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Unsinkabear
Jun 8, 2013

Ensign, raise the beariscope.





Elmnt80 posted:

"I don't need to be told I suck at driving, I already know it! Thats why I lean on driver aides instead of figuring out how to remove distractions from my vehicle and learning how to drive properly!" :pseudo:

Yep, that's obviously what I meant, because these are mutually exclusive things and it is impossible to do both. :jerkbag:

E: I think I owe Motronic an apology... I didn't appreciate the tone but he at least made what he thought was a valid and helpful point, and he dropped it when I asked. This is just circle-jerking around an obvious straw man at this point. I give up.

Unsinkabear fucked around with this message at 18:24 on May 16, 2021

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Unsinkabear
Jun 8, 2013

Ensign, raise the beariscope.





Whoops, re-quoted instead of editing :cripes:

silence_kit
Jul 14, 2011

by the sex ghost
Only trust your driving reflexes. Automotive radar will never help you.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

pokeyman posted:

Another part of this calculation is your opportunity cost of paying up front. If you kept that money for a year or two, what would it earn if you e.g. invested it as retirement savings?

Yeah that's exactly what I'm trying to reason out, but with the periodic draw down to make payments. Maybe what I actually need is to repurpose a retirement savings calculator :v:

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Anime Deviant

silence_kit posted:

Only trust your driving reflexes. Automotive radar will never help you.

Musk : only trust your vision, radar will never [TRUCK NOT DETECTED]

Fermented Tinal
Aug 25, 2005

by Pragmatica

Unsinkabear posted:

Yep, that's obviously what I meant, because these are mutually exclusive things and it is impossible to do both. :jerkbag:

E: I think I owe Motronic an apology... I didn't appreciate the tone but he at least made what he thought was a valid and helpful point, and he dropped it when I asked. This is just circle-jerking around an obvious straw man at this point. I give up.

How is it an obvious strawman circlejerk? Please explain.

Also, I drove on average 300km a day until recently and have gotten one ticket and been in one not-at-fault accident (rear-ended while at a stop light) in the decade I've been a driver. I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't make blanket statements that include me, a provably not-terrible driver, as the reason for your poor driving.

silence_kit
Jul 14, 2011

by the sex ghost
It would definitely not be posting in good faith to move the goalposts while everybody in the thread is circle-jerking around the straw man.

Loan Dusty Road
Feb 27, 2007

skipdogg posted:

Howdy sir, resident Ford homer, and Taurus SHO owner of 7 years here. I have a 2013 SHO.

Decided to buy it! Thanks again for your input. Im likely to do the Gearhead tune down the road but Ill try to hold out for a while. I love the sleeper aspect.

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Anime Deviant
Just curious if anyone's had any positive or negatives to say about the 2017 Volt.

Carvana's throwing crazy money for my wife's Sonic and it's awful tempting.

skipdogg
Nov 29, 2004
Resident SRT-4 Expert

Loan Dusty Road posted:

Decided to buy it! Thanks again for your input. I’m likely to do the Gearhead tune down the road but I’ll try to hold out for a while. I love the sleeper aspect.



Congrats! I have the same color and wheels. Its a pretty good dad mobile

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Unsinkabear posted:


No sensor is perfect but it's still an objectively great thing to have for when a vehicle in front of you slams on their brakes unexpectedly while you're checking a mirror, fixing your GPS, etc. If that's not a thing that happens to you regularly, I envy you. It has saved me several times because pre pandemic I drove a ton, and drivers in Florida (especially the Tampa Bay Area) are notoriously awful. Maybe I would have avoided those collisions on my own without the sensor. Maybe I wouldn't have. I'm not interested in finding out, nor in arguing about this one.
This really, really isn't normal. Please don't try to fool yourself into thinking it is. Millions of miles will be drive today without these sensors without crashing into anyone. Almost everyone's parents drove them from the hospital in a car without this technology and didn't get in an accident.
Yes, this is becoming a dog pile. It's becoming a dog pile because it isn't correct. It you are having your collision avoidance system activating, its either malfunctioning or you're not paying attention. These systems are fine but they are not a crutch for paying attention. When you're driving you have one job, to drive. Not adjusting the GPS, not adjusting the radio, not checking out the progress on that new McDonalds being built next to the road you're on.

