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Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

Araxxor posted:

I really do not care for the Holy Mantle nerf at all. It's way too easy to get double tapped as The Lost with the reduced i-frames. Especially if you get smacked by a brimstone laser. Like 2 or 4 seconds of i-frames for blocking a 1 heart or 2 heart hit was pretty ridiculous before, but did it really have to be worse than half a heart of damage?

Yeah it's bad


No Wave posted:

really? I think lazarus is a lot worse/weaker. The transformation effect is cool in terms of visual/noise design and how it pops but it's just a nasty resource check.

you're doing the same basic thing (balancing items between two characters), but you're not dealing with having two hitboxes that can be moved independently, and flip lets you swap between them if necessary.

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Einwand
Nov 3, 2012

You idiot.
In this world it's pet or BE pet.

The biggest issue that tinted laz has is that you have to spread your items between the two, so you've perpetually got two weaker characters with active items that functionally charge half as fast as normal. At least with Jacob+Esau you've got more upfront fire power than normal and the ability to get multiple items from choice item rooms. There's no doubt that they're not an easy character, but they've got something interesting and unique going on even if it's painful to play sometimes, alt laz is just boring.

Evil Eagle
Nov 5, 2009

Spelling Mitsake posted:

Mother keeps crashing my game :/

Is this a known thing or a me thing?

I haven't seen anything about it, but it's happening to me sometimes too...most recently on a sure win run of challenge 44, it crashed twice on mother then on round 3 I accidentally opened 1 extra room and spawned tainted esau who killed me

pumpinglemma
Apr 28, 2009

DD: Fondly regard abomination.

Color Printer posted:

i really don't think dogma should be allowed to do the spin-and-dash-across-the-screen attack six loving times in a row

apparently the wiki says that's how many times in a row it does that attack and i swear sometimes it does less but i guess i'm wrong. either way, six times seems nuts for fast that attack is

edit: also i have never had an interesting apollyon run. do those even exist
If you’re relying on your own reaction time for that attack then you’re doing it wrong. He’ll always come from the direction he went in the last time, targeted to your current position, so you just have to be moving at a rough right angle to that when it happens and you’ll dodge it every time. The tricky part is dodging past the feathers while you do that, but they move very slowly so it’s not too bad unless you’re Jacob and Esau. The attack I really hate is the brimstone attack, I can’t figure out how to dodge the start of it consistently.

welcome
Jun 28, 2002

rail slut

GuavaMoment posted:

Pop a charged Alabaster Box in a secret room, the items will create bone hearts there.

You can also craft any active item while already holding another in the secret room.

watho
Aug 2, 2013


The real world will, again tomorrow, function and run without me.

choked hard on the knife piece 2 chase as tainted keeper with swallowed penny and holy mantle :(

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!
Your punishment is to play more of the most fun character.

watho
Aug 2, 2013


The real world will, again tomorrow, function and run without me.

tainted keeper is v fun. having basically no room for error during the chase is not

Inzombiac
Mar 19, 2007

PARTY ALL NIGHT

EAT BRAINS ALL DAY


MOTHERFUCK!

I got yet another great Keeper run going, nearly unlocked tainted and accidentally used a black rune in the room that had the Fool card.
I'm seriously loving cursed.

BUT! I learned that Soy Milk for Keeper is actually quite good. Not sure if it is something I'd take all the time but I don't think it is a run killer anymore.

Kawalimus
Jan 17, 2008

Better Living Through Birding And Pessimism

watho posted:

choked hard on the knife piece 2 chase as tainted keeper with swallowed penny and holy mantle :(

One thing to remember, is the head will NEVER just collide into you. Try it! Just stand there and dare it to hit you. It won't until it charges. Knowing this makes the chase so so so much easier to not get nervous and lose a couple HP on. As long as you have one "square" to dodge to, you can avoid it every single time.

Black August
Sep 28, 2003

I want a mod that addresses golden trinkets, since half of them have an effect that could be doubled or improved but they're not

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

I kind of wish the game would just reroll golden trinkets if it's one the golden-ness is meaningless on. I mainly find golden stuff like the Missing Poster.

Black August
Sep 28, 2003

My one good gold trinket was Guppy's Drawing, since I scored it when I had Guppy's Tail already and it worked as advertised. It is fun to think of ways to effectively double or improve a trinket effect, so I'm sure something will come out early, which hopefully includes adding to the do-nothing Mom's Box interactions.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!
I imagine birthright has to be the first item they improve. It's literally half implemented.

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

I think something's wrong with greed / ultra greed, every time I've fought him I've been hit by invisible things

No Wave posted:

I imagine birthright has to be the first item they improve. It's literally half implemented.

peak isaac is poo poo being broken, and then them 'fixing' it by just making it bad

ThisIsACoolGuy
Nov 2, 2010

Shaped like a friend



This was the run that let me beat the chest and void. I hate this character so much you have no idea. Delerium took less than scratch damage so each brother was down to 1HP when Esau poo poo out a rainbow and full healed the both of them, then went back down to 1 heart while pleading 'come on please let me just have this victory please please please.'

