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To be fair the galaxy often IS dark and full of terror. It's just that often it's me, in the form of a galaxy spanning Skynet or an empire of intelligent xenomorphs  Just a primitive civilization reaching the stars, full of hope only to learn an unimaginably vast organism stretching across hundreds of stars, consisting of uncountable billions of ravenous drones with technology so far ahead of yours that it might as well be magic. Your entire civilizations crowning achievment is constructing a large space station and managing to travel to a distant star while they build ringworlds and dyson spheres, and the one thing they are bent on is devouring everything that is not them.
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May 10, 2021 20:28
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You start the game with the knowledge that there's a guaranteed nearly two nearly perfect planets within arm's reach. How is that even remotely compatible with dark and scary.
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May 10, 2021 20:33
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tak posted:Can confirm, that dragon blew up my colony and held a chokepoint system of mine until I got a 30k fleet I don't remember an artefact, oh wait, I forgot the event chain is older than the archaeology-system. Last time I did the dig site it ended with "weird, this entire thing is some sort of giant, broken egg shell, what could have happened" and I was like motherfucker, because I immediately remembered the void egg event chain
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May 10, 2021 20:47
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Splicer posted:You start the game with the knowledge that there's a guaranteed nearly two nearly perfect planets within arm's reach. How is that even remotely compatible with dark and scary. you can switch those off, though if the galaxy isn't scary enough for you, I mean
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May 10, 2021 20:47
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Staltran posted:It would never have occurred to me to build armies when dealing with abandoned terraforming equipment for the first time. That's completely out of left field for me. The thought that a player would, without having seen the event before or looking it up on the wiki, build armies before fiddling with abandoned terraforming equipment is absolutely bizarre to me. This x 100
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May 10, 2021 20:53
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I'm going to expand on that because it's one of my pet peeves. To make the game fair everyone gets two near perfect planets. But that's dumb. Super dumb. You want dark and scary, but fair? Give 80% of the planets in the galaxy yellow or worse modifiers. Scrub or red modifier every 70%+ compatible planet from within 12 jumps of the player. Give them one guaranteed 60% planet and one 80% with a yellow modifier on it. THAT's how you do fair + dark and scary. There's a reason you're the only species to survive to sapience in the local cluster, every other nearby planet is covered in storms or being bombarded by meteors or on fire or something. Forget Gaia worlds. Literally forget them, they're not compatible with "dark and scary". Make your players ecstatic to find a yellow planet with a green modifier on it, and go to war when you spot your neighbour sitting on the only unmodified planet of your habitability you've seen the entire game and they're not even using it.
Splicer fucked around with this message at 21:01 on May 10, 2021 |
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May 10, 2021 20:54
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Splicer posted:I'm going to expand on that because it's one of my pet peeves. To make the game fair everyone gets two near perfect planets. But that's dumb. Super dumb. You want dark and scary, but fair? Give 80% of the planets in the galaxy yellow or worse modifiers. Scrub or red modifier every 70%+ compatible planet from within 12 jumps of the player. Give them one guaranteed 60% planet and one 80% with a yellow modifier on it. THAT's how you do fair + dark and scary. Forget Gaia worlds. Literally forget them, they're not compatible with "dark and scary". Make your players ecstatic to find a yellow planet with a green modifier on it, and go to war when you spot your neighbour sitting on the only unmodified planet of your habitability you've seen the entire game and they're not even using it. leave gaia worlds in but make it so that you can't see the Holy World modifier so there's a very good chance that if you colonize a seemingly perfect planet an ancient, technologically advanced race will take offence and virus bomb your homeworld in retaliation
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May 10, 2021 21:01
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cock hero flux posted:leave gaia worlds in but make it so that you can't see the Holy World modifier so there's a very good chance that if you colonize a seemingly perfect planet an ancient, technologically advanced race will take offence and virus bomb your homeworld in retaliation I mean you'll still know because they put a signboard with the sacred name in orbit above that planet. (This is in fact how you identified the holy worlds before they added that modifier, iirc.)
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May 10, 2021 21:03
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Splicer posted:I'm going to expand on that because it's one of my pet peeves. To make the game fair everyone gets two near perfect planets. But that's dumb. Super dumb. You want dark and scary, but fair? Give 80% of the planets in the galaxy yellow or worse modifiers. Scrub or red modifier every 70%+ compatible planet from within 12 jumps of the player. Give them one guaranteed 60% planet and one 80% with a yellow modifier on it. THAT's how you do fair + dark and scary. There's a reason you're the only species to survive to sapience in the local cluster, every other nearby planet is covered in storms or being bombarded by meteors or on fire or something. Forget Gaia worlds. Literally forget them, they're not compatible with "dark and scary". Make your players ecstatic to find a yellow planet with a green modifier on it, and go to war when you spot your neighbour sitting on the only unmodified planet of your habitability you've seen the entire game and they're not even using it. I always keep that setting on 1, because I think two planets is a bit much. But you can just switch guaranteed planets off, so half of your wishes already exist? The other half is supplied by Guili's Planet Modifier mod (And didn't the devs come out and say they don't want to add too many or too strong planet modifiers? Sounds like they're actively hostile on your ideas there! Just go with mod + 0 planets instead. Wish granted!)