FilthyImp posted:

Just curious if anyone's had any positive or negatives to say about the 2017 Volt.

They're good cars. They drive better than a prius. If your driving pattern fits their battery range, they are a super good vehicle. If you are regularly driving 300mi, a prius is probably more practical as it has better FE once the battery drains.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22
I hope that you are taking concrete steps (classes, etc) to improve your driving, and you're not just thinking real hard about making it better.

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?
... and/or go see your doctor and maybe try some medication for your ADD.

Guinness
Sep 15, 2004

I don't even know how you could feasibly rely on FCW, even if it worked 100% of the time (it doesn't). At least in my 2021 car with all the latest assist tech, the automatic braking doesn't work above 18mph. Above that it only blinks and beeps at you, and "assists" if you are already on the brake pedal by increasing pressure a bit. By the time it triggers it's basically already too late, it's just going to try to help make an already-happening accident slightly less bad.

The system kind of pisses me off because the only time it activates for me is false alarms like someone merging or turning in a weird way.

Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005





MrOnBicycle posted:

... and/or go see your doctor and maybe try some medication for your ADD.

This was my read of the situation. Seriously, might be worth a chat if you can get to a doctor.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


My experience with FCW is it saved my rear end once late at night when the guy in front of me didn't have working brake lights and the car noticed him slowing down before I did. All people are bad drivers, relatively speaking. Doesn't mean we shouldn't all try to be better drivers, but the instrumentation is meant to augment your abilities not replace them.

Internet Explorer posted:

This was my read of the situation. Seriously, might be worth a chat if you can get to a doctor.

Medication isn't a silver bullet for ADD and being on low doses of amphetamines for years fucks you up. That being said, if you can't manage your disease in some way, you're disabled and shouldn't be driving.

Gangringo
Jul 22, 2007

In the first age, in the first battle, when the shadows first lengthened, one sat.

He chose the path of perpetual contentment.

All this talk about the SHO and how cool it is had me looking at them, and all I could think is "man that's awesome, but I really need a wagon, I wish they made one"

Turns out they do! The Flex AWD with the Ecoboost is essentially a Taurus SHO wagon.

Currently seriously shopping them.

skipdogg
Nov 29, 2004
Resident SRT-4 Expert

The Ford Explorer in Sport trim is pretty much the same vehicle as well. We had a 2014 and a 2017.

Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005





KillHour posted:

Medication isn't a silver bullet for ADD and being on low doses of amphetamines for years fucks you up. That being said, if you can't manage your disease in some way, you're disabled and shouldn't be driving.

I don't think anyone said it was. Someone said "maybe get some medication," and both of us said try to see a doctor. Sometimes easier said than done in the US, but yeah. Agreed with the general consensus that if your collision avoidance stuff is going off with any sort of frequency, it might be time to look into that root cause.

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?

KillHour posted:

Medication isn't a silver bullet for ADD and being on low doses of amphetamines for years fucks you up. That being said, if you can't manage your disease in some way, you're disabled and shouldn't be driving.

Internet Explorer posted:

I don't think anyone said it was. Someone said "maybe get some medication," and both of us said try to see a doctor. Sometimes easier said than done in the US, but yeah. Agreed with the general consensus that if your collision avoidance stuff is going off with any sort of frequency, it might be time to look into that root cause.

It isn't, but can do wonders for many patients with ADD/ADHD. Should be monitored closely as well, but I mean if you have bad enough ADD that you can't drive safely you really are a candidate for all the patient information and "therapy" classes as well as potentially getting medication. There are alternatives to amphetamines as well (even if they aren't always as effective). If one of my patients came and told me what that poster told me I'd likely tell them to stop driving, and if they continued I'd have to have their license revoked until they've done the above and proved that they can drive. It sucks, but at the same time can't be risked.

Unsinkabear
Jun 8, 2013

Ensign, raise the beariscope.





luminalflux posted:

I think Ive had the FCW trigger once on the three years Ive had it that was a legit situation (someone pulling out into my lane from a stopped offramp lane while I was doing speed of traffic). First couple of times it triggered I was definitely a distracted driver and used that as a wake up call to stop fiddling with poo poo while in traffic and instead rely on Siri

It's this. It went off a few times when I first got the car, and since then I've made dramatic changes to my habits, and it has not gone off in over a year until this month, when it went off due to someone else's actions and reminded me it exists. But having had it go off and prevent any collision ever (even just those old ones) is rattling enough that I want to keep the tech in my next vehicle. I don't trust myself (or anyone else) to be flawless and as I mentioned in my first post, safety features are my primary concern in any vehicle.

