[Mafia]Wine in Front of All: Double the Pleasure, Double the Fun!

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > The Game Room > [Mafia]Wine in Front of All: Double the Pleasure, Double the Fun!

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AT-LOW: Mar 18, 2021; Battle routine, set!
Demon Summoning Program, execute!

Mr. Steak posted:

i think it's pretty obvious to figure out. but concluding im town because of it, and then responding the way he did to dy, makes him town

What is this attitude? oa is town for thinking you're town based on your bullshit? Should I take this as an implicit threat that you plan to call people who think your bullshit is scummy scum?

##vote Mr. Steak

It's long past time I called this bluff.

As much as I have my own theories as to which role you're implying, which role you actually are, and what your plan is, none of that actually matters because your actual role is NAI and you could be pulling the same strategy as town.

But if you're town, why did you bait the roleblock?

If the roleblocker cares about Memories of Murder, hammering like that is going to make you target #1, because it assures scum can't hide behind a hammer: by blocking you, they guarantee (barring third hand shenanigans) that either a positive result is generated or that no kill will happen and massive suspicion is generated on you.

Now, they could also just go with their #1 scumread, but you hammered and made sure all the thread knew it was strategy-related. You handed that path to the roleblocker on a silver platter. What town motivation is there for this?

This is what I have been saying since that night where I've been saying that the WAY you're doing this is scummy. The concept of hammering as town, especially if (as you stated recently) it outright doesn't affect your investigability, makes a lot of sense

But you keep cycling between divulging information completely unnecessarily and champing down on discussion of it, you act weird and dance around and make sure everyone knows that you're performing a strategy

Why not just do the thing? Why act this way?

So, you know why I haven't voted steak yet today, even though I've been saying that the way steak is doing this is scummy?

It's because steak is the absolute worst scum option to vote for today

Steak has showed his entire hand, has a not insignificant chance of being a good town role waiting for the right moment to go off, and most crucially has already hammered

(Does this make me a hypocrite for going after dy? Not really I don't think, dy hasn't really expressed any of this and and instead preferred to go "too bad we're never going to get steak!" and is in fact STILL doing this what the gently caress????)

What all of this means is that steak is a low priority in terms of scumreads. Steak clearly plans on fully claiming anyway, likely when he uses his ability. We should see what happens when he uses the ability, and work from there. Until then, we can focus on bigger scumreads (eg for me: dy), we can focus on scumreads who will have more informative flips (eg for the oa crew: oa, for whom a scum flip would have huge implications for sng's case, which makes it extremely weird to me that sng has repeatedly ignored my requests for an expansion on the case: shouldn't he want to get out as much information as possible now in case he's NK'd after an oa scum flip? I guess the names are all there, but is it an actual accusation of them all? If it is, why is it being framed simply as ammo in the oa case instead of "if I'm right that oa is scum, then I found the scumteam"?), we can look into non-Solus D1 cases like I wanted to, I mean hell seeing all these grandi votes is very exciting from that perspective even if I am less excited to jump on than I was at start of day

And again, most crucially of all: steak is now hammer position. If we're going to vote literally any other scumread we can just let steak hammer and not worry about hammer bullshit for the next night and day. The three factors (hand is shown, ability use will be alignment indicative, availability to hammer) made me feel like there was no pressing need to vote steak when there was such a decent chance he'd be town using a cool move to help us.

But then steak extended further and explicitly linked thinking he is town based on his prancing about with being town.

What is this? Why is THAT a thing? It's trying to push a narrative where sussing steak is bad because people should get that steak is town from his play

As much as I've said to myself that town could do everything that steak is doing, I feel like it's absolutely ridiculous to do all this stuff, tell everyone to think about it alone and not discuss it, and then start basing townreads on who says it's town

Steak is stalling and trying to set up a scenario where he can be as scummy as he likes, but because he's a) clearly going somewhere with this and b) calling outside discussion of it bad, he's still going to have time to mess with town before he gets got

This vote is still suboptimal: we would have to find a new hammerer, we won't make progress on the whole oa diatribe, etc.

But despite your theory talk re: scum informational vs. early apparent scum, sometimes, even if you don't get the most information out of it, the right move is just to vote where you see scum

It may not be optimal, but it's what's in my heart! Now, take my suboptimal vote!

