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Arc Hammer
Mar 4, 2013

Got any deathsticks?
Well to me that reads like he'd been doing a pretty lovely job in the run up to his death and his successor was just around to surrender.

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Chocobo
Oct 15, 2012


Here comes a new challenger!
Oven Wrangler

Arcsquad12 posted:

Well to me that reads like he'd been doing a pretty lovely job in the run up to his death and his successor was just around to surrender.
Nah, basically the premise was Luo Ji had set up a system that would, with the press of a button, broadcast the coordinates of Trisolaris through the rest of the universe, which would effectively doom both worlds and both races to die. He used the threat of Mutually Assured Destruction to leverage a truce. The Trisolarans knew that he was fully willing and capable of burning down the whole house the instant he thought they were up to something, so they didn't make any attempt while he was the Swordholder. The Trisolarans also knew that his successor was softhearted and wouldn't be capable of dooming all humanity without hesitation. Literally within seconds of him handing over the kill switch and leaving the room, the aliens launch an attack at the gravity-wave antennas that would have been used to make the broadcast, eliminating the threat of MAD and effectively conquering the Earth.

That's an extremely condensed version, the author spends entire chapters building Luo Ji's resolve and explaining how human society and culture changed over the years to even allow a softhearted person to be elected successor. loving love that series.

Arc Hammer
Mar 4, 2013

Got any deathsticks?

Chocobo posted:

Nah, basically the premise was Luo Ji had set up a system that would, with the press of a button, broadcast the coordinates of Trisolaris through the rest of the universe, which would effectively doom both worlds and both races to die. He used the threat of Mutually Assured Destruction to leverage a truce. The Trisolarans knew that he was fully willing and capable of burning down the whole house the instant he thought they were up to something, so they didn't make any attempt while he was the Swordholder. The Trisolarans also knew that his successor was softhearted and wouldn't be capable of dooming all humanity without hesitation. Literally within seconds of him handing over the kill switch and leaving the room, the aliens launch an attack at the gravity-wave antennas that would have been used to make the broadcast, eliminating the threat of MAD and effectively conquering the Earth.

That's an extremely condensed version, the author spends entire chapters building Luo Ji's resolve and explaining how human society and culture changed over the years to even allow a softhearted person to be elected successor. loving love that series.

Well that makes more sense. What I posted would be more in line with a Douglas Adams quote.

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

how can we not talk about family
when family's all that we got?
it doesn’t make more sense, if it was accomplished in seconds they could have attacked the gravity wave antennas at any time

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









3 body problem is relentlessly contrived but it is a fascinatingly different style of story telling, you can feel the internal cultural whiplash of things not going the way you expect them to.

Machado de Assis
Dec 12, 2005

indigi posted:

it doesn’t make more sense, if it was accomplished in seconds they could have attacked the gravity wave antennas at any time

To be more accurate, seconds after the handover, weapons that were placed just outside Earth's sensor range were activated, banking on the new Swordholder not having the guts to push the button in the few minutes warning Earth would have before the weapons reached Earth

My favorite 3 body problem thing is how the narrative takes for granted the role and position of political commisars in the future space force

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

how can we not talk about family
when family's all that we got?
why is it even some dudes responsibility, it should just be an automatic response. if weapons armed = yes then broadcast

Bug Squash
Mar 18, 2009

I see no possible problems with an automated doomsday device. Especially one you need to react to never before seen technology from a much more advanced enemy.

a kitten
Aug 5, 2006

Because there's a whole book full of context for it that is maybe a lot to try to put into a post about small things in scifi stories that blew your mind

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:

indigi posted:

why is it even some dudes responsibility, it should just be an automatic response. if weapons armed = yes then broadcast
I mean, that might be the message of the story. An automatic MAD system that truly assures destruction > human controlled system that can prevent an accidental doomsday but also fail to respond to an actual attack.

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

how can we not talk about family
when family's all that we got?

