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shame on an IGA posted:Order a box of these and never look back. After a fruitless attempt to find these at the local wiring supply stores, I ordered them from Amazon. They're not going to arrive for a few days and I have free time not taken up by other house-prep tasks before then. Elviscat posted:Orange nuts work well for capping single wires, only thing they're good for IMO. Alright, will do.
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Apr 28, 2021 22:17
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Sorry for the double post but this is already going to be long due to images. I have multiple concerns about making this situation safe! One concern I think already figured out, I believe this is a switch loop: The lamp wiring is spliced directly into the box which I guess is OK? That box is a lot more secure than I anticipated based on the movement of the lamp. The real problem is that the lamp is held in via that screw-in bar, which was attached by a single screw to the box  I don't think the ground is screwed into the box. That's bad, right? The hot and neutral are spliced together here:  One of the red wire caps popped off entirely in the process of pulling the wire out of the box. Very secure. On impulse I bought a combo pack of black/white/red 3m vinyl tape before I did this and I'm glad I did. I'm not sure that hot and neutral matter on a light fixture, but it seemed wise to make sure I marked which was which:  So...uh...one of the reasons I wanted to take care of this is that my girlfriend had been trying to adjust a mirror that was mounted awkwardly behind the light fixture previously, and in the process she bumped one of the fixtures and said that it "sparked" so we turned it all off prior to doing this stuff anyway. I took apart the fixture and got the light socket out that was guilty of sparking:  The socket was just sort of floating around in the little brass fixture thing. I assume it was supposed to be secured to that outcropping in some fashion? I think in getting wiggled around there must have been an arc or something. So at a minimum, I think I want to re-splice all those connections inside of the box given the state of the wire nut that popped right off. Should I use a wire nut on those grounds and and secure it with a screw to the box? Finally, is there any way to make this lamp safe (starting with replacing that burnt socket + wire)? My girlfriend really likes it, so if there's a reasonable way to do it I'm up for a little bit of DIY, but if it's a fire waiting to happen I'll just tell her she can spend $500 replacing it if she wants. If I'm going to put the fixture back in, I also presumably need to make sure that bar the thing screwed into is secured at two points into the box rather than one point. Anything else I should be aware of? Danhenge fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Apr 29, 2021 |
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Apr 29, 2021 00:56
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Are all of these photos of the same fixture? I don't understand why there are two pairs of wires coming out of that fixture into the box. Regarding the second group of photos of the sparky bulb socket: The bulb socket absolutely needs to be replaced, as well as at least the last few inches of lamp cord leading to it but preferably all of the cable. It has quite evidently been overheating for some time aside from the one off short when it was bumped. Some pieces of that fixture appear to be missing, there should be more threaded rod that connects to the middle of the socket. The socket should be a <$5 fix, I'd try to find one that has a pigtail of wire coming off it instead of screw terminals, with also a way to secure it to the rest of the lamp most likely by that threaded tab near the bottom of the lamp. E: something along these lines https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-Weatherproof-Socket-Black-R60-00055-000/100356874 But yeah p much all the electrical guts of any lamp have been the same ~$6 of wire and socket for 130 years, the rest is just jewelry wrapped around it. shame on an IGA fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Apr 29, 2021 |
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Apr 29, 2021 01:51
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Each socket has its own pair of lamp wire which goes out to the socket at this t-junction of the rods: The two hots and two neutrals were twisted together and then twisted around the hot and neutral in the junction box and then wire nutted. The wire nut connecting the two hots in the fixture to the hot in the wall is the one that popped off. edit: Something more like this maybe. I think the extra screw hole in the bottom of this and the thing below (similar to the extra hole in the hosed socket) were supposed to be secured together. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-660-Watt-Keyless-Porcelain-Lamp-Holder-8875/202077693 edit2: I'm kind of at a loss as to how to secure it given the angles. I assume I shouldn't put it so the screwhead is sitting at the bottom of the socket. Danhenge fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Apr 29, 2021 |
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Apr 29, 2021 01:55
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You're on the right path then. My suggestions would be: - replace the other socket and all internal fixture wire while you've got it apart - extensively tape any screw terminals in the new socket - secure the ground wire in the box to the ground screw on the box - bring a pigtail off the grounds in the box and secure it directly to the fixture, I would use an extra strand of the new lamp cord and clamp it under this nut: 
shame on an IGA fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Apr 29, 2021 |
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Apr 29, 2021 02:09
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Other socket was in bad shape too, so you were right about needing to replace it. What would cause this?
