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Ben Nevis
Jan 20, 2011
I recall we'd talked a couple weeks ago about fantasy with gay male protags, and I just read one that was pretty good. White Trash Warlock by David Slayton is the first in a series. The main character is Adam Binder, a witch from Guthrie, OK who heads out to help his estranged brother. When he gets out to Denver the city has a giant malevolent spirit hanging over it. Obviously Adam needs to fix this. Slayton says he based the character on his own experiences growing up gay in Guthrie, OK. The main plot of this one wraps up, though there's obvious hooks for a sequel (due out in October). I found it to be good, very readable. I got through it faster than expected. I enjoyed the working class protagonist, and being set in Denver, felt like a pretty decent take on the urban fantasy.

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SSJ_naruto_2003
Oct 12, 2012



Ben Nevis posted:

I recall we'd talked a couple weeks ago about fantasy with gay male protags, and I just read one that was pretty good. White Trash Warlock by David Slayton is the first in a series. The main character is Adam Binder, a witch from Guthrie, OK who heads out to help his estranged brother. When he gets out to Denver the city has a giant malevolent spirit hanging over it. Obviously Adam needs to fix this. Slayton says he based the character on his own experiences growing up gay in Guthrie, OK. The main plot of this one wraps up, though there's obvious hooks for a sequel (due out in October). I found it to be good, very readable. I got through it faster than expected. I enjoyed the working class protagonist, and being set in Denver, felt like a pretty decent take on the urban fantasy.

bought it on this rec, sounds good

Evil Fluffy
Jul 13, 2009

Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.

Ccs posted:

I'm a sucker for characters like the Necrolord Prime who seem like such pleasant benefactors at first. Spoilers for The First Law, The Unspoken Name, and maybe Baru: Bayaz, Cairdine Farrier, Sethennai, can't get enough of these types.

Still waiting for Abercrombie to have the guts to knock Bayaz down a peg in the last book of his current trilogy. He probably won't, his pattern is to always have Bayaz be triumphant, but I would really like to see someone do some lasting damage to his empire.


When I read First Law, the twist that Bayaz was a puppetmaster and not some helpful Gandalf knockoff felt telegraphed strongly early on. Not as obvious as Glokta was going to get to torture Sult at some point or that Jezal would be made king, which I think Bayaz outright tells him "this is going to happen because I want it" and should've removed any doubt about Bayaz's true nature but still pretty clear.

Ccs
Feb 25, 2011


Read the two preview chapters Amazon has for The Blacktongue Thief. drat, I'm gonna enjoy this book. I hope Buehlman blows up like Abercrobie and Lynch did in the fantasy genre. It flows so well.

bagrada
Aug 4, 2007

The Demogorgon is tired of your silly human bickering!

Quick question, one of the narrators on This is How You Lose the Time War is Emily Woo Zeller, does anyone know if she voiced Red or Blue? I'm talking to a friend who only knows her as Panam from Cyberpunk 2077.

uber_stoat
Jan 21, 2001



Pillbug

bagrada posted:

Quick question, one of the narrators on This is How You Lose the Time War is Emily Woo Zeller, does anyone know if she voiced Red or Blue? I'm talking to a friend who only knows her as Panam from Cyberpunk 2077.

she's Blue.

tokenbrownguy
Apr 1, 2010

Aardvark! posted:

I just finished Steerswoman book 1, I am on the fence about continuing

I feel like nothing really happened.. I don't know if I can take multiple more books of "get it? the magic is technology" if there isn't any major payoff

Yeah, I made it three books before I gave up. Neat concept with a really lame protagonist and a glacial pace.

unattended spaghetti
May 10, 2013
I'm just about to finish The Company by Parker and holy jeez these are some awful people. Where's the next place to go with Parker. I know there's some big fans in this thread.the only other one I tried was the first in the Scavenger trilogy or something? Protagonist with amnesia. Loved the style, didn't care for the plot.

pradmer
Mar 31, 2009

Follow me for more books on special!
Nevernight by Jay Kristoff - $1.99
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Lilith's Brood: The Complete Xenogenesis Trilogy by Octavia E Butler - $3.99
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Hobnob
Feb 23, 2006

Ursa Adorandum

branedotorg posted:

I missed that one, which one was it?



