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it's not prestige tv if people dont hate the protags gf/wife for no reason
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May 13, 2021 02:33
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I mean I enjoy noticing inconsistencies as much as the next TVIV viewer. I just feel like this stuff is hyper focused on trying to make sense out of teenagers who are human and going to make mistakes and be emotional or selfish. As I said, it may be a writing slipup then that she said "weeks" or it could have been weird writing that she got so mad at him. I could still sorta see it working as like a "who cares about your secret identity dude, I already know you're Invincible just save people already don't bother with your dang costume" but it does seem less reasonable for sure. Its also possible she was being hyperbolic by saying "weeks ago!" but that doesn't feel very satisfying if it was literally that weekend.
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May 13, 2021 02:34
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Mr Interweb posted:can someone explain why it was okay for amber to be mad at mark for not telling her his secret, even though she was yelling at him for running away when the humanoid thing on the college campus attacked? There’s an offhand remark from Cecil that they found dna evidence in Darkblood’s detective office, Nolan used the gore on his suit to frame the demon detective.
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May 13, 2021 02:35
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Phenotype posted:Huh? When I see things like this I kinda wonder if you guys know how relationships work, or how people work. She really liked him, and she saw him nearly die on live TV. Maybe she went through a rational "he's fun to be with, but he always breaks his promises and he lies about where he's going and I can't be with him" beforehand, but people aren't robots and it doesn't mean the feelings she had for him are instantly extinguished and gone forever. "Oh my god he could have died" is going to stir up a ton of emotion, and it's not surprising that being scared to lose him might overwhelm the rational conclusion she came to the day before. She had already seen him almost die fighting the cyborg right in front of her to save her very life.
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May 13, 2021 02:37
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The nitpicks about timelines and people being idiots and the writers being bad is good and normal. This kicked off because homeboy was complaining about Amber being a champagne sjw and that's why she was being unreasonable or poorly written. Then the argument ran so long people forgot why it started.
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May 13, 2021 02:46
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If Amber wants to be such a hero why doesn't she stop working at the soup kitchen and go get nearly beaten to death by her dad like Mark does?
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May 13, 2021 03:19
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ruddiger posted:There’s an offhand remark from Cecil that they found dna evidence in Darkblood’s detective office, Nolan used the gore on his suit to frame the demon detective. but 1. nolan planned on planting the dna evidence after he found out and got mad that darkblood was snooping around and 2. why did he still keep it after planting the evidence?
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May 13, 2021 03:23
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while it is true that Amber is being "frustrating" and perhaps "irrational" with her being upset with Mark, I never got the feeling that she was upset because he was being a superhero and wouldn't tell her, it's more that he was just a lovely communicator in general. Mark doesn't ever give any real excuse beyond "I'm stuck doing a thing at a place for a time, I guess we can do a rain check?" and even then most of the time when she caught him in a lie he would just doubledown on whatever lovely excuse he had come up with. Considering that Amber is introduced with kicking a jackass in the balls who had also been bugging her mere moments before, I think it is fair to say that she has a decent amount of self-respect. She puts up with Mark's crap and lovely excuses because he's good-looking, a genuinely nice person, and values her but, as with many things, trust and respect is a two-way street and as the months have gone by, she finally decides that Mark hasn't been reciprocating the trust and respect she gives him. Again, I felt that the big thing that pissed her off with the campus attack was because Mark simply vanished without saying a single word. If William hadn't immediately noticed that Mark was Invincible I would not have been surprised if he also flew off the handle at him when he reappears because he didn't say a goddamn thing to anyone. He didn't say he was going to get help (something even Peter loving Parker remembers to do), he didn't tell them to hide, in fact it's actually Amber who takes the lead on getting the gang to start evacuating the area and then he just poofs while William is being attacked by the Reaniman. This, combined with the fact that the relationship was already on thin ice as Mark notes when he is talking to Eve before heading to the campus, really just goes to show that Amber wasn't really expecting the relationship to get better and just decided to also vent her frustration on him because, well, it's cathartic. Honestly, watching that episode again Amber's mannerisms show that she is very much on the outs with Mark, she's still giving him a chance but then he just fucks it all up with his conduct during the initial Reaniman attack. Hell, if we go with the belief that she starts piecing together that he's a superhero after the shelter no-show, I think it's fair to say that her tone towards him during the campus attack shows that she knows what he's capable of and is not impressed with his conduct during a crisis
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May 13, 2021 04:38
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Mr Interweb posted:but 1. nolan planned on planting the dna evidence after he found out and got mad that darkblood was snooping around and 2. why did he still keep it after planting the evidence? We see why when his wife takes the suit to the tailor - the age of the blood splatter on his suit indicated that he struck first.
