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Flying Zamboni posted:I don't like The West Wind and it's easy to see the way the political stuff in it reflects current day problems in the democratic party but I agree that it's not responsible for it. It's a show influenced by stuff that was already and has remained a problem. I think it's clear The West Wing is a echo chamber scenario where then 90s liberals influenced the show, the show amplified their worst traits, and the next gen of liberals learned from those traits. Obama admin members straight up discuss taking inspiration from the show or treating their jobs in the actual White House as being like the TV show, and clearly from their actions they misunderstood the nature of power and politics especially when confronted with McConnell's GOP and the Tea Party. I think you're right about the Chapo method of media criticism but in the case of The West Wing there's evidence in the form of actual memoirs and statements by Obama staff members.
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May 19, 2021 14:43
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TrixRabbi posted:I think it's clear The West Wing is a echo chamber scenario where then 90s liberals influenced the show, the show amplified their worst traits, and the next gen of liberals learned from those traits. Obama admin members straight up discuss taking inspiration from the show or treating their jobs in the actual White House as being like the TV show, and clearly from their actions they misunderstood the nature of power and politics especially when confronted with McConnell's GOP and the Tea Party. Culture is recursive. There's almost never a clear case of media influencing reality or vice versa, it's typically a feedback loop between the two.
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May 19, 2021 14:47
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:Culture is recursive. There's almost never a clear case of media influencing reality or vice versa, it's typically a feedback loop between the two. Sure but it's inarguable that the Obama administration would've been much more effective if they had consciously seen their roles as akin to characters on Sons of Anarchy instead of The West Wing.
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May 19, 2021 14:58
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It seems weird to prescribe the influence to a TV show and not their day to day lives, the other shows they watch, the books they read, the people they surround themselves with. Like whichever Republican it was that would argue in favour of torture because of 24. 24 didn't make him think that way, he just liked 24 because it showed him something that he already thought and he was able to point at a very popular TV show and say see, it can be done for good. Not to mention that whatever ideological wisdom the show imparted on people would have been obliterated after no time at all in politics.
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May 19, 2021 15:18
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Maybe it’s wrong to way West Wing influenced the politicians themselves (although I think TrixRabbi is right on the money personally), but it’s certainly influenced regular people into thinking that it’s what left-wing politics should be. Thinking that having the moral high ground is far more important than anything else and that grandstanding is hugely effective.
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May 19, 2021 15:26
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me and a friend were talking about Sorkin the other day and we were trying to figure out why he reuses that "and I'm never sick at sea" line over and over again and where he got it from, and I realized it's because he's a big Gilbert & Sullivan nerd and that's a line from the HMS Pinafore lol
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May 19, 2021 15:29
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The West Wing sucks but I don't see why everyone's so mad about the influence it had on politics when we have garbage right wing shows like 24 out there writing legal decisions by proxy.
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May 19, 2021 15:35
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Can’t speak for anyone else but I’m not really mad about it. I enjoy Sorkin’s writing on a surface-level, like it’s just fluff to me. I even rewatched Studio 60 last year for some godforsaken reason
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May 19, 2021 15:52
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Escobarbarian posted:Can’t speak for anyone else but I’m not really mad about it. I enjoy Sorkin’s writing on a surface-level, like it’s just fluff to me. I even rewatched Studio 60 last year for some godforsaken reason Matthew Perry deserved better.
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May 19, 2021 16:01
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DrVenkman posted:Matthew Perry deserved better. Turns out the show was rigged from the start
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May 19, 2021 16:04
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DrVenkman posted:Matthew Perry deserved better. Did he?
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May 19, 2021 16:09
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I watched Shane last night because it's leaving Criterion's streaming service at the end of the month. Holy moly I hate that stupid kid so much. I very much enjoyed Palance making GBS threads on the confederates, and just generally he was great. Other thoughts... first two thirds of the movie was gorgeous because Technicolor, last act was just dark as hell and much less pretty. It was good, but I was a bit disappointed overall. I hoped for more than I got. Other westerns that are leaving the site at the end of the month that I need to watch - The Wild Bunch, Sergeant Rutledge, and Buck and the Preacher.