Bug Squash posted:

I see no possible problems with an automated doomsday device. Especially one you need to react to never before seen technology from a much more advanced enemy.

the human system is perfect (???)

endocriminologist
May 17, 2021

SUFFERINGLOVER:press send + soul + earth lol
inncntsoul:ok

(inncntsoul has left the game)

ARCHON_MASTER:lol
MAMMON69:lol
i am not very well read so the main twist in blindsight mega blew me away

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

how can we not talk about family
when family's all that we got?
there was a twist in Blindsight?

Bug Squash
Mar 18, 2009

indigi posted:

the human system is perfect (???)

The human system failed. So would have any automated system. The Trisolarans were throwing intelligent protons at Earth. There would simply be no way to automate a defence when you couldn't predict what an attack looked like (nevermind the eventual false positive).

Earth was doomed from the start. Their advanced technology wasn't even their greatest advantage. They were capable of a resolve far greater than mankind. When Earth was discovered the entire planets resources were dedicated to a one shot hundreds year long plan to conquer it. When we had a gun to their head, all they needed to do was wait for the hand to waiver, regardless of how long it took.

RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

Bug Squash posted:

The human system failed. So would have any automated system. The Trisolarans were throwing intelligent protons at Earth. There would simply be no way to automate a defence when you couldn't predict what an attack looked like (nevermind the eventual false positive).

Earth was doomed from the start. Their advanced technology wasn't even their greatest advantage. They were capable of a resolve far greater than mankind. When Earth was discovered the entire planets resources were dedicated to a one shot hundreds year long plan to conquer it. When we had a gun to their head, all they needed to do was wait for the hand to waiver, regardless of how long it took.

Seems pretty dumb of humanity to not pull the trigger immediately anyway then

RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Jun 1, 2021

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

how can we not talk about family
when family's all that we got?

Bug Squash posted:

When we had a gun to their head, all they needed to do was wait for the hand to waiver, regardless of how long it took.

that's why you give the trigger to a robot, whose hand will not waver

Bug Squash
Mar 18, 2009

indigi posted:

that's why you give the trigger to a robot, whose hand will not waver

When every computer system is wide open to the sophons? Crazy.

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

how can we not talk about family
when family's all that we got?
just put it in an anti-sophon box. this isn't difficult

Bug Squash
Mar 18, 2009

indigi posted:

just put it in an anti-sophon box. this isn't difficult

When the sophons have prevented the development of anti-sophon technology?!

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

how can we not talk about family
when family's all that we got?
I mean if all computers are vulnerable then the gravity broadcaster would never be a viable deterrent in the first place, unless the entire system were somehow analog. clearly there's some limit to what sophons can do

endocriminologist
May 17, 2021

SUFFERINGLOVER:press send + soul + earth lol
inncntsoul:ok

(inncntsoul has left the game)

ARCHON_MASTER:lol
MAMMON69:lol

indigi posted:

there was a twist in Blindsight?

Twist might be wrong but the whole consciousness being an aberration in the universe was like woaaaaah to young me

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

how can we not talk about family
when family's all that we got?
oh yeah that was a pretty neat version of misanthropy

The Last Call
Sep 9, 2011

Rehabilitating sinner
I was a young kid and I was watching this crazy new show that had airplanes and aliens, it was called Robotech.

In it I saw five things that I remember surprising me even then because hey cartoons didn't do this stuff.

1. The main character Rick spys on a girl getting a shower and pretty sure they showed her.

2. One of the main characters Roy dies. A character dying?! In a kids show?! What madness was this.

3. The Earth is absolutely wrecked by the Zentradi who with their massive amada absolutely blast the surface of the earth to kingdom come killing ever human save for a few survivors and those on the SDF-1 itself

4. Before the final episode the baddie in a christmas episode sets off numerous explosions in santas across the city. Merry Christmas!

