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tag yourself I'm sokoto
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May 25, 2021 21:13
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I like how decentralised states are just vague outlines with a name on
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May 25, 2021 21:18
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Huh, I always heard that Africa was a matter of the Europeans drawing completely arbitrary lines on a map, turns out the pre-colonial societies already lined up exactly!
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May 25, 2021 21:24
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Reveilled posted:Huh, I always heard that Africa was a matter of the Europeans drawing completely arbitrary lines on a map, turns out the pre-colonial societies already lined up exactly! The only really straight lines I can see there are in the desert areas, where it makes perfect sense for a border to just be a straight line.
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May 25, 2021 21:27
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t hose on map shipping lanes tho...
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May 25, 2021 21:54
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Reveilled posted:Huh, I always heard that Africa was a matter of the Europeans drawing completely arbitrary lines on a map, turns out the pre-colonial societies already lined up exactly! It'd be neat if that was an implemented mechanic. I don't know how it'd be handled by the engine, but basically you start out with organic provinces that make sense for the region, and then greater powers just start drawing vertical lines where they don't make sense. Bonus points: Apply the same mechanic to Europe, so that if things work out differently for African powers, they can split up Europe into nice square shapes.
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May 25, 2021 22:01
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:It'd be neat if that was an implemented mechanic. I doubt it would work in the engine. Paradox games have a pretty hardcoded province map, and remaking it on the fly would likely cause all sorts of issues. HOWEVER! The reddit post made a comment about being able to break apart States, so that certain provinces are no longer part of the same state they started the game as. So you could have the provinces stay the same, but allow a colonial power to arbitrarily redraw State borders. This would have the same general outcome of states and countries being organized to extract the most value for colonial overlords at the expense of... everything else. I don't know if this is possible and/or in the game, but it seems much more doable than changing the actual base-level provinces
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May 25, 2021 22:24
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bold of them to set the game in the kill six billion demons universe. i hope tom is getting some royalties
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May 25, 2021 22:30
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I really really like how the map has neat little city names now instead of lots of large, awkwardly curved province names like EU4 and CK3. It looks so much more appealing and easy to read.
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May 25, 2021 22:40
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Lanfang appears to be a playable nation, might be a fun/challenging start for a SEA republic.
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May 25, 2021 22:40
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Looks like a united Japan (at the moment anyway)... maybe a civil war mechanic for the Boshin war?
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May 25, 2021 22:52
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Can the game be modded to model how Serbia is the most awesome country in the world with the greatest history? I was astoundingly ignorant of the glory of Serbia until I played some mods that corrected the various inaccuracies of Serbian history.
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May 25, 2021 22:54
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The Narrator posted:Looks like a united Japan (at the moment anyway)... maybe a civil war mechanic for the Boshin war? Why would Shogunate Japan not be united? It had basically been united and at peace (and prospering which is an important element of why and how Japanese modernization and industrialization was possible and so rapid) with a very strong central government in Edo (which I'm pretty sure was the largest city in the world until London overtook it as the industrial revolution got going) (edit!) for more than 200 years. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 23:33 on May 25, 2021 |
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May 25, 2021 22:57
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What is Paradox trying to hide in Australia, every promo screenshot of the map just so happens to be framed so you can't see it 
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May 25, 2021 23:20
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Crazycryodude posted:What is Paradox trying to hide in Australia, every promo screenshot of the map just so happens to be frames so you can't see it It's so you don't notice they forgot to add New Zealand
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May 25, 2021 23:20
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It's where the Jan Mayen hyper-empire is centered.
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May 25, 2021 23:23
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Randarkman posted:Why would Shogunate Japan not be united? It had basically been united and at peace (and prospering which is an important element of why and how Japanese modernization and industrialization was possible and so rapid) with a very strong central government in Edo (which I'm pretty sure was the largest city in the world until London overtook it as the industrial revolution got going). Japanese history during the period is a little complex. The Shogunate while powerful, is kinda more like if you had the Holy Roman Empire with the Emperor as a figurehead and Wallenstein controlling the government. IIRC you had dozens if not over a hundred feudal domains that were vassals and the modernist/restoration faction and the shogunate faction in the Boshin War were made up of these feudal domains. The Shogun's influence had waned considerably due to the opening up of Japan to foreigners. You could use something similar to the V2 China mechanic with the subnations to reflect this as an example. Having Japan start unified in the base game is more of a contrivance to make running Japan convenient for the player but isn't accurate.