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Apr 29, 2021 02:49
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Incandescent light bulbs are 60W space heaters, they fry cheap lamp wiring like that eventually. If you use LED bulbs going forward that shouldn't recur. You can get all the parts you need to repair that at your local HW store, great suggestion on how to ground it by SOAIGA. Neutral and hot definitely matter, you do not want the shell of the lamp holder to be hot, that's a significant shock risk, btw when you rewire it, there's ridges on one conductor and not the other, that'll let you keep track of polarity while wiring it up. That switch leg is fine, that was a common practice back in the day, I'd take the time and re-identify the supply to the switch (white wire that is not a neutral) using black or red tape as you prefer. Whoever cut that hole for the box is an rear end in a top hat, and it's dangerous and not up to code to have them recessed in the ceiling like that, I'd either replace it with an octagon box like this (if you have room) or pick up and extension ring like this to bring it at least somewhat flush with the drywall, then I'd smash some spackle in that hole so it's tight to the box and not a fire hazard anymore, don't gotta make it pretty if it's hidden by the light fixture.
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Apr 29, 2021 03:23
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It's actually horizontal in a wall, not in the ceiling if that makes any difference. It also might be a hell of a thing to get out because I'm pretty sure they nailed it in.
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Apr 29, 2021 03:36
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Also don't get a lamp socket like the one you posted, or the one SOAIGA posted, the former has no way to securely attach it to the fixture, and the one you posted, that's not a screw hole, that's a rivet attaching the screwshell on the lamp holder to the body, using it as a screwhole is a shock hazard, it would bond the neutral to the fixture shell. Instead get a socket like this one you can remove the screw for that little clip, and have a properly shrouded screw hole. Or if you're feeling adventurous, it looks like those shades screw on with a 1/8" threaded nipple, you could get longer nipples and a lamp holder like this one and screw it all together. Your local HW store should have a whole section of lamp parts, you can take that fixture down there and have some fun screwing stuff together to see what works. Double posting because Awful App ate this whole fuckin' post as an edit. E: Danhenge posted:It's actually horizontal in a wall, not in the ceiling if that makes any difference. It also might be a hell of a thing to get out because I'm pretty sure they nailed it in. It really doesn't, see if you can get one of those box extensions, if not it's not that hard to remove nails, get yourself a cat's paw or a pair of end cutting pliers to make nail removal easy. Or drill the heads off. Elviscat fucked around with this message at 04:01 on Apr 29, 2021 |
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Apr 29, 2021 03:56
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Thanks! It's a little bit unclear to me how much unscrews, doesn't unscrew, and is merely stuck. I don't want to torque the tiny metal shades too much because they're a little thin and might break, but i think I can get this worked out! Edit: I'm thinking maybe the box was recessed in part so that mounting bar which the thing screwed into would fit, I think it might be too big to fit under the base of the fixture. Hopefully I can find something reasonable to replace it. Danhenge fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Apr 29, 2021 |
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Apr 29, 2021 04:00
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Elviscat posted:Incandescent light bulbs are 60W space heaters, they fry cheap lamp wiring like that eventually. If you use LED bulbs going forward that shouldn't recur. Or someone at one time said "I want it brighter in here!" and jammed a 100w incandescent into a listed 60w housing.