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May 13, 2021 05:52
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The only weird thing about Amber is why she didn't dump Mark sooner. The entire time i was thinking "What does she see in this guy??"
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May 13, 2021 06:15
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Frionnel posted:The only weird thing about Amber is why she didn't dump Mark sooner. The entire time i was thinking "What does she see in this guy??" That Viltrumite sexual stamina
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May 13, 2021 06:18
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but for real, I'd actually enjoy reading a history of how the changes to Deb and Amber's storylines happened. It just feels like someone had plans and they got started and someone shut them down and this is what we got. It feels like what happened is we got a compromise storyline between what the person with ideas wanted and where the person in charge needed things to end up. I can mostly ignore the weird inconsistencies when watching but I'd just like to hear about how it happened.
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May 13, 2021 06:25
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I would assume it's because they wanted to end the season on the omni-man fight instead of ending it introducing the only other black character in the comics
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May 13, 2021 06:29
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Impossibly Perfect Sphere posted:I figured Cecil pretty much knew from the get-go and to admit otherwise would mean starting a war with OM before he's ready. Cecil straight up says he knew Omni-Man killed the Guardians but was holding back until he knew the reason for it. That's why he banishes Damien Darkblood for coming too close to finding out. This isn't subtext, it's just text.
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May 13, 2021 08:10
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Yeah I really don't see any of the issues with Amber that other people are raising. She's well within her rights not to be impressed by how Mark handled the campus thing and take it as a last straw. She's also within her rights to have a change of heart after seeing him utterly brutalised (way beyond any of the beatings he took before) by his own father. People are complicated.
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May 13, 2021 08:39
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Azhais posted:That Viltrumite sexual stamina The whole show was just to have secret product ad placement for Henley shirts.
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May 13, 2021 15:55
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stev posted:Yeah I really don't see any of the issues with Amber that other people are raising. She's well within her rights not to be impressed by how Mark handled the campus thing and take it as a last straw. She's also within her rights to have a change of heart after seeing him utterly brutalised (way beyond any of the beatings he took before) by his own father. People are complicated. 100% also my take. Feeling like Mark wasn’t respectful or honest is one thing, watching Mark get traumatized and beaten by his own insane father while the whole world watches is a truly unfathomable thing to have happen.
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May 13, 2021 16:06
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Jedit posted:Cecil straight up says he knew Omni-Man killed the Guardians but was holding back until he knew the reason for it. That's why he banishes Damien Darkblood for coming too close to finding out. This isn't subtext, it's just text. On first watch you don’t really notice, but once you know it’s coming, it’s pretty apparent Cecil knows as soon as he’s talking with Nolan in the hospital.
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May 13, 2021 18:08
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Impossibly Perfect Sphere posted:She had already seen him almost die fighting the cyborg right in front of her to save her very life. Kind of different than seeing him get liquified by his dad, who is also saying the absolute worst poo poo to him the entire time. She gave Mark tons of chances to come clean, and that situation with the cyborgs was the last chance. All she wanted was to be told the truth and stop being jerked around. Mark was a poo poo boyfriend the entire time. Why are you being so weird. When he finally did come clean, just look at the way he does it. Just expecting her to melt all over him regardless of all the neglect. I mean what do you want her to do, just worship the guy regardless of how he treats her? Kind of a toxic relationship, don't you think? Only SA could make volunteering at a soup kitchen instead of burning down a franchise restaurant a bad thing. WTF is going on here. stratdax fucked around with this message at 18:27 on May 13, 2021 |
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May 13, 2021 18:23
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Also let's be real his gf and best friend are about to be murdered and he runs away to change into his heroes costume. Will almost bites it because Mark has to keep up the lie.
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May 13, 2021 18:27
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stratdax posted:Kind of different than seeing him get liquified by his dad, who is also saying the absolute worst poo poo to him the entire time. Maybe I'm just trained by hero fiction to see keeping your identity secret (usually for the sake of loved ones) as like, a big deal that Mark not being honest about it is a very rock and hard place situation. That guy who was complaining about the soup kitchen stuff is being super weird, but I get people thinking Amber seemed a bit unreasonable with how she handled Mark trying to keep a secret identity.