~~##vote M~~ wait gently caress I already did this up top lol

Anyway, I leave you with this

Basically steak's entire deal here is that he's claiming a role that will let him help town while also hanging on to the hammerer position, yeah? And the partial claims and hatred of explicit guesses are very clearly signaling an intent to use that role at some point, yes?

Why would this steak so willingly make himself the objectively best roleblock target?

Sure, I can see at least one scenario where townsteak could do it and not screw up his own plan, in addition to the ones where scumsteak does it to gently caress up a town roleblocker

But calling people town for silently thinking, then calling this play town is maybe the biggest bullshit I have ever seen in this game of bullshit

# ? May 13, 2021 22:20

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# ? Apr 16, 2024 07:04

Mr. Steak: May 9, 2013; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

not gonna comment on any of that.

# ? May 13, 2021 22:26

Mr. Steak: May 9, 2013; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

##vote sng

# ? May 13, 2021 22:31

Mr. Humalong: May 7, 2007

AT-LOW posted:

What is this attitude? oa is town for thinking you're town based on your bullshit? Should I take this as an implicit threat that you plan to call people who think your bullshit is scummy scum?

##vote Mr. Steak

It's long past time I called this bluff.

As much as I have my own theories as to which role you're implying, which role you actually are, and what your plan is, none of that actually matters because your actual role is NAI and you could be pulling the same strategy as town.

But if you're town, why did you bait the roleblock?

If the roleblocker cares about Memories of Murder, hammering like that is going to make you target #1, because it assures scum can't hide behind a hammer: by blocking you, they guarantee (barring third hand shenanigans) that either a positive result is generated or that no kill will happen and massive suspicion is generated on you.

Now, they could also just go with their #1 scumread, but you hammered and made sure all the thread knew it was strategy-related. You handed that path to the roleblocker on a silver platter. What town motivation is there for this?

This is what I have been saying since that night where I've been saying that the WAY you're doing this is scummy. The concept of hammering as town, especially if (as you stated recently) it outright doesn't affect your investigability, makes a lot of sense

But you keep cycling between divulging information completely unnecessarily and champing down on discussion of it, you act weird and dance around and make sure everyone knows that you're performing a strategy

Why not just do the thing? Why act this way?

So, you know why I haven't voted steak yet today, even though I've been saying that the way steak is doing this is scummy?

It's because steak is the absolute worst scum option to vote for today

Steak has showed his entire hand, has a not insignificant chance of being a good town role waiting for the right moment to go off, and most crucially has already hammered

(Does this make me a hypocrite for going after dy? Not really I don't think, dy hasn't really expressed any of this and and instead preferred to go "too bad we're never going to get steak!" and is in fact STILL doing this what the gently caress????)

What all of this means is that steak is a low priority in terms of scumreads. Steak clearly plans on fully claiming anyway, likely when he uses his ability. We should see what happens when he uses the ability, and work from there. Until then, we can focus on bigger scumreads (eg for me: dy), we can focus on scumreads who will have more informative flips (eg for the oa crew: oa, for whom a scum flip would have huge implications for sng's case, which makes it extremely weird to me that sng has repeatedly ignored my requests for an expansion on the case: shouldn't he want to get out as much information as possible now in case he's NK'd after an oa scum flip? I guess the names are all there, but is it an actual accusation of them all? If it is, why is it being framed simply as ammo in the oa case instead of "if I'm right that oa is scum, then I found the scumteam"?), we can look into non-Solus D1 cases like I wanted to, I mean hell seeing all these grandi votes is very exciting from that perspective even if I am less excited to jump on than I was at start of day

And again, most crucially of all: steak is now hammer position. If we're going to vote literally any other scumread we can just let steak hammer and not worry about hammer bullshit for the next night and day. The three factors (hand is shown, ability use will be alignment indicative, availability to hammer) made me feel like there was no pressing need to vote steak when there was such a decent chance he'd be town using a cool move to help us.

But then steak extended further and explicitly linked thinking he is town based on his prancing about with being town.

What is this? Why is THAT a thing? It's trying to push a narrative where sussing steak is bad because people should get that steak is town from his play

As much as I've said to myself that town could do everything that steak is doing, I feel like it's absolutely ridiculous to do all this stuff, tell everyone to think about it alone and not discuss it, and then start basing townreads on who says it's town

Steak is stalling and trying to set up a scenario where he can be as scummy as he likes, but because he's a) clearly going somewhere with this and b) calling outside discussion of it bad, he's still going to have time to mess with town before he gets got

This vote is still suboptimal: we would have to find a new hammerer, we won't make progress on the whole oa diatribe, etc.

