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sushibandit posted:Chong is good because he provides cryo infusion with his elemental skill, which has a low downtime, and his burst can actually do respectable damage. As for who the other ten characters are:  All of them have below 10% play rate on this chart. But I think two of the characters with <10% play rate are very good. Boris Galerkin posted:I don’t think I’m gonna get Zhongli, and I haven’t invested in a geo character yet so I guess I should do that. Who’s more versatile/gonna help me out the most? Ningguang (idk C1 or C2, whichever the first good constellation is), Noelle (C6), or Albedo? Main DPS are Klee and Hu Tao (and Venti), with standard Benny XQ supports and Qiqi. No Wave fucked around with this message at 15:11 on May 4, 2021 |
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May 4, 2021 15:09
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Reiterpallasch posted:alright there's like a lot of people making this same argument, so i'm willing to accept that i'm possibly the insane one in this conversation, but i seriously don't get it. why is it unreasonable to say that keqing is bad because she's by far the least effective 5* unit, in a game that makes you pay real money or unreal amounts of time for 5* units? I'm hear you, and I get it, but just give up. There is no logic. This is anime town.
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May 4, 2021 15:14
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I'm always surprised to see Beidou so low on usage charts. She's so powerful, and has one of the best designs in the game, too. If they wind up going through with buffing reactions besides Melt and Vaporize, I wonder if she'll go up. I suppose it doesn't help that she still hasn't shown up in any story capacity. Xinyan suffers from that too, but it seems to be pretty hard to make her work well.
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May 4, 2021 15:20
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I do think Beidou is weaker in this abyss (certainly weaker than the last one where she was beyond excellent). She can't hurt the abyss lector shields and the electro cicin mage is a giant problem given that running another electro with her is basically mandatory. She can make the mimics flinch which is good but vaporizing or freezing them is even better.
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May 4, 2021 15:22
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Every human being has a different bar for what is unpleasant, unacceptable, or unfavorable. Arguing about whether or not a character makes it over your personal bar is pointless. Before you can do that you have to ask people to set their bars where yours are, which practically no one is going to do, in fact it's a hill many people are quite willing to die on. People's preferences for the difficulty of various game tasks are even more variant and subjective. Given that, it's advisable to have a little bit of either perspective or empathy and not challenge people when they express an opinion that "x is bad", regardless of their connotation, their resolve, or the support they give their argument.
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May 4, 2021 15:29
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Mailer posted:I'm hear you, and I get it, but just give up. There is no logic. This is anime town. or maybe people just have different standards of bad
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May 4, 2021 15:36
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No Wave posted:He's not used with Diluc much anymore. It's too hard to ult on CD with him as the only cryo character in the comp without running Sac GS + energy recharge and gimping his damage. The only comp he's generally used in is Chongyun/Bennett/Xiangling/Xingqiu, which for whatever reason is one of the most played comps in China (and it's not just for budgetary reasons). My issue with that comp is that Diluc is better than Chongyun in it. This is just data of day 1 of patch 1.5 in CN but it's still funny to see diluc barely above 10%, people are moving on to other stuff just for sake of novelty. I'm sure he'll bounce back as the day pass. I wonder how xiao players avoid getting killed all the time, I remember playing him on a friends account and felt his plunge spam leave him extremely vulnerable, I can't imagine doing 12-2-2 with him. I assume the answer is zhongli.
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May 4, 2021 15:37
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Andrast posted:or maybe people just have different standards of bad I still use Lisa and Amber because I got them first and the less grinding I have to do the better.
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May 4, 2021 15:38
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AParadox posted:This is just data of day 1 of patch 1.5 in CN but it's still funny to see diluc barely above 10%, people are moving on to other stuff just for sake of novelty. I'm sure he'll bounce back as the day pass. The character who imo has had the biggest fall recently is Fischl, largely due to Zhong Li just being the better rando off-field character (Fischl's previously high inclusion rate was in slots that people didn't really know what to do with).