It was near the beginning of Ch. 10 of Harrow:

quote:

I come from climes of sulphur gas/I shine in plasma sheet/Er-hem-er-hem-er-hem, surpass/My spot a crimson feat,
which is modeled after the only poem in the English language, THE BROOK as per molesworth:

quote:

i come from haunts of coot and hern / i make a sudden sally / and-er-hem-er-hem-the fern / to bicker down a valley

McCoy Pauley
Mar 2, 2006
Gonna eat so many goddamn crumpets.

BurningBeard posted:

I'm just about to finish The Company by Parker and holy jeez these are some awful people. Where's the next place to go with Parker. I know there's some big fans in this thread.the only other one I tried was the first in the Scavenger trilogy or something? Protagonist with amnesia. Loved the style, didn't care for the plot.

If you've read nothing else by him, I'd suggest 16 Ways to Defend a Walled City. That seems generally to be well received by most folks here who've read it. There's a sequel, but it functions well as a stand alone book.

If you'd prefer short stories, both Academic Exercises and Father of Lies are great -- I'd recommend them both equally.

A Proper Uppercut
Sep 30, 2008

McCoy Pauley posted:

If you've read nothing else by him, I'd suggest 16 Ways to Defend a Walled City. That seems generally to be well received by most folks here who've read it. There's a sequel, but it functions well as a stand alone book.

If you'd prefer short stories, both Academic Exercises and Father of Lies are great -- I'd recommend them both equally.

Will second these suggestions. Especially both short story collections, they were excellent.

bagrada
Aug 4, 2007

The Demogorgon is tired of your silly human bickering!

uber_stoat posted:

she's Blue.

Thanks it was bugging me I couldn't find who played which by googling and didn't have access to audio at the time.

Ccs
Feb 25, 2011


BurningBeard posted:

I'm just about to finish The Company by Parker and holy jeez these are some awful people. Where's the next place to go with Parker. I know there's some big fans in this thread.the only other one I tried was the first in the Scavenger trilogy or something? Protagonist with amnesia. Loved the style, didn't care for the plot.

I just put away Foundryside and picked up the first in Parker’s Fencer trilogy instead. It starts strong so I hope it will be a winner. The only Parker book that hasn’t worked for me was the first in his Scavenger trilogy so I gave up on those 3 books. Fencer was from a similar era so I was avoiding it but it looks like it’ll be good.

Edit: I’m a few chapters in now and I’m really really enjoying it. This is apparently the oldest book by Parker and it occurs to me this might be the story he always wanted to tell and probably had gestating in his mind for years as he worked as a solicitor. It’s got hallmarks that reappear in his later work and I’m really enjoying the hints of magic that have been all but absent from his novels but present to great effect in the Academic Exercises stories.

Ccs fucked around with this message at 06:05 on May 8, 2021

Doktor Avalanche
Dec 30, 2008

BurningBeard posted:

I'm just about to finish The Company by Parker and holy jeez these are some awful people. Where's the next place to go with Parker. I know there's some big fans in this thread.the only other one I tried was the first in the Scavenger trilogy or something? Protagonist with amnesia. Loved the style, didn't care for the plot.

I didn't like the scavenger and the fencer series, but the rest was great, he's one of my favorite fantasy authors.

Stupid_Sexy_Flander
Mar 14, 2007

Is a man not entitled to the haw of his maw?
Grimey Drawer
Finished up Bottle Demon by Stephen Blackmoore and it was pretty great. The last book ended on a fucker of a cliff hanger so I had no idea how this one was going to work, but it did.