But despite your theory talk re: scum informational vs. early apparent scum, sometimes, even if you don't get the most information out of it, the right move is just to vote where you see scum

It may not be optimal, but it's what's in my heart! Now, take my suboptimal vote!

~~##vote M~~ wait gently caress I already did this up top lol

Anyway, I leave you with this

Basically steak's entire deal here is that he's claiming a role that will let him help town while also hanging on to the hammerer position, yeah? And the partial claims and hatred of explicit guesses are very clearly signaling an intent to use that role at some point, yes?

Why would this steak so willingly make himself the objectively best roleblock target?

Sure, I can see at least one scenario where townsteak could do it and not screw up his own plan, in addition to the ones where scumsteak does it to gently caress up a town roleblocker

But calling people town for silently thinking, then calling this play town is maybe the biggest bullshit I have ever seen in this game of bullshit

I didn't read any of this but I'm gonna quote it so it looks like I did

# ? May 13, 2021 22:35

Mr. Humalong: May 7, 2007

Sandwolf posted:

lol

Hum what�re your thoughts?

I started working on a giant vote analysis post but gently caress I'm only in this game for a day and I got a very slim chance of meeting my win con anyway

# ? May 13, 2021 22:36

ObamaAkbar.: Apr 7, 2009; DesiredPopulationMin = 3
DesiredPopulationMax = 19
AverageDeathsPerDay = 6
WeaponsUsed = 13

So not liking ilmucche as a lunch candidate either, honestly don�t see that much in their posts that jumps out at me.

Toal however seems to be flying under the radar.

Toalpaz posted:

I'm happy that solus is voting where he thinks he we should look for scum, it is helpful for town when he flips town.

First post I noticed that I didn�t like, �when he flips scum� in particular. Is it a scum slip? Maybe not but it definitely jumps out at me.

Toalpaz posted:

Top is pre vote, second is post vote. This just reads like a shifting fake opinion of the vig.

They try to corner dy. with this lame case. The two posts im question are two days apart and solus had been lurking hard, why wouldn�t someone change their opinion in that time? Feels like a forced case to me.

Toalpaz posted:

I am good with an ilmucche lunch. I think he's been unusually reserved with like meaningful opinions, compared to usual. I think he hasn't been as scum hunty as a town core ilmucche.

This is just after someone else votes ilmucche, it�s the first time toal mentions ilmucche as a lunch target.

Toalpaz posted:

##vote grandicap

That 'it looks like this as town this as scum' optics post is bad. Possibly so bad that scum would never talk like that in thread, but idk.

Another jump on someone who toal has never previously mentioned but just so happens to be suddenly drawing a bit of fire. Both of these feel like scum trying to find somewhere easy to push a lunch.

Add this together with toal just sort of floating around in the background (ironic for me to point out maybe but whatever). I�m starting to feel like my half-joking suggestion that scum are letting town get on with it while they laugh in the background could have some truth to it.

# ? May 13, 2021 22:36

mega dy: Dec 6, 2003

Mr. Humalong posted:

I started working on a giant vote analysis post but gently caress I'm only in this game for a day and I got a very slim chance of meeting my win con anyway

If it overlaps with the town's, why not just come out with it?

# ? May 13, 2021 22:39

ObamaAkbar.: Apr 7, 2009; DesiredPopulationMin = 3
DesiredPopulationMax = 19
AverageDeathsPerDay = 6
WeaponsUsed = 13

I won�t be around at deadline due to timezone, keeping my vote on SNG. If I�m lunched tomorrow and steak didn�t hammer me then obviously whoever did is scum or sabotaging town.

# ? May 13, 2021 22:44

Mr. Humalong: May 7, 2007

dy. posted:

If it overlaps with the town's, why not just come out with it?

It can overlap with anyone lol

I gotta pick 3 people and then state whether their faction will win or lose. If I get at least 2 out of 3 correct I win.

That's why I need the last member of the scum team to PM me so I can decide based on who you are. I know the rest of your team already, they contacted me posthaste. Don't be a spoilsport.

# ? May 13, 2021 22:44

CCKeane: Jan 28, 2008; my shit posts don't die, they multiply

ObamaAkbar. posted:

So not liking ilmucche as a lunch candidate either, honestly don�t see that much in their posts that jumps out at me.

