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Snow Cone Capone
Jul 31, 2003


I thought it was neat that they used the T-Rex near the start of VIII as a real-world lesson on status effects, since Quistis outright tells you "this thing will gib you but it's weak to blind" before you go in

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mandatory lesbian
Dec 18, 2012

Twelve by Pies posted:

FF12 has levels underneath the enemy's name so you can generally tell like with the T Rex where it's level 70-something and you are level 1 that the developers aren't seriously trying to make you figure out how to fight it (especially since it's non hostile unless you actively attack it). If there's enemies that are about 20 levels higher than your party, like with the werewolves at the entrance to Ozmone Plain it's almost always a sign to avoid that area since it's meant for later, though you can always try your luck with them since progression is usually barred by something else anyway (like how Ozmone Plain is blocked by a fallen tree trunk until the rains).

The T Rex is supposed to get you used to the idea that hey, sometimes there's really strong monsters around so either be prepared for a hard fight or run away, and the first one you see is non hostile so that it can show you this without putting you in danger (unless you want to gently caress around and find out).

Well sooooo sorry 12 year old me didnt see the level

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

Snow Cone Capone posted:

I thought it was neat that they used the T-Rex near the start of VIII as a real-world lesson on status effects, since Quistis outright tells you "this thing will gib you but it's weak to blind" before you go in

Ooh, yeah, that's another one, I forgot about 'the developers expect you to exploit a weakness they may or may not have adequately articulated'.

Twelve by Pies
May 4, 2012

Again a very likpatous story

mandatory lesbian posted:

Well sooooo sorry 12 year old me didnt see the level

Oh no this wasn't in response to you, it was more a response to Cleretic's post about how putting strong enemies somewhere can be misinterpreted by a player as "I must be doing something wrong" rather than "I'm not meant to be here yet," but I feel FF12 is pretty up front about strong monsters mostly being a way of saying "This area is meant to be tackled later." That's why it's kind of fun to do the Necrohol of Nabudis early, since you're clearly not meant to be there but if you have the right abilities you can get some really neat stuff before the game expects you to (most notably the Zodiac Spear in vanilla XII).

HD DAD
Jan 13, 2010

Generic white guy.

Toilet Rascal
I have very fond memories of my best friend watching me play XII, and both of us screaming as I ran through the Necrohol at like, level 25.

mandatory lesbian
Dec 18, 2012

Twelve by Pies posted:

Oh no this wasn't in response to you, it was more a response to Cleretic's post about how putting strong enemies somewhere can be misinterpreted by a player as "I must be doing something wrong" rather than "I'm not meant to be here yet," but I feel FF12 is pretty up front about strong monsters mostly being a way of saying "This area is meant to be tackled later." That's why it's kind of fun to do the Necrohol of Nabudis early, since you're clearly not meant to be there but if you have the right abilities you can get some really neat stuff before the game expects you to (most notably the Zodiac Spear in vanilla XII).

Ah, my bad, im just ornery cuz i have literally never noticed the enemies have levels and i replayed 12 like, 6 months ago -_-

zenguitarman
Apr 6, 2009

Come on, lemme see ya shake your tail feather


Crossing a bridge in Dragon Warrior because you give no fucks.

lobster22221
Jul 11, 2017

dracula vladdy AF posted:

I really like the Entites in particular since they have a very distinct "this is abnormal and wrong and you should avoid it" vibe, particularly if you see one hovering around in the distance for the first time. That and I just like angry giant glowing orbs of energy in principle.

They scary factor is that they aggro if you cast spells, which can catch you by surprise even after you see their levels.

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 31, 2003


Cleretic posted:

See, my problem with this is that there's a lot of potential explanations for when you get smashed in the face by something far too strong for you at the time. Are the developers:

-Trying to tell you to come back later?
-Expecting you to stealth past?
-Expecting you to find some neat setpiece weapon nearby to blow things apart?
-Balancing with the assumption you did more sidequests/grinding than you did?
-Just really lovely at game design?

Because I've hit all of these at some point or another. Gating an area by raw encounter strength only works if you trust that's what the developers are doing.

1, 3 and 4 are not mutually exclusive, and I'd like to see your examples of 2 and 5, because I can't remember ever having to stealth an area in an FF game without a character explicitly telling me "sneak through here"


Cleretic posted:

Ooh, yeah, that's another one, I forgot about 'the developers expect you to exploit a weakness they may or may not have adequately articulated'.