I'm only answering this because the dogpile has continued without my input for a page and a whole day, and I'd like the thread to move on so I can at least go back to lurking the answers to other people's questions and learning more about the market. There are perfectly fine cars that have this feature, and I'd like the thread's help looking at those at some point (Edmunds has Souls that I can stretch my budget to, but FCS isn't a feature that it lets you sort by even on the years and trims that have it standard, so I don't know how to find cars that have it without calling every single listing). But I shouldn't have to defend that request for help this hard, let alone against this level of attack from this many people. I have already taken the steps to be a better driver that many of you are describing and taking pretty big leaps to assume that I haven't. One of those steps was finding a good nonstimulant medication, although that really isn't the car thread's business. There is nothing that you need to fix here.

Unsinkabear fucked around with this message at 19:08 on May 17, 2021

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


Internet Explorer posted:

I don't think anyone said it was. Someone said "maybe get some medication," and both of us said try to see a doctor. Sometimes easier said than done in the US, but yeah. Agreed with the general consensus that if your collision avoidance stuff is going off with any sort of frequency, it might be time to look into that root cause.

I know; I just have first hand experience with it and wanted to call it out because it's a common misconception. It's entirely possible OP is already seeing a doctor and attempting to manage their disease with exercises and coping mechanisms (or even medication - they shouldn't have to feel like they need to tell us that). It's also completely possible that OP is in reality a pretty safe driver but is still worried about it - being aware of being easily distracted at least puts them in the top 50% of drivers in my book; above those who are easily distracted but think they're perfect drivers.

Or maybe they're a menace to society and go through cars like tic tacs but they drive anyways because LOL imagine not driving in most of America. Hard to tell over the internet.

... What were we talking about again?

MrOnBicycle posted:

It isn't, but can do wonders for many patients with ADD/ADHD. Should be monitored closely as well, but I mean if you have bad enough ADD that you can't drive safely you really are a candidate for all the patient information and "therapy" classes as well as potentially getting medication. There are alternatives to amphetamines as well (even if they aren't always as effective). If one of my patients came and told me what that poster told me I'd likely tell them to stop driving, and if they continued I'd have to have their license revoked until they've done the above and proved that they can drive. It sucks, but at the same time can't be risked.

lol there's no way you're for real

bird with big dick
Oct 21, 2015

Maybe hes the person that rear ended me and broke my neck is that you Lindsay youve got a lot of nerve posting here after what you did

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007



I feel for you because it sucks to be put on blast especially for a medical thing by bunch of randos on the internet. We're just so bored of recommending Priuses to everyone :(

Unsinkabear
Jun 8, 2013

Ensign, raise the beariscope.





bird with big dick posted:

Maybe hes the person that rear ended me and broke my neck is that you Lindsay youve got a lot of nerve posting here after what you did

You caught me. We weren't sure if it was really broken or you were running a con... I had to check!

(Seriously though that sounds awful, sorry that happened.)

KillHour posted:

I feel for you because it sucks to be put on blast especially for a medical thing by bunch of randos on the internet. We're just so bored of recommending Priuses to everyone :(

Thanks, I appreciate that and your initial post a lot. But I basically asked you to recommend me a Prius. I did this to myself. :cripes:

Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005





Unsinkabear posted:

It's this. It went off a few times when I first got the car, and since then I've made dramatic changes to my habits, and it has not gone off in over a year until this month, when it went off due to someone else's actions and reminded me it exists. But having had it go off and prevent any collision ever (even just those old ones) is rattling enough that I want to keep the tech in my next vehicle. I don't trust myself (or anyone else) to be flawless and as I mentioned in my first post, safety features are my primary concern in any vehicle.

