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EbolaIvory posted:Its not that they don't want to. how silly of me, everyone knows how strapped for cash Google is.
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May 26, 2021 17:04
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Yeah the people to compete with Facebook would've been Google and they gave up incredibly quickly. Although I'm pretty sure Valve has enough money to do whatever they want.
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May 26, 2021 17:07
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I'd just rather not have VR at all than give money to Facebook, a company that is at best merely complicit with genocide.
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May 26, 2021 17:08
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explosivo posted:My first VR headset was a Gear VR I got for free with my Galaxy S7 and I tried playing Minecraft on that once with a bluetooth controller and I got so, so goddamn sick from it. Same, the same year I bought an Oculus CV1 I did a dry run with a Gear VR to see if VR was for me. I thought it was cool as heck (obviously), but there was no way I was going to settle for a Gear VR to play around with in any serious way. It's fine for low res VR videos and not much else.
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May 26, 2021 17:08
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Senator Drinksalot posted:Yeah the people to compete with Facebook would've been Google and they gave up incredibly quickly. Although I'm pretty sure Valve has enough money to do whatever they want. I mean, Amazon probably could also compete if they wanted to, but their attempts at anything outside their core competency that isn't Kindle tend to be hot trash.
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May 26, 2021 17:11
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raditts posted:I mean, Amazon probably could also compete if they wanted to, but their attempts at anything outside their core competency that isn't Kindle tend to be hot trash. Amazon is the only company right now outside of apple that has the money and resources to really compete in the VR space AND push a headset out that can compete price wise with oculus. People act like its just money, theres a poo poo ton more to it when it comes to making a headset than you realize. Senator Drinksalot posted:Yeah the people to compete with Facebook would've been Google and they gave up incredibly quickly. Although I'm pretty sure Valve has enough money to do whatever they want. Like all google things. Decent half baked ideas that get killed before they shape up. raditts posted:how silly of me, everyone knows how strapped for cash Google is. Yet here we are because they failed and didn't actually allocate resources to it outside of it being a gimmick. What do they even have to do with VR anymore anyways, Wishful thinking? What I said stands.
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May 26, 2021 17:16
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EbolaIvory posted:Oculus/Facebook wins right now because they can afford to lose their entire rear end on every headset sold. Last I checked, Quest and Quest 2 were both sold at roughly cost, not a loss. How much do you think they’re losing per headset, out of curiosity?
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May 26, 2021 17:18
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King Vidiot posted:I loving hate Facebook but I'm at the point where I realize they don't really track you anymore than Google or Amazon or literally any big tech company. It's wrong for any of those companies to do what they're doing, but at the same time... they're doing it no matter what you buy or do and voting with your wallet doesn't work so Wait till that promised in-headset smart assistant comes along and the mic's always on. Also that headset can generate a lot of medical metadata about you just from general use. They're getting a LOT more than ad clicks and views from you.
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May 26, 2021 17:20
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SCheeseman posted:Stepping on pets is one of those things people cite as a potential concern but is something that rarely happens, cats don't like to be around humans that are flailing around like idiots. Tell that to this little dude that likes to lay down on top of my feet while I try to play ping pong in the matrix. 
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May 26, 2021 17:21
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EbolaIvory posted:Yet here we are because they failed and didn't actually allocate resources to it outside of it being a gimmick. Google being the only one that could compete and not allocating resources to it is literally what we were talking about when you popped in with your hot takes about how nobody understands how money works except for you like all you're doing here is agreeing with what's already been said in the most obnoxious way possible, what point are you even trying to make here, what are you trying to accomplish
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May 26, 2021 17:22
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Wait till that promised in-headset smart assistant comes along and the mic's always on. Also that headset can generate a lot of medical metadata about you just from general use. They're getting a LOT more than ad clicks and views from you. Facebook sucks but like we already swallowed this pill when everyone bought smartphones.
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May 26, 2021 17:22
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Yeah no-one who says cats avoid flailing humans has never owned a cat. They love nothing more than walking right by your feet.Stan Taylor posted:Facebook sucks but like we already swallowed this pill when everyone bought smartphones.
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May 26, 2021 17:22
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Stan Taylor posted:Tell that to this little dude that likes to lay down on top of my feet while I try to play ping pong in the matrix. They do this to me too. Either they think it's time to play and run all around my VR area chasing each other or they fall asleep on my feet/somewhere in the room. Cats absolutely do not leave flailing humans alone.
