|
Euphoriaphone posted:Is the Turnstile meant to be two separate circles, or just one large one? I guess it's two because there must be some level of teleportation happening at the moment of inverting. If not, then in the moments leading up to inversion, your Forward and Inverted selves would need to merge into one (before immediately disappearing in the forward chronology). They don't say much about how the Turnstiles actually work and that's definitely for the better. I did like that we see a few different designs of turnstile. The dudes preparing for the final assault pincer movement had like a bunch of small parallel turnstile hoppers compared to the big room ones we saw earlier that could fit a car or whatever.
|
#
?
May 18, 2021 19:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 20, 2024 03:26 |
|
|
Euphoriaphone posted:Is the Turnstile meant to be two separate circles, or just one large one? I guess it's two because there must be some level of teleportation happening at the moment of inverting. If not, then in the moments leading up to inversion, your Forward and Inverted selves would need to merge into one (before immediately disappearing in the forward chronology). That’s right. In the forward perspective, you merge and annihilate. In the reverse perspective, it’s the moment of creation for both.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2021 20:49
|
|
|
does it ever specify how Sator gets the artifact after he inverts through the car chase? does he just know it's going to be in the silver car so he goes forward to grab it after inverted protagonist gets in (out, from forward-Sator's perspective)
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2021 00:41
|
|
|
Its Chocolate posted:does it ever specify how Sator gets the artifact after he inverts through the car chase? does he just know it's going to be in the silver car so he goes forward to grab it after inverted protagonist gets in (out, from forward-Sator's perspective) Right. If you reverse the “backwards Estonian” that they can’t understand the first time we see the chase scene, it’s Sator telling his men the 241 is in the car back at the Freeport.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2021 01:02
|
|
|
That's a legit problem, btw. The algorithm piece is not in the car when Protag inverts and first checks it. Then it suddenly is in the car when it's time to fly back into the case. But when did it get into the car in the first place? It's not there when the car starts moving the the Protagonist never leaves the car unattended. It just appears out of thin air.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2021 01:29
|
|
|
Megaman's Jockstrap posted:That's a legit problem, btw. The algorithm piece is not in the car when Protag inverts and first checks it. Then it suddenly is in the car when it's time to fly back into the case. But when did it get into the car in the first place? It's not there when the car starts moving the the Protagonist never leaves the car unattended. It just appears out of thin air. It is there though. When he gets in he looks in the back to make sure it’s there.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2021 01:35
|
|
|
gregday posted:It is there though. When he gets in he looks in the back to make sure it’s there. They don't show it. He looks in the back to make sure it's there and then does nothing with it, and just drives it up to Sator, where he knows that he threw it into the very car he's driving less than 30 minutes ago? That doesn't seem in character to me.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2021 01:37
|
|
|
Megaman's Jockstrap posted:They don't show it. He looks in the back to make sure it's there and then does nothing with it, and just drives it up to Sator, where he knows that he threw it into the very car he's driving less than 30 minutes ago? That doesn't seem in character to me. There’s lots not shown. At this point P is kind of an idiot when it comes to inversion and still acts like he can change things. Wheeler tried to tell him, the world is inverted; you are not. But he hasn’t got the hang of it yet like Sator does.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2021 01:43
|
|
|
Fair enough, I suppose. I wish they would have shown the algorithm piece though to really establish how dumb the Protag is being. "Cowboy poo poo" indeed.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2021 01:51
|
|
|
The algorithm being in the car is one of the few things that actually almost makes sense, because it’s accidental. Protag believes that he’s passed the Cube to his future self, who will then climb out of the car wreck and run off with his new toy. He consequently fails to actually search the car before getting in, missing that the Cube is there, and nobody corrects him because Pirya’s goal was to lose the Cube. However! Because the Cube was inside the silver car all along, this means it would have been inverted along with the car. Doing so would send the Cube backwards in time to whoever put the tarp on the car, or who drove the car to the Freeport, etc. As with the gold, this makes it extremely difficult or logistically impossible for Sator to actually retrieve the Cube - because he and his henchmen should have always had it long ago. The fact that they evidently didn’t already have the Cube indicates that Protag was actually successful at hiding the Cube, which generates a TIME PARADOX. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 02:22 on May 19, 2021 |
|
#
?