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May 4, 2021 15:40
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AParadox posted:This is just data of day 1 of patch 1.5 in CN but it's still funny to see diluc barely above 10%, people are moving on to other stuff just for sake of novelty. I'm sure he'll bounce back as the day pass. Yeah, I usually pair him with Zhongli and either Jean or Qiqi. I feel the same way with Ganyu, though. Trying to get off a charged shot with no shield in the Abyss is a pain in the rear end.
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May 4, 2021 15:48
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Very few characters are truly "bad" but there's definitely characters that are way better than others and for very definitive reasons. Keqing is limited in potential due to being Electro, and that's the elements fault.
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May 4, 2021 15:49
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The Atomic Man-Boy posted:The only good characters are the waifus, the men who look like waifus, and the kid who plays with bombs. I need Yaoyao to get released so I can build my Nezuko squad I mean, I also need to get Qiqi and Klee, but still.
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May 4, 2021 15:55
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ButterSkeleton posted:Very few characters are truly "bad" but there's definitely characters that are way better than others and for very definitive reasons. Keqing is limited in potential due to being Electro, and that's the elements fault. Yes, it's important to remember that the real villain here is Electro for being the Ringo Starr of the elements.
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May 4, 2021 16:03
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this are the most popular teams of that graph btw The only intreresting part is the xiangling chongyun team, the rest is ganyus hu taos and xiaos all the way. No Wave posted:Hu Tao and Diluc both basically require Xingqiu. So if you own both, it's one or the other and one of them is newer and stronger. Makes sense, I just expected to many more people to have diluc rather than hu tao. As for fish, she has the same problem as beidou, in the current floor 12 you can't use electro on the top floor and on the bottom floor you either go full electro and use vv to deal with the e cicin mage or do not include them at all.
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May 4, 2021 16:04
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The problem is people arguing are arguing about two separate things. One is: "Keqing is not bad, because overall she's fun and she's usable in 99 % places" The other is: "Keqing is not in Top 10 in 1 % of the game's content that many don't even care about, therefore she bad" Based on which player you are, she's bad or not bad. To me she's not bad - but I don't care about using ZL to get three extra stars in 12, or something.
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May 4, 2021 16:07
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I mean Keqing is fun and her + Xingqiu burst gets stormterror to ~20% on the first phase so the dps feels fine. That's probably more the water swords but whatever. More importantly she has cute hair and says "Cut to the chase" when you use her burst. And she does a super hero landing if you don't activate the last hit of her attack sequence.
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May 4, 2021 16:28
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Fish is still very strong its just that you have to build the comp in very specific ways which includes very specific gear. I dont see a whole lot of people opting into turbo setups because of the gearing requirements.
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May 4, 2021 16:54
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I don't think there's any specific gear needed, overload comps are just very weak with the current layout due to electro shields on 12-3-1 and enemies that you'll blow all over the place on 12-1-1, 12-1-2, 12-2-1, and 12-3-2.
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May 4, 2021 17:00
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No Wave posted:I don't think there's any specific gear needed, overload comps are just very weak with the current layout due to electro shields on 12-3-1 and enemies that you'll blow all over the place on 12-1-1, 12-1-2, 12-2-1, and 12-3-2. You aren't bringing her just for the overload damage in the reaction, you are bringing her for the energy generation. The specific gear in this case is full offense stats without any energy in them, that lets constantly pull bursts. On certain characters its pretty drat strong, but it requires perfect gear.
