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Sagebrush posted:it is difficult for me to imagine two things i care less about than fortnite and ios it's annoying that this case has the potential to be really important but it's between two extremely hateable parties, kind of like oracle v google
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May 5, 2021 23:07
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qirex posted:it's annoying that this case has the potential to be really important but it's between two extremely hateable parties, kind of like oracle v google yeah as annoying as they are, epic really needs to win
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May 5, 2021 23:37
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If Apple were forced to make a switch in IOS that opens up 3rd party, it'll be a like a ""if you flick this switch, you are dead to us. use your phone how you see fit but dont come crying to us when someone steals your bitcoins"
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May 6, 2021 01:34
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echinopsis posted:If Apple were forced to make a switch in IOS that opens up 3rd party, it'll be a like a ""if you flick this switch, you are dead to us. use your phone how you see fit but dont come crying to us when someone steals your bitcoins" yeah, it'd be fun to see stuff like apple pay, find my, icloud keychain, hell, icloud anything gets grayed out upon checking the box lol
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May 6, 2021 02:13
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apple already has a strong signing and entitlement system, they’ll just make it so non-app-store apps can’t do any of those things
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May 6, 2021 02:21
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remember that thing where google had an “open” os and you could sideload apps and even your own App Store? that ushered in a great app utopia. oh wait, google tied all of their useful frameworks into google play services, which you can only use if you’re distributing via the google play store, and all of the other app stores never went anywhere. but I’m sure Apple won’t do that.
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May 6, 2021 02:35
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if android did not exist, it would be necessary for apple to invent it
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May 6, 2021 02:37
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The Management posted:remember that thing where google had an “open” os and you could sideload apps and even your own App Store? that ushered in a great app utopia. You can install third party app stores but you have to do it through the wallet UI.
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May 6, 2021 03:01
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i agree with epic in principle but in practice ios is good and android is terrible and i don’t want ios to get hosed up
git apologist fucked around with this message at 10:19 on May 6, 2021 |
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May 6, 2021 08:03
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are any of epic's arguments based on some sort of monopoly definition for Apple?
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May 6, 2021 10:09
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compromise position: apple still get to demand 30%, but epic can pay them in monopoly money
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May 6, 2021 12:19
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Gentle Autist posted:i agree with epic in principle but in practice ios is good and android is terrible and i don’t want ios to get hosed up this sums up a lot of how i feel also how is epic making so much fortnite money and supposedly unprofitable
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May 6, 2021 12:21
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infernal machines posted:if android did not exist, it would be necessary for apple to invent it just one step removed from creating a guy to get mad at
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May 6, 2021 12:26
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Gentle Autist posted:i agree with epic in principle but in practice ios is good and android is terrible and i don’t want ios to get hosed up yeah, that much is certainly true. but i think the logical conclusion for yospos at least is to vary between going "lol" and pounding the table screaming "FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!" not like we have any impact on the outcome anyway.
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May 6, 2021 12:50
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mediaphage posted:this sums up a lot of how i feel setting money on fire to try and break the steam stranglehold on PC gaming, etc.
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May 6, 2021 12:51
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refleks posted:are any of epic's arguments based on some sort of monopoly definition for Apple? the core argument is over what counts as "the market" epic's argument is that the market is iOS, where apple holds a monopoly and the court should break it up apple's argument is that the market is video games, where apple is a minor player at best and the court doesn't need to do anything because customers can play fortnite on lots of other consoles and PCs so how much are the interests of customers hurt by being unable to play fortnite on ios specifically without apple's permission?
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May 6, 2021 13:49
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haveblue posted:the core argument is over what counts as "the market" nothing of value is lost - court finds the defendant innocent. what if you moved this to a supermarket... can spaghettio's sue Albertson if they wont stock them?
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May 6, 2021 14:07
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if anything apple is doing people a favor by stopping them playing an fps on their phones
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May 6, 2021 14:09
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carry on then posted:yeah as annoying as they are, epic really needs to win  no gently caress epic please keep ios sandboxed and don't turn it into android.
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May 6, 2021 14:25
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Mr. Nice! posted:
louis rossman also needs to win the right to repair campaign basically every apple hater is completely right
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May 6, 2021 14:28
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carry on then posted:basically every apple hater is completely right 
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May 6, 2021 14:32
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haveblue posted:the core argument is over what counts as "the market" part of apple’s argument is also that the consoles work under similar terms, you need to use their payment system and they get a 30% cut, so why does epic have an issue with that on ios but not on the switch? no doubt microsoft, sony, and nintendo are watching this thing closely as well since it could affect their platforms as well
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May 6, 2021 14:53
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msft already announced a cut to 12% for games on the 'box store.
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May 6, 2021 15:07
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refleks posted:msft already announced a cut to 12% for games on the 'box store. only on pc afaik. but yeah, there may be things afoot in a lot of places.
