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The Hork-Bajir Chronicles-Chapter 16 Dak Hamee quote:We have many tales, we Hork-Bajir, of Father Deep. Father Deep and Mother Sky gave birth to us, their children. Mother Sky gives us air and light. Father Deep gives us soil and water. Both are necessary for the trees that sustain us. Andalite tails....they're something. Chapter 17 Aldrea quote:Dak looked at me like I was some sort of mythological deity. I had injured the monster. I guess no one had even done that before. I mean, they're down in Father Deep, but what does this mean?
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# ? May 30, 2021 04:51 |
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# ? Apr 28, 2024 04:51 |
It means KA Applegate did some creative brainstorming to come up with a unique idea for a planet. I give her 9/10, because it's one I haven't seen in any other scifi.
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# ? May 30, 2021 05:21 |
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Its definitely impossible but it is a very cool concept and that's more important.
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# ? May 30, 2021 06:32 |
Yup. Rule of Cool overrides pretty much everything else.
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# ? May 30, 2021 08:27 |
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Epicurius posted:The Hork-Bajir Chronicles-Chapter 16 I really really love the world building that’s gone into this book. And I’m so excited about this trip into Father Deep! I have some of my most vivid Animorphs memories from this book. Isn’t the construction within this chasm the work of a highly intelligent pteranodon-type species? Aldrea and Dak’s relationship is very interesting. One thing I’m noticing is the dichotomy between Dak’s/Hork Bajir’s emotional intelligence (strong communities, empathy, etc) and the scientific intelligence of the Andalites. Aldrea describes her family, even to the last moment, as individuals pursuing their separate interests within the same space rather than as a cohesive family unit; we get some of this in the Andalite chronicles, as an effect of the nature of a far-flung spacefaring race. But THAT is exactly why Aldrea finds that Dak Hamee is impossible to lie to. With the loose family ties, her parents might have believed (or pretended to) a similar lie, and if Dak was of ordinary Hork Bajir intelligence she could easily fool him. But he has both kinds of intelligence. It seems, too, that he can (or is more easily able to) feel things more deeply than she, as she’s not used to this kind of deep emotional connection. There’s definitely an element of the Noble Savage here, but on an individual level Aldrea and Dak Hamee’s interactions are very interesting. Especially when you consider the sterile, distant nature of the Animorph’s suburban setting, and all the kids’ secrets and lies. All that human and andalite superiority and intelligence stands in stark contrast to Hork Bajir society, including the warlike assumptions about tree bark harvesters being walking weapons.
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# ? May 30, 2021 14:01 |
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Chapter 18 Esplin 9466 quote:In an instant I had learned one of the terrible drawbacks of having a host body. A host body can be hurt. And the pain cannot be filtered out. The very capability that gives us control ties us into the pain. Putting aside his obsession with getting an Andalite host, I still find it amazing how nobody listens to Esplin about Andalites. "You know, there are four Andalites. If you wait, you can probably kill them all with one blast." "No, we're not going to wait" "The Andalite must be dead. After all, none of our Gedds could survive." "Don't count her out. Andalites are tough, smart, and resourceful." "No, she's dead." The Yeerks are underestimating the Andalites the same way the Andalites underestimated the Yeerks. Chapter 19 quote:Father Deep. That’s what the Hork-Bajir called it. They thought it was the land of monsters, below the mist. But the zone of monsters was fairly narrow. Begin the shipping. (Please don't begin the shipping.)
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# ? May 31, 2021 05:54 |
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Also, this isn't related to this book, but I saw it and thought of Tobias: https://twitter.com/buitengebieden_/status/1398592444434993156
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# ? May 31, 2021 06:06 |
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Epicurius posted:The Yeerks are underestimating the Andalites the same way the Andalites underestimated the Yeerks. Maybe Visser 3 is a half decent commander but his assumption that the Animorphs are Andalites is screwing with his expertise. He did pull off a pretty big win in the last book.
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# ? May 31, 2021 07:07 |
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Rochallor posted:Maybe Visser 3 is a half decent commander but his assumption that the Animorphs are Andalites is screwing with his expertise. He did pull off a pretty big win in the last book. I think Visser 3's problems as a leader in the modern era go beyond just the false assumption that he is opposed by Andalites. Killing his subordinates constantly, for one. And also just generally being pretty bad at the kind of subterfuge that the current stage of the invasion requires, which is why it's interesting that his plan to track down Aldrea is to use stealth and subterfuge.
