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i think the best solution to the WFH "issue" is to have it be something you earn as a perk. junior employees eventually ease in to it, if they decide they want to
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May 4, 2021 16:59
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This is Japan corporate culture but I had a new employee message me apologetically that he wasn't sure if I knew his wife was pregnant but that he would take the minimum time off so it didn't impact the team and be seen as taking advantage and blah blah I told him maximize the days off whenever the kid is born and if I saw him at the office at any point during company provided paternity leave I would write him up.
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May 4, 2021 17:02
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boar guy posted:i think the best solution to the WFH "issue" is to have it be something you earn as a perk. junior employees eventually ease in to it, if they decide they want to Not 100% same take but by god actually having workers in the same building for training purposes is a hell of a lot easier than wrangling Teams bullshit.
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May 4, 2021 17:55
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SkyeAuroline posted:Not 100% same take but by god actually having workers in the same building for training purposes is a hell of a lot easier than wrangling Teams bullshit. Teams loving sucks Zoom> Meet> Teams but they are all pretty bad wish orgs would just adopt Asana and Discord and be done with it
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May 4, 2021 18:00
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boar guy posted:Teams loving sucks The sad thing is we already had Slack (that works great), but nope, can't use it for anything and nobody you'd need to reach by it responds most of the time. 90% of the way to Discord already...
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May 4, 2021 18:05
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SkyeAuroline posted:The sad thing is we already had Slack (that works great), but nope, can't use it for anything and nobody you'd need to reach by it responds most of the time. 90% of the way to Discord already... agreed, slack is great
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May 4, 2021 18:09
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SkyeAuroline posted:Caveat as the sole "in-office" advocate here, WFH really does not work for everyone. I don't like in-office work but I crater fast at home and lack all of my accessibility setup and the space or finances to duplicate it. (Hell I can't even find a desk chair for home that doesn't cause me pain, and I'm already up in Steelcase/HM territory.) I'm curious now if the OP meant that WFH was the ONLY way they work, or just part of the culture there. Maybe it's because I only ever seem to work for ancient companies run by ancient people, but it's like pulling teeth trying to get ANY sort of flexibility at these places. I just started at a new place during COVID and I'm already keeping an eye out for where the exits are because I'm getting the impression that they are gonna want everyone back in the office 5 days a week, no exceptions.
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May 4, 2021 18:18
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ArbitraryC posted:They don’t raise any flags because they just offload their work onto everyone else and management usually doesn’t care if stuff gets done. If everyone did what they do eventually management does start noticing because not enough stuff is getting done, and that’s when it gets axed. lol "Employees are abusing the 4-day work week flexible working and not pulling their weight! Should we address employees not doing their work? No, the flexible working is the problem!" boar guy posted:agreed, slack is great Slack is good for office communication, but the video calls suck because you can't view people as a grid or even turn on people's names. It's that thing where you only see the person currently talking/making noise. I have a weekly call with another company and I have no way of telling who these people are. nexus6 fucked around with this message at 18:31 on May 4, 2021 |
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May 4, 2021 18:28
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Zarin posted:I'm curious now if the OP meant that WFH was the ONLY way they work, or just part of the culture there. Yup that's my MegaCorp. When stuff is back to normal I'd be surprised if one day a week remains an option for WFH. And the ancient people running the place definitely applies, as they wouldn't use WFH so why would it be offered? Same with on site childcare. It's unimaginable any MegaCorp would offer such a perk (multiple competitors in the same zip code have had it for years). Hey, why does so much of our younger talent keep leaving?
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May 4, 2021 18:48
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Barudak posted:Im probably a poo poo manager but my philosophy is "if all our goals are met/exceeded and we don't sound like we don't know what we're doing in meetings with higher ups, I do not give a single solitary poo poo if all of you go into the bathroom at the office and do black tar heroin 4 days a week until you pass out, just don't tell me about it or get caught because then I have to address that" Being a manager is odd because the ceiling for being a high performer feels unattainably high a lot of the time, but passing the bar to not be absolute poo poo is easy as hell. Just don't be a petty tyrant about dumb bullshit, admit fault occasionally, and have some patience with people and you soar above a sea of shithead managers. Being a great boss is hard, but being a mediocre one is a piece of cake.