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May 25, 2021 23:24
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The map looks a lot nicer in those shots. Also, the Boshin War irl had fewer casualties than like, three Fall of the Samurai TW battles will have. Like 5000 killed. Please don't add it if it's going to end up a giant multi-year civil war every time like how it's impossible for anyone to take England by the end of 1066 in CK3. Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 23:27 on May 25, 2021 |
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May 25, 2021 23:24
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Raenir Salazar posted:Japanese history during the period is a little complex. The Shogunate while powerful, is kinda more like if you had the Holy Roman Empire with the Emperor as a figurehead and Wallenstein controlling the government. IIRC you had dozens if not over a hundred feudal domains that were vassals and the modernist/restoration faction and the shogunate faction in the Boshin War were made up of these feudal domains. The Shogun's influence had waned considerably due to the opening up of Japan to foreigners. It's a LOT more accurate than depicting independent nations instead of a unified Japan. The Shogunate was highly centralized, as can be shown by how swiftly the Boshin War was handled and the Restoration began.
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May 25, 2021 23:26
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Crazycryodude posted:What is Paradox trying to hide in Australia, every promo screenshot of the map just so happens to be framed so you can't see it Remember the Hansa LP? 
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May 25, 2021 23:27
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Raenir Salazar posted:Japanese history during the period is a little complex. The Shogunate while powerful, is kinda more like if you had the Holy Roman Empire with the Emperor as a figurehead and Wallenstein controlling the government. IIRC you had dozens if not over a hundred feudal domains that were vassals and the modernist/restoration faction and the shogunate faction in the Boshin War were made up of these feudal domains. The Shogun's influence had waned considerably due to the opening up of Japan to foreigners. I say don't split it up unless you need to do it by event for a civil war. The US isn't split into states and territories subject to the federal government (which was alot weaker vis-a-vis the states at this point in history than it was coming out of the ACW and later on in the 20th century) prior the US Civil War either.
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May 25, 2021 23:32
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Raenir Salazar posted:Japanese history during the period is a little complex. The Shogunate while powerful, is kinda more like if you had the Holy Roman Empire with the Emperor as a figurehead and Wallenstein controlling the government. IIRC you had dozens if not over a hundred feudal domains that were vassals and the modernist/restoration faction and the shogunate faction in the Boshin War were made up of these feudal domains. The Shogun's influence had waned considerably due to the opening up of Japan to foreigners. The substates thing is what HPM for V2 does with Japan, where it's splint into a bunch of clans and Imperial Japan, all of which are substates of the Shogunate. One thing this does allow you to do in HPM is play as any one of them and have them re-unify the country as the winner of the Boshin war instead of always having to take the Shogunate side.
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May 25, 2021 23:36
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Beamed posted:It's a LOT more accurate than depicting independent nations instead of a unified Japan. The Shogunate was highly centralized, as can be shown by how swiftly the Boshin War was handled and the Restoration began. The Shogunate clearly wasn't very centralized given it had to deal with a full blown civil war in which it lost. You're confusing how quickly the feudal domains allowed themselves to be re-centralized under the Imperial court and the resulting new government/Diet with how they were in the 50 some-odd years leading up to it. Feudal Japan is still Feudal Japan. Plenty of European feudal nations looked centralized from the outside until they weren't thanks to the feudal/social contract the landed nobility held with the King. And the power balance between the Shogun and the Daimyo changed from reign to reign.
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May 25, 2021 23:46
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What benefits does uncentralized shogun have. What would it accomplish
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May 25, 2021 23:48
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How did the (nominal) republic of Haiti play in Vicky 2? As one of the few states calling itself a republic at the start date of 1836, you'd figure it'd be a pretty interesting start.
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May 25, 2021 23:48
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Vagabong posted:How did the (nominal) republic of Haiti play in Vicky 2? As one of the few states calling itself a republic at the start date of 1836, you'd figure it'd be a pretty interesting start. There is unfortunately not a lot to them, being only a single state with a pretty low population that can't really eat any of its neighbours to expand. You can get literacy up fast and use the old "go all in on art" strategy to pump up your prestige, but you will hit a wall pretty quickly in terms of how much you can do with them.
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May 25, 2021 23:51
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Raenir Salazar posted:The Shogunate clearly wasn't very centralized given it had to deal with a full blown civil war in which it lost. You're confusing how quickly the feudal domains allowed themselves to be re-centralized under the Imperial court and the resulting new government/Diet with how they were in the 50 some-odd years leading up to it. Feudal Japan is still Feudal Japan. Plenty of European feudal nations looked centralized from the outside until they weren't thanks to the feudal/social contract the landed nobility held with the King. And the power balance between the Shogun and the Daimyo changed from reign to reign. Losing a civil war rapidly is itself indicative of high centralization, though?
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May 25, 2021 23:54
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Raenir Salazar posted:Japanese history during the period is a little complex. The Shogunate while powerful, is kinda more like if you had the Holy Roman Empire with the Emperor as a figurehead and Wallenstein controlling the government. IIRC you had dozens if not over a hundred feudal domains that were vassals and the modernist/restoration faction and the shogunate faction in the Boshin War were made up of these feudal domains. The Shogun's influence had waned considerably due to the opening up of Japan to foreigners. The thing is I don't know what you gain by having that level of granularity instead of just have the conservative daimyos and samurai be pops that oppose your attempts at modernization just like what they are doing for the planter aristocracy in the american south. Hell in the US you could probably plausibly argue for it to be broken up into its own historical subnations (states) but I don't think you gain anything from doing that either.