Toal however seems to be flying under the radar.

First post I noticed that I didn�t like, �when he flips scum� in particular. Is it a scum slip? Maybe not but it definitely jumps out at me.

They try to corner dy. with this lame case. The two posts im question are two days apart and solus had been lurking hard, why wouldn�t someone change their opinion in that time? Feels like a forced case to me.

This is just after someone else votes ilmucche, it�s the first time toal mentions ilmucche as a lunch target.

Another jump on someone who toal has never previously mentioned but just so happens to be suddenly drawing a bit of fire. Both of these feel like scum trying to find somewhere easy to push a lunch.

Add this together with toal just sort of floating around in the background (ironic for me to point out maybe but whatever). I�m starting to feel like my half-joking suggestion that scum are letting town get on with it while they laugh in the background could have some truth to it.

Hmm. Good point with grand.

# ? May 13, 2021 22:47

mega dy: Dec 6, 2003

Mr. Humalong posted:

It can overlap with anyone lol

I gotta pick 3 people and then state whether their faction will win or lose. If I get at least 2 out of 3 correct I win.

That's why I need the last member of the scum team to PM me so I can decide based on who you are. I know the rest of your team already, they contacted me posthaste. Don't be a spoilsport.

Statistically you're probably a lot better off guessing at who is town than who is scum.

Who would you pick right now?

# ? May 13, 2021 22:48

CCKeane: Jan 28, 2008; my shit posts don't die, they multiply

Mr. Humalong posted:

It can overlap with anyone lol

I gotta pick 3 people and then state whether their faction will win or lose. If I get at least 2 out of 3 correct I win.

That's why I need the last member of the scum team to PM me so I can decide based on who you are. I know the rest of your team already, they contacted me posthaste. Don't be a spoilsport.

Oh I'm town. I hope that helps you.

# ? May 13, 2021 22:48

Grandicap: Feb 8, 2006

Mr. Humalong posted:

At least one of the scum team is in this list

Do you know this or do you think this?

# ? May 13, 2021 22:49

AT-LOW: Mar 18, 2021; Battle routine, set!
Demon Summoning Program, execute!

Somberbrero posted:

this vote spread is insane. no one is not voting, we have three candidates tied for first place at 3 votes.

loving hell I just checked the votes and we're here AGAIN but with a different configuration!

This game is awesome!

# ? May 13, 2021 22:52

Mr. Steak: May 9, 2013; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

oh wait gently caress, i wanted to vote sng because of his posting but i forgot hes a mason

# ? May 13, 2021 22:53

AT-LOW: Mar 18, 2021; Battle routine, set!
Demon Summoning Program, execute!

I know it's social so it doesn't count, but if this game were purely mechanical this is how you would know that it's balanced

# ? May 13, 2021 22:54

Hal Incandenza: Feb 12, 2004

Somberbrero posted:

We should vote merk out so he can focus on survivor.

##vote merk

Counterpoint, merk should be voted off survivor so he can focus on mafia.

# ? May 13, 2021 22:54

Mr. Humalong: May 7, 2007

dy. posted:

Statistically you're probably a lot better off guessing at who is town than who is scum.

Who would you pick right now?

Definitely not OA or SNG.

Probably would pick at this time:
Toal - They're playing to their usual town meta for me. I'm getting town vibes
merk - he lurked a lot but he has a good alibi and he did come out swinging today when he finally showed up. town
AT-LOW - typing a lot of words, suspicious of steak. I'm liking what I see. town

Unfortunately I have to pick either 2 winners and 1 loser or 1 winner and 2 losers. So I do have to probably figure out at least one scum before this day ends. There's nothing in my role PM that says I have to pick players still alive, so I guess I could just sandbag it and hope Solus/Binus's team wins.

Anyway I just noticed I don't pick until Night 3 so I get to read Night 2 and Day 3 before I make my picks. Godspeed and good luck.

# ? May 13, 2021 22:54

Mr. Humalong: May 7, 2007

Grandicap posted:

Do you know this or do you think this?

WOAH NICE ROLEFISHING, SCUMMO

# ? May 13, 2021 22:54

Mr. Humalong: May 7, 2007

CCKeane posted:

Oh I'm town. I hope that helps you.