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Apr 29, 2021 04:48
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It's listed as 600 watt/250 volt but presumably 18 gauge wire doesn't appreciate it when you try and pull a whole amp through it.
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Apr 29, 2021 05:14
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That's something that happens, but even with the listed 60W fixtures the manufacturing and testing standards are obviously woefully inadequate, the worst offenders are those boob lights you see on sale all the time at HD and have been the generic "cheap overhead room light" for decades, they fry their own wires, and usually the romex too, 100% of the time, those bulbs get up to 200F, which is in excess of the wire's 90C rating, and they just cook away. Every one of those POSs I've removed, that's over a few years old, has crumbling wire insulation and usually discolored paint behind it. OP's fixture is more open, but that cheapass bulk lamp cord is a vinyl insulation that's only rated to 60C, which is just gonna get cooked to death by the heat from a normal bulb.
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Apr 29, 2021 05:24
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Danhenge posted:It's listed as 600 watt/250 volt but presumably 18 gauge wire doesn't appreciate it when you try and pull a whole amp through it. That's the lampholder rating, if you want to use a 600W edison base lampholder for an easy bake oven or something you're going to have to use a high temperature silicone rubber and fiberglass insulated wire, not lamp cord. Basically that's a vintage light fixture that someone's (badly) rewired, the individual components are UL listed, but the fixture as a whole is not. If that was something someone got.at HD in a box, there'd be a sticker on it saying "2X60W MAX" or something equivalent, with the individual components maybe or maybe not individually rated/listed.
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Apr 29, 2021 05:30
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I assume I'm ok to use regular lamp cord since I don't want to put anything but good-quality LEDs in it?
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Apr 29, 2021 14:24
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Yeah, it'll be fine with LEDs.
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Apr 29, 2021 19:47
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I ended up grabbing a couple of these because I was at lowes: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Portfolio-60-Watt-White-Lamp-Socket/3659794 They're pretty similar to the one you linked, including the shroud. Except that when I screwed a lightbulb in, the bulb's threads don't go all the way into the socket so part of the metal base is exposed. Is that going to be a problem? Once the glass pieces are going to be back on it'd be a hell of a reach to get anything up in there while the lamp is on but it worries me mildly.
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May 2, 2021 04:28
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The part that's exposed won't be dangerous by design, unless someone wired something wrong, which is unlikely.
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May 2, 2021 04:33
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The screw threads shouldn't be live, I wouldn't worry about it, if you're really concerned you could wrap a strip of tape around the base.
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May 2, 2021 04:34
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Ok great. I'll post some pictures of the wiring part later just to be sure, but I looped the wire in the screws so it should have tightened down when I screwed it in, smooth side to brass, ribbed to silver. Then I used my multimeter to check continuity on the other end of the wire to the hot and neutral parts of the socket.
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May 2, 2021 05:02
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Danhenge posted:Ok great. I'll post some pictures of the wiring part later just to be sure, but I looped the wire in the screws so it should have tightened down when I screwed it in, smooth side to brass, ribbed to silver. Then I used my multimeter to check continuity on the other end of the wire to the hot and neutral parts of the socket. Okay, here's the socket, like I said smooth was matched to brass and ribbed to silver, and I checked for continuity afterwards:  Then I taped over the wires/screws and then taped the washer that had come into the kit on top to help keep the two wire enclosures separate:  As far as the box was concerned, I ended up installing a new box. After a lot of fuckery I enlarged the hole too much and got the old box out. I actually had already had a cat's paw for a different project on the house that I didn't end up using it for. Not nicking the wires while trying to get the pry bit under the nails was a pain, but I did it. Then I installed this deep rear end box:  It's only a tiny bit off off square, the angle of the photo is weird. I screwed the ground into the box, then joined them with a wago. I made sure they went to the end of their socket and then gave each wire a good strong pull to make sure they were seated. I marked the neutral going to the light switch on the right with black tape. I also taped up the hot wire coming out of the left wall. Unfortunately, I nicked the insulation in a couple of spots getting it out of the old box and into the new one. There's basically no play in the left wire, so I don't have a lot left to work with. Is this going to be ok? That's like the good 3M stuff. For this connection I made sure that there was no exposed wire outside the wagos, that they hit the end of the box, then once again gave them a good strong pull to ensure a solid connection. Here's the box with everything in the wall:  Anything horrifying I'm missing? Oh and those NM wires are clamp reasonably tight, they don't wiggle now but I avoided biting into the sheathing. Danhenge fucked around with this message at 19:47 on May 3, 2021 |
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May 3, 2021 19:44
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For those connections to the lampholder, there's not quite enough wire under there, the best way to get stranded wire under a screw is twist it hard anti-clockwise, then you want enough under the screw to wrap around it and meet the wire at the other end, a loop. If I were doing this I'd use a dedicated ground wire, and a green grounding screw for the ground, but it's probably good enough the way you have it. A bit of electrical tape is fine for covering up nicks, heat shrink or liquid tape is a little better. You might want to get a little thing of spackle to go around that box. Overall though it looks much better! Were you able to get that socket screwed into the fixture?