I'm only answering this because the dogpile has continued without my input for a page and a whole day, and I'd like the thread to move on so I can at least go back to lurking the answers to other people's questions and learning more about the market. There are perfectly fine cars that have this feature, and I'd like the thread's help looking at those at some point (Edmunds has Souls that I can stretch my budget to, but FCS isn't a feature that it lets you sort by even on the years and trims that have it standard, so I don't know how to find cars that have it without calling every single listing). But I shouldn't have to defend that request for help this hard, let alone against this level of attack from this many people. I have already taken the steps to be a better driver that many of you are describing and taking pretty big leaps to assume that I haven't. One of those steps was finding a good nonstimulant medication, although that really isn't the car thread's business. There is nothing that you need to fix here.

Glad to hear you had some safe learning experiences. Certainly, we've all been there. I think there are certainly lovely dogpiles, and some of this may be that, but a lot of times the discussion is for the sake of other people reading it and not just you. Maybe someone else reading this sees the discussion and goes "wow, I really should be more careful" or "maybe I do need to check in with a doctor about ADD/ADHD." Easier said that done for sure, but I wouldn't take offense to it.

MrOnBicycle posted:

If one of my patients came and told me what that poster told me I'd likely tell them to stop driving, and if they continued I'd have to have their license revoked until they've done the above and proved that they can drive. It sucks, but at the same time can't be risked.

It sounds like you're a doctor, and this is over text in a car forum, so we can all just assume best intentions and lack of context, but please do be careful taking away people's ability to drive. In the US that can be absolutely devastating and I'd assume not having a job is probably worse for your patients than what the OP described.

Internet Explorer fucked around with this message at 19:22 on May 17, 2021

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?

KillHour posted:

lol there's no way you're for real

Hey that's the way it is here. You need permission from a doctor to drive if you have certain medical conditions or ADD/autism. You also have a duty to make sure people who aren't fit to drive don't drive if you discover this.

When it comes to patient education that's the first step, but if patients with ADD need more help there is nothing wrong with trying amphetamines or one of the other treatments. No idea where you are getting your hate for the treatments from, but it's life changing for many patients who suddenly can function enough to have a decent quality of life.

Maybe it isn't as bad as Unsinkabear made it seem, but if they believe they have a problem and are admitting that they have to rely on something as unreliable as forward collision systems (especially in a used older car with first gen stuff) then there might be a problem.

Anyway, this is super off topic by now. I concur with the Prius recommendation.

Internet Explorer posted:

Glad to hear you had some safe learning experiences. Certainly, we've all been there. I think there are certainly lovely dogpiles, and some of this may be that, but a lot of times the discussion is for the sake of other people reading it and not just you. Maybe someone else reading this sees the discussion and goes "wow, I really should be more careful" or "maybe I do need to check in with a doctor about ADD/ADHD." Easier said that done for sure, but I wouldn't take offense to it.


It sounds like you're a doctor, and this is over text in a car forum, so we can all just assume best intentions and lack of context, but please do be careful taking away people's ability to drive. In the US that can be absolutely devastating and I'd assume not having a job is probably worse for your patients than what the OP described.

Yeah I keep forgetting that the US is super car-centric and you need it bad. It's just the way it is here, and I understand that people get triggered by suggesting taking people ability to drive away. To be clear, I've never met a patient with ADD / autism etc that I've had to send in papers to have their license revoked yet and it would take a lot of consideration before doing so. But there is a responsibility to consider it.

Also Unsinkabears last post made it clear that it was all blown out of proportion. Which obviously would have been made clear IRL.

MrOnBicycle fucked around with this message at 19:35 on May 17, 2021

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?
drat quote is not edit.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


MrOnBicycle posted:

Hey that's the way it is here. You need permission from a doctor to drive if you have certain medical conditions or ADD/autism.

Lol what? You need a waver to drive with ADD where you are? That would never fly here.

Edit: FCW and lane departure and all the gizmos are good. People who say "you should just be a good alert driver all the time" are up their own rear end and probably don't realize how bad they are at driving. Very few people are saying "my car has these safety features so let's watch a movie instead of paying attention!" In reality, people are not seeing people next to them and merging unsafely or not noticing a potential accident all the time because they get away with it 99% of the time until they suddenly don't. People have blind spots and people don't turn their head enough and sometimes you're too distracted by the idiot who just cut you off to notice the person next to you trying to merge. It's all good to say "pay attention when you drive" but don't let that lead you down the road of "and then you won't need the nannies"

KillHour fucked around with this message at 19:43 on May 17, 2021

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?

KillHour posted:

Lol what? You need a waver to drive with ADD where you are? That would never fly here.

