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Wrong! It's important to have more money to prove your better than everyone else
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Jun 1, 2021 00:19
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karmicknight posted:Also, accruing wealth in Victoria 2 was a trap and a joke. You only need to make enough money to keep your country running, anything more is only useful insofar as you have stuff to spend it on. there's always stuff to spend it on. forts, regiments, naval bases, industrializing minors for industry points and to gently caress with other GPs attempts to influence them it's not impossible to run out of things to spend money on in v2 but it's hard
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Jun 1, 2021 00:23
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money is important to have the most ships, which as I understand it was the basic goal of 19th century state craft
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Jun 1, 2021 00:23
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a big reserve of money is important for when you actually have to supply your boats because england refuses to make peace in a crisis
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Jun 1, 2021 00:30
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Also there is the real pro move which is to hoard money to such an extent that the entire global economy crashes because there's just not enough currency in circulation for anyone to be able to buy anything. https://twitter.com/eleleanora/status/1397338294485196808
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Jun 1, 2021 00:32
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wait there was a fixed amount of currency in circulation in vicky2????
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Jun 1, 2021 00:35
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Raskolnikov38 posted:wait there was a fixed amount of currency in circulation in vicky2???? Sort of. It is a constantly increasing supply, due to gold mines which are the intended in-game way of creating more currency out of nothing, and various bugs which are not the intended way but nevertheless do add more money to the system (although there are also bugs that delete money from the system so I don't know which of these comes out on top). But in some extreme situations you can get out ahead of the curve and starve the global economy of cash enough that the trickle of new money being added is entirely insufficient.
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Jun 1, 2021 00:37
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The Cheshire Cat posted:Sort of. It is a constantly increasing supply, due to gold mines which are the intended in-game way of creating more currency out of nothing, and various bugs which are not the intended way but nevertheless do add more money to the system (although there are also bugs that delete money from the system so I don't know which of these comes out on top). But in some extreme situations you can get out ahead of the curve and starve the global economy of cash enough that the trickle of new money being added is entirely insufficient. It's like deus ex. Always learning more about this drat game
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Jun 1, 2021 00:38
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Raskolnikov38 posted:wait there was a fixed amount of currency in circulation in vicky2???? This always manages to take people with like 7000 hours in the game by complete surprise, lol
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Jun 1, 2021 00:41
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Jazerus posted:there's always stuff to spend it on. forts, regiments, naval bases, industrializing minors for industry points and to gently caress with other GPs attempts to influence them There's always stuff to spend it on, but because everything is basically everything is dependent on goods, depending on your own place in the market it's possible to literally not be able to spend money as fast as you're receiving it because you don't have enough access to the goods or not enough goods are being produced.
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Jun 1, 2021 00:47
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Actually having a large amount of money is a good idea because late game forts and ports, plus battleships and the like actually are expensive to build; and of course if you do end up at war it can be really expensive due to the economic dislocation it involves.
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Jun 1, 2021 00:48
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it is amazing how many weird edge cases in vicky 2 can end up totally shutting down the world economy.
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Jun 1, 2021 00:48
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Raenir Salazar posted:Actually having a large amount of money is a good idea because late game forts and ports, plus battleships and the like actually are expensive to build; and of course if you do end up at war it can be really expensive due to the economic dislocation it involves. One interesting thing about Victoria 2 is that your "rainy day fund" doesn't actually have to be in cash; you can set the goods stockpile settings to manual and stock up on stuff like artillery and guns during peacetime, and this is in fact a better strategy because usually the problem when wartime hits is that you have the money to order new ships/troops to be built, but can't actually get the goods needed to build them. But it's also very fiddly and most players aren't going to bother because it's a lot easier to just let the number be green for a while and then dump it all on whatever you happen to need right now, than to figure out ahead of time what specific goods you're going to want to stockpile, head into the trade interface, set them to manual, try to figure out exactly how much you will need, give up, set the slider to maximum, then watch the world economy crash because you just ordered 2000 units of iron and that is like 1/3rd of the entire planet's consumption.
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Jun 1, 2021 00:52
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TheFlyingLlama posted:it is amazing how many weird edge cases in vicky 2 can end up totally shutting down the world economy. yeah, in vicky2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRJpCa0xrCM
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Jun 1, 2021 00:54
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I wanted a video explaing why onion futures are banned in the united states'.
