a bunch of poo poo from those early movie but basically nobody cares because it's silly to look back on the early days and go "well they didn't make all that much money" since what they did do was have their loving eye on the prize and move steadily forward like a loving bulldozer.
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# ? Apr 30, 2021 17:02 |
Y'all can talk about Pink Raytheon or Fountainhead Iron Man, but Black Panther has the worst politics in all of modern film-making because it literally enshrines a modern white supremacist revision of a Puritan American founding myth as a central pillar of the movie.
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# ? Apr 30, 2021 17:34 |
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And what is that?
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# ? Apr 30, 2021 17:42 |
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Even when I try to put myself in the shoes of an exec and not a fan, I totally get WB getting worried by a 69% BO drop for the 2nd weekend of BvS, that's a huge percentage and its something to definitely be weary of. The problem is that they were already shooting JL, the money was spent, the budget was locked and they had already started down this path of the Snyderverse and if they wanted to pivot after Justice League, had it been received with as much critical scorn as BvS, I wouldnt have faulted them. It just makes absolutely no sense they thought doing what they did with JL was the right move. They had no idea what they were doing with their filmmakers, threw a ton of money at these movies assuming the IPs alone would deliver them immediate billions and were shocked when a very challenging take on the DC mythos(that they reportedly loved themselves) wasnt a mainstream smash in the same sense The Avengers was. Theres a myriad of time and place factors that also have to be accounted for when looking at the two approaches. I dont know how you can argue this when we are in 2021 having debates that by all means should have been happening 4 years ago. Thats nobodies fault but WB. It legitimately feels like a cultural conversation was transplanted from 2017 to 2021 and AccountSupervisor fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Apr 30, 2021 |
# ? Apr 30, 2021 17:47 |
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The thing that wilds me out was the new information from Terrio that the OG BvS script they gave him was even darker and more vicious. That was not something we knew before about a month ago and it's one of those "everything you thought you knew about the situation was wrong" moments for me. Like most people I had assumed that it was Snyder and Terrio who went for more grit in the script; the fact is that they were the ones softening up the movie!
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# ? Apr 30, 2021 17:52 |
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Guy A. Person posted:The biggest difference seems to be that Marvel will let you know who's in charge super early into production, which is how you get Edgar Wright leaving Ant-Man well before it derailed things or Lurecia Martel just turning down Black Widow outright. WB presumably starts with a hands off approach, bragging about how independent it's letting its directors be, then has a loving panic attack at the 11th hour and does the equivalent of pulling an all-nighter redoing their kid's science project while weeping on the kitchen floor It's hilarious that WB had a thing going where they were the Director's StudioTM and, through Justice League, managed to isolate 3 of their bigger directors in Christopher Nolan, Zack Snyder and Ben Affleck.
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# ? Apr 30, 2021 18:02 |
Halloween Jack posted:And what is that? Even aside from the Cosby-ish respectability politics and whatever else. Puritans launched their colonization effort of America citing a Christian sermon with the phrase "city upon a hill". They used it to refer to their religious piety, but it's since been repurposed as a rallying call for all sorts of colonialism and in the modern era as a justification for white supremacy--that white people, white civilization, in general are the shining pinnacle. Black Panther eagerly accepts this framing and says that a bunch of brutal isolationist monarchists are the ones who can follow in the white people's footprints in delivering colonialism to an Africa depicted as tribal hunter-gatherers. It is loving gross. VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Apr 30, 2021 |
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# ? Apr 30, 2021 18:03 |
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I'd like to retract my previous post on this topic and instead put forward a plea that Wakanda furnish the LAPD with vibranium weaponry.
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# ? Apr 30, 2021 18:08 |
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:Y'all can talk about Pink Raytheon or Fountainhead Iron Man, but Black Panther has the worst politics in all of modern film-making because it literally enshrines a modern white supremacist revision of a Puritan American founding myth as a central pillar of the movie. The new Captain Falcon show is even worse in this regard, insanely dire politics to the point where you really wish they wouldn't have bothered.
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# ? Apr 30, 2021 18:15 |
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:The new Captain Falcon show If only
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# ? Apr 30, 2021 18:18 |
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josh04 posted:Man, remember Kick-rear end? Kick-rear end is one of my favorites so yes
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# ? Apr 30, 2021 18:19 |
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I get that a lot black nerds are just happy to see an mostly-black superhero cast touting afrofuturistic designs in an african setting, but I definitely wish it hadn't come in the form of a movie where a CIA asset quells a revolution while preaching pragmatism. I would have been interested in a Netflix or Fox adaptation of The Crew getting those warm regards, personally.