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May 4, 2021 18:55
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nexus6 posted:lol "Employees are abusing the 4-day work week flexible working and not pulling their weight! Should we address employees not doing their work? No, the flexible working is the problem!" I'm all for flexible schedules, and firmly believe that in an office environment the 40 hour work week is a complete construct, especially in the work-from-home era. There's zero excuse for restricting people's ability to work on a flexible schedule if their main job is being in meetings or submitting something by a deadline. I think companies just don't want to lose control of their employees' lives at this point. It does remind me, though: In my old job you were considered a slacker if you didn't work 5 10 hour days. Anything beyond 40 hours was overtime and so paid time-and-a-half, but there was this weird disdain for anyone who just did five/eight or four/ten. A lot of the people who worked 50 hours during the week would show up for eight more hours on Saturday every weekend as well. You would see people put off finishing things starting Thursday because that was when supervisors came around to ask about Saturday availability, and having a ton of open assignments was a qualifier for weekend hours. People would finish things at a normal pace on Thursday but not submit, come in and do nothing at all on Friday and then on Saturday would hit "submit" on 20 projects within the first hour and just sit back for the rest of the day. I never understood the (mostly) guys who thought they were somehow winning by sitting at work for 20 extra hours a week. SkyeAuroline posted:Caveat as the sole "in-office" advocate here, WFH really does not work for everyone. I don't like in-office work but I crater fast at home and lack all of my accessibility setup and the space or finances to duplicate it. (Hell I can't even find a desk chair for home that doesn't cause me pain, and I'm already up in Steelcase/HM territory.) I totally understand the non-WFH group of people out there, the numbers are probably far higher than we like to imagine. We, thankfully, have the space for two home offices, but both my wife and I know multiple people who can't escape kids or spouses because of the WFH or school stuff during the pandemic. I'm a firm believer in the idea that a company should be providing the tools you need to do your job from an ergonomic and technological standpoint. Too many companies seem to leave it up to the employee for that sort of thing, which is just crazy to me.
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May 4, 2021 21:14
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Barudak posted:This is Japan corporate culture but I had a new employee message me apologetically that he wasn't sure if I knew his wife was pregnant but that he would take the minimum time off so it didn't impact the team and be seen as taking advantage and blah blah I told him maximize the days off whenever the kid is born and if I saw him at the office at any point during company provided paternity leave I would write him up. lmao That rules Hopefully he responded with tearful gratitude like Solomon Northrup at the end of 12 Years a Slave? Right?
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May 4, 2021 21:26
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Hired as a data analyst and I’m being asked to chip in on this project where we delve into outliers and find out why sales estimates are wrong. The total amount of jobs sold that have outliers is roughly 1/3 the total population of jobs. I don’t think these people know what outliers mean.
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May 4, 2021 21:40
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Barudak posted:This is Japan corporate culture but I had a new employee message me apologetically that he wasn't sure if I knew his wife was pregnant but that he would take the minimum time off so it didn't impact the team and be seen as taking advantage and blah blah I told him maximize the days off whenever the kid is born and if I saw him at the office at any point during company provided paternity leave I would write him up. *Wife has baby* Employee: Otsukaresama desu *immediately leaves for the office*
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May 4, 2021 22:20
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Deki posted:My workplace just sent out a notice saying they're removing the ability to compress your schedule to 4 days a week or have your work start before 7 am, and are giving us a whole week to figure out what's up. Workplaces can be surprisingly blind to what employees value. The employer I'm in the process of leaving has new top-level management, and as part of a big push to "standardise conditions with competitors" has only been offering contracts with earlier start times and fewer holidays. And sure, those were relatively generous... because the salaries surely weren't. Obviously the salaries aren't changing. So then they get all surprised at everyone leaving if they're able to. I know they're surprised, rather than this just being stealth layoffs, because they are going to be critically understaffed soon, and are sending increasingly desperate retention emails to all the people who have already signed contracts elsewhere. And... how could any of this be a surprise to anyone? Presumably they are aware that the people they employ are capable of at least basic maths?
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May 5, 2021 01:39
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Atopian posted:Workplaces can be surprisingly blind to what employees value. You’ve got to remember that these are just simple C level executives. These are people of the company. The common clay of the corporate hierarchy. You know… morons.
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May 5, 2021 02:57
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nexus6 posted:The Basecamp drama really should have its own thread and not a derail, but the way I've read it is that senior management's response to "why did you knowingly do nothing about a racist internal joke for years?" was "What? No. That's political talk. No political talk (other than politics the founder approves of). If you don't like it you can get out". Update from the Schadenfreude thread: nexus6 posted:The Basecamp implosion is pretty schaden-y
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May 5, 2021 03:51
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The only nitpick I have about that tweet is that it suggests they left with the racist apologist, when in reality they (or at least the majority) left because of how clearly awful the company leadership is.