Doesn't hurt that the cover art is loving spectacular, either.

It's the 6th book in the series, so yea, don't start with it cause you will be lost as gently caress

Has some amazing "cameos" though, so if you are familiar with his other novels you'll be pretty happy with this one.

Groke
Jul 27, 2007
New Adventures In Mom Strength

Ccs posted:

Edit: I’m a few chapters in now and I’m really really enjoying it. This is apparently the oldest book by Parker and it occurs to me this might be the story he always wanted to tell and probably had gestating in his mind for years as he worked as a solicitor. It’s got hallmarks that reappear in his later work and I’m really enjoying the hints of magic that have been all but absent from his novels but present to great effect in the Academic Exercises stories.

Y'all do realize "Parker" is actually Tom Holt, yes? (A revelation that stll blows my mind.) And had an established writing career for a decade before this came out.

(Dude sure likes to use variations of Roman or Byzantine history in his fantasy. Does it a lot.)

SSJ_naruto_2003
Oct 12, 2012



Groke posted:

Y'all do realize "Parker" is actually Tom Holt, yes? (A revelation that stll blows my mind.) And had an established writing career for a decade before this came out.

(Dude sure likes to use variations of Roman or Byzantine history in his fantasy. Does it a lot.)

I read it as him saying it was the first book by holt as Parker and the story he always wanted to write when he started writing

Ccs
Feb 25, 2011


Yeah like I think Holt created the Parker persona so he could write Fencer. I could definitely see him as a solicitor thinking how things would be simpler if lawyers could just solve everything by stabbing each other, or using that premise as a way of satirizing his former career.

Or he could have just been growing tired of writing humor fantasy all the time and a grim story about lawyers who settle things by the sword was within reach because of his background.

Also it’s interesting how much research Parker has put into fencing. It’s clearly a passion of his since his later book Sharps is all about it. I’m at the part where the protagonist is training through all the ways to strike and parry and jab and lunge, etc. with the various mechanisms and targets that are used. Contrast this with Jezal’s fencing training in The Blade Itself, or even Savine’s training in A Little Hatred. It’s clear Abercrombie either didn’t do much research into how fencers actually train, or he just decided getting into the weeds about it wasn’t interesting enough and it was better for coaches to yell “jab jab” during sparring matches.

For most readers that’s enough and it works as shorthand for training. I’m still a big Abercrombie fan. But Parker’s version brings with it authenticity. It makes the world feel credible and less like a grim parody of reality.

Similarly his knowledge of metalworking is top notch. He’s done his homework and it shows.

Ccs fucked around with this message at 18:00 on May 8, 2021

unattended spaghetti
May 10, 2013
Yeah that’s a great point. I was just thinking about the grit of his work. It shows. I love those little peculiarities that say a ton about what the author is into. There’s tons of weird logistical and bureaucratic nerdery in The Company and I just adored it. Needless to say when I started 16 Ways and saw:

Parker posted:

I was in Classis on business. I needed sixty miles of second-grade four-inch hemp rope—I build pontoon bridges—and all the military rope in the empire goes through Classis. What you’re supposed to do is put in a requisition to Divisional Supply, who send it on to Central Supply, who send it on to the Treasurer General, who approves it and sends it back to Divisional Supply, who send it on to Central Supply, who forward it to Classis, where the quartermaster says, sorry, we have no rope. Or you can hire a clever forger in Herennis to cut you an exact copy of the treasury seal, which you use to stamp your requisition, which you then take personally to the office of the deputy quartermaster in Classis, where there’s a senior clerk who’d have done time in the slate quarries if you hadn’t pulled certain documents out of the file a few years back. Of course, you burned the documents as soon as you took them, but he doesn’t know that. And that’s how you get sixty miles of rope in this man’s army.