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# ? Apr 30, 2021 18:26 |
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:Even aside from the Cosby-ish respectability politics and whatever else. But yeah, the movie is all about how great "progressive" imperialism is, and how any challenge to the American empire is villainous. Which isn't exactly an unusual combo, trying to associate their mass murderers and other ghouls with progressiveness is like the rule for the liberal side of American politics.
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# ? Apr 30, 2021 18:36 |
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Killmonger is almost literally just an ugly caricature / smear job of Kwame Ture lol Black Panther sucks so goddamn bad
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# ? Apr 30, 2021 18:37 |
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Neurolimal posted:I get that a lot black nerds are just happy to see an mostly-black superhero cast touting afrofuturistic designs in an african setting, but I definitely wish it hadn't come in the form of a movie where a CIA asset quells a revolution while preaching pragmatism. A lot of black nerds are happy about Kamala Harris. Doesn't mean much.
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# ? Apr 30, 2021 18:40 |
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A Buttery Pastry posted:But yeah, the movie is all about how great "progressive" imperialism is, and how any challenge to the American empire is villainous. is there a Marvel movei that's not about this
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# ? Apr 30, 2021 18:42 |
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Its Chocolate posted:is there a Marvel movei that's not about this Dr. Strange is about how Gnosticism is just a con job by Cthulhu and if you really know what's good for you you'd listen to the Demiurge and never mind all the blatant signs that reality is a prison and they're your jailer which is... still basically the same schema as liberal imperialism, just applied to religious mysticism
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# ? Apr 30, 2021 18:43 |
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Dr. Strange is about how Gnosticism is just a con job by Cthulhu and if you really know what's good for you you'd listen to the Demiurge and never mind all the blatant signs that reality is a prison and they're your jailer you have no idea how angry this makes me
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# ? Apr 30, 2021 18:46 |
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Its Chocolate posted:you have no idea how angry this makes me oh no i'm right there with you, Dr. Strange is the movie that convinced me to stop even watching MCU movies. even doing adversarial readings or ideological criticism isn't interesting when it's the exact same message every time
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# ? Apr 30, 2021 18:49 |
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:doing adversarial readings or ideological criticism isn't interesting
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# ? Apr 30, 2021 18:51 |
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Its Chocolate posted:is there a Marvel movei that's not about this Thor 3, I guess. Oh never mind, here comes Thanos.
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# ? Apr 30, 2021 18:52 |
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Its Chocolate posted:is there a Marvel movei that's not about this I mean, it's the same ideological construct they're all portraying, but they do point the camera at different bits.
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# ? Apr 30, 2021 19:17 |
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It’s honestly really fuckin’ wild that Marvelverse began with a Batman parody. It’s like if we had 25 increasingly-serious Airplane! sequels, including a full supernatural relationship drama miniseries based on the “Otto the Inflatable Autopilot” blow-job joke.
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# ? Apr 30, 2021 19:25 |
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A Buttery Pastry posted:I was gonna say that Wakanda is somewhere between America and "Modern progressive Saudi Arabia under MBS", but then I realized the latter is literally casting itself as a mini-America to sell itself to the imperial core, so it's almost a distinction without a difference. It also presents a comforting liberal vision of racial injustice - yes, dear viewer, it's all very unfortunate and you're a good person for feeling bad about it, but never fear, nothing actually needs to be changed to do anything about it. The movie presents racial injustice as something with no tangible effects, that isn't perpetrated by anybody. In the world according to Black Panther there is no wrongdoing to be stopped, no malefactors to be brought to justice, no institutions that need to be reformed or abolished - just a vague and nonspecific sense of unfairness that we wish wasn't there. The most immediate example of racial inequity that the movie cares to demonstrate is some cultural artifacts being on display in the British Museum, and by the end of that scene it's revealed that Killmonger doesn't actually care about anything that he said and was just appropriating the language of justice to get what he wanted Then the movie's uplifting finale has T'challa solving racism by opening what amounts to a coding bootcamp in Oakland. Yes, we're very sorry about the inconvenience - due to an unfortunate oversight, a little oopsie-doodle in the otherwise-perfect system, the prosperity wasn't being distributed as optimally as it could be, but now at long last there's a black billionaire among those at the top and at long last prosperity can come trickling down to poor black kids the same way it does so successfully to everyone else. And just think! By paying to see this movie, you - yes, you, dear viewer - could be helping to create a black billionaire, which means you helped solve racism by coming to the theater today!