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May 6, 2021 15:12
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refleks posted:msft already announced a cut to 12% for games on the 'box store. because their stores are losing badly on consoles and pc compared to Sony
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May 6, 2021 15:34
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also because they want everyone to put their games on their subscription service
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May 6, 2021 15:38
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weast posted:looked it up and found this, lol yeah its almost like the nature of apple's store monopoly discourages platform improvements and the lack of choice for developers is the entire point of this case.
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May 6, 2021 15:38
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refleks posted:nothing of value is lost - court finds the defendant innocent. this would be more like spaghetti-os demanding to set up their own booth inside the albertson and keep all the money, and albertson arguing that if customers want spaghetti-os they can just go outside and pick up the cans that grow naturally on the ground and this analogy kinda got away from me
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May 6, 2021 15:39
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ok but does the store have spagetti-os or do I have to go to the other store because the kids are already crying
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May 6, 2021 15:43
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haveblue posted:this would be more like spaghetti-os demanding to set up their own booth inside the albertson and keep all the money isn't this how sears worked for awhile?
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May 6, 2021 15:48
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Shaggar posted:yeah its almost like the nature of apple's store monopoly discourages platform improvements and the lack of choice for developers is the entire point of this case. When facebook can force people to get the facebook app on the Facebook App Store and undo all of Apple's work to protect my privacy, that will definitely be better for me as a consumer.
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May 6, 2021 15:57
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or, you know, apple retains the reviewing role and charges something reasonable for that service, but once the app is signed does not get to bundle that up with hosting, card processing, and advertising. or perhaps, most likely, some third alternative that is stupider and funnier than either of these two.
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May 6, 2021 16:09
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Shaggar posted:yeah its almost like the nature of apple's store monopoly discourages platform improvements and the lack of choice for developers is the entire point of this case. Wtf is this point? How does requiring their lovely fps dont eat up memory means apple is discouraging platform improvement... developers have plenty of choices, they can just choose to not use the app store.
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May 6, 2021 16:14
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toiletbrush posted:yeah I can't wait for apple to lose this case so I have to sign up to a bunch of inevitably subscription-based app stores that have no functional curation or privacy protection in place to get everything I can currently get in one place that at least tries to uphold some sort of standard.
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May 6, 2021 16:16
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Mad Wack posted:isn't this how sears worked for awhile? i don't think so. sears turned each of its individual internal departments into separate "businesses" that had to charge money for their services and spend money for those of others, so each individual in-store department had to barter and negotiate for floor space with the others best buy started allowing device companies to design and staff areas of the sales floor with their own employees although i have no idea how the revenue sharing works for a sold iphone from the apple section, for example.
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May 6, 2021 16:24
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butt dickus posted:yeah this is exactly what happened on android and you can no longer install facebook from the official store
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May 6, 2021 16:28
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toiletbrush posted:yeah I can't wait for apple to lose this case so I have to sign up to a bunch of inevitably subscription-based app stores that have no functional curation or privacy protection in place to get everything I can currently get in one place that at least tries to uphold some sort of standard. the app store is incredibly stagnant and hasnt had any significant app in years. the games are already all flash-level iap trash, the only difference between now and what epic is proposing is epic wants to get all the iap revenue instead of splitting it. any hypothetical facebook app store that facebook users choose to use would still have to deal with the privacy features built in to ios. the only things that would be replaced with a 3rd party app store is payments and distribution. refleks posted:Wtf is this point? How does requiring their lovely fps dont eat up memory means apple is discouraging platform improvement...\ the point is apple is claiming the app store provides critical benefits that help developers, and epic is pointing out all the failings of the app store. apple's decision to have poor memory management so they can keep their 1st party service revenue generators running is a detriment to developers and to users. quote:developers have plenty of choices, they can just choose to not use the app store. what are you talking about? they absolutely cant choose to not use the app store. thats the whole point of this.
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May 6, 2021 16:30
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refleks posted:Wtf is this point? How does requiring their lovely fps dont eat up memory means apple is discouraging platform improvement... 'get better at coding' offends me, a developer that keeps adding dances I've lifted wholesale for pure profit and further- it's kinda funny that they're complaining about memory profiles when they've had to add scaled back modes for other consoles and old pcs because the game ran poorly
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May 6, 2021 16:32
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i really wonder if these "memory constraint" issues are due to games like fartnite or pubg mobile downloading thousands of mbs of in-game content updates each time you launch them.
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May 6, 2021 16:35
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the memory thing is that a certain class of graphics allocation which is process-specific but actually held out of process was not being counted against the process memory limit because of an oversight. having an alternative app store would not have prevented them from having to fix their app’s memory use to stay under budget when the budget calculation was fixed. and epic is well aware of that; the only thing they care about is not paying apple a cut
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May 6, 2021 16:54
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