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May 4, 2021 17:17
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I found an HP goblet with fantastic subsets but does anyone in the world want an HP goblet instead of like element or physical boost? Atk 4.7 Def 5.1 En recharge 5.8 Cr rate 3.9
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May 4, 2021 17:18
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Fischl turbo is already in their list of bugs to be killed in future patches along with supervape, unless they got that one already
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May 4, 2021 17:24
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Cao Ni Ma posted:Fish is still very strong its just that you have to build the comp in very specific ways which includes very specific gear. I dont see a whole lot of people opting into turbo setups because of the gearing requirements. Turbo has been nerfed/patched out. Nonetheless, Fischl's other problem is that her DPS is mostly single target, and this abyss has way more enemies than before which is why Venti's usage has significantly increased this patch. With this day 1 information, we are only seeing electro for second half which I assume are to deal with the hydro mimics. RareAcumen posted:I found an HP goblet with fantastic subsets but does anyone in the world want an HP goblet instead of like element or physical boost? If you want a character to be a shield bot or whose damage scales with HP, then that goblet might be worth it. Even then, those kinds of goblets are dependent on a set bonus i.e. a late game Diona would probably have a NO 4 piece set to serve as an attack buffer and healing gets less important as you learn how to dodge and just kill the enemies before they deal damage to you. dogsicle posted:Fischl turbo is already in their list of bugs to be killed in future patches along with supervape, unless they got that one already https://genshin.mihoyo.com/en/news/detail/12376 Yes
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May 4, 2021 17:31
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Unless you were using Venti the vast majority of the bird triggered reactions would only hit one enemy. I don't think Fischl energy recharge comps are substantively worse, and it always was kind of a gag because it generates extra electro particles but you needed Fischl to trigger reactions so she had to be the only electro if you were leaning into it entirely, meaning you're generating particles that aren't useful for the rest of your units in the first place (and keep in mind that the whole concept was undermined by having a C6 Fischl anyways). Even back then the most successful overload comps tended to use Beidou which kind of throws the turbo aspect out the window in favor of an extremely powerful 4*.
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May 4, 2021 17:32
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Fishcl isn’t single target because overload isn’t single target it’s like the opposite of single target. oh abyss whgo even does that, i meant azdjdaha.
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May 4, 2021 17:34
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Albedo is pretty bad tbh.
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May 4, 2021 17:41
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No Wave posted:Unless you were using Venti the vast majority of the bird triggered reactions would only hit one enemy. I don't think Fischl energy recharge comps are substantively worse, and it always was kind of a gag because it generates extra electro particles but you needed Fischl to trigger reactions so she had to be the only electro if you were leaning into it entirely, meaning you're generating particles that aren't useful for the rest of your units in the first place (and keep in mind that the whole concept was undermined by having a C6 Fischl anyways). Even back then the most successful overload comps tended to use Beidou which kind of throws the turbo aspect out the window in favor of an extremely powerful 4*. Does beidou have some hidden mechanic like her ult can bounce on the same target several times or something like that? I've put some decent investment into her after hearing she can be good, 1700 atk 60 crt 150+ cdamage, 61 mult + serpent spine with ult talent 8 and I'm very disappointed with her single target damage. I feel like I'm missing something about her.
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May 4, 2021 17:43
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No Wave posted:He's not used with Diluc much anymore. It's too hard to ult on CD with him as the only cryo character in the comp without running Sac GS + energy recharge and gimping his damage. The only comp he's generally used in is Chongyun/Bennett/Xiangling/Xingqiu, which for whatever reason is one of the most played comps in China (and it's not just for budgetary reasons). My issue with that comp is that Diluc is better than Chongyun in it. To supplement this image,   
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May 4, 2021 17:43
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Strong disagree on Chongyun being bad. I use him as support for my Bennett carry and he's amazing. I got 36 stars on the new abyss as a F2P (no welkin, no BP) with a Bennett, Chongyun, XQ, Sucrose as my Team A.
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May 4, 2021 17:44
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AParadox posted:Does beidou have some hidden mechanic like her ult can bounce on the same target several times or something like that? I've put some decent investment into her after hearing she can be good, 1700 atk 60 crt 150+ cdamage, 61 mult + serpent spine with ult talent 8 and I'm very disappointed with her single target damage. I feel like I'm missing something about her. Her strongest role is as a support that Qs and leaves, most comparable to Xingqiu.
