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Neurolimal posted:Remember when WB was trying to distinguish themselves with "we let our artists make *their* movie, we dont restrict them like Marvel" type rhetoric? Its pretty funny in hindsight, with the Justice League rolling SNAFU, butchering Suicide Squad, saturating Aquaman, canceling New Gods (either because they stole the script, or because it would remind people of SCJL's existence too much), and whatever's going on with Flash. Ant-man and edgar wright would disagree. Edit : gently caress trying to edit a line on the phone,i was trying bold the AFAIK bit. Brazilianpeanutwar fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Apr 30, 2021 |
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Apr 30, 2021 20:59
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Neurolimal posted:Wasnt the darker script stuff like a quip about Superman killing african warlords? Even if you want a dark and serious story, I can understand removing trash like that. quote:[the original script made] a joke out of Superman raining hell upon Black African Muslim characters in the desert, as Lois promises that Superman is not going to go easy on them because they punched her
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Apr 30, 2021 21:06
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Neurolimal posted:Wasnt the darker script stuff like a quip about Superman killing african warlords? Even if you want a dark and serious story, I can understand removing trash like that. Yeah this is the thing: it was "darker" but only in the sense that it was more flippant about the subject matter it was dealing with (and therefor more cynical but with a more relaxed tone). The issue is some people would look at the jokey mocking tone and be like "ah they are just having fun out there". Taking serious situations seriously often gets mistaken for being "grimdark" in these discussions unfortunately.
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Apr 30, 2021 21:10
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A Buttery Pastry posted:They cover a wide range of topics, from the importance of standing up to government to protect private property, the virtue of putting your faith in great men, and a general end of history mindset. 1. We have no idea what SHIELD really is, and neither do the filmmakers. Same deal with the "World Security Council" and everything connected to SHIELD. Like, the Department of Defense didn't give the first Avengers the raft of free stuff that these movies usually get, because they're very protective of their image and they couldn't work out what SHIELD is even supposed to be. Is it part of the DoD, or the DHS, or its own federal law enforcement agency, or some kind of intergovernmental organization like NATO? And this is important, because the MCU constantly tried to play with these big-picture themes of power, and security vs. freedom and so on, and it's always extremely muddled because we don't know on what authority SHIELD and the Avengers do what they do. By the time of Age of Ultron, it appears that the Avengers are a mercenary company sponsored by Stark Industries. 2. In all of these movies, anyone who could be said to represent "the people" is some combination of stupid, selfish, and/or evil. The journalist who has a one-night stand with Tony Stark, the US Senator who's secretly a member of Hydra, the United Nations. If you have a problem with the heroes going wherever they want and blowing up buildings, you're a bad guy.
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Apr 30, 2021 21:11
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2house2fly posted:I can sort of imagine a similar scene in an Avengers film, where Pepper Potts would be kidnapped by terrorists and they punch her and instead of cowering as they expect she goes "ooooh big mistake" and then Iron Man comes along and blows them all up badassly Interestingly enough, this is how the CW show Lois and Superman handles a situation. Lois is getting attacked by a big goon and presses her ultrasonic "Superman Summoning Pager", makes a quip, and then Superman just crashes through the wall and smashes the dude, no questions asked.
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Apr 30, 2021 21:13
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Interestingly enough, this is how the CW show Lois and Superman handles a situation. Lois is getting attacked by a big goon and presses her ultrasonic "Superman Summoning Pager", makes a quip, and then Superman just crashes through the wall and smashes the dude, no questions asked. And that goon? Zack Snyder
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Apr 30, 2021 21:14
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Halloween Jack posted:
Not just that, even just paying lipservice to the idea of accountability makes you the bad guy, see Civil War (or better yet, don't.  )
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Apr 30, 2021 21:16
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Civil War was pretty good I got a lol out of Black Panther ending the movie like "wow everything that just happened was real dumb, I'm leaving"
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Apr 30, 2021 21:32
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:The new Captain Falcon show is even worse in this regard, insanely dire politics to the point where you really wish they wouldn't have bothered. What's the deal with it? I saw part of one episode and it was pretty dire, embarrassing dialogue and it appeared that they were pursuing the bader-meinhoff group for distributing medicine to refugees or something?
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Apr 30, 2021 21:39
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RBA Starblade posted:Civil War was pretty good Black Panther was easily the best part, and it was pretty stylish at parts. Some of the action scenes were sloppily edited, and while the airport fight had some fun ideas and good character interaction it also had the most reshot inserts (you could easily tell when they just smash cut close up on a character's face while they made a quip) and the whole thing felt kind of perfunctory instead of having high stakes (and my god the action jogging was embarassing). I feel like they could've/should've cut at least one storyline to let it breath a little bit as well.