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May 13, 2021 18:42
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Mark’s a “lovely boyfriend” because he’s processing all the trauma induced ptsd that comes with being a superhero. There’s a reason why they showed how badly mangled that old lady he tried to save was on his first outing. Whether Amber acknowledges his trauma or not is irrelevant. It’s like being mad at a veteran for waking up screaming from night terrors, or mad at the wife who has to live with it. It’s not because he’s an inconsiderate sleeper or because she’s selfish. It’s because he has a head full of hosed up memories and living with someone who has that is an ongoing process.
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May 13, 2021 18:44
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Nobody else has an obligation to sign up for that.
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May 13, 2021 18:48
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You're allowed to be mad at being woken up from someone's ptsd-induced night terrors and at the same time sympathize and try to wait for them to address how their life affects you. No person is an accessory.
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May 13, 2021 18:49
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This might be a stretch, but imagine for a moment that Mark is actually hiding a drug problem, and not being a superhero, and but otherwise his behavior is basically the same. Regardless of what he is choosing to lie about, he's going about it in a way that makes him come off as a shady piece of poo poo who DOES NOT RESPECT AMBER'S TIME.
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May 13, 2021 18:51
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Oxyclean posted:Because using a situation like that to test someone's honesty rather then being like "hey, I know your secret, go do your thing, it's cool." is kind of weird? Like, she clearly had some insight into why he wanted to keep it secret? There's no time to have a polite conversation when monsters are killing people. He took off, she shouted after him to come back. Its not like they went to a therapist together to talk about his super-hero status. Then after all that, she was mad that he felt a need to keep it from her when obviously these things are affecting her directly now. Y'all are still falling into this trap of post-facto analysis and looking at it all at once and being like "well why didn't you do something about this back then?" but human beings and time don't work that way. At each moment she had a reason, and the things changed over time. That's how human beings are. ruddiger posted:Mark’s a “lovely boyfriend” because he’s processing all the trauma induced ptsd that comes with being a superhero. There’s a reason why they showed how badly mangled that old lady he tried to save was on his first outing. And if you woke up with night terrors every night, but when your wife expressed concern you refused to talk about it, I would expect serious conflict in the relationship. This is serious "The ends justify the means" logic. "Its okay I lie to my SO because I'm an important person who saves lives" isn't really as good as you think it is. He absolutely does not "have" to lie to save lives. The two are not dependent upon one another. He could tell her, or he could dump her. The conflict of lying to someone because you think you're protecting them, but them being angry because they'd rather just know the truth and not liking that you decided for them and kept it from them, that's EXTREMELY reasonable and human and could have served as the plot for the entire season. It just didn't get enough screentime because Omni-man is JK Simmons. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 18:55 on May 13, 2021 |
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May 13, 2021 18:52
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It's not like they're married and having relationship problems as a result of him being a superhero. They're a new couple and he treats her like poo poo before they even have a chance to get close and build the sort of bonds that would survive that sort of conflict. Not to mention the fact that she has no idea why he's being such a prick to her. All he does is disappoint her and come up with a lie after the fact. Mark isn't failing to show up for dates because of any trauma, it's because he doesn't respect her or her time enough to have an honest conversation about the situation (and I don't mean telling her his identity).
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May 13, 2021 18:58
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Zaphod42 posted:And if you woke up with night terrors every night, but when your wife expressed concern you refused to talk about it, I would expect serious conflict in the relationship. Did you stop reading before this part? quote:living with someone who has that is an ongoing process. “Ongoing process” would indicate serious discussions and definitely therapy, sorry that I didn’t spell it out for you.
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May 13, 2021 18:59
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ruddiger posted:Did you stop reading before this part? Why are you being so rude about a cartoon? Chill man. Jeeze. This is not nearly as black and white as you are making it out, and if you'd be willing to have a conversation about it I can explain. If you don't want to talk about the show, why post in this thread? ruddiger posted:It’s because he has a head full of hosed up memories and living with someone who has that is an ongoing process. That isn't a blank check. There's going to be limits. If someone was in Vietnam does that mean you'd stay married to them and support them forever, even if after years they refused to do anything about it? Saying "its an ongoing process" doesn't mean someone else can't choose to walk away; maybe you aren't trying to help yourself and are only a toxic influence. Especially since they've just been dating for months and not married for years.
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May 13, 2021 19:02
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It all comes down to Debbie's "does that make you feel like a big man? Knowing you could hurt me?" It's the same lesson he needed to learn with Amber. He doesn't get to treat her however she wants and neglect her just because he's a hero, he needs to learn to respect her as a person. Otherwise he grows up to be Nolan 2.0, "she's more of a pet to me." If he can't do that, then he shouldn't be dating her! It's a Mark problem, not an Amber problem! But he's essentially abusive, saying how much her cares about her and then the next minute disappearing and lying to her. 5 months of that, and Amber had enough.