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# ? Apr 30, 2021 19:38 |
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Also, much ado was made about the movie taking place in Africa, but Wakanda may as well be another planet like Asgard and the movie's only actual use for Africa beyond aesthetics is as a source of generic bad guys for T'challa to kill in an early scene.
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# ? Apr 30, 2021 19:41 |
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:Puritans launched their colonization effort of America citing a Christian sermon with the phrase "city upon a hill". They used it to refer to their religious piety, but it's since been repurposed as a rallying call for all sorts of colonialism and in the modern era as a justification for white supremacy--that white people, white civilization, in general are the shining pinnacle. Black Panther eagerly accepts this framing and says that a bunch of brutal isolationist monarchists are the ones who can follow in the white people's footprints in delivering colonialism to an Africa depicted as tribal hunter-gatherers. The other main sticking point for me is that it's a fantasy of empowered Africans that is, well, pure fantasy. Wakanda doesn't show any traces of any actual African liberation movement I've ever heard of. They say that colonialism happened and it was very bad, but they didn't draw on any anti-colonial movements or condemn any colonial projects that actually existed, because that would be too controversial for Marvel. Wakanda doesn't need Pan-Africanism because they have Hogwarts houses and magic metal. And like you said, Africa outside of Wakanda (i.e. real Africa) is depicted as a depleted wasteland whose people have no identity or agency. Seyser Koze posted:In the world according to Black Panther there is no wrongdoing to be stopped, no malefactors to be brought to justice, no institutions that need to be reformed or abolished - just a vague and nonspecific sense of unfairness that we wish wasn't there. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Apr 30, 2021 |
# ? Apr 30, 2021 20:14 |
Halloween Jack posted:I agree! But homologizing the Wakandans to white Puritan settlers feels unnecessary given that the movie is hosed up in even more obvious ways. Yeah I think the obvious ways are the more superficial ways, those are ways in which Black Panther is merely Just As Bad as the rest. It's not exactly homologizing, I think. The idea of the city upon a hill has certainly evolved in 400 years, and it is the modern white supremacist conception of the phrase that Black Panther ultimately adopts for Wakanda. That makes it worse than every other right wing leaning MCU slobjob, on what is a fundamental level. VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Apr 30, 2021 |
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# ? Apr 30, 2021 20:17 |
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A Buttery Pastry posted:I was gonna say that Wakanda is somewhere between America and "Modern progressive Saudi Arabia under MBS", but then I realized the latter is literally casting itself as a mini-America to sell itself to the imperial core, so it's almost a distinction without a difference. Julius Nyerere posted:Yes, we have one party here. The United States is also a one-party state. But with typical American extravagance, they have two of them!
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# ? Apr 30, 2021 20:24 |
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Halloween Jack posted:I agree! But homologizing the Wakandans to white Puritan settlers feels unnecessary given that the movie is hosed up in even more obvious ways. Like, the literal plot is that a black revolutionary wins control of Wakanda fair and square, and the "hero" overthrows him in a CIA-backed coup. Seyser Koze posted:The most immediate example of racial inequity that the movie cares to demonstrate is some cultural artifacts being on display in the British Museum, and by the end of that scene it's revealed that Killmonger doesn't actually care about anything that he said and was just appropriating the language of justice to get what he wanted Seyser Koze posted:Also, much ado was made about the movie taking place in Africa, but Wakanda may as well be another planet like Asgard and the movie's only actual use for Africa beyond aesthetics is as a source of generic bad guys for T'challa to kill in an early scene.
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# ? Apr 30, 2021 20:29 |
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:The thing that wilds me out was the new information from Terrio that the OG BvS script they gave him was even darker and more vicious. That was not something we knew before about a month ago and it's one of those "everything you thought you knew about the situation was wrong" moments for me. Like most people I had assumed that it was Snyder and Terrio who went for more grit in the script; the fact is that they were the ones softening up the movie! That was huge news to me as well. I'd be interested to know how on board Snyder was with the original grimdark version; Terrio gave the impression that basically everything he contributed Snyder was enthusiastic about. I don't know anything about the industry, but if you're a director and your lead actor has problems with the script, you could presumably just say "no, the script is fine" and not bring on another writer unless you actually agreed
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# ? Apr 30, 2021 20:43 |
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# ? Mar 30, 2024 00:39 |
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Wasnt the darker script stuff like a quip about Superman killing african warlords? Even if you want a dark and serious story, I can understand removing trash like that.
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# ? Apr 30, 2021 20:52 |