Kawalimus
Jan 17, 2008

Better Living Through Birding And Pessimism
Another Tainted Lazarus win!! This time on Light path and Mega Satan. drat it for not giving me a shot at Delirium. Not sure I would have won though. Man do his runs take a long time cause you are really trying to squeeze every thing out of every floor. Epic Fetus in a secret room did the trick. I kind of enjoy the character though I have to be in the right mood to do it. Same with Tainted Eden though I enjoy that less even when I am in the mood.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!
If it weren't for glass shard and the messed up second row of hearts situation I would actually love playing as tainted Eden.

Kawalimus
Jan 17, 2008

Better Living Through Birding And Pessimism

No Wave posted:

If it weren't for glass shard and the messed up second row of hearts situation I would actually love playing as tainted Eden.

I Just can't cope mentally with the run constantly changing. I even have problems with Tainted Bethany despite most seeing her as OP. It's real hard for me to get stuff and then lose it like that--knocks me out of the "flow" of things. I never even liked to reroll runs back when it was stronger for that same reason.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

Kawalimus posted:

I Just can't cope mentally with the run constantly changing. I even have problems with Tainted Bethany despite most seeing her as OP. It's real hard for me to get stuff and then lose it like that--knocks me out of the "flow" of things. I never even liked to reroll runs back when it was stronger for that same reason.
Ha, yeah, I'm the opposite I like seeing stuff get completely hosed up. Love Esau Jr, it's like a D4 roll with an undo option.

goferchan
Feb 8, 2004

It's 2006. I am taking 276 yeti furs from the goodies hoard.

The Moon Monster posted:

I kind of wish the game would just reroll golden trinkets if it's one the golden-ness is meaningless on. I mainly find golden stuff like the Missing Poster.

You missed your chance to unlock the Golden Lost

Black August
Sep 28, 2003

I wouldn't mind there being purified versions of each character, alts that have interestingly-broken mechanics.

Ogmius815
Aug 25, 2005
centrism is a hell of a drug

I’ve asked this question before but I can’t find my post.

How is the Switch version of this game? I understand it doesn’t have the newest DLC yet, but since it will be out later in the year, is it worth picking up the switch version? I haven’t played BoI since the original, flash-based Steam version but I liked that.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

Ogmius815 posted:

I’ve asked this question before but I can’t find my post.

How is the Switch version of this game? I understand it doesn’t have the newest DLC yet, but since it will be out later in the year, is it worth picking up the switch version? I haven’t played BoI since the original, flash-based Steam version but I liked that.

It's great, I never noticed any performance problems outside of gamebreaking runs that would give the PC version performance problems. The joycons are still my favorite control method for the game by a pretty good margin. The portability is nice, if you care about that. That said not having the big new expansion until some undetermined point in the future is a significant mark against it. But it's still a massive amount of new stuff if you haven't played since the flash version so you might not mind.

Ogmius815
Aug 25, 2005
centrism is a hell of a drug

The Moon Monster posted:

It's great, I never noticed any performance problems outside of gamebreaking runs that would give the PC version performance problems. The joycons are still my favorite control method for the game by a pretty good margin. The portability is nice, if you care about that. That said not having the big new expansion until some undetermined point in the future is a significant mark against it. But it's still a massive amount of new stuff if you haven't played since the flash version so you might not mind.

I guess I might buy it. Even if I end up buying the last expansion as a stand alone game (thanks Switch release model!) for sixty or seventy dollars later this year that will just balance out the fact that I played the original for like 100 hours after buying it for $5 on sale.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

Ogmius815 posted:

later this year

That may be optimistic.

Araxxor
Oct 20, 2012

My disdain for you all knows no bounds.

Grapplejack posted:

I think something's wrong with greed / ultra greed, every time I've fought him I've been hit by invisible things

Haven't seen that, but I wouldn't be surprised if more things got messed up because his first phase's boss armor is currently really hosed up. It's permanently doubled for the entire fight.

Inzombiac posted:

MOTHERFUCK!

I got yet another great Keeper run going, nearly unlocked tainted and accidentally used a black rune in the room that had the Fool card.
I'm seriously loving cursed.

BUT! I learned that Soy Milk for Keeper is actually quite good. Not sure if it is something I'd take all the time but I don't think it is a run killer anymore.

Yeah they did 2 things to buff it big time. The reduced knockback is a ton of help. Soy Milk is barely a DPS up as your first item. It's at most a 10% DPS increase with base Isaac stats as your first item, but in practice you knocked enemies all over the place so that landing every tear before Repentance was a herculean task. They also made it so that the tears cap can go beyond 15 tears per second now, which is a big buff to it since you can benefit from tears up increases.

I wouldn't say it's a must have, but it'll benefit a lot more builds more easily now. I ended up shredding the Beast with it and enough damage and tears ups. It's also super broken with Godhead where its aura deals set damage now.