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May 3, 2021 20:20
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Should I take lamp apart and rewire? I got ambitious and put it back together. The fishing was pretty involved. Shrouded screw in the lamp:  Girlfriend shined the brass: 
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May 3, 2021 20:35
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Nah, it'll probably be fine carrying a few watts for an LED, that's a nice looking light, looks like thos sockets fit up great too.
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May 3, 2021 21:16
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Elviscat posted:Nah, it'll probably be fine carrying a few watts for an LED, that's a nice looking light, looks like thos sockets fit up great too. Yeah, my girlfriend was very pleased & excited to learn that I was taking on the rewiring of the lamp. She already really liked it, even more so after the cleaning. I know that she's very happy and thankful to be able to save this fixture, so thanks from both us for your help & mimesweeper's.
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May 3, 2021 22:49
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Anyone seen this thing? https://www.tingfire.com/how-ting-works/ It looks like some insurance company (not mine) has started giving them to customers. I can't tell if it's a "slick marketing but barely actually does anything useful" or "actually pretty sweet" kind of product. (Personal context: my beloved 125-year old house contains a mish-mosh of romex, cloth, and bx and I'm trying to figure out how bad the latter two really are / how much proactive rewiring to do. I'm not keen on tearing down all the plaster walls so everything new would be a fish job... I'm likely to have some older wiring for quite a while. ) admiraldennis fucked around with this message at 22:57 on May 5, 2021 |
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May 5, 2021 22:52
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Sockser posted:Another circuit is the outlet for my washing machine. That's it. Nothing else. gently caress you. Lol. It's reasonable as others have described but I can relate. I have a dedicated 15A for my bathroom vanity light.  Not the overhead lights and fan (that's on a circuit with half of the other overhead lights in the house), not the GFCI plug on a combo panel with said vanity light switch (that's got its own 15A), just the vanity light with its LED bulbs and 15W draw. Much like your washing machine outlet, it's actually pretty sane in a world where one might have had non-LED vanity lighting and also wanted to run a hairdryer on the GFCI. But, then, we have things like this: #18 (15a) Master Bedroom - all three outlets Office - outlet on Bedroom side Pantry - outlet on Kitchen side, not window Lights: Top of Basement Stairs Kitchen Pantry 2nd Floor Bathroom Ceiling + Fan All 3rd Floor Ceiling Lights (3x bedrooms, hall, master closet) 3rd Floor Storage Lights (#12 (15a) 2nd Floor Bath - Vanity Light!) If it weren't for LEDs, that #18 would not be cutting it at all especially considering my use of window A/Cs. My main workstation PC is on it too! I used to have to remember to turn off the A/C in my bedroom before using the toaster oven in the pantry, until I found a new spot for the toaster oven. I have another circuit with a similar multi-room load. Both are delicate balances to keep under 15A in the summer. admiraldennis fucked around with this message at 23:25 on May 5, 2021 |
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May 5, 2021 23:16
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admiraldennis posted:Anyone seen this thing? Interesting. It's basically the guts of a CAFCI breaker, in a plugin unit, connected to the cloud. All for the low, low price of $350 + some outrageous monthly monitoring fee. On one hand, you could actually pick up tons of useful data by having a single channel oscilloscope constantly connected to your house circuits, assuming you had software that could accurately analyze for patterns. On the other hand, this device doesn't catch both legs from the transformer, and isn't installed at the service entry. CAFCI breakers also have the advantage of being between the load, so they can be more accurate in detecting issues. I'm thinking the main 'value' here is a constant, recording voltmeter.