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May 13, 2021 19:05
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Zaphod42 posted:There's no time to have a polite conversation when monsters are killing people. He took off, she shouted after him to come back. Its not like they went to a therapist together to talk about his super-hero status. It's not post-facto analysis. People are just reading it from Mark's perspective where it seemed like he had a good reason to keep it secret, and the way Amber handled it felt, kinda harsh given what we saw Mark go through, and his feelings having to keep the secret.
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May 13, 2021 19:06
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Oxyclean posted:Maybe I need to rewatch the scene, but my friends and I's reflections on that were pretty much noticing that Mark was hesitating because he was in a situation where he had to slip away to avoid blowing his cover. There doesn't need to be a polite conversation, just "Mark, go do your Invincible thing!" rather then like, making that hard by acting like she didn't know? I dunno, If a cyborg is murdering my friends I'm probably going to be like "MARK DUDE HELP, STOP, COME BACK" not "heymarkIknowyou'reinvincibleitscooldon'tworryaboutyoursecretidentityjustgetinthere!" IDK, like, of course what you're suggesting could work too, but I just don't think "You didn't do the ideal behavior so you're wrong" is a fair judgement of Amber's actions here. These are all panicking teenagers. Which is a fair concern with secret identities in general that we don't really get to have a full conversation about. Like can you imagine if someone was in danger, so Superman ducks into a phone booth to change his clothes, and when he gets out the person is dead already? That conveniently never happens in a Superman story, but in an Invincible story that's par for the course. Analyzing those discrepancies is what this comic/show likes to do, no?
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May 13, 2021 19:08
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stratdax posted:It all comes down to Debbie's "does that make you feel like a big man? Knowing you could hurt me?" I've not read the comics so I feel like S2 will absolutely have some kind of "Eve and Mark hook up because Eve actually gets it and doesn't take it personally when Mark has to be Vince"
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May 13, 2021 19:09
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Bust Rodd posted:This might be a stretch, but imagine for a moment that Mark is actually hiding a drug problem, and not being a superhero, and but otherwise his behavior is basically the same. Regardless of what he is choosing to lie about, he's going about it in a way that makes him come off as a shady piece of poo poo who DOES NOT RESPECT AMBER'S TIME. In the comic Amber suspects Mark might be a drug dealer and even asks Eve about it
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May 13, 2021 19:10
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Bust Rodd posted:I've not read the comics so I feel like S2 will absolutely have some kind of "Eve and Mark hook up because Eve actually gets it and doesn't take it personally when Mark has to be Vince" It does help that she knows and he's talked to her about it before. But again I think its kinda lame that Mark's original inclination WAS to tell Amber and Eve of all people convinced him not to. She had good reasons but she absolutely torpedoed their relationship.
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May 13, 2021 19:11
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etalian posted:It's like the who's who for authors to pick if you combine both a woke liberal wine mom like worldview with being incredibility basic. Ha yeah what a loser, this (fictional, cartoon) teenager should be reading comics and fantasy novels like I did instead. I guess if a teen doesn't jump straight to Das Kapital after outgrowing the Babysitter's club she's a basic wine and cheese liberal or whatever.
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May 13, 2021 19:11
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stratdax posted:Ha yeah what a loser, this (fictional, cartoon) teenager should be reading comics and fantasy novels like I did instead. She read the Seance Dog comic while waiting in his room! Seance Dog spin off when?
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May 13, 2021 19:13
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Zaphod42 posted:I dunno, If a cyborg is murdering my friends I'm probably going to be like "MARK DUDE HELP, STOP, COME BACK" not "heymarkIknowyou'reinvincibleitscooldon'tworryaboutyoursecretidentityjustgetinthere!" But the point is Amber uses a streak of these sorts of things. I guess what sort of bothers me is knowing his secret by holding that back to "test" him? Like, it's not unreasonable for her to want him to be honest, but I don't think it's unreasonable to see it as kinda petty, particularly when the audience knows what Mark is getting up to.
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May 13, 2021 19:18
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Good Citizen posted:In the comic Amber suspects Mark might be a drug dealer and even asks Eve about it Think that was in the show too
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May 13, 2021 19:18
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ruddiger posted:She read the Seance Dog comic while waiting in his room! Really shoulda been Doctor Mange
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May 13, 2021 19:18
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