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May 26, 2021 17:23
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Wait till that promised in-headset smart assistant comes along and the mic's always on. Also that headset can generate a lot of medical metadata about you just from general use. They're getting a LOT more than ad clicks and views from you. Oh, I'm sure I can just opt out of it by unchecking a box buried so deep on the Facebook site that I have to do an outside search for it just to find it.
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May 26, 2021 17:24
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I see we're at the stage of the discussion where we get more and more nervous about imaginary features. I think they are going for voice controls not bonzi buddy
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May 26, 2021 17:25
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njsykora posted:Yeah no-one who says cats avoid flailing humans has never owned a cat. They love nothing more than walking right by your feet.  Stan Taylor posted:Tell that to this little dude that likes to lay down on top of my feet while I try to play ping pong in the matrix. Get out of the way you dumb cat! I've had mine intrude in my play area occasionally but for the most part they keep clear. If they do come close it's usually because I'm doing something seated or standing only. Does Rift-S have that double tap passthrough thing?
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May 26, 2021 17:26
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Stan Taylor posted:Tell that to this little dude that likes to lay down on top of my feet while I try to play ping pong in the matrix. I accidentally clobbered my cat once. Playing Beat Saber and was crouched while doing a wide swing, and THONK and heard little feet running away down the hall. I had to stop and go bring her treats and be nice to try and convey that she didn't do anything wrong. Since then she knows not to be in the same room when the giant idiot has his plastic face on
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May 26, 2021 17:26
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Jokerpilled Drudge posted:I see we're at the stage of the discussion where we get more and more nervous about completely imagined software You come back to me when the urine test update comes and say that to my face
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May 26, 2021 17:27
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Jokerpilled Drudge posted:I see we're at the stage of the discussion where we get more and more nervous about imaginary features. I think they are going for voice controls not bonzi buddy no they're going to steal YOUR BIOMETRICS while they insert the 5G chips in through your eye sockets
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May 26, 2021 17:27
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EbolaIvory posted:Amazon is the only company right now outside of apple that has the money and resources to really compete in the VR space AND push a headset out that can compete price wise with oculus. Yeah, I was gonna say, Apple could afford it, being both filthy loaded and famous for keeping an egregious war chest, and they certainly have the technical resources. Buuuuuut lol if anyone thinks the privacy situation would be any better. The privacy landscape would look different on the surface but that'd be about it. And of course we won't see anything from Apple in this field until they can make it satisfactorily sleek.
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May 26, 2021 17:28
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StarkRavingMad posted:no they're going to steal YOUR BIOMETRICS while they insert the 5G chips in through your eye sockets I mean... what did people think all those health and fitness tracking apps were for? Just looking out for the wellbeing of their customers? lol Bad Munki posted:Yeah, I was gonna say, Apple could afford it, being both filthy loaded and famous for keeping an egregious war chest, and they certainly have the technical resources. Buuuuuut lol if anyone thinks the privacy situation would be any better. The privacy landscape would look different on the surface but that'd be about it. And of course we won't see anything from Apple in this field until they can make it satisfactorily sleek. An Apple product certainly wouldn't allow anything like connecting to your PC via Virtual Desktop. Not by default, at least. raditts fucked around with this message at 17:32 on May 26, 2021 |
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May 26, 2021 17:30
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Right, I mean it's not like they'll have an AI detect nervousness in your speech patterns to see if you're lying, no company in recent memory has proposed doing that. And footage of the inside of your house couldn't be sent to the police for warrantless searches, I mean no camera connected to the internet has ever had its footage handed over to the cops. There's a fine line between not caring how much tech companies invade your privacy and just not admitting that they do it in creepy ways.
