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On the other hand the guy I know who ended up working for google after college only had 1 thing on his github and that was an app to display which dining locations that accepted his school's dining currency was open. He used to bonsai, smoke weed, or play video games in the entirety of his free time.
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May 8, 2021 01:04
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AnimeIsTrash posted:On the other hand the guy I know who ended up working for google after college only had 1 thing on his github and that was an app to display which dining locations that accepted his school's dining currency was open. He used to bonsai, smoke weed, or play video games in the entirety of his free time. sounds like someone who can accurately pick what projects are valuable to work on
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May 8, 2021 01:10
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100% I will cop to missing good early-career candidates with the GitHub requirement. It's my own fault I can't filter them from resume alone, but I can't. I only hire maybe 1-2 computer touchers per year and have no other help hiring so how I optimize my time might not apply to other companies. Hopefully others are better about knowing you're awesome purely from your resume and phone interview. Forums Medic posted:the interviewing thread should be one way, interviewers need not post yea we should only listen to people who've done 10 interviews and exclude the people who make the decisions we care about and have done 100s of interviews. makes sense The Fool posted:requiring a portfolio selects against candidates that are in life situations that don’t lend themselves to a lot of work-outside-of-work free time but could otherwise be excellent employees See previous post where I didnt have this requirement and decided this was okay. I know I'm digging a hole but: Our little 10 person company is and always has been diverse as gently caress on gender and ethnicity. I'm okay excluding those who are privileged enough to not need to make a portfolio. I'm happy that the people I've hired since doing this contribute to the outcomes for the company and contribute different backgrounds and ideas than we might get if I hired along my own biased perception of "good candidates" which, according to data, isn't that good. My biases are bad at hiring, so I use a portfolio.
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May 8, 2021 01:11
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taco_fox posted:lol if you think I have any desire to write code if I don't get paid for it Please understand that I don't intend this as any sort of slam on you, dig at you, etc. But I'm curious. What made you decide to go into programming in the first place, if you knew you didn't really like doing it that much? I ask because I find that I find it hard to avoid writing code purely for my own utility or amusement, quite outside of what I do for work.
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May 8, 2021 02:00
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nothing quite takes the joy out of a hobby like doing it for a living
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May 8, 2021 02:23
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Forums Medic posted:the interviewing thread should be one way, interviewers need not post
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May 8, 2021 03:10
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CarForumPoster posted:100% I will cop to missing good early-career candidates with the GitHub requirement. Do you not require it for mid to late career candidates because I don't have a github either. Or I do, but I haven't checked in anything to it in a few years and when I do/did, its gently caress around work that I don't care about. Lol like I'm gonna write code on my own time, and DOUBLE lol if you think its gonna be good code with unit tests and stuff, or anything that would establish that I can write clean maintainable code edit: ah you said for people with less than 5 years. I still prefer a takehome project to the github requirement but whatever ADINSX fucked around with this message at 03:25 on May 8, 2021 |
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May 8, 2021 03:22
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i used to have a github where i did programming stuff. then i got a programming job. then i had a github where i did hacker stuff, then i got a hacker stuff job. now the only thing i push to github is my dotfiles if i ever try to turn another hobby into a job, tell me not to. it's not terrible or anything but ∀x turning x into a job really takes the fun out of x
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May 8, 2021 03:25
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Quackles posted:Please understand that I don't intend this as any sort of slam on you, dig at you, etc. But I'm curious. What made you decide to go into programming in the first place, if you knew you didn't really like doing it that much? I don't find programming "fun". It's interesting enough to keep me engaged at work, but I have other things to occupy my time when I get home. I got into programming because I took a C++ class in high school and had a knack for it. It's a good career so I decided to continue with it. I almost switched to geology in college because I found it more interesting, but had to settle for a minor since I was too far along with CS. I'm much happier looking at rocks than an IDE in my free time. And just to keep on topic, I signed the papers for a new job this week. Title bump and 25% raise. The place I interviewed at didn't require me to do homework
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May 8, 2021 05:57
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CarForumPoster posted:
What makes you think that the people who don't have a portfolio are the privileged ones?
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May 8, 2021 09:13
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Quackles posted:Please understand that I don't intend this as any sort of slam on you, dig at you, etc. But I'm curious. What made you decide to go into programming in the first place, if you knew you didn't really like doing it that much? I watched something the other day that laid it out very well. When you hear someone is passionate about a boring job, like being a corporate accountant it's not because they dreamed as a child of being a corporate accountant. They're passionate about it because they are successful in doing it. I started out being a software engineer because I'm good at it, but it's a job not my hobby. In the 20 years I've been doing this job, in my experience the better folk at the job are the people who treat it as a job as well. It's not a question of liking doing it or not, its a good job and you get paid a ton of money for doing it, why wouldn't you want to do it. I have done little hobby projects as well, but it's not something I do day to day. Weirdly I do more development now than I've done for years because I volunteer with a project teaching refugees and economically disadvantaged people how to programme.