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Apr 30, 2021 21:39
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It's really funny how many people complain there wasn't movies for Flash, Cyborg, and Aquaman before Justice League that didn't say anything about how fast Spider-Man was just dumped into the MCU.
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Apr 30, 2021 21:55
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The end of Civil War was v satisfying because it had an end fight where Iron Man was unambiguously the bad guy, and because Black Panther decided to not get involved and just arrest the dude
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Apr 30, 2021 22:26
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Roth posted:It's really funny how many people complain there wasn't movies for Flash, Cyborg, and Aquaman before Justice League that didn't say anything about how fast Spider-Man was just dumped into the MCU. Spider-Man's kind of a unique case, since there had already been 2 other actors playing the character within the past decade, so he's more like James Bond in that way and the audience already knows what to expect. Nobody really cared if Peter Parker was going to show up - they just wanted to see a CGI red and blue suit on the screen at the same time as the other Avengers, and there's no way they would have marketed the movie with Tom Holland appearing as the new character Night Monkey. Black Panther's another example of the same thing, but Marvel had things figured out by Civil War. The entire draw of the MCU is a cycle of seeing characters from different movies interact, and then introducing more characters for the next crossover. The first Avengers movie made a billion dollars through novelty alone, and when Age of Ultron did the exact same things but without the novelty, it fell flat. Instead, they turned their new characters into extended versions of post-credits cameos. Black Panther's appearance in Civil War was announced minutes after the reveal of his solo movie, turning it into a "sneak peek" of a new character. Since Justice League didn't have the built-in novelty of standalone characters crossing over for the first time, and because BvS didn't spend any time on Wonder Woman's backstory (despite it being functionally identical to the "sneak peek" Black Panther thing) the assumption was that Justice League wouldn't do it either. It was impossible to conceive that a superhero movie would spend any time developing characters or creating an engaging story that didn't rely on novelty.
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Apr 30, 2021 23:01
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Neurolimal posted:Wasnt the darker script stuff like a quip about Superman killing african warlords? Even if you want a dark and serious story, I can understand removing trash like that. They were also going to end the movie with Batman branding Lex.
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May 1, 2021 01:10
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2house2fly posted:To Thor, the oppressed uighurs in xinjiang are space aliens! Then you are truly lost!
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May 1, 2021 01:48
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Jimbot posted:I highly recommend going back and watching the previous two film and see if your opinion changes. Some people came out of those films liking them a whole lot more after Justice League. Sometimes it helps knowing the destination to make the journey better. The Ultimate Cut of BvS is the way to go, though. It was what was originally going to be released until at the 11th hour WB pulled a WB and Snyder was forced to strip 30 minutes from it. I might go back and do this with Man of Steel. I remember during release it was constantly getting compared to the first Avengers, and the critic/cultural consensus sort of soured my opinion on it during that time. Maybe now that we're outside of that MCU bubble I'll get more out of it on second viewing, it's been a really long time since I saw it last. BvS might be a bit of a tough sell, that's got to be one drat good cut for me to sit through that again. Snyder seems to be real hit-or-miss when it comes to his catalogue, but this Justice League revision has really made me consider that it may be more the fault of the studio interfering with his work rather than the man's directoral eye, cause when he hits they're full-on out of the park Grand Slams.
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May 1, 2021 07:15
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My issue with BvS is that the paranoid political conspiracy stuff has an extremely different feel now from 2016. Personally I think that speaks to it being ahead of its time and Snyder actually being a person who's aware of the political climate of the USA, but the basic imagery of a politically convenient "attack the Capitol" event for instance hits in a very different way now imo. I still love the movie but when I last watched it with a friend a month ago I found the paranoid fever-dream vibe a bit more... normal than it should be. Also the scene where you have BS media commenting on Superman features both Charlie Rose and Neil DeGrasse Tyson and it's like..... drat.
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May 1, 2021 07:38
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Batman being a right winger racist rules It makes sense.