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May 26, 2021 17:33
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King Vidiot posted:Right, I mean it's not like they'll have an AI detect nervousness in your speech patterns to see if you're lying, no company in recent memory has proposed doing that. And footage of the inside of your house couldn't be sent to the police for warrantless searches, I mean no camera connected to the internet has ever had its footage handed over to the cops. jokes on them, I cover my Quest 2 in tinfoil along with my whole head it keeps the facebook from talking inside my brain for the most part
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May 26, 2021 17:35
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Bad Munki posted:Yeah, I was gonna say, Apple could afford it, being both filthy loaded and famous for keeping an egregious war chest, and they certainly have the technical resources. Buuuuuut lol if anyone thinks the privacy situation would be any better. The privacy landscape would look different on the surface but that'd be about it. And of course we won't see anything from Apple in this field until they can make it satisfactorily sleek. They are doing some stuff too but its not going to be the VR we know for sure. Hoping to see some insane stuff from them tbh. raditts posted:Google being the only one that could compete and not allocating resources to it is literally what we were talking about when you popped in with your hot takes about how nobody understands how money works except for you You don't see cheaper headsets because of everything I'm saying. This is the conversation. Is that not clear by my posts? Subjunctive posted:Last I checked, Quest and Quest 2 were both sold at roughly cost, not a loss. How much do you think they’re losing per headset, out of curiosity? Right now this second? I think the SoC prices (without factoring chip shortages and potential stock/pricing issues) are low enough we might be at a break even point. What are they running right now? 100-150 bucks? Hard to say to be totally honest. At this point they are losing at most 25 bucks a pop per unit maybe? And I'd probably say thats a bit high since stock hasn't seemingly been an issue as of late. Launch losses? Probably 50ish based on allocation/stock stuff? Take into account packaging, controllers, etc. Makes sense on paper without having official docs sitting here with prices. Keep in mind. I said they can afford to lose their rear end, Not that they are. They make that money back on the back end with software sales, which is the whole deal. And fwiw, I'm basing some of this simply off numbers that are publicly available for things like soc prices and what not. My entire point is, they are losing money in general on headset costs, and have from the moment they launch them. By the time they catch up, they are still not profiting off the hardware itself, then the new thing comes out and were back at square 1 for hardware costs. They found a really good line where they can not hemorrhage money per unit, but its still a loss until a customer buys some games. Which is the entire reason you don't see other 300ish dollar stand alone headsets.
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May 26, 2021 17:37
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Bad Munki posted:Yeah, I was gonna say, Apple could afford it, being both filthy loaded and famous for keeping an egregious war chest, and they certainly have the technical resources. Buuuuuut lol if anyone thinks the privacy situation would be any better. The privacy landscape would look different on the surface but that'd be about it. And of course we won't see anything from Apple in this field until they can make it satisfactorily sleek. Apple aren't an advertising company and are currently in a massive feud with Facebook because they forced them to give users an explicit block tracking option. Privacy is their big differentiator right now to the mainstream and they push that hard every time they launch a new thing and recoil hard every time they gently caress up in a way that dents that image (see: hiring a former Facebook advertising guy and firing him within a week once his reputation got out). For what it's worth the current talk is their developer headset is ready to go, they just don't want to announce it until they can do an in-person event again so devs can actually try it.
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May 26, 2021 17:37
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Jokerpilled Drudge posted:I see we're at the stage of the discussion where we get more and more nervous about imaginary features. I think they are going for voice controls not bonzi buddy How's that turning out for Amazon's Alexa?
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May 26, 2021 17:41
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EbolaIvory posted:You don't see cheaper headsets because of everything I'm saying. This is the conversation. Is that not clear by my posts? What is unclear is why you think everybody doesn't already know this. The only person having this conversation is you, you're arguing about something literally nobody else is arguing about.
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May 26, 2021 17:41
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raditts posted:What is unclear is why you think everybody doesn't already know this. The only person having this conversation is you, you're arguing about something literally nobody else is arguing about. I think you should go back and read my post and not be so personally offended I said "You guys dont get it". Or, Hit the mute button on me. That works too.
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May 26, 2021 17:47
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EbolaIvory posted:And fwiw, I'm basing some of this simply off numbers that are publicly available for things like soc prices and what not. My entire point is, they are losing money in general on headset costs, and have from the moment they launch them. FWIW, there are skilled people at Oculus and FB RL in general whose whole job is to make sure that they don’t pay public prices when placing orders for millions of units. I don’t believe, based on conversations with people who are in a position to know for a fact, that they lose money on the cost of the Q2, when sold directly from FB at least. I didn’t think to discuss how pricing works for retail channels, but the next time I’m chatting with the people I’ll try to remember. When I was there the Rift was sold at cost, not a loss, and that was the policy of record for hardware, in contrast to the typical console model. The cost model included an estimated average shipping cost, but I don’t recall how generous the RMA allowance was. They have lost money on some hardware like certain Portal units, where they made a mid-cycle upgrade to a component for whatever reason and it stretched the BOM. As far as I know they have never released any main piece of hardware (versus an accessory, like I think the standalone Touch controllers) at a loss.