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May 19, 2021 16:29
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I watched the John Carpenter written western El Diablo last night. I used to watch it all the time as a kid, it doesn’t quite hold up (way too long and Anthony Edwards is a terrible lead) but it’s got a great supporting cast and a couple of cool scenes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOCakZSHljI
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May 19, 2021 16:50
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Lurdiak posted:I edited a trailer for a video game I made over the weekend for the Toronto game Jam. Editing counts as film-making, right? The trailer rules and the game looks awesome for something that I assume you made within 48 hrs. Unfortunately we have to talk about why Sorkin is bad for the next 3 pages but you should definitely post about this in games if you haven't already
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May 19, 2021 16:52
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Lurdiak posted:The West Wing sucks but I don't see why everyone's so mad about the influence it had on politics when we have garbage right wing shows like 24 out there writing legal decisions by proxy. People get more upset about things they expect better from.
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May 19, 2021 17:02
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DrVenkman posted:It seems weird to prescribe the influence to a TV show and not their day to day lives, the other shows they watch, the books they read, the people they surround themselves with. Like whichever Republican it was that would argue in favour of torture because of 24. 24 didn't make him think that way, he just liked 24 because it showed him something that he already thought and he was able to point at a very popular TV show and say see, it can be done for good. That was Supreme Court Justice Anthony Scalia, (may he rest in hell). Another damning thing about Sorkin, at least in terms of television, is the one show he didn't re-use a bunch of plotlines from Sportsnight in is also his worst show by a huge loving margin (Newsroom).
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May 19, 2021 17:04
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Lurdiak posted:The West Wing sucks but I don't see why everyone's so mad about the influence it had on politics when we have garbage right wing shows like 24 out there writing legal decisions by proxy. Because the reason people on the right are able to get away with the heinous poo poo they do is because the people who ostensibly agree with us and could stop it won't, because they were so heavily influenced by West Wing and want to seek compromise.
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May 19, 2021 17:07
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The Klowner posted:The trailer rules and the game looks awesome for something that I assume you made within 48 hrs. Unfortunately we have to talk about why Sorkin is bad for the next 3 pages but you should definitely post about this in games if you haven't already I already posted it in games, no one cared because it wasn't about japanese teenagers going on dates and reinforcing gender norms. I really like how the game shook out, but I should point out I had a whole team of talented people working with me, I never could've made something this cool on my own in such a short time.
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May 19, 2021 17:15
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Lurdiak posted:I already posted it in games, no one cared because it wasn't about japanese teenagers going on dates and reinforcing gender norms. hahaha I can’t tell if this is a Tim Rogers reference or just a general knock on goon interests
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May 19, 2021 17:26
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ruddiger posted:I watched the John Carpenter written western El Diablo last night. I used to watch it all the time as a kid, it doesn’t quite hold up (way too long and Anthony Edwards is a terrible lead) but it’s got a great supporting cast and a couple of cool scenes. I never heard of this. I always appreciate a middling 90s HBO western. Have you seen The Last Outlaw?
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May 19, 2021 17:27
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Lurdiak posted:I already posted it in games, no one cared because it wasn't about japanese teenagers going on dates and reinforcing gender norms. Oh I wanted to say, I tried it and really dig the style. A little hard for me, but I think it's just because I suck at videogames now. When I have a little more time I'll give it a proper go.
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May 19, 2021 17:28
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Skwirl posted:Oh I wanted to say, I tried it and really dig the style. A little hard for me, but I think it's just because I suck at videogames now. When I have a little more time I'll give it a proper go. Thanks for the kind words. We didn't exactly have time to balance it, but since there's infinite retries and only 7 stages, I think most people can clear it if they keep at it.
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May 19, 2021 20:09
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Sorkin my own dick.
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May 19, 2021 20:12
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Lurdiak posted:I already posted it in games, no one cared because it wasn't about japanese teenagers going on dates and reinforcing gender norms. post it in the imp zone
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May 19, 2021 20:52
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X-Ray Pecs posted:His big competition in the primary is Eric Greitens, a Navy SEAL and out former governor, who was forced to step down after people found out he did sex crimes. Democrats think they can beat him, so I can’t wait until they pump a bunch of money into his campaign only to watch him get bulldozed by the guy who was a hair’s breadth away from accidentally shooting his wife. I wish I could be shocked but our government is a rudderless ship crewed by deviants and sociopaths. People elected Dan loving Crenshaw to public office. Jordan7hm posted:I watched Shane last night because it's leaving Criterion's streaming service at the end of the month. Holy moly I hate that stupid kid so much. I very much enjoyed Palance making GBS threads on the confederates, and just generally he was great. Other thoughts... first two thirds of the movie was gorgeous because Technicolor, last act was just dark as hell and much less pretty. It was good, but I was a bit disappointed overall. I hoped for more than I got. I'm pretty sure the Wild Bunch is on HBO Max. And by the way, if you have HBO Max you should watch Doom Patrol.