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May 1, 2021 07:46
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Martman posted:My issue with BvS is that the paranoid political conspiracy stuff has an extremely different feel now from 2016. Personally I think that speaks to it being ahead of its time and Snyder actually being a person who's aware of the political climate of the USA, but the basic imagery of a politically convenient "attack the Capitol" event for instance hits in a very different way now imo. I still love the movie but when I last watched it with a friend a month ago I found the paranoid fever-dream vibe a bit more... normal than it should be. Zack Snyder got Neil DeGrasse Tyson in his movie to debate "The Superman Question"
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May 1, 2021 08:05
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Parrotine posted:BvS might be a bit of a tough sell, that's got to be one drat good cut for me to sit through that again. Snyder seems to be real hit-or-miss when it comes to his catalogue, but this Justice League revision has really made me consider that it may be more the fault of the studio interfering with his work rather than the man's directoral eye, cause when he hits they're full-on out of the park Grand Slams. I loving hated the theatrical BvS and had to be dragged kicking and screaming to the Ultimate Ed, but it completely turned me around on it. Turns out knowing why characters are doing stuff makes films better.
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May 1, 2021 09:08
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Necrothatcher posted:I don't think it's that ridiculous. The worst Marvel movies are just bland and boring rather than outright bad. This is true of the best ones too, though. This is the issue. They're all fine. There's not a bad one, and there's not a truly great one. Necrothatcher posted:I loving hated the theatrical BvS and had to be dragged kicking and screaming to the Ultimate Ed, but it completely turned me around on it. I liked that it placed the viewer so squarely in batman's shoes, that it made Superman opaque and thus terrifying to him, but I also get why only the ultimate edition works for others.
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May 1, 2021 10:03
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Martman posted:My issue with BvS is that the paranoid political conspiracy stuff has an extremely different feel now from 2016. Personally I think that speaks to it being ahead of its time and Snyder actually being a person who's aware of the political climate of the USA, but the basic imagery of a politically convenient "attack the Capitol" event for instance hits in a very different way now imo. I still love the movie but when I last watched it with a friend a month ago I found the paranoid fever-dream vibe a bit more... normal than it should be. 
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May 1, 2021 10:13
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Necrothatcher posted:I loving hated the theatrical BvS and had to be dragged kicking and screaming to the Ultimate Ed, but it completely turned me around on it. One example that stood out to me was, in the theatrical cut Superman gets up in Batman's face and threatens him for kind of no reason. In the ultimate cut there's a whole subplot of Clark investigating this vigilante in Gotham who's brutalising people, culminating in (spoilers for possible new viewers) him asking the wife of a dead branded inmate to help him put a stop to it with journalism, and her saying it would be pointless because the only thing someone like Batman understands is violence. That context makes the "consider this mercy" scene hit differently
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May 1, 2021 11:22
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2house2fly posted:One example that stood out to me was, in the theatrical cut Superman gets up in Batman's face and threatens him for kind of no reason. In the ultimate cut there's a whole subplot of Clark investigating this vigilante in Gotham who's brutalising people, culminating in (spoilers for possible new viewers) him asking the wife of a dead branded inmate to help him put a stop to it with journalism, and her saying it would be pointless because the only thing someone like Batman understands is violence. That context makes the "consider this mercy" scene hit differently Good thing they could cut that meaningless part out so they could get another showing in every day! OH poo poo 69% DROP PEOPLE ARE SAYING IT'S INCOHERENT CALL JOSS HE'S GOOD RIGHT Star Wars cuts out the entire scene with the Sand People where Obi-Wan meets Luke, Luke goes from "We gotta find R2!" to sitting in Obi-Wan's hut being handed a lightsaber with nothing in between. No problems here!
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May 1, 2021 12:47
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JonathonSpectre posted:Good thing they could cut that meaningless part out so they could get another showing in every day! Yea someone mentioned the 69% drop and WBs panicked reaction to it earlier, and this is the most infuriating part of that entire ordeal. Given the reaction to BvS Ultimate and now especially ZSJL it’s extremely easy to imagine a timeline where that stupid last minute cut to get in more showings doesn’t happen and both movies are significantly more successful. And again the ironic thing is they mandated the cut because they were so super excited about the movie that they thought they had a hit. The fact that people are in charge of movies that don’t realize a movie changes when you cut 30 minutes is loving mind blowing.
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May 1, 2021 15:25
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Martman posted:Also the scene where you have BS media commenting on Superman features both Charlie Rose and Neil DeGrasse Tyson and it's like..... drat. I do like that Nancy Grace is in the movie as herself and is kinda the bad guy? I don't think any version of BvS is particularly good, but that's a master stroke.
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May 1, 2021 15:35
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Guy A. Person posted:And again the ironic thing is they mandated the cut because they were so super excited about the movie that they thought they had a hit. The fact that people are in charge of movies that don’t realize a movie changes when you cut 30 minutes is loving mind blowing.
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May 1, 2021 15:56
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Snowman_McK posted:This is true of the best ones too, though. This is the issue. They're all fine. There's not a bad one, and there's not a truly great one. This is my problem with 90% of everything now. I'm almost half way done living, and I don't have time for just "eh it's fine" now. I don't want to go to my grave regretting that I didn't keep up on the MCU or the Star Wars or whatever.