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May 10, 2021 21:05
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Yami Fenrir posted:I mean you'll still know because they put a signboard with the sacred name in orbit above that planet. yes, remove that also, have them just be named "P3X 4Z9 III" right up until 200k fleet power jump drives itself into the system and informs you that its true name is Sacred Oasis and that you should all assume the Repentance Position and await your divinely mandated atomization
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May 10, 2021 21:09
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cock hero flux posted:leave gaia worlds in but make it so that you can't see the Holy World modifier so there's a very good chance that if you colonize a seemingly perfect planet an ancient, technologically advanced race will take offence and virus bomb your homeworld in retaliation Gaia worlds shouldn't be a type, they would be a hyperspecialisation modifier. +50% habitability to anyone the primary planet type, -50% to adjacent planet types. Happiness boost for anyone who can survive on it (because it's perfect, for you!), but the air might as well be poison to anyone it's not specifically made for. Oh and any naturally occurring one is 95% of the time filled with a mind controlling supercomputer or something. Splicer fucked around with this message at 21:26 on May 10, 2021 |
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May 10, 2021 21:18
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Libluini posted:I always keep that setting on 1, because I think two planets is a bit much. But you can just switch guaranteed planets off, so half of your wishes already exist? The other half is supplied by Guili's Planet Modifier mod Splicer fucked around with this message at 21:26 on May 10, 2021 |
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May 10, 2021 21:23
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Yami Fenrir posted:Eh, never felt that way to me. It's not nearly full enough of terrors if that's what you're going for. One-off events occasionally don't really count as "full of terrors."
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May 10, 2021 21:29
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Splicer posted:I'm going to expand on that because it's one of my pet peeves. To make the game fair everyone gets two near perfect planets. But that's dumb. Super dumb. You want dark and scary, but fair? Give 80% of the planets in the galaxy yellow or worse modifiers. Scrub or red modifier every 70%+ compatible planet from within 12 jumps of the player. Give them one guaranteed 60% planet and one 80% with a yellow modifier on it. THAT's how you do fair + dark and scary. There's a reason you're the only species to survive to sapience in the local cluster, every other nearby planet is covered in storms or being bombarded by meteors or on fire or something. Forget Gaia worlds. Literally forget them, they're not compatible with "dark and scary". Make your players ecstatic to find a yellow planet with a green modifier on it, and go to war when you spot your neighbour sitting on the only unmodified planet of your habitability you've seen the entire game and they're not even using it. To be clear, my statement was that "it's about exploring an unknown and often hostile galaxy" - I mentioned the "dark and full of terrors" line because the poster who replied to me didn't have the impression it was meant to be at all hostile. I would say I don't think it quite became "full of terrors" because there's a fair amount of fun and whimsy too, (although there are some fairly dark areas and the player can often be the source of a lot of it) but I certainly don't feel it's an entirely safe galaxy. I also don't like the guaranteed worlds - for whatever reason there was a lot of focus on trying to have very equal starting positions and guaranteeing two colonies was part of that, to smooth out some of the early randomness where one player finds an ideal world or two while another is in a dead end. Of course, various changes and especially Origins have moved away from that, but the guaranteed two have remained. But at least there's a slider to change it.
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May 10, 2021 21:31
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popewiles posted:Can't believe someone is actually defending the handful of random events that take your colony as anything but newbie traps. I'm not defending them. (Are you confusing me with someone else?) I don't think they are very interesting. Between the open-ended randomness and emphasis on ground combat, they seem to be like a relic left over from a very different vision for what Stellaris was going to be. But even when you table that objection, terraforming machine > monsters is a very left-field result.
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May 10, 2021 21:33
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I blocked off one of my Hive Mind Neighbors. Turned out they were Doomsday and didn't have any habitable planets in their currently claimed space, so they exploded and all died. Whoops.
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May 10, 2021 21:50
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Splicer posted:Among other issues, that also implies there's enough gaia worlds out there that this is a legitimate gamble, which is again incompatible with a dark, scary universe. Instead of gaia worlds, surround the spiritualists with pristine planets, one of each variety, each with a green modifier. Perfection does not exist when it's "dark and full of terrors", but one of these is perfect to you, and you have seen nothing as perfect all game. OTOH almost all species in stellaris ultimately share similar habitability preferences since it's Carbon and oxygen chauvinism: the game.