Yep. But really only if you don't have a license already and are applying for permission to start drivers ed. Also need check eyesight etc. In 99% of cases it's not a problem, but sometimes the distractability is just too great and gets dangerous. I've yet to meet someone that doesn't get the waiver.
Can't join the police (at all) or become a pilot neither.

luminalflux
May 27, 2005



KillHour posted:

Lol what? You need a waver to drive with ADD where you are? That would never fly here.

MrOnBicycle is also in a country where you if you do your driving test on a car with an automatic gearbox, you have a restriction on your license that you can only drive slushboxes.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."
The best part about banning anyone with MH concerns for things like the police is you encourage people to not get treatment and get the people with untreated issues. Its hella cool.
Wait, what forum was this?

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


Thanks for reminding me to look into getting a pilots license tho. It's on my bucket list.

Welcome to ADD airlines where our motto is "hey that cloud looks like a duck"

KillHour fucked around with this message at 19:53 on May 17, 2021

Unsinkabear
Jun 8, 2013

Ensign, raise the beariscope.





Is it a bad idea to buy something like a Honda Fit which has been discontinued in the US? How much is that going to affect parts availability and cost of ownership?

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

Unsinkabear posted:

Is it a bad idea to buy something like a Honda Fit which has been discontinued in the US? How much is that going to affect parts availability and cost of ownership?

Parts will be available forever. They may have to be shipped from somewhere other than the US eventually, but Honda sold millions of them so there's going to be plenty of parts available locally for a long time.

Hell, you can still buy parts for a '32 Chevy.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Unsinkabear posted:

Is it a bad idea to buy something like a Honda Fit which has been discontinued in the US? How much is that going to affect parts availability and cost of ownership?

Generally no.
If the car company ceases to exist like Daewoo, this can be more on an issue on low volume vehicles. But on large volume vehicles or companies where they still sell cars in the US, NBD.

LionArcher
Mar 29, 2010


Okay thread. I've bounced around a lot but I think I found something, just running by it's good.

a 2012 Lexus CT200H with 116K miles on it. New tires, clean title and car fax comes back two owners with all service records by Lexus and then the person selling it privately for $9.5K. I'm looking tomorrow at it and the owner agreed to let me take it to my shop for a PPI. I'd say that's a pretty good deal form what I've seen, and I'm aware it's not the sportiest car, (it's a nicer Prius basically). Aside from the battery, is there anything else I should be looking for when I check it out?

DildenAnders
Mar 16, 2016

"I recommend Batman especially, for he tends to transcend the abysmal society in which he's found himself. His morality is rather rigid, also. I rather respect Batman.”
Might not be relevant to purchasing one perse, but if you ever have to change a tire on one of those, they can be an absolute bitch to get off. Idk if has anything to do with the hybrid system but the couple of times I've helped people change the tires on them I've had to really wack at the wheel before it came off.

DildenAnders fucked around with this message at 05:35 on May 18, 2021

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


DildenAnders posted:

Might not be relevant to purchasing one perse, but if you ever have to change a tire on one of those, they can be an absolute bitch to get off. Idk if has anything to do with the hybrid system but the couple of times I've helped people change the tires on them I've had to really wack at the wheel before it came off.

That's just that legendary Lexus engineering tolerance :smugdog:

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IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





Unsinkabear posted:

Is it a bad idea to buy something like a Honda Fit which has been discontinued in the US? How much is that going to affect parts availability and cost of ownership?

Aside from what's already been said: it's a platform mate to the HRV that is staying, and the most common parts are not going to be unique to it.

The Fit sold in large enough volumes here that aftermarket companies are still going to keep making parts for it for a long time, and most parts suppliers will keep inventory of those parts for a similarly long time.

It's not like because they still make a new Fit, that would have anything to do with parts availability for older generations. FCA still makes Jeep Wranglers and will continue to do so for approximately eternity because they print money. But there are plenty of parts for my 2002 Jeep Wrangler that I can't buy new OEM anymore, because FCA wants to sell new Wranglers, not parts to cheap asses like me.

The absolute worst case scenario nearly any desirable car will get to in this day and age, is to the point where anything that isn't an oil filter or a spark plug has to come from a shop specializing in your car. A Fit has a long, long, long time before that's the case.

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