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May 1, 2021 16:28
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Necrothatcher posted:I loving hated the theatrical BvS and had to be dragged kicking and screaming to the Ultimate Ed, but it completely turned me around on it. It made me rethink who Zack Snyder was as a filmmaker. Which I realized he was a huge idiot who didn’t understand how to tell a story any more. That was wrong thankfully and it was just bad editing to keep a studio mandate.
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May 1, 2021 17:18
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Necrothatcher posted:I loving hated the theatrical BvS and had to be dragged kicking and screaming to the Ultimate Ed, but it completely turned me around on it. Then perhaps I will give it another go in the future. If it turns out to be another JL Snyder Cut scario then WB need to find whoever made the original film edits for BvS/JL and fire them into the Sun, they are losing money hand over foot with him behind the editing wheel. On another note, one of the big takeaways I get from watching all these Snyder movies is that he wants to make a Venom movie badly. For gently caress's sake Sony give this make a $TEXAS budget and make it happen already, I am dying to see that happen.
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May 1, 2021 17:54
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Parrotine posted:Then perhaps I will give it another go in the future. If it turns out to be another JL Snyder Cut scario then WB need to find whoever made the original film edits for BvS/JL and fire them into the Sun, they are losing money hand over foot with him behind the editing wheel. quote:On another note, one of the big takeaways I get from watching all these Snyder movies is that he wants to make a Venom movie badly. For gently caress's sake Sony give this make a $TEXAS budget and make it happen already, I am dying to see that happen.
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May 1, 2021 18:02
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Zack Snyder's Plastic Man
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May 1, 2021 18:21
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Snyder's expressed interest in Elektra Lives Again; I could have seen him doing it under Fox, Marvel would have to radically change their studio-director relationship to make that even a possibility.
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May 1, 2021 18:46
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Parrotine posted:Then perhaps I will give it another go in the future. If it turns out to be another JL Snyder Cut scario then WB need to find whoever made the original film edits for BvS/JL and fire them into the Sun, they are losing money hand over foot with him behind the editing wheel. Editors may officially hold that title, but they don't operate in a vacuum, as studio mandates on editing aren't restricted to just length, but also content. Case in point, both of the released BvS cuts were done by the same person, David Brenner, whose hand also played a significant role in keeping alive and shaping the editing work of the Snyder Cut. So while Brenner gets called incompetent and takes a hit to his reputation as a craftsmen, the anonymous & amorphous mass of corporate executives trying to appease investors to justify their checks still get their bonuses.
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May 1, 2021 20:42
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CelticPredator posted:Batman being a right winger racist rules It rules. Both Snyder and the MCU made a hero that's "Dick Cheney taking matters into his own hands" but only Snyder had the sense to pull the trigger and make him a full-on villain.
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May 2, 2021 03:48
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LesterGroans posted:It rules. And then have him see the error of his ways, rooted in the inability to deal with traumatic events, and convert to Christianity.
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May 2, 2021 04:31
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KVeezy3 posted:And then have him see the error of his ways, rooted in the inability to deal with traumatic events, and convert to Christianity. Batman going door-to-door recruiting superheroes for the Church of the Latter Day Superman rules so hard.
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May 2, 2021 04:35
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A Buttery Pastry posted:They should’ve just sped up the movie until it was 2 hours long. release the FitFortDanga cut!
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May 2, 2021 06:12
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MCU movies come across a lot better if you approach it from the perspective that the narrative and thematic content of a movie is irrelevant, and rather what matters is the appearance of the cast, the costumes used, and the extravagance of the visual effects. That is to say, if you think about it like a studio executive.
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May 2, 2021 07:55
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Jerk McJerkface posted:This is my problem with 90% of everything now. I'm almost half way done living, and I don't have time for just "eh it's fine" now. I don't want to go to my grave regretting that I didn't keep up on the MCU or the Star Wars or whatever. You'll be pleased to know that at least one of the new Star Wars things is straight up bad. I've decided that I no longer rate films on whether they're good or bad, but on whether they're interesting. It's done me a lot of good. Bongo Bill posted:MCU movies come across a lot better if you approach it from the perspective that the narrative and thematic content of a movie is irrelevant, and rather what matters is the appearance of the cast, the costumes used, and the extravagance of the visual effects. That is to say, if you think about it like a studio executive. They look like poo poo, rush the CGI artists and actively hide how good the costumes look.
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May 2, 2021 09:22
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