# ? May 13, 2021 22:55

Mr. Steak: May 9, 2013; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

dy. posted:

Who would you pick right now?

more importantly, which team do you think will win?

# ? May 13, 2021 22:56

Mr. Humalong: May 7, 2007

Mr. Steak posted:

more importantly, which team do you think will win?

At this point? It's looking good for scum. Y'all are all turned around chasing your own tails today. Maybe town pulls it off, I honestly have no more knowledge of the setup than what is in the OP (that I didn't read).

# ? May 13, 2021 22:58

Mr. Humalong: May 7, 2007

I'd put scum at like 52% win chance right now, bump it up if there's another town lunch today

# ? May 13, 2021 22:59

merk: May 20, 2003; ##interact

dy. posted:

You're really starting to ping me with this stuff. You know what there is. Stop trying to act like him being town or scum has anything to do with me writing a long post about it.

Look, I honestly don�t. If there is a good steak case please hit me up with it.

I am taking this game in 10-15m increments instead of my usual constantly f5�ing the thread style.

# ? May 13, 2021 22:59

merk: May 20, 2003; ##interact

dy. posted:

I don't really think about the game like that. That's too many levels of conclusion-jumping without seeing a flip.

This is good though.

# ? May 13, 2021 22:59

Sandwolf: Jan 23, 2007; i'll be harpo

Mr. Humalong posted:

At this point? It's looking good for scum. Y'all are all turned around chasing your own tails today. Maybe town pulls it off, I honestly have no more knowledge of the setup than what is in the OP (that I didn't read).

this is p much my reading of the game lol

# ? May 13, 2021 23:00

merk: May 20, 2003; ##interact

Mr. Humalong posted:

It can overlap with anyone lol

I gotta pick 3 people and then state whether their faction will win or lose. If I get at least 2 out of 3 correct I win.

That's why I need the last member of the scum team to PM me so I can decide based on who you are. I know the rest of your team already, they contacted me posthaste. Don't be a spoilsport.

Pick me three times.

# ? May 13, 2021 23:00

merk: May 20, 2003; ##interact

If dy links to or posts a succinct, persuasive case on Steak, I am voting Steak.

If dy cannot, this is scum hiding in plain sight and I�m voting dy.

Dy cannot be this active town and this vocal with a vote this long without a case that I�ve seen.

# ? May 13, 2021 23:01

Mr. Steak: May 9, 2013; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

personally, i think the degree of varying, conflicting discussions today has been rife with info, maybe even more than average for a day 2. however, with deadline approaching we really do need to get our poo poo together. (mostly me!!)

# ? May 13, 2021 23:02

mega dy: Dec 6, 2003

merk posted:

If dy links to or posts a succinct, persuasive case on Steak, I am voting Steak.

If dy cannot, this is scum hiding in plain sight and I�m voting dy.

Dy cannot be this active town and this vocal with a vote this long without a case that I�ve seen.

Uuuuugggggghhhhhhhhhhh.

The problem with a big formal Steak case is that his individual posts don't really matter. There's not like, three posts I can just quote and say "look at this." It's a long-term trend of him clearly and rather openly not really trying to find scum.

I'll tell you what, I'll put together something if you agree to at least just skim his post history in general. I don't really like how you're foisting this entire thing on me.

# ? May 13, 2021 23:08

Grandicap: Feb 8, 2006

dy. posted:

Uuuuugggggghhhhhhhhhhh.

The problem with a big formal Steak case is that his individual posts don't really matter. There's not like, three posts I can just quote and say "look at this." It's a long-term trend of him clearly and rather openly not really trying to find scum.

I'll tell you what, I'll put together something if you agree to at least just skim his post history in general. I don't really like how you're foisting this entire thing on me.

How many games have you played with steak dy? Is this your first?
I am not saying to give him a pass because steak does have scum tells, but being a wild and crazy guy isn't one of them.

# ? May 13, 2021 23:10

Mr. Humalong: May 7, 2007

Yeah, Steak seems wild and crazy but he comes at the game with a consistent, internal logic.

it just doesn't resemble earth logic all the time

# ? May 13, 2021 23:12

mega dy: Dec 6, 2003

Grandicap posted:

How many games have you played with steak dy? Is this your first?
I am not saying to give him a pass because steak does have scum tells, but being a wild and crazy guy isn't one of them.

None.

There is no level of meta that will make me think he is not clearly scum. You guys are letting him hide behind this insane meta he's cultivated for himself.