Quistis literally tells you to run away the first time you encounter one, dunno how much clearer that can be

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

Snow Cone Capone posted:

1, 3 and 4 are not mutually exclusive, and I'd like to see your examples of 2 and 5, because I can't remember ever having to stealth an area in an FF game without a character explicitly telling me "sneak through here"

I haven't seen them all in Final Fantasy, it should be said. With 2 and 5 (and 3) I was actually thinking of moments in Bethesda games.

Bravely Default II did give me a moment of 'turns out you're underlevelled' that I thought was a 'sneak through this', too, if that counts for something.

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 31, 2003


Cleretic posted:

Bethesda games.


well that's your problem right there

cirus
Apr 5, 2011
In Last Story I figured out a geometry exploit that let me snag a NG+ weapon on my first playthrough by getting some extremely high level tigers stuck on a corner.

Who can forget the Xenoblade spider?

Barudak
May 7, 2007

FFX and FFX-2 are up on game pass.

Wellllll guess its time to laugh again.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.

Snow Cone Capone posted:

I thought it was neat that they used the T-Rex near the start of VIII as a real-world lesson on status effects, since Quistis outright tells you "this thing will gib you but it's weak to blind" before you go in

She actually suggests Sleep, probably because the only chance you have for Blind up to that point is a single Draw Point (you don't have Diablos yet to refine the actual spell), but you can Draw Sleep from Grats, which are in the Training Center itself.

ApplesandOranges fucked around with this message at 06:46 on May 13, 2021

Kanfy
Jan 9, 2012

Just gotta keep walking down that road.

mandatory lesbian posted:

Well sooooo sorry 12 year old me didnt see the level

I haven't played 12 in a thousand years, but as I recall you need Libra to see enemy stats and otherwise it's all just ???? including the levels.

Kanfy fucked around with this message at 06:32 on May 13, 2021

Lotus Aura
Aug 16, 2009

KNEEL BEFORE THE WICKED KING!
Yeah, enemy names are colour-coded if you don't have Libra active but they went with a red/yellow/green outline (based entirely on level difference, the least relevant thing) making it hard to notice and completely useless if you're colourblind.

AttackTheMoon
Jul 4, 2015


Evil Fluffy posted:

The best early game (and mid game tbh) grind in FF2 is to fight the captains in Fynn once you have Minwe because not only do they have a couple of useful drops but if you stick Firion and Guy in the front row and keep reviving them while the team wears down the captain with level 2-3 spells (and the mp to cast them a bunch) you'll gain stats and HP like crazy and you'll also end up boosting your attack spells to 4-5 really fast. You can also dual wield shields on guy/firion and have Minwe buff them (I think Minwe gets an evasion spell? Protect stacks on itself too iirc) and they'll avoid a shocking amount of damage from the captains because evasion matters far more than actual defense does and dual shields with a bunch of levels in shields is a fast route to tons of evade.


Getting 2-3 levels in unarmed and an attack spell of your choice will give you plenty of damage to get through the first dungeon or two in FF2. Unarmed is *extremely* good early on in FF2 and I don't think it really falls off until you have haste/berserk/aura (and a few levels in them) so that dual wielding weapons becomes much better damage.

Don't wear armor (with a few exceptions) because the game's agility and evasion system is dumb as hell and you want to be as unencumbered as possible so that you have a better chance to get agility after fights. Agility directly affects flee success rates too iirc, so if you don't raise your agility it will be impossible to flee from fights for the majority of the game in addition to you always acting last.

Oh good advice ty!

Mega64 posted:

It also means Maria is the best person to have up front since she has the highest starting agility.

Lol she started in the back so I left her there. She has 20 HP.

Evil Fluffy
Jul 13, 2009

Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.

cirus posted:

In Last Story I figured out a geometry exploit that let me snag a NG+ weapon on my first playthrough by getting some extremely high level tigers stuck on a corner.

Who can forget the Xenoblade spider?

Or XCX where you have the level 70+ ultrafauna just chilling next to NLA and if you're dumb enough to hit one they step on you for 5-digit damage.