May 19, 2021 02:19
|
|
|
Also! When Sator searches the BMW’s glove-box, he does so while inverted. This means he can only see that the glove-box will be empty in the future. Sator consequently has absolutely no way of knowing whether or not the Cube was actually stashed there at some point in the past. Neil could have escaped with the Cube, as far as Sator knew, and he only finds out otherwise through sheer luck.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2021 02:44
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:The algorithm being in the car is one of the few things that actually almost makes sense, because it’s accidental. Protag believes that he’s passed the Cube to his future self, who will then climb out of the car wreck and run off with his new toy. He consequently fails to actually search the car before getting in, missing that the Cube is there, and nobody corrects him because Pirya’s goal was to lose the Cube. that depends on when the silver car became inverted. a theory I'm developing is that objects invert spontaneously when coming into violent contact with another inverted object. if that's true, then the silver car would have become inverted when it crashed into Sator's SUV. before that (or after from a normal POV) the car was normal, which was why Protag had trouble with the handling. ... unless that weird shot where the car stops and it shows the wheel spinning was meant to indicate the car was becoming inverted at that point
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2021 06:06
|
|
|
Its Chocolate posted:that depends on when the silver car became inverted. a theory I'm developing is that objects invert spontaneously when coming into violent contact with another inverted object. if that's true, then the silver car would have become inverted when it crashed into Sator's SUV. before that (or after from a normal POV) the car was normal, which was why Protag had trouble with the handling. ... unless that weird shot where the car stops and it shows the wheel spinning was meant to indicate the car was becoming inverted at that point It’s in the turnstile room https://i.stack.imgur.com/TbBp0.png
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2021 12:04
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:It’s in the turnstile room 
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2021 20:33
|
|
|
Apropos of nothing, the fight choreography far surpasses the Batman trilogy.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2021 22:10
|
|
|
Halloween Jack posted:Apropos of nothing, the fight choreography far surpasses the Batman trilogy. Damning with faint praise. https://i.imgur.com/MjIk45y.mp4 (Goon on the far left background)
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2021 22:54
|
|
|
Clearly he got hit with a batarang in the head, just out of frame.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2021 06:29
|
|
|
Halloween Jack posted:Apropos of nothing, the fight choreography far surpasses the Batman trilogy.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2021 10:04
|
|
|
They're not that hard to follow. The first one is better off for being choppier and in the second and third, everyone's moving in slow motion.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2021 12:04
|
|
|
Nolan is particularly bad when it comes to editing car chases https://vimeo.com/28792404
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2021 20:18
|
|
|
Euphoriaphone posted:Nolan is particularly bad when it comes to editing car chases The same guy did a similar analysis of a chase from Salt, which is a middling thriller but I thought did a good job with the action (as in: it's exciting, has a clear sense of geography, and you're never in any doubt as to what's happening), and it was good to see I'm not the only person who thought so.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 14:36
|
|
|
I went into this movie with super low expectations, but I was completely blown away by all the amazing visuals and set pieces. I loved the inversion concept, and I appreciate a film maker who understands the importance of practical effects. Originality in this day and age of reboots after reboots was a breath of fresh air. Did I understand everything? Not in a million years. Do I care? No. I do not. I didn't even bother trying to understand every little nuance of the plot, as there isn't a single time travel movie in existence that won't fall apart upon scrutiny. I don't need to know how a lightsaber works to enjoy Star Wars. I watched a few videos on youtube to try and understand how the turnstile works, but I still don't understand it. I don't think I'm supposed to. Suspension of disbelief is an important tool for being able to enjoy movies. I just watched a bunch of stuff blow up and people do cool stuff backwards, and that's about all I need for a good time, personally. Halloween Jack posted:Apropos of nothing, the fight choreography far surpasses the Batman trilogy. Bioshuffle fucked around with this message at 15:04 on May 21, 2021 |
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 15:02
|
|
|
Bioshuffle posted:there isn't a single time travel movie in existence that won't fall apart upon scrutiny. Absolutely bizarre post of "I don't need to or want to pay attention to movies but if I did I'm sure they would fall apart". Glad you enjoyed the film but this sentiment is nonsense.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 16:58
|
|
|
Bioshuffle posted:You may be joking, but when Batman Begins came out everyone was "blown away" by the quick brutal fight choreography. Wasn't the Jason Bourne trilogy responsible for that atrocity?
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 17:15
|
|
|
Well it also lead to the trend in lovely movies where if the lead action man sucks at actually doing action (cough taken cough) you just cut around wildly and be really confusing with the camera to hide it
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 17:43
|
|
|
The idea behind the right choreography in Batman Begins was to present him the way criminals see him, a dark blur that’s hard to track.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 17:58
|
|
|
Quick cuts aside, the fighting/choreography in the Bourne flicks is pretty good.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 17:59
|
|
|
Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Absolutely bizarre post of "I don't need to or want to pay attention to movies but if I did I'm sure they would fall apart". Glad you enjoyed the film but this sentiment is nonsense. The truth is that there are very few time-travel movies that don’t withstand scrutiny. The vast majority are like the Terminator series, where the characters are aware they are trapped in a loop - but use their knowledge of the structure of the loop to modify the loop from within, and ‘make their own fate.’ Interstellar is an example of this. Tenet is not actually that different, except that - for reasons gone over earlier - everything is a time machine and, often, loops occur every few seconds. The loops also frequently overlap. So, the plot mechanics of something basic like ‘Sator tossing the orange box out of his car’ are more complicated than the entire Terminator series. Multiple similar actions are taking place simultaneously in a given shot, and the film’s editing is fairly rapid.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 20:37
|
|
|
seriously if that's the silver car in the turnstile room how would Sator have gotten access to it to steal the artifact when he went forward again? wasn't that facility controlled by TENET by the time inverted Protag got in the car?