I knew I was in for a great time. That’s how you start a book.

unattended spaghetti fucked around with this message at 23:14 on May 8, 2021

tiniestacorn
Oct 3, 2015

BurningBeard posted:

I knew I was in for a great time. That’s how you start a book.

Sold. Reading this immediately.

Ccs
Feb 25, 2011


Yeah it’s fantastic. It absolutely sells the lived in feeling of the world full of complicated and illogical bureaucracy that rings completely true.

A lot of this stems from author backgrounds. Parker went to law school, so he’s well acquainted with a part of academia and bureaucratic nonsense. Abercrombie was a video editor. His prose reads like it would translate very well to film, there’s not usually a lot of dense detail that couldn’t be portrayed visually and at a glance.

Really up to personal taste which approach is better.

Groke
Jul 27, 2007
New Adventures In Mom Strength
Parker is also your man for pre-modern siege-engineering porn. Og just pre-modern engineering.

I would not be at all surprised if he's one of those people who build and test trebuchets and such as a hobby.

unattended spaghetti
May 10, 2013
I wish I could find the interview with him when he was still hiding his identity where he just went into absolutely excruciating detail about arms, armor, and sieges. Sometimes somebody’s fascinations can be infectious that way. Anybody know what interview I’m thinking of?

Ccs
Feb 25, 2011


BurningBeard posted:

I wish I could find the interview with him when he was still hiding his identity where he just went into absolutely excruciating detail about arms, armor, and sieges. Sometimes somebody’s fascinations can be infectious that way. Anybody know what interview I’m thinking of?

Could be this one. I really miss this website since they stopped updating in 2018.

https://www.pornokitsch.com/2012/07/pk-interview-kj-parker.html

Deptfordx
Dec 23, 2013

Do you mean this one?

https://subterraneanpress.com/magazine/summer_2013/rich_mens_skins_a_social_history_of_armour_by_k_j_parker

Darkrenown
Jul 18, 2012
please give me anything to talk about besides the fact that democrats are allowing millions of americans to be evicted from their homes

Ccs posted:

Yeah like I think Holt created the Parker persona so he could write Fencer. I could definitely see him as a solicitor thinking how things would be simpler if lawyers could just solve everything by stabbing each other, or using that premise as a way of satirizing his former career.

Or he could have just been growing tired of writing humor fantasy all the time and a grim story about lawyers who settle things by the sword was within reach because of his background.

Also it’s interesting how much research Parker has put into fencing. It’s clearly a passion of his since his later book Sharps is all about it. I’m at the part where the protagonist is training through all the ways to strike and parry and jab and lunge, etc. with the various mechanisms and targets that are used. Contrast this with Jezal’s fencing training in The Blade Itself, or even Savine’s training in A Little Hatred. It’s clear Abercrombie either didn’t do much research into how fencers actually train, or he just decided getting into the weeds about it wasn’t interesting enough and it was better for coaches to yell “jab jab” during sparring matches.

For most readers that’s enough and it works as shorthand for training. I’m still a big Abercrombie fan. But Parker’s version brings with it authenticity. It makes the world feel credible and less like a grim parody of reality.

Similarly his knowledge of metalworking is top notch. He’s done his homework and it shows.

IIRC the 2nd Fencer book is The belly of the bow, and the foreword states that he's actually crafted all the bows your see being made in the story himself except one.

I enjoyed the Scavenger books, but I liked the Fencer series more. In the scavenger you spend a lot of time wondering what the hell is going on, while in Fencer only part of the plot is like that.

I most enjoyed The Folding Knife and Sixteen ways to defend a walled city (although the ending :( ). 16 ways also has a direct followup, How to rule an empire and get away with it (which in retrospect is a great title). And The Engineer Trilogy seems either to be a later followup or is heavily inspired by it. They're all good!

I just picked up Sharps, which someone mentioned above, but for some reason Amazon UK doesn't have a kindle version of Savages :confused:

unattended spaghetti
May 10, 2013

Yes! That’s the one. Ten-ish years turned an interesting essay into an interview. Time is weird. Thank you. That other one is fantastic too. I think I’ll do Sharps next. It’s what I’d have gone for absent a suggestion.