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May 26, 2021 00:16
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Raenir Salazar posted:The Shogunate clearly wasn't very centralized given it had to deal with a full blown civil war in which it lost. You're confusing how quickly the feudal domains allowed themselves to be re-centralized under the Imperial court and the resulting new government/Diet with how they were in the 50 some-odd years leading up to it. Feudal Japan is still Feudal Japan. Plenty of European feudal nations looked centralized from the outside until they weren't thanks to the feudal/social contract the landed nobility held with the King. And the power balance between the Shogun and the Daimyo changed from reign to reign. Making the case that Tsarist Russia was actually a decentralised state because it lost a civil war ?????
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May 26, 2021 00:22
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Vagabong posted:How did the (nominal) republic of Haiti play in Vicky 2? As one of the few states calling itself a republic at the start date of 1836, you'd figure it'd be a pretty interesting start. I had a great game with Haiti in V2, though I was quite lucky at a couple of key moments. I had immense satisfaction at eventually managing to take that one island off from Denmark and I really want to recreate that moment in Vicky 3. It was one of the few games in which I played until the end, and I managed to take quite a few Carribbean islands (including Hispaniola, obviously), I think only excluding the British ones. I played as a (nominal) republic until the end, with very few voting reforms. I've no idea what Haiti is like in real life, but I hope it's better than the super conservative state I created!
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May 26, 2021 00:58
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Vagabong posted:How did the (nominal) republic of Haiti play in Vicky 2? As one of the few states calling itself a republic at the start date of 1836, you'd figure it'd be a pretty interesting start. like a weaker uruguay, you can go heavy on immigrant attraction but it's pretty hard to do much besides maybe eat the DR early.
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May 26, 2021 00:59
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Raenir Salazar posted:The Shogunate clearly wasn't very centralized given it had to deal with a full blown civil war in which it lost. You're confusing how quickly the feudal domains allowed themselves to be re-centralized under the Imperial court and the resulting new government/Diet with how they were in the 50 some-odd years leading up to it. Feudal Japan is still Feudal Japan. Plenty of European feudal nations looked centralized from the outside until they weren't thanks to the feudal/social contract the landed nobility held with the King. And the power balance between the Shogun and the Daimyo changed from reign to reign. I don't understand this argument. Do you also support every US state being separate from the federal government in DC? Because clearly they had a lot of their own power.
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May 26, 2021 01:12
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:I don't understand this argument. Do you also support every US state being separate from the federal government in DC? Because clearly they had a lot of their own power. They STILL have a lot of power to this day as shown in this idiotic patchwork pandemic management we have in the US
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May 26, 2021 01:15
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Do you need to watch out for the US attacking you or can you just chill and stack up prestige all day? Building a utopian Haitian paradise sounds kind of nice on its own compared to the  historical reality
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May 26, 2021 01:17
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This comparison to the antebellum US is really nonsensical. Did individual states have their own foreign policy, including armed conflicts with foreign powers? Did they have foreign vassals?
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May 26, 2021 01:19
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Cockblocktopus posted:Do you need to watch out for the US attacking you or can you just chill and stack up prestige all day? Building a utopian Haitian paradise sounds kind of nice on its own compared to the You can chill. the us probably won't invade.
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May 26, 2021 01:20
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zhuge liang posted:This comparison to the antebellum US is really nonsensical. Did individual states have their own foreign policy, including armed conflicts with foreign powers? Did they have foreign vassals? Yes actually but the argument reanir is making still doesn't hold up https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledo_War https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_at_Fort_Utah https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Norton Anyways Utah under Brigham young was basically an independent fiefdom And the vast majority of the conflicts the US fought in the period was states unlawfully encroaching on native territory. Gaius Marius fucked around with this message at 01:29 on May 26, 2021 |
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May 26, 2021 01:23
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Looks like the Haitian revolution, which was 1791-1804
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May 26, 2021 01:30
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zhuge liang posted:This comparison to the antebellum US is really nonsensical. Did individual states have their own foreign policy, including armed conflicts with foreign powers? Did they have foreign vassals? no foreign vassals but US states do indeed maintain their own standing armies in the form the each state's National Guard and the territories that were eventually integrated into states maintained militias, those national guard and militia units were a major part of the fight force in the American Indian Wars and fought both with and without federal assistance, especially during the civil war when federal troops were otherwise occupied these units would also be the primary fighting force in the US labor wars in the late 19th century as well
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May 26, 2021 01:30
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zhuge liang posted:This comparison to the antebellum US is really nonsensical. Did individual states have their own foreign policy, including armed conflicts with foreign powers? Did they have foreign vassals? I mean yes they did. Even if you pretend Indian tribes aren’t sovereign for whatever reason
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May 26, 2021 01:31
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