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yeah jeez no wonder these guys felt they could take on apple
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May 4, 2021 02:04
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That email from epic has strong “just did a line of coke” energy.
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May 4, 2021 02:05
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buglord posted:I’ll bite. What’s bad about the third game? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7SVY9CyBBc
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May 4, 2021 02:09
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Sony and Epic have since gotten pretty buddy/buddy, so I guess they worked it all out.
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May 4, 2021 02:10
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Anno posted:The Epic vs. Apple trial began today, giving the public a rare glance into some of the the dealings and internal metrics of some big players in the industry. This part is pretty interesting because it shows they give the devs a fixed dollar amount and don’t give anything for each unique download. Fez for example got $75k for like 2.5 million downloads lol Also someone in the other thread said that each customer costs Epic $240 but the paying ones cost $3400 lol.
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May 4, 2021 02:12
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Shenmue 3 was/is kinda cursed. Fan expectations were so high but it had a tiny budget compared to the previous games. Sega didn't want to touch it because they'd been burned twice in the past by losing enormous amounts of money on the franchise. Suzuki continued on with a small team and they had to reinvent a bunch of stuff from scratch with modern dev tools and practices. And what got made was... technically a sequel, technically. As in "Ryo Hazuki continues his mundane adventures without much stuff happening", which appears to be the stuff Yu Suzuki is most interested in: Life simulations and sense of place. He cares less for the overall story, even though it is supposedly mostly fleshed out by this point. It is remarkable it got made at all, but I don't think a Shenmue 4 is gonna happen for a number of reasons. At least not in the form that fans would want.
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May 4, 2021 02:14
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I wonder if Epic told devs how much money other devs were makng. I doubt it so I fully expect some "wait they got paid HOW MUCH?" shenanigans on twitter.
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May 4, 2021 02:15
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Anno posted:Sony and Epic have since gotten pretty buddy/buddy, so I guess they worked it all out. Fortnite was the very first game to ship PS4 crossplay wasn't it? I wonder what agreement they came to in the end
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May 4, 2021 02:17
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and i wonder if gio corsi bailed from sony in part cause he wasn't cut out for that kind of corporate gangster talk.
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May 4, 2021 02:18
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MarcusSA posted:Also someone in the other thread said that each customer costs Epic $240 but the paying ones cost $3400 lol. I don't know how you're reading these docs but each 'customer' costs Epic $2.37, of which 7% will go on to pay for something. They're definitely still losing money as a company doing the free games but from the free game contracts they're making about 40 cents per user acquisition. Det_no posted:I wonder if Epic told devs how much money other devs were makng. I doubt it so I fully expect some "wait they got paid HOW MUCH?" shenanigans on twitter. I doubt you'll see the actual devs being surprised, I'd wager Epic made the math that they based their rate on available during contract negotiation (average cost per UA, a guess on how many users they expect to acquire from your game) Count Uvula fucked around with this message at 02:33 on May 4, 2021 |
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May 4, 2021 02:29
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Those free game user acquisition numbers are real crazy. There appears to be some link between the final payout and the number of new EGS accounts created. Maybe some upfront initial cost based on how many new users Epic expects the free game to attract and then there's milestones beyond that? Subnautica got super lucky by being the first free game, as it meant that they helped Epic get 800K new accounts and had 4.6 million claims. Meanwhile, Super Meat Boy is the second free game released and it only generated a little under 100K accounts with 1.7 million claims (and the payout to Team Meat was 3.58% of what Unknown Worlds got,  )The numbers seem to vary a lot. - World of Goo: 155K new accounts, 2D Boy only got paid $50K - Enter the Gungeon: 112K new accounts, Devolver was paid $700K - The End Is Nigh: 27K new accounts, Edmund McMillen got paid $200K - Batman: Arkham Collection: 613K (!) new accounts, WB Games got paid $1.5 million ErrEff fucked around with this message at 02:47 on May 4, 2021 |
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May 4, 2021 02:45
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ErrEff posted:- World of Goo got 155K new accounts, 2D Boy only got paid $50K There's some correlation with how old the games are there, World of Goo is so deep into the long-tail at 13 years old that $50k may still have been a decent win for them
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May 4, 2021 02:48
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So far this is my favourite documentquote:A $10 console redeemed card looks like this: Epic Vice Principal of Business Development posted:I will push to have Gearbox cover "freight / ingest / peg card" Epic Publishing Strategy Director posted:Gearbox should eat ingestion, they are doing the work That's it. That's all the discussion. How can we make Gearbox lose 8 cents on each of these cards instead of paying it ourselves.