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May 4, 2021 17:52
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More interested in a list of teams on floor 12 on the last night of a rotation than the first. Oh wait that’s what it isssss whooo zhongli confirmed ultimate scrub tier forever.
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May 4, 2021 17:55
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does that morgana comp use 4 blizzard or 2 bliz and 2 gladiator on ganyu?
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May 4, 2021 18:01
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RareAcumen posted:I found an HP goblet with fantastic subsets but does anyone in the world want an HP goblet instead of like element or physical boost? you could see how it feels on Zhongli, but even my full support 45k zhongli uses a geo goblet kater posted:Albedo is pretty bad tbh. lol
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May 4, 2021 18:02
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RareAcumen posted:I found an HP goblet with fantastic subsets but does anyone in the world want an HP goblet instead of like element or physical boost?
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May 4, 2021 18:03
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I might not be a fan of the event domain challenges, but I sure am making the most out of its ult charge ability to finish achievements/time challenges.
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May 4, 2021 18:04
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Reiterpallasch posted:ok but keqing's a 5* damage dealer who's currently worse at her job than 4* units, including several at very modest constellations, which is as good a definition of a mechanical flop as you can get. some characters really are better than others and "no character is bad" really just seems like semantic quibbling at that point. I think part of it is that she just can't do anything to compete with the nuts damage you can get from stuff like vaporize/melt. My Keqing has stats that should be very good on paper and possibly has the best rolled artifacts of anyone I have (95% crit rate and ~150% crit damage) but a bunch of physical hits for ~3000-5000 damage still can't really compete with doing a few Hu Tao charged attacked that hit for like 30,000.
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May 4, 2021 18:07
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No Wave posted:The only comp he's generally used in is Chongyun/Bennett/Xiangling/Xingqiu, which for whatever reason is one of the most played comps in China (and it's not just for budgetary reasons). My issue with that comp is that Diluc is better than Chongyun in it.
kater posted:Albedo is pretty bad tbh. The resist debuff from Zhongli's shield makes his blossoms crit for 10k for me now. He's a p. great support for everything except bosses. Getting C1 Zhongli let me make a fun discovery, which is that stele resonance will trigger the blossoms if it hits an enemy. Setting steles on either side of his flower covers enough of the flower's AoE that I'm liable to hit some enemy with resonance, which means that juicy 10k is less likely to be wasted on the last sliver of HP on whatever I'm pummeling with melee attacks at the time. Bloody Emissary fucked around with this message at 18:11 on May 4, 2021 |
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May 4, 2021 18:09
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No Wave posted:Single target she sucks. But vs 2 targets or more her C2 increases her ult damage by 66%, as yes it can bounce from target A to target B then back to target A (and then, with C2, it would go back to target B then target A again). Yeah that what I've been doing and I have her c2, I just never seen it bounce back, I'm not sure if it's the bounce range or It's just gets lost in the sea of numbers that keqing and fish generate. I'll give her another go. Speaking of overloads. I've tried a no gear Yanfei with a fed fish + albedo supports and it felt great, I think there is a decent potential with overload yanfei teams and 1.6 reaction buffs. Also her attack chain feels so smooth compared to other catalyst users.
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May 4, 2021 18:10
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Hi, Level 90 10/10/10 Klee main here. I've never made it past 11-3 because Spiral Abyss sucks rear end with all it's anti-fun mechanics. Also don't use characters for if they're good, use them if they're cute.
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May 4, 2021 18:14
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Hexel posted:does that morgana comp use 4 blizzard or 2 bliz and 2 gladiator on ganyu? Ganyu has 4-piece. The idea is that Mona and Venti keep everything constantly frozen, and Mona's attack buff allows Ganyu to hit like she is doing reverse melt DPS while having the CC of a freeze team. So
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May 4, 2021 18:15
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i like keqing because she's my first 5* and she also has a stylish moveset and she is also a cute catgirl
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May 4, 2021 18:23
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