# ? May 13, 2021 23:15

mega dy: Dec 6, 2003

I also worry that Hal is hiding behind his meta. But in a much quieter way.

# ? May 13, 2021 23:16

merk: May 20, 2003; ##interact

dy. posted:

Uuuuugggggghhhhhhhhhhh.

The problem with a big formal Steak case is that his individual posts don't really matter. There's not like, three posts I can just quote and say "look at this." It's a long-term trend of him clearly and rather openly not really trying to find scum.

I'll tell you what, I'll put together something if you agree to at least just skim his post history in general. I don't really like how you're foisting this entire thing on me.

##vote dy

# ? May 13, 2021 23:18

Mr. Humalong: May 7, 2007

I can't tell with Hal, yet.

# ? May 13, 2021 23:19

AT-LOW: Mar 18, 2021; Battle routine, set!
Demon Summoning Program, execute!

dy. posted:

None.

There is no level of meta that will make me think he is not clearly scum. You guys are letting him hide behind this insane meta he's cultivated for himself.

For what it's worth, as far as I'm aware Steak's scum meta is actually getting caught D1, and I was even there for it in one of the games I played

So I'm pretty sure Steak never gets the kind of meta free pass you're worried about

# ? May 13, 2021 23:20

Mr. Steak: May 9, 2013; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

it's really hard for me to justify voting for sandnavyguy, since i promised myself i would treat the masons as confirmed town (because in all likelihood they are, and a paranoia-free masonry is the bane of scum).

buuuuuut lets still look into his posts. this will be a semi-stream of consciousness post as i go and reread sng in context.

sandnavyguy posted:

Well. There�s a few things we can glean from [Solus's unsuccessful dayvig]. Grandi is either at least one shot BP or Solus is a faulty Vig. And no one should give Solus a gun from the cabinet lol.

this immediately strikes me as odd because sng's first instinct was to collate role information. that might be a townie instinct, but its hard to believe that is the *first* instinct a townie has.

sandnavyguy posted:

Yeah tbh I completely spaced on the fact firing cabinet doesn�t know which one does which, so the whole BP thing is uh, baseless.

he also immediately realized he made a mistake and corrected himself. this is really odd to me when i think deeper about sng's motivations in light of the first post. because regardless of alignment if his first instinct was to get role information, i would have expected him to have a better understanding of the roles in the game. no conclusion here, just commenting on how thats odd either way.

sandnavyguy posted:

Actually I�ll be honest, I agree with Keane this was my line of thinking cause really it�s a 1/5 shot that it kills the scumbro, 4:5 chance of making a performative bold bus between the two with no harm. And hell, if it did actually fire, they have a fairly solid town talking point that �I wouldn�t take the 1/5 risk as scum and it was a successful random hit yay aren�t I town?�

80% odds isn�t horrible for a successful solid bus, and is definitely a judgement call based on comfort, but I wouldn�t count it out.

That circular logic aside, I�m less enthused about them both being scum because Grandi didn�t lean on Solus as hard as I would have if I were trying to sell a big bus like that. This early on Day 1? It�d be a telenovella for at least a real time night.

i actually hadn't realized until this reread that sng posted maths poo poo about solus 2 days prior to his big vote post that everyone has been quoting. i'd say this actually makes him look better, if only in that the opinion seems to be a genuine one he had.

sandnavyguy posted:

Things are beginning to get circular on this point in the thread so I�m gonna drop my ##vote Solus

honestly I think it�s too high a liability to town to allow him to live, while there are benefits to his execution especially on Day 1 with limited information.

The method they are using (RNG) is anti-town at worst null at best, and roles not being indicative of alignment muddies the water even more.

So:

Hip shot=null
If RNG = null leaning scum
Or
If Lying about RNG = scummy

If scum:

Absolute town death D2-3

If town rough 9-11/14 chance town death because of RNG

If he�s lunched and flips town:

We lose a one shot random vig with low impact to overall strategy as an Armorer is possibly present and there is a power role heavy game, the at low connection and concerns over their positive leaning take on Solus is cleared up, and we can put the gambit business to bed with Grandi.

If he�s lunched and flips scum:

They lose a free kill, the arguments and scrutiny of At low and Grandi becomes highlighted, and interactions with nearly every poster can be analyzed as each person has commented on this issue in some fashion, which can�t be said for any other lunch candidate.