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May 10, 2021 21:57
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Darkrenown posted:To be clear, my statement was that "it's about exploring an unknown and often hostile galaxy" - I mentioned the "dark and full of terrors" line because the poster who replied to me didn't have the impression it was meant to be at all hostile. I would say I don't think it quite became "full of terrors" because there's a fair amount of fun and whimsy too, (although there are some fairly dark areas and the player can often be the source of a lot of it) but I certainly don't feel it's an entirely safe galaxy. There's not even pollution mechanics. And yeah, you can really tell that you had one chunk of team fighting for a cool RP centric game and another chunk fighting for a cool competitive RTS and there's definite friction where the two clash. e: like, again, most of your scientists die of old age, so one dying from a random failed roll feels dumb and lovely. If scientists lasted on average maybe 12 systems then yeah it would feel dark and scary, and also one of them dying after just 6 systems would feel like bonus terror instead. Splicer fucked around with this message at 22:03 on May 10, 2021 |
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May 10, 2021 22:00
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Libluini posted:The one event that really made me poo poo my pants was the one you can get if you colonize a planet with the void dragon egg in it and get the outcome of it hatching. There's nothing quite like not only losing your colony, but also getting a hostile space monster to replace it. i had that event complete just as i researched the system in my previous game. my science vessel got the gently caress out and then the wraith came out of another player's territory and started coming for me. until it pathed through the void egg 
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May 10, 2021 22:00
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Darkrenown posted:"full of terrors" I thought the tagline was "the galaxy is ancient and full of wonders", come to think of it
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May 10, 2021 22:05
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Splicer posted:I think what I'm trying to say is... if you want the galaxy to be unknown and hostile, it needs a base level of hostility.
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May 10, 2021 22:05
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Splicer posted:Man I knew you were going to say this. No, that's not what Guilli's does, and turning off the guaranteed planets doesn't turn off nearby naturally occurring. I could script what I'm talking about easily but you're missing my entire point, which is that how does a games company want to make the universe "dark and full or terrors" and then saturate it with pristine gardens of eden for you to manifest destiny all over with no negative consequences apart from the occasional die roll which has an equal chance of giving you an even better paradise? This is just baffling to me. Baffling. Easy, they don't want to. Apparently I misunderstood you, I thought you were making a wish list for what you like to play, not commenting on the game as is. I thought it was obvious that the devs went with "the universe is full of horrors and wonders" and not making Event Horizon: The Game! So you think the devs wanted to make a dark and edgy space 4x? Man, I just don't get you 
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May 10, 2021 22:06
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I'm mostly struck by somebody skipping the old gods event when it's an easy 80 influence at a time when you're stretched for it and they spawn in fairly friendly ways that you'll just run across them with the science ship eventually. I also had no idea the 42 years event was not a bomb if you colonize the planet beforehand so that's cool to know. I usually get the interdictor or the crappy engineering one anyway. The interdictor can be great if you find the system early and get a sweet 2k ship by 2250
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May 10, 2021 22:09
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Libluini posted:Easy, they don't want to. Staltran posted:Is it though? There are very few events like that. Most games of Stellaris you probably won't run into any of them. I've been playing since release and I would never have described Stellaris as "a game about exploring an unknown and often hostile galaxy". Darkrenown posted:Huh, well it's interesting you say that, and even moreso if many people share that view. It was certainly meant to be, the early internal tagline was "the galaxy is dark and full of terrors". I feel it comes across, but maybe it doesn't to neutral viewers Darkrenown posted:To be clear, my statement was that "it's about exploring an unknown and often hostile galaxy" - I mentioned the "dark and full of terrors" line because the poster who replied to me didn't have the impression it was meant to be at all hostile. I would say I don't think it quite became "full of terrors" because there's a fair amount of fun and whimsy too, (although there are some fairly dark areas and the player can often be the source of a lot of it) but I certainly don't feel it's an entirely safe galaxy. Splicer posted:I think what I'm trying to say is... if you want the galaxy to be unknown and hostile, it needs a base level of hostility. If the levels of hostility are too low then the occasional hostile peaks are aberrations, and will be perceived as such.
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May 10, 2021 22:11
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Gort posted:I thought the tagline was "the galaxy is ancient and full of wonders", come to think of it Either tagline has been used at different times for different Stellaris products, though I must admit I forget which used which.
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May 10, 2021 22:12
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A dark and edgy space 4x would have it's players struggle through the brutal reality of the rocket equation until they earned themselves a visit from a couple of relativistic kill vehicles from a Dyson Swarm after testing an antimatter engine to actually get anywhere.
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May 10, 2021 22:12
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Gort posted:I thought the tagline was "the galaxy is ancient and full of wonders", come to think of it This also fits the asteroid thing from ages ago; sometimes the best thing to do with something wonderous is to admire it from afar.