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May 6, 2021 13:59
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I have some big drum fans in my shop that only have two speeds-very fast and very loud and pretty fast and pretty loud. I don’t really need them going full blast all the time-can I put them on a dimmer or rheostat or something? I’m thinking I’d make a box at the end of an extension cord with a dimmer or rheostat or whatever in it if that won’t melt the fan or catch on fire or whatever? Or if there’s a better/safer way to do this please advise! Nameplate:  Pretty sure it is this guy: https://m.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200660305_200660305
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May 6, 2021 20:07
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Definitely not a dimmer, at 9/10hp that's probably an induction motor, not a shaded pole, that does not like having voltage dropped to it, a rheostat or like 1500W speed controller might work? Plus the instruction manual says this.  I'd just deal with it being loud, or get a smaller fan for when less ventilation is required.
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May 6, 2021 21:05
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Hello again thread, I'm back for another sanity check. Last year, I successfully added one each 120 and 220 circuits to power a home brewery. Works great. This year, I want to add https://www.supplyhouse.com/Mr-Cool...it-Package-115V to my garage to make it suck less as a project space, since I'm now using the unfinished portion of the basement to brew beer. My understanding is that it's 115v at 20amps, and the distance from the circuit breaker is right around 79 feet (10 up, 59 across, 10 down), which leads me to the below image from Southwire's calculator. Before I go buy wire and the appropriate 20amp breaker, does this pass my sanity check? The outlets in the garage are on a 15amp breaker, and appear to be shared with the exterior outlets and the outlet below the breaker panel. I assume the mini split should have a new circuit since it's HVAC? If it should have a 20 amp circuit, can I add additional outlets to plug in tools, or should it stay dedicated only? 
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May 7, 2021 20:32
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Alarbus posted:The outlets in the garage are on a 15amp breaker, and appear to be shared with the exterior outlets and the outlet below the breaker panel. I assume the mini split should have a new circuit since it's HVAC? If it should have a 20 amp circuit, can I add additional outlets to plug in tools, or should it stay dedicated only? Yes, own circuit, and 10ga would be fine. Better to run a large cable now, then have to re-pull if you decide to upgrade the mini split later. Speaking of... it really sounds like you should run a sub panel in the garage. Pull some 6-3 NM and pop it on a 50A breaker. Then you have plenty of power for your minisplit and any additional stuff you want to add to the garage. Wire is expensive right now, but you might as well pay a bit more to do something you won't have to redo. What is the conduit for?
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May 7, 2021 21:27
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B-Nasty posted:Yes, own circuit, and 10ga would be fine. Better to run a large cable now, then have to re-pull if you decide to upgrade the mini split later. I didn't notice it was on conduit, it's an interior run through drop ceiling, unfinished space, up a wall, and through the garage attic. So the suggestion is to run the 80' of 6-3 to a sub panel in the garage, which would be wired to a 50amp breaker in the main panel, right? (Based on where this would go, it would shave off 10-12 feet of the run.) This would then have sub breakers for mini split, tools, etc. Mini split would have it's own 20 run off of 12awg I'm assuming? Then two 15s for tools or whatever? Or one 20amp tool circuit would really be all I'd need. Alarbus fucked around with this message at 21:45 on May 7, 2021 |
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May 7, 2021 21:40
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Alarbus posted:115v at 20amps, and the distance from the circuit breaker is right around 79 feet (10 up, 59 across, 10 down), which leads me to the below image from Southwire's calculator. Before I go buy wire and the appropriate 20amp breaker, does this pass my sanity check? The unit will pull less than 15a (20a is the max over-current protection), so #12 wire will be more than large enough. Def should be on it's own circuit. Running a sub-panel for future additions is a good idea if that's what you want to do.