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May 4, 2021 02:50
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Super Meat Boy had been in 4-5 humble bundles at that point and was 6-7 years old, similar story for World of Goo. The prices are clearly related to popularity and expected value. Subnautica had only been in one 30$ bundle and it was around the full release/leaving early access date when it was an Epic free game.
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May 4, 2021 02:51
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what's a "console redeemed card"?
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May 4, 2021 02:52
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Rinkles posted:what's a "console redeemed card"? I assume a $10 v-bucks pre-paid card you can redeem for Fortnite.
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May 4, 2021 02:54
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Anno posted:Also here are two emails of Sony and Epic execs having a pissing contest. Dear Mr. Sony: Let's work out a good deal! You don't want to be responsible for losing thousands of PSN subscribers, and I don't want to be responsible for destroying Playstation's stock price - And I will. I've already given you a little sample with respect to our PS+ titles. I have worked hard to solve some of your problems. Don't let the world down. You can make a great deal. General Microsoft is willing to negotiate with you, and he is willing to make concessions that that they would never have made in the past. I am confidentially enclosing a copy of his letter to me, just received. History will look upon you favorably if you get this done the right and humane way. It will look upon you forever as the devil if good things don't happen. Don't be a tough guy. Don't be a fool! I will call you later.
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May 4, 2021 02:56
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Anno posted:I assume a $10 v-bucks pre-paid card you can redeem for Fortnite. Specifically one redeemed on the PS/Xbox/Switch version of Fortnite so Sony/MS/Nintendo gets a slice of the value Epic will get a bigger cut when the cards are redeemed on the PC version since there's no platform middleman
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May 4, 2021 02:58
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repiv posted:Specifically one redeemed on the PS/Xbox/Switch version of Fortnite so Sony/MS/Nintendo gets a slice of the value but how does gearbox fit into that?
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May 4, 2021 02:59
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I have no idea  Epic doesn't own Gearbox so it's not like they're being forced, Gearbox must be getting something out of this arrangement
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May 4, 2021 03:01
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Count Uvula posted:I don't know how you're reading these docs but each 'customer' costs Epic $2.37, of which 7% will go on to pay for something. They're definitely still losing money as a company doing the free games but from the free game contracts they're making about 40 cents per user acquisition. Someone did the math. Maybe wrong but it was funny either way BARONS CYBER SKULL posted:doing the maths on their losses for the last few years from the store + the amount of accounts gained
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May 4, 2021 03:02
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gearbox handle the physical distribution side for epic elsewhere, it's a long-term agreement and in the court exhibits
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May 4, 2021 03:03
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repiv posted:There's some correlation with how old the games are there, World of Goo is so deep into the long-tail at 13 years old that $50k may still have been a decent win for them That's true, but Epic's UA cost was way lower for those "cheap" games compared to some of the ones where more money was being spent. So Epic got a much better deal, cost-wise, from the devs that they paid very little to, like 2D Boy, Team Meat and Polytron.