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May 10, 2021 22:16
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Gort posted:I thought the tagline was "the galaxy is ancient and full of wonders", come to think of it IIRC it evolved as the internal line became external - both because of changes and to not be such a GoT rip off.
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May 10, 2021 22:27
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On the remnant terraforming thing: A lot of players hate any sort of chance to have a negative consequence that might in some way set them back at all. Those players should not press the button because it has a small chance to harm your empire slightly. As a note: these are the same posters who describe anything past the midgame as ‘a victory lap’ Yngwie Mangosteen fucked around with this message at 22:57 on May 10, 2021 |
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May 10, 2021 22:54
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It probably doesn't help that the upsides for most of the random chance events are not worth the risk, even if you're okay with taking risks.
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May 10, 2021 22:56
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Splicer posted:Among other issues, that also implies there's enough gaia worlds out there that this is a legitimate gamble, which is again incompatible with a dark, scary universe. Instead of gaia worlds, surround the spiritualists with pristine planets, one of each variety, each with a green modifier. Perfection does not exist when it's "dark and full of terrors", but one of these is perfect to you, and you have seen nothing as perfect all game. imo you're being way too reductive toward the "dark and full of terrors" internal line. The galaxy can be literally zerg-rushed and devoured by extragalactic horrors in late game; that's dark and terrifying no matter how many gaia worlds the galaxy has.
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May 10, 2021 23:01
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Captain Monkey posted:On the remnant terraforming thing: ty for your post
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May 10, 2021 23:02
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Inspired by the "this game is mean" conversations, when I saw archaeology sites for the first time in my current game, I had no-useful-trait scientists digging them up, and I sent someone boring through the gateway in my starting system. Does the ship always return hundreds of years older despite being gone less than a year? I switched the Fun Police to be xenophobic instead of authoritarian, and Police State instead of Efficient Bureaucracy. Having to murder the space amoeba made me very sad; I'm looking forward to going back to playing exclusively xenophiles. Why explore space if not to meet new friends? 
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May 11, 2021 00:35
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Also you people complaining about the mutated horrors unleashed by mysterious terraforming equipment are crazy, that outcome owns. When I first encountered that event, I did not assume that I'd need armies on the planet, but I did assume that everyone might die a gruesome death and moved most of the pops somewhere else first. You're reactivating equipment to terraform an entire planet in ways that you do not understand, using a process that was deliberately interrupted thousands of years ago for reasons that are not known. I would not expect open-palm slamming that button to go perfectly well The outcomes, including the negative ones, are all cool as hell and are minor setbacks, at worst.
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May 11, 2021 00:57
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That event is badly designed and yet flavorful. It can be both. Look up fail forward for why it is bad design.
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May 11, 2021 01:28
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QuarkJets posted:The outcomes, including the negative ones, are all cool as hell and are minor setbacks, at worst.
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May 11, 2021 02:19
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Losing a colony is minor?!? Without question: temporarily losing a colony is minor, yes. The event appears within a few years of colonization, so at worst you lose a few districts and any pops you foolishly didn't move before pressing the big red button with a skull symbol on it. If you get mutants then you can create some armies and go kill them. If your colony gets destroyed then you can make a new one If you don't want to roll the dice and risk something bad happening, then don't press the button, just dismantle the equipment. The flavor text literally talks about "instability" and interrupted alterations to the biosphere, why in the world would you expect only positive outcomes?
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May 11, 2021 02:56
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I'm skipping a few pages because people are seemingly mad about videogames, any highly recommended mods I should grab? There's a neat origins mod I'll snag but other than that any important ones?
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May 11, 2021 03:05
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 Are you loving kidding me, game?!? QuarkJets posted:Without question: temporarily losing a colony is minor, yes. The event appears within a few years of colonization, so at worst you lose a few districts and any pops you foolishly didn't move before pressing the big red button with a skull symbol on it. If you get mutants then you can create some armies and go kill them. If your colony gets destroyed then you can make a new one
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May 11, 2021 03:23
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Splicer posted:If you want something to be dark and full of the unknown then you need bad stuff to happen regularly enough for you to expect it. I wish Stellaris had an updated version of the random events that Alpha Centauri had. Some were always positive (bumper crops, more food yield for the next few turns!), some were negative (tidal wave hosed up your mines!) and some would go either way depending on what buildings you had in the nearby city (scary virus, but you have a hospital there so they captured it and you get some research points from analyzing it! or you don't have a hospital, and some pops are dead). I guess based on the discussion earlier about more powerful espionage missions some people here might disagree, but I think it would be rad if number didn't always inexorably go up. People might be less precious about their pops if there was some expectation that you're going to lose a few here and there. Maybe even a bunch. Maybe make it a toggle switch in game creation so that people who don't want the pleasure of repeatedly assassinating their genocidal neighbor's president won't have to worry about that happening to them as well 
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May 11, 2021 03:50
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