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Jun 1, 2021 00:54
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Stuff like this is why Vicky 2 was good and 3 being a more consistent and logical game would be a shame
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Jun 1, 2021 01:00
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CharlestheHammer posted:Stuff like this is why Vicky 2 was good and 3 being a more consistent and logical game would be a shame i like vicky 2 a lot but i think being able to free bengal without having every bengali peasant end up with 100 million pounds sterling would be better overall
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Jun 1, 2021 01:02
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Doesn't the interest that's supposed to be paid to people who hold loans end up just getting deleted instead?
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Jun 1, 2021 01:05
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Jazerus posted:i like vicky 2 a lot but i think being able to free bengal without having every bengali peasant end up with 100 million pounds sterling would be better overall Hard disagree
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Jun 1, 2021 01:06
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The Cheshire Cat posted:Sort of. It is a constantly increasing supply, due to gold mines which are the intended in-game way of creating more currency out of nothing, and various bugs which are not the intended way but nevertheless do add more money to the system (although there are also bugs that delete money from the system so I don't know which of these comes out on top). But in some extreme situations you can get out ahead of the curve and starve the global economy of cash enough that the trickle of new money being added is entirely insufficient. Accurate representation of what would happen if we switched from fiat currency to Bitcoin.
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Jun 1, 2021 01:52
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CharlestheHammer posted:Stuff like this is why Vicky 2 was good and 3 being a more consistent and logical game would be a shame To be clear, stuff like that is why Vicky 2 was NOT good, but fun in spite of that fact. It's better for Victoria 3 to be, uh, a well made game.
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Jun 1, 2021 03:20
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Hellioning posted:Doesn't the interest that's supposed to be paid to people who hold loans end up just getting deleted instead? Yeah I'm pretty sure loan interest is one of the big bugs where money leaks out of the economy in V2, it's honestly a wonder that 2's economy produces vaguely functional results most of the time and isn't just 100% Bengal-induced liquidity crises
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Jun 1, 2021 04:26
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Wasn't the economy also programmed by a libertarian who used it to "prove" that taxes are bad? Or is that just a rumor I heard.
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Jun 1, 2021 04:42
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The Cheshire Cat posted:It's a lot easier to just let the number be green for a while and then dump it all on whatever you happen to need right now, than to figure out ahead of time what specific goods you're going to want to stockpile, head into the trade interface, set them to manual, try to figure out exactly how much you will need, give up, set the slider to maximum, then watch the world economy crash because you just ordered 2000 units of iron and that is like 1/3rd of the entire planet's consumption. Eventually you just want a a stockpile of 999 of every good which makes things easier.
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Jun 1, 2021 04:55
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Fister Roboto posted:Wasn't the economy also programmed by a libertarian who used it to "prove" that taxes are bad? Or is that just a rumor I heard. I don't believe so, because state direction of the economy is consistently the best way to play the game.
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Jun 1, 2021 05:03
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Fister Roboto posted:Wasn't the economy also programmed by a libertarian who used it to "prove" that taxes are bad? Or is that just a rumor I heard. Raenir Salazar posted:I don't believe so, because state direction of the economy is consistently the best way to play the game. it was programmed by a libertarian who concluded that the labor theory of value was the best basis for engaging, vaguely-historical gameplay mechanics, and who therefore hilariously created a game where libertarian economics are horrid and only viable for immense imperial states that feed on misery. it is absolutely true that taxing pops to the point that you lower their quality of life is very bad, but that's not exactly a difficult conclusion to draw no matter your ideology
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Jun 1, 2021 05:11
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Or, more simply, it was created by a Thatcherite with the goal of making a fun game regardless of what his real life political beliefs are. Because he was a game dev making a game, not a fanatic ideologue making a piece of political propaganda.
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Jun 1, 2021 05:18
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You don't have to be a fanatic to have your political leanings leak into the things you create, whether it's deliberate or not. That's just a thing people do.
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Jun 1, 2021 05:48
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I'm curious now, how does the labor theory of value play into the V2 economy?
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Jun 1, 2021 05:53
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Gaius Marius posted:I wanted a video explaing why onion futures are banned in the united states'. Here you go Tldr; one guy managed to buy not only all the onions in the us but all future onions, and used that control and market manipulation to not only make himself rich but also make onions literally worthless. So onion farmers lobbied to make onion futures illegal to avoid a repeat of this.