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May 4, 2021 03:04
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MarcusSA posted:This part is pretty interesting because it shows they give the devs a fixed dollar amount and don’t give anything for each unique download.  That free games chart linked above shows their "user acquisition" cost as varying from $0.32 to $12 depending on the game, averaging out at $2.37. For example they paid $1.5mil for Batman Arkham Collection and got 613,912 new (free) users.  The other link shows that 7.13% of people who join for free games eventually buy something. With $2.37 cost per user that means it costs Epic $33.24 to get a paying user through the weekly-free-games program. The chart also shows that those converted-from-free-games users spend an average of $40.00, meaning Epic's free game program is actually somehow a net profit? Although these numbers might be totally wrong because "users acquired first via free game" probably includes Fortnite as well. RPATDO_LAMD fucked around with this message at 03:13 on May 4, 2021 |
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May 4, 2021 03:09
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 Here's a color coded list of games of ones where Epic Games, in theory, profited. Cyan for profit, red for loss, green they didn't pay anything for. Bandwidth and customer support ain't free so dunno where the actual cut off would be. Best investment for EGS goes to World of Goo where they paid out $50,000 and made back around $434,000 Worst investment goes to Celeste where they paid out 750,000 and made back 175,00 lmao ErrEff posted:Subnautica got super lucky by being the first free game, as it meant that they helped Epic get 800K new accounts and had 4.6 million claims. Meanwhile, Super Meat Boy is the second free game released and it only generated a little under 100K accounts with 1.7 million claims (and the payout to Team Meat was 3.58% of what Unknown Worlds got, The buyouts aren't rounded for the chart, there's no per unit price or anything. Definitely just based on Epic's projections, probably based largely on each games's steam metrics which might explain why World of Goo got such a low payout (Projections underestimating it because it's been out for like 15 years) MarcusSA posted:Someone did the math. Maybe wrong but it was funny either way If they're using the losses the EGS posted as a whole they're counting all of the poo poo Epic Games has been paying for and not just the free games. Exclusivity for Control apparently cost Epic Games 10,500,000 which is just under what the entire chart of free games cost them  RPATDO_LAMD posted:Although these numbers might be totally wrong because "users acquired first via free game" probably includes Fortnite as well. The UA chart's new user number is much lower than the ARPPU diagram so the ARPPU diagram was either made significantly later or includes ~14 million fortnite players Count Uvula fucked around with this message at 03:34 on May 4, 2021 |
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May 4, 2021 03:13
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:Although these numbers might be totally wrong because "users acquired first via free game" probably includes Fortnite as well. Going by the rough stats available I don't think they're counting Fortnite players, 350 million Fortnite accounts * 22% on PC = ~77 million PC accounts vs 18.5 million "acquired by EGS free game"
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May 4, 2021 03:19
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I hope we get to see the minimum sales guarantee numbers, I bet there is some real spicy stuff in there.
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May 4, 2021 03:29
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Gay Rat Wedding posted:Dear Mr. Sony: 
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May 4, 2021 03:46
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It may come up in a document later but I thought I'd put together a list of the EGS PC-exclusive releases from this time period, at least the stuff I can piece together myself:pre:RollerCoaster Tycoon Adventures 29/11/18 Hello Neighbor: Hide and Seek 07/12/18 Ashen 07/12/18 Genesis Alpha One 29/01/19 Metro: Exodus 15/02/19 The Division 2 (Uplay) 15/03/19 Satisfactory 19/03/19 Operencia: The Stolen Sun 08/03/19 The Walking Dead: The Final Season 26/03/19 Dangerous Driving 09/04/19 World War Z 16/04/19 Anno 1800 16/04/19 Close to the Sun 02/05/19 Shakedown Hawaii 07/05/19 Dauntless 21/05/19 Observation 21/05/19 Outer Wilds 30/05/19 Journey 06/06/19 Omen of Sorrow 07/06/19 Sinking City 27/06/19 Tetris Effect 23/07/19 Rebel Galaxy Outlaw 13/08/19 Ancestors: The Humankind Odyssey 28/08/19 Control 28/08/19 Falcon Age 06/09/19 Borderlands 3 13/09/19 Cardpocalypse 19/09/19 Untitled Goose Game 20/09/19 What The Golf? 20/09/19 The Outer Worlds 01/10/19 Ghostbusters: The Video Game Remastered 04/10/19 Ghost Recon: Breakpoint 04/10/19 A Knight's Quest 10/10/19 ReadySet Heroes (Sony-published) 29/10/19 Superliminal 12/11/19 Rune II 12/11/19 Bee Simulator 15/11/19 Paranoia: Happiness is Mandatory 06/12/19 MechWarrior 5: Mercenaries 10/12/19 ErrEff fucked around with this message at 05:21 on May 4, 2021 |