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May 7, 2021 21:46
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Alarbus posted:So the suggestion is to run the 80' of 6-3 to a sub panel in the garage, which would be wired to a 50amp breaker in the main panel, right? (Based on where this would go, it would shave off 10-12 feet of the run.) This would then have sub breakers for mini split, tools, etc. Mini split would have it's own 20 run off of 12awg I'm assuming? Then two 15s for tools or whatever? Or one 20amp tool circuit would really be all I'd need. That's the gist of it. You'd also be bringing 240v to the garage, would would allow you to do at least a 240v 30A fast charger for a future electric vehicle, if you wanted. Your power needs in the garage sounds minimal, but 6ga is still what I'd pull, and having a decent sized sub panel will probably be more useful than you think.
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May 7, 2021 21:59
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B-Nasty posted:That's the gist of it. You'd also be bringing 240v to the garage, would would allow you to do at least a 240v 30A fast charger for a future electric vehicle, if you wanted. Gotcha. Something like https://www.lowes.com/pd/Square-D-1...e-Pack/50311175 in the garage? Is there a better option for a sub panel? I'm not really price conscious on this other than it's done right in terms of gauge and quality. ie I don't want to cut corners, but if the wire is $500 I don't think I need a $500 sub panel.
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May 7, 2021 22:01
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Alarbus posted:Gotcha. Something like https://www.lowes.com/pd/Square-D-1...e-Pack/50311175 in the garage? Is there a better option for a sub panel? I'm not really price conscious on this other than it's done right in terms of gauge and quality. ie I don't want to cut corners, but if the wire is $500 I don't think I need a $500 sub panel. I'd go for one with a main breaker, no lugs, so you don't have to backfeed a breaker to get a single disconnect https://www.lowes.com/pd/Square-D-100-Amp-20-Spaces-40-Circuit-Main-Breaker-Plug-On-Neutral-Load-Center-Value-Pack/50311143 About the same price as buying the panel you had + a 50A breaker to serve as the disconnect. Stock is all wonky right now, so a smaller panel with a main breaker might not be available: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Square-D-100-Amp-12-Spaces-24-Circuit-Main-Breaker-Plug-On-Neutral-Load-Center/50311131 Assuming you have space to hang it, no problem with going bigger.
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May 7, 2021 22:09
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Okay, so for whatever I use for the sub panel, I still need an appropriate 50amp breaker for my main panel, right? Your second link has the main switch, but does not come with the 20amp breaker for each line, which seems normal. It's going on a garage wall, so space isn't a big problem, no. This was my photo from before, now with the 3 spaces on the right filled. 
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May 7, 2021 22:50
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Alarbus posted:Hello again thread, I'm back for another sanity check. Check around, that seems super expensive for a 12k minisplit. I bought my 12k fujitsu from here for the same price but it's near top of the line. You can also get a 220v unit and save on conductor size to the unit itself. https://www.ecomfort.com/LG-LS120HEV2/p99293.html Yours is a DIY kit and good to 5F instead of 14F - the one I linked will likely need you to buy your own 25ft hookup but I believe they all come precharged these days. H110Hawk fucked around with this message at 23:28 on May 7, 2021 |
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May 7, 2021 23:25
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Well that was the only diy one that I knew of that was pre charged, others I was seeing all needed to have a vacuum pulled. Also, it's a bit late at this point.
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May 7, 2021 23:35
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