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May 5, 2021 04:57
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Blue Moonlight posted:The only nitpick I have about that tweet is that it suggests they left with the racist apologist, when in reality they (or at least the majority) left because of how clearly awful the company leadership is. The first section of the article implies that a little bit too. I'm not sure if the author is just a bad writer, or a dickhead
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May 5, 2021 09:21
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I have to say after an all-hands meeting yesterday I am really, actually impressed with the company I work for now. After working 11 years for a company that never gave raises and 5 years for an insane, ultra-Kafkaesque bureaucratic nightmare company, I am now working somewhere sensible that seems to actually care about what the employees think. I'm having a hard time actually admitting it, like if I say something it will go away. In any case, they told use that there will be no required return to office. Unlike a lot of companies that said that a while back then went back on it, they're serious. We can work from anywhere we can get an internet connection as long as they can legally handle the tax situation. At first I was ready for a permanent return to office but now I think I"m ready to embrace working from my little home office, at least I can play Hearthstone and gently caress around on the internet here without anyone giving me poo poo about it.
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May 5, 2021 10:20
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Local Weather posted:I have to say after an all-hands meeting yesterday I am really, actually impressed with the company I work for now. After working 11 years for a company that never gave raises and 5 years for an insane, ultra-Kafkaesque bureaucratic nightmare company, I am now working somewhere sensible that seems to actually care about what the employees think. I'm having a hard time actually admitting it, like if I say something it will go away. Very jealous honestly, my current hope for my career is to find a job where I'm able to do just that so I can finally move to a cheaper city while still getting the same amount of money.
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May 5, 2021 10:59
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Local Weather posted:I have to say after an all-hands meeting yesterday I am really, actually impressed with the company I work for now. After working 11 years for a company that never gave raises and 5 years for an insane, ultra-Kafkaesque bureaucratic nightmare company, I am now working somewhere sensible that seems to actually care about what the employees think. I'm having a hard time actually admitting it, like if I say something it will go away. Congratulations! Maybe in two years I'll have to look you up and ask you where that is lol
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May 5, 2021 14:06
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Dealing with WFH my work obviously had issues with specific people not doing their work. Did they handle this by focusing on those specific people, either firing, reprimanding, or implementing some form of accountability for the specific people who weren't pulling their weight? Hell no. Their solution? Everyone has to message the supervisor on Teams when they 'log in', when they go to lunch, when they get back from lunch, and then send an email at the end of the day saying what they did today. THERE WE FIXED IT. I will never understand how many "solutions" are simultaneously way more work for the supervisor, completely ineffective, AND kindergarten-level collective punishment. I also don't understand -- if you can't tell the difference by what I'm actually producing (or not) if I'm actually sitting at my WFH desk at 8AM until 4:30PM every day -- why does it actually matter if I'm sitting there 8 hours a day during the designated hours? If I appear to be producing the same amount of work as always, the amount you were happy to pay me for in the Before Times, why do you care if it takes me 2 hours or 12, or if I do it at 4AM or 8PM? Imagined fucked around with this message at 15:28 on May 5, 2021 |
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May 5, 2021 15:24
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Imagined posted:I will never understand how many "solutions" are simultaneously way more work for the supervisor, completely ineffective, AND kindergarten-level collective punishment. Lol when a coworker got caught playing games on his work computer our manager made him move his desk to be in her cubicle so she could keep an eye on him, like a kid having to sit next to teacher during storytime because he won't stop squirming. The dude was in his mid-60s.
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May 5, 2021 15:38
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Imagined posted:I will never understand how many "solutions" are simultaneously way more work for the supervisor, completely ineffective, AND kindergarten-level collective punishment. It matters so they can have control. It doesn't matter if the control actually does anything as long as they have it and you don't. Ineffective kindergarten-level punishment is enough to make that happen. We have the same issue.
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May 5, 2021 15:38
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Big corporations are so stupid. There is basically zero work in my group right now and yet we have three open requisitions to bring in new senior staff... so we will have more people spreading out practically zero work, and two or three people who probably deserve a promotion aren’t getting it lol
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May 5, 2021 16:17
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Hey, can you get these 80 items with only vague descriptions and no details costed from CHINA over night?