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May 4, 2021 03:51
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ErrEff posted:Those free game user acquisition numbers are real crazy. How much did Unknown Worlds get paid? edit: oops, nevermind. Found the link. Zesty fucked around with this message at 04:09 on May 4, 2021 |
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May 4, 2021 04:00
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This lawsuit is sounding pretty "epic"
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May 4, 2021 04:23
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ErrEff posted:It may come up in a document later but I thought I'd put together a list of the EGS PC-exclusive releases from this time period, at least the stuff I can piece together myself: Satisfactory came out 19 March 2019 19/03/19 Paranoia: Happiness is Mandatory came out December 6, 2019 06/12/19 Sinking City came out June 27, 2019 27/06/19 Shakedown Hawaii came out May 7, 2019 07/05/19 Falcon Age was Sep 6, 2019 06/09/19 A Knight's Quest best date I can get is Oct 6 or 10 2019 (looks like zero people cared about this game) 10/10/19 or 06/10/19 Genesis Alpha One was Jan 29, 2019 29/01/19 Superliminal was November 12, 2019 12/11/19 Rebel Galaxy Outlaw was August 13, 2019 13/08/19 I think there is more but ughh. Also pretty embarrassing Epic doesn't have an easy-to-find list. Edit: Observation came out May 21, 2019 21/05/19 Ancestors: The Humankind Odyssey was Aug 27, 2019 28/08/19 Hub Cat fucked around with this message at 05:05 on May 4, 2021 |
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May 4, 2021 04:28
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Hub Cat posted:You're missing some titles Yeah, the fact that this info is kinda hard to come by and strewn across multiple sources (an old megathread on r/fuckepic, egsexclusives.com, some EGS achievements spreadsheet, various listicles and press releases) is annoying. Thanks, I'll edit my list with your additions.
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May 4, 2021 05:16
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DX-3712 outlines a 5 year outlook for EGS (2019-2024) and include two models that deviate in 2021 and beyond, "Aggressive" and "Winding Down". The "Aggressive" model where they keep spending a lot of cash on minimum guarantee deals throughout the 5-year period, averaging half a billion dollars each year. This model predicts 50% of PC revenue if Steam does not react in this time period, and around 35% if Steam does react. The "Winding Down" model has Epic cutting down on the minimum guarantee deals in the middle of 2021, focusing more on the big games, and then basically stopping doing deals entirely with indies and only focusing on a few heavy hitter titles each year. Half of the money in 2021 and 2022 spent on deals compared to the aggressive model, and only a sixth of that money spent in 2023 and 2024. A total of 20% of PC revenue could be captured according to this model.
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May 4, 2021 05:42
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I lack the much needed popcorn while reading about this trial.
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May 4, 2021 05:55
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I really enjoy reading all the information that is coming out of the trial.
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May 4, 2021 06:22
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ErrEff posted:DX-3712 outlines a 5 year outlook for EGS (2019-2024) and include two models that deviate in 2021 and beyond, "Aggressive" and "Winding Down". What part of their projections include adding a cart to their store front?
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May 4, 2021 06:33
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 edit:eww twitter mutilated that with compression  Edit part 2: Assuming I'm reading this right it looks like they only sold a little over 100k copies of the Division 2 March to April Hub Cat fucked around with this message at 07:05 on May 4, 2021 |
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May 4, 2021 06:43
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Doesn't that basically mean the end purchasers are SOL? It's a pain for the devs and they're losing money from all the chargebacks etc, but they're not really losing sales. Buying accounts is dodgy as heck, those fools knew what they where doing.
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May 4, 2021 07:08
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remember how they finally implemented preloading in time for borderlands 3, but only because gearbox had to make it for them
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May 4, 2021 07:13
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