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# ? May 31, 2021 07:31 |
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Epicurius posted:The Hork-Bajir Chronicles-Chapter 12 This isn't necessarily true, the Arn could have set a biological clock for war every 57 years or whatever as a means of population control and preventing the Hork-Bajir from developing any kind of civilization. Hork-Bajir don't seem to live very long, so it's possible Dak has never met someone who remembers it, if it's towards the end of the cycle.
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# ? May 31, 2021 07:57 |
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"Esplin" is a really satisfying name to say.
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# ? May 31, 2021 08:25 |
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Epicurius posted:"You know, there are four Andalites. If you wait, you can probably kill them all with one blast." And what a grand irony it is that when he eventually subplants everyone above him who doesn't bother listening to him, he falls into the exact same trap of hubris that they did, ignoring everyone below him who might actually be on to something or just outright silencing dissent through violence. The only thing keeping the Yeerks from scoring horrifying blowout victories was no one listening to Esplin, and then Esplin listening to no one...
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# ? May 31, 2021 09:22 |
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I think it's a big misstep to make Visser Three (think the cat's out of the bag on this spoiler) a thoughtful, smart, erudite character here. I can buy him as an arrogant megalomaniac narcissist in the main series - villains like that aren't actually interesting, certainly they're less interesting than more intelligent villains like his twin brother or Visser One or even the lacklustre-now-that-we've-revisited-him David, but hey, it's a children's series and if you want to have a cartoonish villain that's fine; such people do exist in real life and do attain great power in real life. (I believe this more than ever after Trump.) But the idea that he used to be someone like this, and has now changed into who he is... sorry, nope. This should have just been a different, one-off character.Tree Bucket posted:"Esplin" is a really satisfying name to say. Agreed and also probably a real word or an approximation of one; I remember KA saying she used to make up all her words based off real ones. "Nothlit" is an anagram of "Hilton" and Visser is the Dutch surname version of Fisher. (edit: I just googled it and Esplin is an obscure Scottish surname.) Also, correct me if I'm wrong - are Seerow and Barafin the only Andalites we've seen whose names don't begin with vowels? Aldrea, Aximili, Elfangor, Alloran, Arbron...
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# ? May 31, 2021 11:20 |
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The Jahar was named after Alloran's wife iirc.
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# ? May 31, 2021 11:52 |
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nine-gear crow posted:And what a grand irony it is that when he eventually subplants everyone above him who doesn't bother listening to him, he falls into the exact same trap of hubris that they did, ignoring everyone below him who might actually be on to something or just outright silencing dissent through violence. The only thing keeping the Yeerks from scoring horrifying blowout victories was no one listening to Esplin, and then Esplin listening to no one... We’ve seen what infestation has done to Alloran, so it’s not a far stretch to imagine that decades(?) of sustained psychological warfare against his host has done some damage to Esplin’s psyche (and risk assessment). Either through the sheer effort of subduing the mind of an Andalite military commander or (more interestingly, I think) Alloran waging an internal war of his own against the Visser. E: Epicurius posted:Also, this isn't related to this book, but I saw it and thought of Tobias: Did you know that thermals are warm updrafts of air, rising in a column? Bibliotechno Music fucked around with this message at 15:17 on May 31, 2021 |
# ? May 31, 2021 15:14 |
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Epicurius posted:Also, this isn't related to this book, but I saw it and thought of Tobias: This reminded me of when I visited Yellowstone late last year—there was a Red-Tail that was actually hovering right above the shore of Lake Yellowstone at sunset, riding the breeze. Almost as soon as I got my camera out, he dropped down to pick up a mouse, and I got the whole thing on camera (Albeit slightly out of focus ) Second coolest thing I got on camera that day, Yellowstone is awesome.
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# ? Jun 1, 2021 02:41 |
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Chapter 20 Dak Hamee quote:the middle of the night I woke. I told Aldrea to sleep. And I waited. in much wisdom is much grief, and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow.-Ecclesiastes 1:18 Chapter 21 Aldrea quote:We went to a different place, along a walkway, down more stairs. Just another Arn hole in the wall, at first. But then Quatzhinnikon touched a blue pad set into one wall. Good job, Dak. Also, what must it be like to learn your religion is a lie, and you're not really the chosen one, but the result of a lab error?