In the absence of any big upheavals, I�m happy with my vote.

lets talk about this post. i agreed with him at the time that solus's behavior was scummy, though i disagreed that he was the best vote. in hindsight, i dont think it looks any better or worse tbh. though maybe that was exactly what sng was going for when he made a case based on meta-arguments like this? like, there arent really opinions that can be held against him later. is that what everyone has been saying about him this whole time? i think it just finally clicked with me.

sandnavyguy posted:

And math IS content. It�s logically staking a position based on probability and risk, which is a core part of this game.

lmao, i would *maybe* say that maths talk is valuable for town to understand in certain scenarios (being generous) but i would certainly not call it "content". this is another point against sng in the "no real opinions" court

[day 2 time]

sandnavyguy posted:

##vote Sandwolf

After the Solus flip in light of him being town, Sandwolf actions are scummy to me. They were on board with Solus being scum leaning, and was actively thinking Solus was an issue, but then when there started to actually be a push for him to get voted, he changed his views that suddenly oh no he must be town. Based on his thought process pattern and the timing of his tune change, I think he knew Solus would get voted and decided to fall back and let us vote for him, then shake his head at all of us who did vote.

His primary reason is apparently he feels that Solus� return seemed genuine and townlike, but I disagree, it was a null action at best, there was literally no other way to turn the tide of the vote regardless of alignment, and saying �yep I�m convinced he must be town� reads to me as too easy a persuauion for normally cautious Town-Wolf.

this is a bad vote but i wouldn't be able to articulate why. i just think sandwolf is town and based on a cursory reread of sandwolf's posts on solus, they seem like the thoughts progressed naturally. on the other hand though (i truly hate that im waffling on this so much) this completely invalidates any of the earlier cases of "not saying enough opinions" because now he's stating his opinions (even when risky) loud and clear.

im getting lazy but lets pull one more sng quote......

sandnavyguy posted:

I agree with Sandwolf.

Look, if I�m being realistic, my role is already out there so it�s not like I�m special or hiding anything with night actions or whatever, and if it comes down to it if I get lunched or NK�d town won�t really be that impacted losing an outed unconfirmed mason townie. But I really don�t see mucche as scummy in mason chat or in total with their posts in here, so I dislike the theory being batted around that my flip will suddenly make mucche look worse or vice versa when we are town, and then town be at risk of losing two townies to a false dichotomy.

Bottom line: I see mucche as town, regardless of when I flip town as well.

it took me a loong time to parse what the hell this post is trying to say, idk why
"it�s not like I�m special or hiding anything with night actions or whatever" if you were scum you would certainly be hiding stuff with night actions. i think thats the first thing that confuses me here.
but i see what he's saying. it's kinda weird that he's saying it (maybe frustrated that his role has been outed?) but he's basically saying he trusts OA *so* much that he would rather die first so that mucche is saved...?

im really dont feel strongly about sng being scum, but i think grandi is low-hanging fruit, and oa is town. and not confident a vote swing can happen (based on the day so far), but i guess i wouldnt rule it out. i'd definitely vote dy if people are up for that, but its just a matter of will enough people show up and vote him by deadline?

so yeah, im going to keep my vote on sng. ideally, i will be the one to hammer later, but for now i want people to see an accurate votecount so yeah

# ? May 13, 2021 23:33

Somberbrero: Feb 14, 2009; ꜱʜʀɪᴍᴘ?

Mr. Steak posted:

lets talk about this post. i agreed with him at the time that solus's behavior was scummy, though i disagreed that he was the best vote. in hindsight, i dont think it looks any better or worse tbh. though maybe that was exactly what sng was going for when he made a case based on meta-arguments like this? like, there arent really opinions that can be held against him later. is that what everyone has been saying about him this whole time? i think it just finally clicked with me.

hrrrrrrngh

# ? May 13, 2021 23:36

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# ? Apr 16, 2024 07:04

Somberbrero: Feb 14, 2009; ꜱʜʀɪᴍᴘ?

reading the op, hammering looks scummy? it creates a false positive from memories of a murder and party host if you're town so it's useful for scum to hammer. i don't understand what isn't being said about steak and presumably that conclusion was reached by other players with public information.

# ? May 13, 2021 23:42

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > The Game Room > [Mafia]Wine in Front of All: Double the Pleasure, Double the Fun!

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