EdBlackadder
Apr 8, 2009
Lipstick Apathy
The Proof House was my white whale book for years but I throw thoroughly enjoyed the trilogy.

I never could figure out who the sorcerer was in The Fencer though. Drove me nuts.

Deptfordx
Dec 23, 2013

BurningBeard posted:

Yes! That’s the one. Ten-ish years turned an interesting essay into an interview. Time is weird. Thank you. That other one is fantastic too. I think I’ll do Sharps next. It’s what I’d have gone for absent a suggestion.

Not to deep dive on that essay in something that isn't the military history thread but just to pick the opening paragraphs.
.

quote:


In ancient Greece, birthplace of democracy, the concept “too poor to fight” would have been universally understood. At some point around 650BC, the Greeks adopted a highly formalised form of warfare, the phalanx. Battles were all the same. The opposing armies, made up of affluent citizens in heavy armour, lined up opposite each other in wide formations five or so ranks deep. They charged, collided, pushed and shoved until one side gave way and ran. They were all armed with spears, but in the cramped conditions of the phalanx, they couldn’t really use them. The spear was held in one hand, overarm; it was over six feet long and weighed three or four pounds. Simply keeping control of the wretched thing, holding it over your head, while shoving and being crushed from both sides by four ranks of strong men must have been some achievement. Striking downwards hard enough to pierce the enemy’s breastplate, using only the arm muscles, must have been practically impossible.

A phalanx battle was a scrum, pure and simple. The side that was bravest and best nourished, and which shoved hardest, won. The other side broke formation and ran—at which point there was room to use weapons, and the fugitives took losses. A wise general didn’t let his soldiers pursue too far, however. The phalanx was as simple and as basic as two stags locking antlers.

is definitely not a settled opinion.

For a completely different take on phalanx warfare I'd look at A Storm of Spears.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Storm-Spears-Christopher-Matthew-ebook/dp/B00AHITZHE/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1614768930&sr=8-1

That's just for an example.

He's making a lot of assertions in the rest of that essay that are, shall we say, open to debate.

JTDistortion
Mar 28, 2010

Ben Nevis posted:

I recall we'd talked a couple weeks ago about fantasy with gay male protags, and I just read one that was pretty good. White Trash Warlock by David Slayton is the first in a series. The main character is Adam Binder, a witch from Guthrie, OK who heads out to help his estranged brother. When he gets out to Denver the city has a giant malevolent spirit hanging over it. Obviously Adam needs to fix this. Slayton says he based the character on his own experiences growing up gay in Guthrie, OK. The main plot of this one wraps up, though there's obvious hooks for a sequel (due out in October). I found it to be good, very readable. I got through it faster than expected. I enjoyed the working class protagonist, and being set in Denver, felt like a pretty decent take on the urban fantasy.

I'll second this recommendation; it was a fun read.

withak
Jan 15, 2003


Fun Shoe

ToxicFrog posted:

Steerswoman is very good indeed and maybe, someday, we'll even get that last book in the series

I just blasted through all four of these in a little over a week, and then googled to learn that that the most recent one was published in 2004. :sigh:

On the plus side, I also learned that the first one was written in 1989, which I absolutely would not have guessed because it has not aged a minute. The list of 1980s scifi/fantasy that doesn't make you cringe at least a little bit in the year 2021 is not long.

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012

Deptfordx posted:

Not to deep dive on that essay in something that isn't the military history thread but just to pick the opening paragraphs.
.

is definitely not a settled opinion.

For a completely different take on phalanx warfare I'd look at A Storm of Spears.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Storm-Spears-Christopher-Matthew-ebook/dp/B00AHITZHE/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1614768930&sr=8-1

That's just for an example.