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May 8, 2021 11:32
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Thats pretty rad, nice one. On the other hand, I code for hobby stuff and for a living, and doing it for work hasn't killed the hobby at all, probably the opposite tbh. Having a full time job at all affects it cos I'm tired at the end of the day and I've got a ton of other hobbies I want to find time for.
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May 8, 2021 12:00
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yeah different people have different hobbies; it's not that you can't enjoy programming on your own and also program as your job, but considering folks who don't as somehow worse than those who do is pretty ridiculous
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May 8, 2021 12:23
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actually show me some examples of you doing your job on your own time as passion. and given im a pharmacist, show them some youtubes of me pissing lots because I took lots of not-prescribed furosemide
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May 8, 2021 12:37
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Quackles posted:Please understand that I don't intend this as any sort of slam on you, dig at you, etc. But I'm curious. What made you decide to go into programming in the first place, if you knew you didn't really like doing it that much? if i need to trade my time in order to live, i want to get the best value i can for it.
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May 8, 2021 13:18
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Forums Medic posted:the interviewing thread should be one way, interviewers need not post incorrect
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May 8, 2021 14:12
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Xarn posted:What makes you think that the people who don't have a portfolio are the privileged ones? because when you’re making $12/hr and have $2k in savings decreasing weekly, or working a job you loving hate but could be making figgies and spending 10 hours polishing up something that is free increases the chance of figgies you find 10 hours because you have to if you’ve already got that job offer from Lockheed for a fresh $75k cause you have a BSCS, internship and a 3.2GPA yea you can skip a GitHub and a LinkedIn.
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May 8, 2021 14:24
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CarForumPoster posted:because when you’re making $12/hr and have $2k in savings decreasing weekly, or working a job you loving hate this is literally the republican bootstrap fantasy
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May 8, 2021 14:50
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it’s weird af this thread would advocate for polishing a resume, studying for an interview, learning to negotiate as things that improve your job prospects and outcomes but not make a GitHub, something roughly 30% of candidates do, that’s giving your time away for free
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May 8, 2021 15:02
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Quackles posted:Would you hire an artist without a portfolio? professional artists do not commonly create work that nobody but their employer can ever see toiletbrush posted:On the other hand, I code for hobby stuff and for a living, and doing it for work hasn't killed the hobby at all, probably the opposite tbh. Having a full time job at all affects it cos I'm tired at the end of the day and I've got a ton of other hobbies I want to find time for. this is me. i love programming. but it’s work. it takes up a substantial amount of time and it’s mentally tiring. after a full day of doing it for money i don’t want to keep doing it for fun.
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May 8, 2021 15:07
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CarForumPoster posted:because when you’re making $12/hr and have $2k in savings decreasing weekly, or working a job you loving hate sorry when would you have the time or energy to curate a github presence worthy of employment when you don't have fixed hours (because that's how part time work goes) and by the time you get home you still have to take care of the rest of the things in your life. even if you're a new college grad without family obligations that still includes grocery shopping, cooking, cleaning, any bit of entertainment to keep you sane, and any other number of things you're hiring for graduates who have family support and don't actually need that $12/hr job and even though you swear your company is diverse, the pool of talent you're looking at skews almost universally male, cis, and white
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May 8, 2021 15:19
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what even is supposed to be on these githubs
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May 8, 2021 15:21
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CarForumPoster posted:it’s weird af this thread would advocate for polishing a resume, studying for an interview, learning to negotiate as things that improve your job prospects and outcomes Because those things don't take as much time, and are more widely applicable to the interviewing process, than creating and maintaining a github project. All companies, yours too probably, will want to see a resume and probably ask programming questions during the interview, so those are mandatory things, then on top of that I have to put some stuff on github. This is also the thread that generally dislikes take home projects since they sometimes require too much time. I'd rather spend 2-4 hours focused on a take home project than ~30 minutes stressed out in an interview scrambling to reverse a tree or whatever, but I have the luxury of free time. Out of curiosity, how much time do people typically spend on their side projects, is that ever something you ask?
