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No Pants posted:It seemed to me that his magical voice is part of his role as the White, since Gandalf uses it on the party when he reveals himself again (and then calls himself Saruman). It's a Gift, corrupted. Gandalf also uses it to cure Theoden.
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Apr 24, 2021 13:41
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Zopotantor posted:When he accuses Gandalf of trying to acquire "the crowns of seven kings, and the rods of the Five Wizards", that's just pure projection. He's got Isildur's bones in a cupboard in Orthanc. He's one hundred million percent projecting.
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Apr 24, 2021 13:54
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Gats Akimbo posted:He's got Isildur's bones in a cupboard in Orthanc. He's one hundred million percent projecting. Wait, what?
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Apr 24, 2021 17:38
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Oracle posted:Wait, what? He went looking for the site of the disaster of the Gladden Fields, figuring he could pick up the Ring for free. He found Isildur’s body and looted the rest of his stuff, but no ring, which is why he began to push the “uh yeah it’s somewhere in the sea apparently” line with the White Council while secretly suspecting one of them of having swiped it. It’s in Unfinished Tales iirc. Actually looking at the passage he just kept the loot and put Isildur out with the trash. Poor guy quote:Long afterwards, as the Third Age of the Elvish World waned and the War of the Ring approached, it was revealed to the Council of Elrond that the Ring had been found, sunk near the edge of the Gladden Fields and close to the western bank; though no trace of Isildur’s body was ever discovered. They were also then aware that Saruman had been secretly searching in the same region; but though he had not found the Ring (which had long before been carried off ), they did not yet know what else he might have discovered. skasion fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Apr 24, 2021 |
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Apr 24, 2021 17:52
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I misremembered slightly:Unfinished Tales posted:But King Elessar, when he was crowned in Gondor, began the re-ordering of his realm, and one of his first tasks was the restoration of Orthanc, where he proposed to set up again the palantír recovered from Saruman. Then all the secrets of the tower were searched. Many things of worth were found, jewels and heirlooms of Eorl, filched from Edoras by the agency of Wormtongue during King Théoden's decline, and other such things, more ancient and beautiful, from mounds and tombs far and wide. Saruman in his degradation had become not a dragon but a jackdaw. At last behind a hidden door that they could not have found or opened had not Elessar had the aid of Gimli the Dwarf a steel closet was revealed. Maybe it had been intended to receive the Ring; but it was almost bare. In a casket on a high shelf two things were laid. One was a small case of gold, attached to a fine chain; it was empty, and bore no letter or token, but beyond all doubt it had once borne the Ring about Isildur's neck. Next to it lay a treasure without price, long mourned as lost for ever: the Elendilmir itself, the white star of Elvish crystal upon a fillet of mithril that had descended from Silmarien to Elendil, and had been taken by him as the token of royalty in the North Kingdom. Every king and the chieftains that followed them in Arnor had borne the Elendilmir down even to Elessar himself; but though it was a jewel of great beauty, made by Elven-smiths in Imladris for Valandil Isildur's son, it had not the ancientry nor potency of the one that had been lost when Isildur fled into the dark and came back no more. efb. But yeah. Saruman got pretty gross.
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Apr 24, 2021 17:57
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drat, I really need to read Unfinished Tales. My coverage of the HoME is haphazard
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Apr 24, 2021 18:03
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Unfinished Tales isn’t part of HoME, it’s its own thing though it has a similar format. Basically it’s what Chris Tolkien did with everything that he couldn’t work into the Silmarillion. Then he came to feel like the idea of polishing up his dad’s stuff and trying to harmonize all of it was missing the point and decided to just do a twelve volume scholarly analysis of all his Middle-earth papers. That’s HoME.