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# ? Jun 1, 2021 05:08 |
The obvious question is whether this came out before The Matrix Reloaded- I'm 99% sure it did.
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# ? Jun 1, 2021 05:15 |
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Wait... how does that relate to the Matrix? I barely remember the sequels. (And yeah, it looks like the second Matrix movie came out in '03)
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# ? Jun 1, 2021 05:28 |
Neo learns in Reloaded that he's not the chosen one but rather an expected anomaly. I'm not getting into whether that was the machines loving with him, but it's a similar revelation.
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# ? Jun 1, 2021 05:31 |
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The Arn are not cool dudes but I still like them because they are represented to us by a fussy old man who is constantly annoyed at the antics of the main characters.
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# ? Jun 1, 2021 06:13 |
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Maybe it's a nice change of pace that the ancient race who built all the old technologies are secretly all still around and living in a society, rather than the typical long-dead civilization that inexplicably left behind functioning machines, but this still feels out of left field. In all these thousands of years no one has ever upset the balance before, for any reason, including any Arn or past seers? It took a simultaneous invasion by multiple alien species? I guess for a one-off children's book you pretty much have to paint with a fairly broad brush.
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# ? Jun 1, 2021 10:38 |
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Fuschia tude posted:Maybe it's a nice change of pace that the ancient race who built all the old technologies are secretly all still around and living in a society, rather than the typical long-dead civilization that inexplicably left behind functioning machines, but this still feels out of left field. In all these thousands of years no one has ever upset the balance before, for any reason, including any Arn or past seers? It took a simultaneous invasion by multiple alien species? Hork Bajir don't exactly have robust information storage structures. Could easily be that it has been disrupted, many times, and doesn't survive the lifespan of the seer.
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# ? Jun 1, 2021 11:35 |
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Getting serious shades of the Wookiees in Star Wars here. The Star Wars EU revealed that Kashyyyk was an artificially terraformed planet whose forests were intended for agricultural purposes, and the Wookiees were imported by the race that did the terraforming to be caretakers for the planet's forests.
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# ? Jun 1, 2021 13:21 |
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Saw this interpretation of an Andalite on twitter today and it reminded me of the 'no torso' thing from the first pages of the thread:
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# ? Jun 1, 2021 20:58 |
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Cythereal posted:Getting serious shades of the Wookiees in Star Wars here. The Star Wars EU revealed that Kashyyyk was an artificially terraformed planet whose forests were intended for agricultural purposes, and the Wookiees were imported by the race that did the terraforming to be caretakers for the planet's forests. If memory serves, there was a cultural taboo about using claws for violence there as well.
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# ? Jun 1, 2021 21:56 |
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Sorry, personal issues means I need 5o put off the next two chapters until tomorrow. Sorry again about that. And I'm pretty sure the Star Wars Wookie lore postdated this book. I think it comes from the 2013 video game Knights of the Old Republic.
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# ? Jun 2, 2021 05:15 |
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The secret species controlling everything comes from the original game, which would have been '04, I think. I played through it not too long ago and don't remember any lore dump regarding the Wookiees, but it would fit in with other things in the game. Using claws in anger was definitely a crime in KOTOR 1 though. Either way, both that game and the MMO come out well after the book.
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# ? Jun 2, 2021 05:24 |
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So basically there is an Andalite Ki-Adi-Mundi out there at this moment going "What about the Yeerk attack on the Hork-Bajir?" to Alloran via hologram. Gotcha.
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# ? Jun 2, 2021 09:36 |
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The last transmission of Seerow. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asssf6oPMYY
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# ? Jun 2, 2021 18:02 |
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Chapter 22 Esplin 9466 quote:Fitting in with the Hork-Bajir had been pitifully easy. The host body I’d taken was named Fet Mashar. His friends had seen him taken into a fighter. They had seen him being dragged away by Gedds. Little creepily intimate there, honestly. Chapter 23 Aldrea quote:It took us a day to learn the mind-control techniques the Arn used to control their monsters. I just want to say, honestly, I love Dak here. He understands this whole thing so much better than Aldrea does, and he understands that he and his people are being dragged into a war that they don't want to fight, and he realizes he's going to do terrible things, and that even if they "win", it's his people who are going to suffer.