Almond Milk is still my favorite of the milk items, and my favorite item period from Repentance. It's far from the most powerful item, but it just guarantees a fun time for me.

jivjov
Sep 13, 2007

But how does it taste? Yummy!
Dinosaur Gum

The Moon Monster posted:

That may be optimistic.

There are live preorders for Repentance on Switch dated for 9/30

Kawalimus
Jan 17, 2008

Better Living Through Birding And Pessimism
Rolled random for another tainted run and got...Tainted Lazarus again. I thought about rerolling cause I just played him but figured I'd go to the first item room to see. Which was Adrenaline...good enough to keep me going. Wasn't an overpowered run but managed to get myself a True Ending victory(with an awesome unlock) and a two-win streak with Tainted Lazarus! Last fight was tight because first form Dogma spammed his stupid beam attack over and over and over again and messed up my Adrenaline-fueled Live Lazarus. Was down to 1.5 hearts on one and 2 hearts on the other as I got to Death...but perfected the rest of the fight!! Luckily didn't see any falling stalactites against Beast but was prepared to flip if I got hit. Man that was probably the first time I ever dodged through those skulls against Death without getting hit with no invincibility help or anything. Maybe the most dialed in I've been playing repentance.

Pigbuster
Sep 12, 2010

Fun Shoe

Araxxor posted:

Almond Milk is still my favorite of the milk items, and my favorite item period from Repentance. It's far from the most powerful item, but it just guarantees a fun time for me.

Be careful getting it with Cricket's Body, though, I lost a promising run because I just couldn't see a drat thing.

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

oh my god I just lost the most incredible lost run on my way up to the beast by not paying attention and walking into a devil beggar

Ogmius815
Aug 25, 2005
centrism is a hell of a drug

Oh man I used to be so good at this game. But that was like 7 years ago and now I suck and have no idea what’s going on.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

jivjov posted:

There are live preorders for Repentance on Switch dated for 9/30

:shrug:

Color Printer
May 9, 2011

You get used to it. I don't
even see the code. All I see
is Ipecac, Scapular, Polyphemus...


I'd like to give a big thank you to Bumbo for helping kill phase 1 Dogma by parking his rear end right on the TV. I'd also like to give a big gently caress you to Bumbo for doing basically gently caress all to help kill phase 2 Dogma because he didn't move his rear end off the broken TV, not sure if he was stuck or his AI broke. He did throw out some bombs occasionally but that did not help a whole lot.

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

lmao oh your reward for beating mother as the lost is....... a really terrible item.....

Kawalimus
Jan 17, 2008

Better Living Through Birding And Pessimism

Grapplejack posted:

lmao oh your reward for beating mother as the lost is....... a really terrible item.....

No it's not?? Lost Soul is a strong item..even game-winning on ascent runs. BFF item gives it holy mantle also.

Araxxor
Oct 20, 2012

My disdain for you all knows no bounds.

Kawalimus posted:

No it's not?? Lost Soul is a strong item..even game-winning on ascent runs. BFF item gives it holy mantle also.

Also you can easily cheese at least 1 payout from it if you know it spawned on the floor by picking it up after you're done with the floor.

If anything the really terrible payout is beating Mega Satan with Tainted Lost. I have no idea what the hell the benefits from that one could possibly be. Save that one for last if you can. Last thing you need is a detriment ruining a potential Tainted Lost or other challenge character run.

Araxxor fucked around with this message at 02:11 on May 3, 2021

DrSnakeLaser
Sep 6, 2011


Had a great run yesterday using the tainted Jacob exploit, finished most of the hard mode marks. Today was the compete opposite, boss rush and hush were the two things I was aiming for and I think I got there once. I've taken to using dark esau to wipe out early rooms because gently caress slogging through giant rooms filled with flies and no damage boosts.

I did find stitches and found you can enter (and leave) curse rooms without damage.

Araxxor
Oct 20, 2012

My disdain for you all knows no bounds.
Okay yeah lesson learned, I'm not taking Mars anymore. For fights that require precise positioning (Which is nearly all the final bosses in the game) when you're playing on a keyboard, it's game ruining. Had an Eve run that went fantastic then died at Ultra Death because I accidentally dashed into a scythe. Along with all the other times I accidentally dashed into an obstacle.

On the other hand, Eye of the Occult is loving amazing. I was skeptical of it at fist but being able to redirect missed shots really helps keep up your DPS. I'm honestly not sure if I really agree with the "gently caress devil rooms" meta. Like angel rooms are really good, and I do think devil rooms got overnerfed and could use a bit of a buff, but a couple of won runs happened when I took some amazing devil deals.

Araxxor fucked around with this message at 03:20 on May 3, 2021

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Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

I think Devil Rooms are in a decent place. It's not like old Isaac where you'd often take a useless devil deal just to make sure you can trigger The Polaroid but there's a lot of decent items that are situationally worth picking up, and a couple of run winners that it's worth looking for. I don't think skipping the first devil room is worth it (assuming a non-Mega Satan path) unless there's some reason you're very unlikely to take any deal.

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