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Apr 24, 2021 18:10
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Right, right. I keep getting it mixed up with The Lost Road or something. And on second thought I have read it, I just don't remember this bit. Welp
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Apr 24, 2021 18:14
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Over the course of the last half a year or so I've been slowly rereading LOTR in anticipation of going back to the Silmarillion, after taking a big break from the whole Tolkien thing after watching all three of the extended edition movies in one day. Just got real sick of hobbits for a while there, lol. My tendency when reading is to skim and backtrack a bunch, so I've been forcing myself to read it "out loud" in my head (or sometimes just quietly out loud for real) so I don't miss anything. I also find that helps me get a better idea of what the characters are feeling, because I'm basically scriptreading their dialogue. Is that weird?
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Apr 30, 2021 18:19
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Sounds good to me dude. Whatever works for you.
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Apr 30, 2021 19:29
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Tolkien's prose is great for reading out loud IMNSHO.
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Apr 30, 2021 19:42
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All of Tolkien's major influences were from oral poetic traditions. Probably makes more sense to read it aloud than silently.
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Apr 30, 2021 20:16
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I would guess that a pretty significant fraction of people’s first exposure to The Hobbit was from someone reading it to them
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Apr 30, 2021 22:54
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So I set a goal this year to finally start collecting the HoME series. I wanted the first American edition hardbacks. I set my eBay alerts and was going to piecemeal it out as I saw good deals. But then I managed to snag this listing for the entire set for just $200. Unbelievable deal. I’m so excited.
SeductiveReasoning fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Apr 30, 2021 |
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Apr 30, 2021 23:55
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webmeister posted:I would guess that a pretty significant fraction of people’s first exposure to The Hobbit was from someone reading it to them I randomly picked it out of the book shelf when I was in 5th grade. I had no idea what it was but it looked cool. It did not disappoint.
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May 1, 2021 04:17
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The book of lost tales owns so you'll be off to a strong start
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May 1, 2021 05:09
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Tinfang Warble?
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May 1, 2021 21:45
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Tinwelint.
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May 1, 2021 21:57
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Tevildo, Prince of Cats, should have found his way into later drafts somehow
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May 1, 2021 22:01
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cheetah7071 posted:Tevildo, Prince of Cats, should have found his way into later drafts somehow That is still Sauron's name! In my heart.
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May 1, 2021 23:38
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The Lay of Leithian is incredibly metal It owns
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May 2, 2021 00:17
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whats the story with the fat elf jester was it only in some gondolin version
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May 2, 2021 00:57
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cheetah7071 posted:Tevildo, Prince of Cats, should have found his way into later drafts somehow Tolkien's tendency to edit out the personality of his villains is definitely a mark against him, as opposed to Eddison or Peake. But maybe that's more on Christopher, Saruman & Grima are pretty great as published.
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May 2, 2021 01:19
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Also Gollum.
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May 2, 2021 01:42
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euphronius posted:Also Gollum. if he had had an elfier name like gollumfindel he's been a protagonist
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May 2, 2021 01:49
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Blood Boils posted:Tolkien's tendency to edit out the personality of his villains is definitely a mark against him, as opposed to Eddison or Peake. But maybe that's more on Christopher, Saruman & Grima are pretty great as published. The Tevildo stuff is pretty wild, but the Sauron material in Lay of Leithian that replaced it is incredibly good, probably my favorite evil bit in all of Tolkien. Tolkien uses evil characters quite sparingly. He never follows one around in perspective. If you see one it’s almost always because a good guy was there to report on it — almost the only exception I can think of to this is the story of Morgoth and Ungoliant. Eddison and Peake both absolutely love to follow scheming bastards around while they do dirt.
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May 2, 2021 02:03
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Yeah I'm not sad that Tevildo was replaced by Sauron in Beren and Luthien. I'm just sad Tevildo never found another home somewhere else.
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May 2, 2021 02:15
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cheetah7071 posted:Yeah I'm not sad that Tevildo was replaced by Sauron in Beren and Luthien. I'm just sad Tevildo never found another home somewhere else. Corey Olsen has him as one of Sauron's primary hench-Maia in the Silmarillion Film Project.