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May 5, 2021 16:43
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kntfkr posted:Hey, can you get these 80 items with only vague descriptions and no details costed from CHINA over night? yes sir who cares if they're good or even right, job number one is to be liked by your boss
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May 5, 2021 16:47
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Gin_Rummy posted:Big corporations are so stupid. There is basically zero work in my group right now and yet we have three open requisitions to bring in new senior staff... so we will have more people spreading out practically zero work, and two or three people who probably deserve a promotion aren’t getting it lol Dang, we're the opposite. Hey, this load bearing team is critically understaffed and one person works late each day and hasn't taken a day off in two years is burned out. Shouldn't more staff be hired, or at least hired replacements for those who left? Management: no Hey the podcast/newsletter team with nearly 20 people that has to bribe employees with gift cards to read their emails wants more folks. Management: whatever they need, they are our heroes
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May 5, 2021 17:07
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Maybe if that one guy listened to the podcast and read the newsletter he'd be inspired to work harder. 
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May 5, 2021 17:50
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(Two weeks ago) Boss: I want you to implement changes to the way you do this thing, either do it as A or do it as B. I go ahead and implement option B. (Today) Boss: How is it going implementing the thing? Me: Good, I've implemented option B across the board. Boss: I wanted you to do option A. Me: I thought you said option A or B. Boss: I don't think B is enough, I think it needs to be A. Me: Ok if you want A I'll implement that instead. Boss: Well it's not about what I want, I would like you to poll the team and see if that's what they want. You need to look at what are the outcomes of doing B and if that's sufficient or if we need option A. Me: Ok just to be clear, do you want me to go to the team and ask their opinion, or stick with B for now and evaluate how it's working, or just switch to A now? Boss: I want you to do A.
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May 5, 2021 18:00
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McGavin posted:Maybe if that one guy listened to the podcast and read the newsletter he'd be inspired to work harder. Hahaha it's not me but the person I mentioned has been forced to listen to the podcast during a meeting as their listener count was too low. So they played it during a meeting to boost the count... by one. 
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May 5, 2021 18:10
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ClothHat posted:(Two weeks ago) I got a not-boss like that. I ignore him and do whatever b/c he doesn't review me and isn't included in leadership development reviews b/c he was terrible as a leader.
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May 5, 2021 18:22
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Two jobs ago I was so checked out that I used outlook to simply block dumb people I didn't like in the company from emailing me and wasting time.
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May 5, 2021 18:27
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ClothHat posted:(Two weeks ago) Murder should be legal sometimes
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May 5, 2021 18:31
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ClothHat posted:(Two weeks ago) I think you're working for my wife. We constantly have this conversation:
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May 5, 2021 18:34
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Also options A and B were about having more frequent meetings with my staff and giving more documented feedback to them. Every meeting I have with my people is already extensively documented and I share it with the staff with To Do items marked in bold to help them keep track of things. All of these meetings with my boss where I'm told something only to be informed I was told something completely different weeks later are done over zoom and entirely undocumented of course.
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May 5, 2021 18:51
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ClothHat posted:(Two weeks ago) Sometimes violence is the answer. Managers need to wear body cams.
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May 5, 2021 18:52
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I have started forcing clients to talk to a project manager to schedule a meeting if they want to talk to me. I am doing this because I used to just call them and they abused that privilege. So now everyone must suffer. These constant asinine meetings have improved my productivity because now I have an excuse to ignore Skype for 7 hours a day.
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May 5, 2021 19:33
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ClothHat posted:Also options A and B were about having more frequent meetings with my staff and giving more documented feedback to them. Every meeting I have with my people is already extensively documented and I share it with the staff with To Do items marked in bold to help them keep track of things. All of these meetings with my boss where I'm told something only to be informed I was told something completely different weeks later are done over zoom and entirely undocumented of course. Yeah, that's probably intentional. I used to work on a project that required co-operation with a guy in a different company who managed the client's Salesforce instance. He'd never give you direct access to make the changes you want yourself, never responded to emails and outright hated any kind of ticketing system. If you wanted him to do something you had to do it over a call and he'd usually do it right away, but he was always sure to make there was no paper trail. This was because we'd often need him to do the same things over and over (why he didn't have an automated task is beyond me) but since he made sure there was no pile of tickets or email requests you couldn't easily bitch about him to the client
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May 5, 2021 20:50
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