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2021 06:06
|
|
|
Euphoriaphone posted:Nolan is particularly bad when it comes to editing car chases To be fair, Michael Bay does this poo poo on purpose and people seem to love it  But I do prefer to have an idea of what is going on in action scenes myself. Happy Noodle Boy posted:Quick cuts aside, the fighting/choreography in the Bourne flicks is pretty good. Yeah its a shame though since the shakey cam makes it hard to fully appreciate. And then it inspired a bunch of other movies to do shakey cam and not bother doing choreography at all. I'd much rather just have a locked off camera that's pulled back and lets me see where people are in the scene!
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2021 07:42
|
|
|
Zaphod42 posted:Yeah its a shame though since the shakey cam makes it hard to fully appreciate. The b-roll footage of Bourne Supremacy, the one with the worst shaky cam, shows that the actors had trained hard and could pull off some really slick poo poo that the camera then actively hid.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2021 08:21
|
|
|
It’s not certain the car under the tarp is supposed to be the Saab. It could just be to show that yes, they do use this facility to invert cars in case anyone was wondering.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2021 17:51
|
|
|
Its Chocolate posted:by the time There is your problem. I think you can just assume with giant time armies and implied further adventures of tenet that you can assume all sorts of wacky bill and ted adventures happened offscreen. Once they show something exists you can just assume there is some whole wacky time loop adventure happening just out of frame at all times moving everything around.
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2021 13:20
|
|
|
Finally got around to watching this today and I enjoyed it. It's definitely not my favorite Nolan but it works pretty well. I did feel like it drags at times in the first half (before we get to the turnstile room portion). I had seen a lot of people saying that this required multiple viewings but I felt like I understood what happened fine. There are certainly a bunch of questions that the movie isn't going to answer but I felt like the overall narrative works.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2021 21:53
|
|
|
Ok not reading this thread at all yet but I'm 18 minutes into my first watch of tenet. I know nothing. First impression so far has been nothing but huge enthusiasm for John Washington. I really enjoyed him in blackkklansmen and already I'm hooked. And Christopher Nolan knows how to shoot a cold opening action scene drat. ______ Ok watched it all. Hard to follow the major plot with all the details but I'm willing to believe it all worked well enough. Loved it. Edit: yall are beyond me. A Bakers Cousin fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Jun 2, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2021 06:05
|
|
|
Finally saw this last night, read a dozen or so pages of this thread and watched several of those youtube animations that help clarify some of the scenes by illustrating them in both directions One thing I must have missed in the terrible muffled dialogue, is where did the turnstiles all come from? There are at least 4 sets shown in the general "present day" of the movie (small one in Oslo, larger one in Tallinn, the vertical troop ones on the ship, and the second set of troop ones Sator's men and one version of Neil use at the final battle scene). Is the assumption that people in the future sent inverted instructions back in time on how to build turnstiles, and present forces like Tenet people and Sator's people built their own themselves? Another weird thing is the implied future of TP. Between Neil's "you have a future in the past" and the realization that future-TP is running the show even to the point of recruiting himself, it is implied that at some point TP must go years back in time, which means hiding out inverted somewhere for years. Alternatively if Neil is Max, then Neil must spend like a decade inverted to reach the events of the movie as a 30-something adult or whatever. Either way that's a fuckass long time to live sequestered in a buried shipping container or whatever with a decade's worth of inverted food/water/air.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2021 23:50
|
|
|
All we really know about the turnstiles is that the future factions sent the information about how to make them to the past, possibly also the material. I don’t believe any more detail is given. I’ve seen that ‘Neil is Max’ thing and while it’s certainly possible, I don’t know if it’s true. I didn’t get the indication that Neil was super concerned about his mom potentially dying. Now you could chalk that up to him knowing that she lives through the events of the movie, but who knows. There are only minor hints to this theory in the movie and honestly I don’t know if it matters either way.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2021 01:41
|
|
|
bawfuls posted:Alternatively if Neil is Max, then Neil must spend like a decade inverted to reach the events of the movie as a 30-something adult or whatever. Either way that's a fuckass long time to live sequestered in a buried shipping container or whatever with a decade's worth of inverted food/water/air. That's a fun idea, dunno if I buy it. As for a decade's oxygen, for really long term inversions of years, the answer would be to build an inverted doomsday bunker. As long as you have some inverted trees, the inverted carbon dioxide you exhale could be recycled.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2021 03:20
|
|
|
Bio domes are pretty tough, I don’t think anyone’s managed to keep a closed system like that going for more than a few years. In addition to the material challenges, there’s also the mental challenge of being isolated that long. I suppose TP (or Neil) could do it in segments. Stock up for several months or whatever, invert that far, come out and revert, restock and invert again, repeat. Any way you slice it the logistics of trying to travel significantly far into the past through inversion are quite difficult. I also don’t find the “Neil is Max” theory very convincing, if for no other reason than Neil’s line to TP at the end seems unambiguous. bawfuls fucked around with this message at 03:39 on Jun 6, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2021 03:37
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 20, 2024 03:26 |
|
|
Yeah it wouldn’t be that hard, whenever you need more oxygen you just un invert, go to the oxygen/air compressor on all your expired tanks, and then take them back through the turnstile
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2021 05:08
|
|