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May 2, 2021 03:46
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euphronius posted:Also Gollum. Oh yeah that guy
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May 3, 2021 00:47
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Dominic Monaghan and Billy Boyd are launching a new podcast about their experience making the LOTR films.
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May 4, 2021 22:30
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSJ7Sl-Q-HE
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May 5, 2021 05:38
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Anshu posted:Corey Olsen has him as one of Sauron's primary hench-Maia in the Silmarillion Film Project. Kind of weird that he doesn't seem to have any hench-Maiar by the time Frodo and co roll around now I think of it, but I guess attrition from war, war, more war and Numenor going splat would explain that.
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May 5, 2021 10:06
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Gats Akimbo posted:Kind of weird that he doesn't seem to have any hench-Maiar by the time Frodo and co roll around now I think of it, but I guess attrition from war, war, more war and Numenor going splat would explain that. After Morgoth went on his very long trip there wasn't really any reason for any of the other Maia to follow Sauron. None of the Maia were specifically loyal to Sauron, they just let him be in charge while Morgoth was indisposed.
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May 5, 2021 18:11
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Not too sure Sauron would have been interested in having a fellow god in his camp either. He would never be able to trust them and it would take a lot of work and risk to bring them completely under his power. The one time we see him actively work with another god it’s Saruman. Neither of them trusts the other, both are planning to bump each other off ASAP.
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May 5, 2021 19:41
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Also by the time of the Third Age the old powers are pretty much waning and all but gone. Durin's Bane is the only other corrutped Maia we know of and it's stated Sauron knew of it but wasn't gonna try and mess with him or recruit him. And Gandalf had Smaug killed before he could joinSauron. Pretty much in terms of the "ancient evils" still active in Middle-earth, only Shelob sorta kinda worked with Sauron, although even she had no loyalty to him and just let him give her food.
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May 5, 2021 19:53
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sweet geek swag posted:After Morgoth went on his very long trip there wasn't really any reason for any of the other Maia to follow Sauron. None of the Maia were specifically loyal to Sauron, they just let him be in charge while Morgoth was indisposed. They'd have good reason to worry about what might happen to them if they tried heading back to Valinor, at least. Even if most of them had the sense to avoid making things worse for themselves there's always some idiots who just can't stop digging. skasion posted:Not too sure Sauron would have been interested in having a fellow god in his camp either. He would never be able to trust them and it would take a lot of work and risk to bring them completely under his power. The one time we see him actively work with another god it's Saruman. Neither of them trusts the other, both are planning to bump each other off ASAP. There's a lot of power variation though - Saruman may be a threat to Sauron, but relatively low-power Maiar shouldn't be. And we know he finds henchthings/lieutenants with more power than Orcs useful; even before he made himself the Nazgul he had boss werewolves and whatever Thuringwethil was. NikkolasKing posted:Also by the time of the Third Age the old powers are pretty much waning and all but gone. Durin's Bane is the only other corrutped Maia we know of and it's stated Sauron knew of it but wasn't gonna try and mess with him or recruit him. Didn't Tolkien suggest at some point the Great Goblin in The Hobbit was one?
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May 5, 2021 20:10
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NikkolasKing posted:Also by the time of the Third Age the old powers are pretty much waning and all but gone. Durin's Bane is the only other corrutped Maia we know of and it's stated Sauron knew of it but wasn't gonna try and mess with him or recruit him. The orcs of course !
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May 5, 2021 20:11
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If even Sauron was given the chance to come to Valinor and get a trial and probably not be ejected into the void like Morgoth, I'm sure others did too and some of them took them up on it Maybe Tevildo is just hanging out in Valinor, sleeping in a nice sunny spot on Taniquetil
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May 5, 2021 20:16
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The guy's name is T Evil Do.
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May 5, 2021 21:04
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SHISHKABOB posted:The guy's name is T Evil Do. 
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May 5, 2021 21:50
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