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May 8, 2021 15:36
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raminasi posted:professional artists do not commonly create work that nobody but their employer can ever see they frequently do have entitled assholes asking them to work for because the big money is going to start pouring in after making an uncredited logo for big bob's bottomless pork butt bonanza in butte montana (currently closed because "nobody wants to work anymore" [full time for poverty wages]) The_Franz fucked around with this message at 15:45 on May 8, 2021 |
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May 8, 2021 15:38
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hobbesmaster posted:what even is supposed to be on these githubs I have this question too. On my gently caress around github that I haven't touched in 3 years, I have some Arduino code for a birdhouse that plays music, a Scala implementation of pagerank applied to college football records as an alternative way of deciding the national champion (who did the teams you beat, beat?) and some half finished code to read in a US road network to build a graph used for displaying road trip routes that could have been viable in pre-interstate America. None of this code is good, or done, or has tests, or is any indication of how I'd work if reliability and maintainability was my goal... why would you want to look at it? The idea that candidates should contribute real, good code to open source projects or something is insane to me
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May 8, 2021 15:40
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People who love programming so much that they'll spend all their free time on it will work for cheap. That's the theory here.
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May 8, 2021 15:42
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the original post that prompted this was more "this requirement has materially improved our hiring process, which i acknowledge as a sign that it is flawed" which is at least a little defensible
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May 8, 2021 16:09
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ADINSX posted:Scala implementation of pagerank applied to college football records as an alternative way of deciding the national champion (who did the teams you beat, beat?) use "machine learning" to determine the "funniest" ranking and send weekly reports during the season to spencer hall and jason kirk please
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May 8, 2021 16:12
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raminasi posted:the original post that prompted this was more "this requirement has materially improved our hiring process, which i acknowledge as a sign that it is flawed" which is at least a little defensible Yeah I get it, its become more a general gripe that new developers are expected to contribute to open source, maybe because I read rotor's essay on it hobbesmaster posted:use "machine learning" to determine the "funniest" ranking and send weekly reports during the season to spencer hall and jason kirk please I recall when I ran it on the 2008 season it declared Ol Miss the winners because they beat Florida, who was undefeated (and the actual national champs). They also had some quality wins (No. 18 LSU, No. 8 Texas Tech) and most of their losses were to unranked teams that didn't matter (excluding a loss to No 2 Alabama). So a silly experiment, but The (Google Invented!) Algorithm has spoken, go ahead and raise the flag in vaught hemmingway stadium
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May 8, 2021 16:27
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ultrafilter posted:People who love programming so much that they'll spend all their free time on it will work for cheap. That's the theory here. there's always fresh naive blood every year
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May 8, 2021 17:01
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do you think it’s a fair question to ask if the position you’re applying for is a new one and, if not, why did it become available? (ie did the last person quit or get promoted or what)
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May 8, 2021 17:11
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ADINSX posted:Yeah I get it, its become more a general gripe that new developers are expected to contribute to open source, maybe because I read rotor's essay on it The moon poll thread in tff used to be super cool, there were like a dozen people coming up with different ranking methods and comparing results
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May 8, 2021 17:14
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jesus WEP posted:do you think it’s a fair question to ask if the position you’re applying for is a new one and, if not, why did it become available? (ie did the last person quit or get promoted or what) It's fair to ask if it's a new position or replacing someone in an existing position as it indicates things about the company. Interviews are two way.
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May 8, 2021 17:16
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What Aramoro said, or if you really wamt to know why if it's not new then split it into 2/3 questions probing deeper.
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May 8, 2021 17:22
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toiletbrush posted:Having a full time job at all affects it cos I'm tired at the end of the day and I've got a ton of other hobbies I want to find time for. yeah it's this. the last time i wrote code for funsies, it was like last may and i had a week off work so i wrote and released an audio plugin thing is, spending time with family in the general case isn't really negotiable- i wanna hang out with my kid. then if i want to play some music, watch a movie, and play a video game that's pretty much all my week's free time right there. Achmed Jones fucked around with this message at 17:29 on May 8, 2021 |
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May 8, 2021 17:27
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CarForumPoster posted:it’s weird af this thread would advocate for polishing a resume, studying for an interview, learning to negotiate as things that improve your job prospects and outcomes I don't think anyone is saying a candidate should not make a github. they're saying an interview should not require it.
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May 8, 2021 17:43
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Truman Peyote posted:I don't think anyone is saying a candidate should not make a github. they're saying an interview should not require it. yeah this I will absolutely recommend making a portfolio if you have the time and lack relevant work experience. it can be super helpful if you’re going in as a junior and don’t have a degree or are trying to change careers
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May 8, 2021 18:20
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Achmed Jones posted:now the only thing i push to github is my dotfiles also some gently caress around shader stuff
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May 8, 2021 19:05
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The Fool posted:yeah this Aramoro posted:s
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May 8, 2021 19:05
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I made a portfolio when I got laid off from Experts Exchange, but that was because I had ten years of experience with nothing I was allowed to show for it. I was absolutely privileged to be able to do so, with unemployment insurance that covered the bills plus ten weeks of severance. I've been hired twice since then and I doubt either place actually looked at my portfolio.
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May 8, 2021 19:08
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