He's making a lot of assertions in the rest of that essay that are, shall we say, open to debate.

Yeah, it's not that these assertions are definitely wrong, so much as that they're hotly disputed, like much else involving ancient Greek warfare. Understanding Greek Warfare, by Matthew Sears, lays out the various arguments very well (not only on the nature of phalanx battles, but also other disputes like how much the Iliad reflects actual Bronze Age warfare, the relationship between the rise of the phalanx and the rise of the polis, and what if anything Alexander the Great was trying to accomplish beyond conquest for its own sake).

xiw
Sep 25, 2011

i wake up at night
night action madness nightmares
maybe i am scum

Cpig Haiku contest 2020 winner
On that note I finished Two of Swords and the mentions of Vesani and Mezentia warring were interesting - were there any hints as to if this is the same one seen in the Engineer books or not?

God I'd love a map for these books.

pradmer
Mar 31, 2009

Follow me for more books on special!
Cloud Atlas by David Mitchell - $2.99
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000SEGUDE/

Altered Carbon (Takeshi Kovacs #1) by Richard K Morgan - $2.99
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The Last Wish (Witcher) by Andrzej Sapkowski - $2.99
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The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood - $2.99
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Lovecraft Country by Matt Ruff - $2.99
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Dune Messiah (Dune #2) by Frank Herbert - $1.99
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Not really scifi/fantasy but still cool
Entire James Bond original series by Ian Fleming - $0.99 each
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0868BYV6R/

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Why would an ambulance be leaving the hospital?

pradmer posted:


Not really scifi/fantasy but still cool
Entire James Bond original series by Ian Fleming - $0.99 each
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0868BYV6R/

Very well-written but be aware, often *extremely* racist. I wouldn't tell anyone to avoid em for that reason but it helps to know going in.

Teddybear
May 16, 2009

Look! A teddybear doll!
It's soooo cute!


pradmer posted:

Not really scifi/fantasy but still cool
Entire James Bond original series by Ian Fleming - $0.99 each
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0868BYV6R/

There's a really good Let's Read thread in the goldmine that goes through the James Bond books! Folks add a lot about the real-world locations, food, drink, history, etc that surrounds the books.

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3861448

Ccs
Feb 25, 2011


Colours in the Steel is fantastic so far, it feels a lot like The Blade Itself, with characters slowly circling around what will be big clashes but take their sweet time getting there. Still, each scene is strong enough on its own to keep momentum, which I didn’t feel in the first book of the Scavenger trilogy.

Considering Fencer came out in 1998 and Abercrombie debuted in 2004 it feels a bit unfair that Parker didn’t get the accolades as progenitor of “grim dark”. But Parker’s work is more subtly biting, with a low key cynicism. Abercrombie is more in your face and flashier with sarcasm and almost scattershot in his critiques of institutions. And Abercrombie’s books are, I have to say, more entertaining. Even though Parker is Holt, a comedy fantasy writer, Abercrombie feels far more influenced by parodic fantasy. Like Discworld with blood and guts. But Pratchett usually split his books into one subject at a time, whereas First Law feels like it’s taking jabs at everything it can at all times. Which is certainly fun to read, but don’t feel like incisive take downs, just jokes at easy targets.

Anyway glad I’m reading Fencer, this will definitely last me until The Blacktongue Thief comes out

unattended spaghetti
May 10, 2013
I like Abercrombie just fine, but after enough books, you start to see that he’s not upending tropes because he’s clever, he’s doing it because he’s petulant. I think he was embraced largely because nobody of note or high profile enough cared to take up the task.

And what appears to be grounded, world-weary dialog very quickly grates as affectation once you’ve read enough of his books. I think he would be better served outside of fantasy. I won’t say it was his best, but Red Country felt like a book where he felt comfortable, and that’s basically just a western.

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pseudorandom name
May 6, 2007

https://twitter.com/jamesdnicoll/status/1391140812696788996

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