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May 19, 2021 21:17
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Speaking of revisionist Westerns, is First Cow one of those, or is it something distinct?
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May 19, 2021 21:47
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pospysyl posted:Speaking of revisionist Westerns, is First Cow one of those, or is it something distinct? First Cow is very distinct, and very good. I strongly recommend watching it, just be ready for it to be sloooooow.
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May 19, 2021 21:56
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This poster is so dope, I've never seen it before. https://twitter.com/mitchorner/status/1395026880034660359?s=19
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May 19, 2021 22:02
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Alec Eiffel posted:Sorkin my own dick. Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip? How bout SPF 60 on my Sunburnt Dick?!
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May 19, 2021 22:11
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I don't like movies where someone immediately starts berating me about how smart and or rich they are, and how what they're involved in is a really big deal and they're looking at me the whole time trying to gauge if I'm sufficiently impressed. So I don't care much for Sorkin stuff.
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May 19, 2021 22:22
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DrVenkman posted:This poster is so dope, I've never seen it before. https://twitter.com/mannfacts/status/1389760733907410950?s=21 I’d watch the poo poo out of this.
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May 19, 2021 23:11
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I don’t think the west wing influenced or compelled real politicians at the time do be neoliberal shitheads, because that’s silly, their IRL self-interests did that. See also, blaming 24 for the Iraq war or whatever. But both of these show are pretty blatant propaganda which is what people are reacting to. You could press the argument that it’s stupid to take a “2021 mentality” to propaganda from a decade or two ago (as though that were a thing one could just turn off), but why bother looking back at anything at all then, if not with a critical/historical eye? And the reason, I suppose you could argue, that it’s worth doing now is because while the politicians at the time may not have been explicitly influenced by it, the people watching it at the time who are in politics now may have been.
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May 20, 2021 01:38
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lmao jk everyone in american politics is an 8000 year old made of scarabs
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May 20, 2021 01:39
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ruddiger posted:https://twitter.com/mannfacts/status/1389760733907410950?s=21 Michael Mann needs to get his poo poo together and release a director's cut of The Keep, or really any cut.
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May 20, 2021 01:41
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Do y'all think Bulworth holds up? I was thinking it does but my politics have shifted quite a bit to the left since the last time I saw it and I've generally gotten less easy to please by just being presented with basic viewpoints I agree with.The Klowner posted:post it in the imp zone Ok I did that and everyone ignored it anyway lol.
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May 20, 2021 02:09
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Lurdiak posted:Do y'all think Bulworth holds up? I was thinking it does but my politics have shifted quite a bit to the left since the last time I saw it and I've generally gotten less easy to please by just being presented with basic viewpoints I agree with. I haven't seen it in over a decade probably, but it might. The romance with a very young Halley Barry is probably a lot more icky than I remember though. But It's Warren Buffet.
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May 20, 2021 02:37
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Skwirl posted:I haven't seen it in over a decade probably, but it might. The romance with a very young Halley Barry is probably a lot more icky than I remember though. But It's Warren Buffet. I mean, I dunno how old her character is supposed to be but she was 32 when that movie was made. That lady has always looked way younger than she is. I mean yeah that's still a significant and probably gross age difference but it's not like she's a teenager.
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May 20, 2021 02:40
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Lurdiak posted:I mean, I dunno how old her character is supposed to be but she was 32 when that movie was made. That lady has always looked way younger than she is. I mean yeah that's still a significant and probably gross age difference but it's not like she's a teenager. Again, haven't seen it in forever, but I thought she was a lot younger than 32 when I did see it. I'm pretty sure I was younger than 32 and I thought she was younger than me.
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May 20, 2021 03:02
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Yeah I was shocked to find out she was born in the 60s.
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May 20, 2021 03:06
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Skwirl posted:I haven't seen it in over a decade probably, but it might. The romance with a very young Halley Barry is probably a lot more icky than I remember though. But It's Warren Buffet. 
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May 20, 2021 05:55
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