HORSE-SLAUGHTERER
Nov 11, 2020

H O R S E - S L A U G H T E R E R
it was apparently time for FFXV again


prevents toad

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



HORSE-SLAUGHTERER posted:

it was apparently time for FFXV again


prevents toad
I have eaten many club sandwiches in my life and have never been turned into a Toad, so that checks out.

man nurse
Feb 18, 2014


I just realized for the first time that the ballroom scene in FF 8 is taking place in the cafeteria but with different angles and lighting.

Asterite34
May 19, 2009



man nurse posted:

I just realized for the first time that the ballroom scene in FF 8 is taking place in the cafeteria but with different angles and lighting.

FF8, more than any other Final Fantasy game, accurately captures the experience of high school

Electric Phantasm
Apr 7, 2011

YOSPOS

man nurse posted:

I just realized for the first time that the ballroom scene in FF 8 is taking place in the cafeteria but with different angles and lighting.

:aaa:

Gologle
Apr 15, 2013

The Gologle Posting Experience.

<3
why the gently caress are there male viera wtf is this bullshit ff14

Mega64
May 23, 2008

I took the octopath less travelered,

And it made one-eighth the difference.
I’m surprised Zell shows up for the dance rather than try to rummage around in the food prep to find the hot dogs.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.

man nurse posted:

I just realized for the first time that the ballroom scene in FF 8 is taking place in the cafeteria but with different angles and lighting.

The question is, why is there a balcony in the cafeteria? Which is on the first floor?

Mega64 posted:

I’m surprised Zell shows up for the dance rather than try to rummage around in the food prep to find the hot dogs.

Honestly say what you will about Zell's hotheadedness but he's a surprising stickler for the rules. There's a reason the oh-so-cool rebel Seifer calls him a chicken-wuss.

HD DAD
Jan 13, 2010

Generic white guy.

Toilet Rascal
My favorite thing is Zell being a low-key history turbo nerd.

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 31, 2003


Gologle posted:

why the gently caress are there male viera wtf is this bullshit ff14

they look awesome and they promised lady hrothgars eventually too

e: they've also gradually removed most gender-locking on gear so you can be a big buff dude in a pretty dress if you so choose

Gologle
Apr 15, 2013

The Gologle Posting Experience.

<3
im going to become an edgy scythe wielder and literally zenos cannot stop me

Electric Phantasm
Apr 7, 2011

YOSPOS

ApplesandOranges posted:

The question is, why is there a balcony in the cafeteria? Which is on the first floor?

It makes a lot more sense when the garden is flying.

Mega64
May 23, 2008

I took the octopath less travelered,

And it made one-eighth the difference.
Flying high school with cafeteria balcony and make-out spot guarded by dinosaurs

Terper
Jun 26, 2012


Gologle posted:

im going to become an edgy scythe wielder and literally zenos cannot stop me
I genuinely believe absolutely nothing would make him happier than you doing that.

Countblanc
Apr 20, 2005

Help a hero out!

Snow Cone Capone posted:

they look awesome and they promised lady hrothgars eventually too

e: they've also gradually removed most gender-locking on gear so you can be a big buff dude in a pretty dress if you so choose

still waiting on them making the krile outfit gender neutral. it's not even particularly feminine!

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Gologle posted:

why the gently caress are there male viera wtf is this bullshit ff14
male viera have always existed. theyre mentioned explicitly in the ff12 ultimania and are explained there. i believe a couple random NPCs in the viera village also mention them. theyve always existed.

jokes
Dec 20, 2012

Uh... Kupo?

They are too handsome to be represented in a video game until now.

Help Im Alive
Nov 8, 2009

I wonder what kind of spike there'd be in people playing healer if the edgy scythe job had been the next healing class instead (necromancer??)

thetoughestbean
Apr 27, 2013

Keep On Shroomin

jokes posted:

They are too handsome to be represented in a video game until now.

They needed the power of the PS5 to bring you these handsome bunny boys

Mega64
May 23, 2008

I took the octopath less travelered,

And it made one-eighth the difference.
It’s not until this current gen that there’s been enough horsepower to properly render male Viera asses.

jokes
Dec 20, 2012

Uh... Kupo?

Are these floppy eared bunny menbois the culmination of teraflop technology??

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Mega64
May 23, 2008

I took the octopath less travelered,

And it made one-eighth the difference.
I'm pretty sure this is.

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