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Jun 1, 2021 06:43
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TheFlyingLlama posted:it is amazing how many weird edge cases in vicky 2 can end up totally shutting down the world economy. The world economy has been crashing basically as long as there has been a world economy, and relative stability is a peculiarity of the modern period. The US economy crashed about once a decade in the 19th century, for example, and a fair amount of Marxist economics argues that this boom-crash cycle is inherent to capitalism, in part because it was happening very frequently at the time. I do wonder if Vicky 3 will reflect that lack of stability!
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Jun 1, 2021 09:14
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Bug report: So I noticed a major flaw in Vicky 3's economy. The Capitalist Pops are supposed to make money by selling the commodities their factories produce, with the difference between the Worker Pops' wages and the commodities sell prices accounting for the profit. However, commodities sold on the market are primarily bought by the Worker Pops themselves! Since they are paid less than the commodities are actually worth, there isn't enough money circulating to buy up all the production, and you end up with a surplus of goods that just gets stockpiled. This overproduction causes the in game economy to poo poo the bed once a decade. Why didn't they playtest this??
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Jun 1, 2021 09:25
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AnoHito posted:This always manages to take people with like 7000 hours in the game by complete surprise, lol Buncha Johnny come latelys who weren't there for the DDs, clearly  AnoHito posted:Or, more simply, it was created by a Thatcherite with the goal of making a fun game regardless of what his real life political beliefs are. Y'know, people always level this accusation at King, but I have met the guy and from the things he was saying at the time I'd swear up and down he was a middle of the road social democrat.
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Jun 1, 2021 09:27
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Mantis42 posted:Bug report: So I noticed a major flaw in Vicky 3's economy. The Capitalist Pops are supposed to make money by selling the commodities their factories produce, with the difference between the Worker Pops' wages and the commodities sell prices accounting for the profit. However, commodities sold on the market are primarily bought by the Worker Pops themselves! Since they are paid less than the commodities are actually worth, there isn't enough money circulating to buy up all the production, and you end up with a surplus of goods that just gets stockpiled. This overproduction causes the in game economy to poo poo the bed once a decade. Why didn't they playtest this?? I want to frame this post and put it by my bed and kiss it before I go to sleep every night
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Jun 1, 2021 09:44
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Fister Roboto posted:Wasn't the economy also programmed by a libertarian who used it to "prove" that taxes are bad? Or is that just a rumor I heard. you're probably confused with the GalCiv games, whose lead developer, Brad Wardell, is a noteworthy rear end in a top hat and idiot. In GalCiv 2 and 3 he based the economic model around the (trickledown, completely discredited and entirely nonsensical) Laffer Curve. It made no sense at all and made for very bad gameplay, but libertarian's gotta libertarian
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Jun 1, 2021 09:54
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OctaviusBeaver posted:I'm curious now, how does the labor theory of value play into the V2 economy? The best explanation I can find is this GDC talk where at 21:00 Chris King starts talking about how Marxism makes for good game mechanics - for example, then incentive to colonize Africa by the marxist view is for raw materials to feed your industry, even if it's expensive. I can't find anything directly stating he took it further but a whole host of Victoria 2s mechanics are built on Marxist assumptions and principles which is clear if you've read up on the theory.
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Jun 1, 2021 11:37
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Beamed posted:To be clear, stuff like that is why Vicky 2 was NOT good, but fun in spite of that fact. It's better for Victoria 3 to be, uh, a well made game. Nope I hope to god you don’t get that as it sounds like a horribly boring sterile game
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Jun 1, 2021 11:41
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CharlestheHammer posted:Nope I hope to god you don’t get that as it sounds like a horribly boring sterile game its 2021, that's what were getting. pdox is a big boy now.
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Jun 1, 2021 11:55
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Personally I like games that function instead losing a many-hour campaign because Bengal exists
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Jun 1, 2021 12:38
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Beamed posted:To be clear, stuff like that is why Vicky 2 was NOT good, but fun in spite of that fact. It's better for Victoria 3 to be, uh, a well made game. You clearly don't know what good means.
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Jun 1, 2021 12:38
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