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# ? Jun 3, 2021 04:27 |
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quote:“You ask me to kill my own people today and to lead my people in killing their brothers,” Dak said. “You say they are not Hork-Bajir, but Yeerks. But when the dead have given up their souls to Mother Sky, there will be Hork-Bajir bodies lying dead.” Kind of tangental, but this is pretty much word for word the exact reason why the whole "we can't kill helpless yeerks in their pool" debate always fell flat for me. It's literally the only time you CAN kill them without also killing another (usually innocent) creature. It's a tragedy that never really seems to get enough focus and I'm glad Dak really draws attention to it here.
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# ? Jun 3, 2021 06:17 |
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It's weird to feel "proud" of a character, but Dak Hamee mustering up the strength to tell Aldrea to piss off and let him face this his own way was really great. He's come a long way since we met him.
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# ? Jun 3, 2021 19:28 |
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He tells Aldrea to be quiet several times...quote:“You’ve come to understand we Hork-Bajir very well in so short a time,” Dak said coldly. “A simple, repeated message for a simple people.” Good job, Dak! You are great.
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# ? Jun 3, 2021 19:38 |
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The terrifying moment of being swarmed by 100 hosed up monsters made Esplin need to assemble his own collection of hosed up monster morphs so he wouldn't be scared ever again.
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# ? Jun 3, 2021 21:17 |
Isn't the Lerdethak the morph he used when they were in the Amazon?
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# ? Jun 3, 2021 21:37 |
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Remalle posted:Isn't the Lerdethak the morph he used when they were in the Amazon? Yep! It sounded familiar so I checked.
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# ? Jun 3, 2021 21:50 |
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CidGregor posted:Kind of tangental, but this is pretty much word for word the exact reason why the whole "we can't kill helpless yeerks in their pool" debate always fell flat for me. It's literally the only time you CAN kill them without also killing another (usually innocent) creature. It's a tragedy that never really seems to get enough focus and I'm glad Dak really draws attention to it here. I don't think the debate in the books is "Should we kill Yeerks in the pools", exactly. The Animorphs set out to destroy the Yeerk pool in the first book. At another point, they destroy the Kadrona Ray, knowing it's going to kill Yeerks, and the only time they feel moral qualms is when they learn the Yeerks are willing to kill the hosts of the dead Yeerks. They're even ok with putting the oatmeal in the pool, even though they know it's going to destroy the Yeerks' sanity. It becomes a moral debate in a case like Elfangor's from the Andalite Chronicle, where it's "These Yeerks are under our control and helpless. Should we treat them like POWs, or should we kill them all?" That was the debate between Elfangor and Alloran. Elfangor's argument was "These are our prisoners now. We have a moral and legal duty to take them back to the Andalite Homeworld and keep them in confinement", and Alloran's was "No, these are THINGS that don't deserve the rights of prisoners, and I outrank you, so kill them all." If anything, this book complicates the issue even more, because we find out there are Yeerks who are psychologically incapable of taking a host at all. These are Yeerk civilians who can never be soldiers, but destroying the Yeerk pool would kill them to. Is that justified? And you can maybe argue it is, because, after all, there's been plenty of area bombing of cities that led to the intentional death of civilians in Earth history, but it does complicate the question.
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# ? Jun 3, 2021 22:29 |
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It sort of depends - presumably they wouldn't waste space on an invasion ship carrying yeerks who are unwilling or unable to take a host? Or even if they do bring them along, are they not basically using their own people as hostages against more moralistic races? A bit like a modern dictator - topple me and you'll hurt my people more than you'll hurt me!
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# ? Jun 3, 2021 23:15 |
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# ? Apr 28, 2024 04:51 |
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Strategic Tea posted:It sort of depends - presumably they wouldn't waste space on an invasion ship carrying yeerks who are unwilling or unable to take a host? Well the yeerks do have the ability to communicate amongst themselves in the pool, and even use limited technology (the simulations and such that Esplin studied andalites from), if I've interpreted that correctly. So there could be a bunch of yeerks running logistics and the like from the pool. Also at least for now there's a huge backlog of too many yeerks, not enough hosts, so those who don't want hosts can move themselves to the back of the line without causing too much issues I guess. which would make them not frontline soldiers, but still part of the war effort
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# ? Jun 4, 2021 00:40 |