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May 26, 2021 17:50
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EbolaIvory posted:They are doing some stuff too but its not going to be the VR we know for sure. Hoping to see some insane stuff from them tbh. njsykora posted:For what it's worth the current talk is their developer headset is ready to go, they just don't want to announce it until they can do an in-person event again so devs can actually try it. Yeah, I'm aware and am certainly interested to finally see what they've been up to, but I won't consider any grapevine news as even being worth musing over in the shower until there's something concrete being advertised. Just because, like, Apple gonna Apple. They love their closed doors.
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May 26, 2021 17:50
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Bad Munki posted:Yeah, I'm aware and am certainly interested to finally see what they've been up to, but I won't consider any grapevine news as even being worth musing over in the shower until there's something concrete being advertised. Just because, like, Apple gonna Apple. They love their closed doors. Apple tends to launch things when its "good" so, heres to hoping man. I really really have high hopes they can push some sort of screen on peoples faces. Subjunctive posted:FWIW, there are skilled people at Oculus and FB RL in general whose whole job is to make sure that they don’t pay public prices when placing orders for millions of units. Yeah please, I'm curious as all my oculus folks are mostly software people and hardware numbers don't go through them really at all. I'm sure we're at a break even at this point, or close. Launch? Ehhh.
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May 26, 2021 17:52
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Subjunctive posted:Last I checked, Quest and Quest 2 were both sold at roughly cost, not a loss. How much do you think they’re losing per headset, out of curiosity? AFAIK, no one knows. Unless you work at Facebook, I mean.
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May 26, 2021 18:09
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Apple is obsessed with how things look, a sleek, easy user interface, well-vetted apps that meet their standards, and most importantly, high resolution These are all great things for a VR headset. Imagine the new Apple M1 driving whatever their version of a retina VR display is. Awesome. The downfall will be that things like Virtual Desktop, sidequest, and custom beatsaber songs absolutely would not exist. Think of how hard it is to get custom software on to a modern iPhone these days.
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May 26, 2021 18:16
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njsykora posted:Apple aren't an advertising company njsykora posted:and are currently in a massive feud with Facebook because they forced them to give users an explicit block tracking option. because other advertising companies are direct competitors on their platforms
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May 26, 2021 18:19
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Jim Silly-Balls posted:Apple is obsessed with how things look, a sleek, easy user interface, well-vetted apps that meet their standards, and most importantly, high resolution I think the underlying issue is that this is actually the least-solved problem right now, and I don't see any reason to think that Apple understands how to make valuable stuff in VR or knows how to make a market for other people to make things that can sell
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May 26, 2021 18:32
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I don't think Apple wants to make VR apps themselves, other than maybe VR versions of its base and productivity apps (maybe they'll remember Garageband exists!). More likely they want the Mac to be more appealing as a development platform for other people, they spent quite a bit of time during the initial Apple Silicon presentation talking about how well Unity ran on M1. Hence the headset being targeted way more at developers.
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May 26, 2021 18:36
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Jim Silly-Balls posted:Apple is obsessed with how things look, a sleek, easy user interface, well-vetted apps that meet their standards, and most importantly, high resolution It would also likely cost about $2000.
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May 26, 2021 18:36
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2020: Everyone has a smartphone anyway. What's the harm? 2120: Hello, jaykaycayhayden, would you like to see your great, great grandfather reconstructed before your eyes in 5 minutes, have a conversation with him composed of billions of voice samples, and then watch him turn into a puddle of goo 15 minutes later? Only $500 mcdollars. For an extra $100 we will recreate his domicile. I can't wait until xae12 zuckerberg rules everything and I will be god DAMNED if I let someone post in this here VR thread to blaspheme our future ruler. Bloodplay it again fucked around with this message at 18:40 on May 26, 2021 |
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May 26, 2021 18:37
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njsykora posted:I don't think Apple wants to make VR apps themselves, other than maybe VR versions of its base and productivity apps (maybe they'll remember Garageband exists!). More likely they want the Mac to be more appealing as a development platform for other people, they spent quite a bit of time during the initial Apple Silicon presentation talking about how well Unity ran on M1. Hence the headset being targeted way more at developers. I've been under the impression their end-game is AR rather than VR, so they can have people wearing them in public to look important and sell more devices (see also; the iPhone).
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May 26, 2021 18:40
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Bloodplay it again posted:I can't wait until xae12 zuckerberg rules everything and I will be god DAMNED if I let someone post in this here VR thread to blaspheme our future ruler.
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May 26, 2021 18:42
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