5. This was the big one, the thing that got burned into my mind as a kid. The bad guy Khyron manages to get his grounded ship flyable, he could get off planet easy but what does he decide? He wants to get those drat humans. So he launched an attack on the only rebuilt city and a brutal fight ensues. It takes a shot at the SDF1 hitting it (and in the cartoon supposedly destroyed the SDF2 but this never made any sense even as kid as there was clearly only one ever SDF) Despite the damage various characters race to the bridge of the SDF1 with the whole bridge crew reuniting to tackle this threat and the SDF-1 in it's robot form begins to rise up, now the SDF1 by this point was in not so great shape, they only got one single shot of it's massive cannons to destroy the Zentradi ship and so they fire! The cannons disintegrate as it's final shot roars off and strikes the Zentradi ship! But it's a partial blow and not a direct hit, the ship is now crippled so what does Khyron decide to do? Why take everyone with him of course, he sets a direct course for the SDF 1 itself. Every mech and gun placement on SFD1 try to blast the incoming Zentradi ship. And surely they're going to triumph right, I mean the good guys always win in the end! Yeah well:



There's no way to avoid it and the Zentradi ship crashes through the SDF-1 splitting it almost in half and crashes into the city exploding in a massive explosion. The SDF-1 itself torn asunder falls back earthside and crashes into the water where it had previously been resting. The bridge crew? Dead except for one.

I have never forgot the image of the Zentradi ship crashing into the SDF-1 nor the music that played during it. It's burned into my memory.

Back then for a cartoon to do this kind of thing was just mind blowing. It's one reason I hold Robotech in good regard even if purist cry bloody murder.

Many decades later I bought a replica of the SFD1 and it currently rest on the shelf above my computer in it's robot state. It cost several hundred but I love the thing.

The Last Call fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Jun 1, 2021

Arc Hammer
Mar 4, 2013

Got any deathsticks?
I dont think people have an issue with Robotech itself. Robotech is fine and the Macross stuff comes across pretty well. The anger is mainly directed at Harmony Gold for being The Worst.

RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

Arcsquad12 posted:

I dont think people have an issue with Robotech itself. Robotech is fine and the Macross stuff comes across pretty well. The anger is mainly directed at Harmony Gold for being The Worst.

It's pretty impressive how many things they hosed up or with, isn't it?

Arc Hammer
Mar 4, 2013

Got any deathsticks?

RBA Starblade posted:

It's pretty impressive how many things they hosed up or with, isn't it?

I only know about the Macross/Robotech and the Battletech fuckups what else is in there?

The Last Call
Sep 9, 2011

Rehabilitating sinner

Arcsquad12 posted:

I dont think people have an issue with Robotech itself. Robotech is fine and the Macross stuff comes across pretty well. The anger is mainly directed at Harmony Gold for being The Worst.

Harmony Gold definitely deserves all the poo poo for how they acted over the years since the cartoon came out. They were very much the worse.

But no, some people scoffed at Robotech for daring to combine three shows into one. This was quite the case especially in the 90's when anime started to take off. The show was ripped for that and accused of butchery of the source material. The later Harmony Gold shenanigans turned the conversation into how horrible HG itself was.

It's ironic but shows like Power Rangers probably helped people not mind how it was created. They kinda got it after the US used the Japanese stuff to make a new show that became so popular.

One thing never talked about is how the creators of Macross and the two shows that were added to create the Robotech saga loved it themselves. The other two shows that were added to Macross to make Robotech had bombed hard in Japan so they were quite happy it got a new lease on life over seas, plus they were able to sell some more toys.

Arc Hammer
Mar 4, 2013

Got any deathsticks?

The Last Call posted:

One thing never talked about is how the creators of Macross and the two shows that were added to create the Robotech saga loved it themselves. The other two shows that were added to Macross to make Robotech had bombed hard in Japan so they were quite happy it got a new lease on life over seas, plus they were able to sell some more toys.

Well it's good someone was happy about it. It's funny when you get stories like this from Japan where they're just happy people are watching their stuff and then you look stateside with some No True Scotsman arguments going on about besmirching an original with a chop job licensing scuffle.

The Last Call
Sep 9, 2011

Rehabilitating sinner

Arcsquad12 posted:

Well it's good someone was happy about it. It's funny when you get stories like this from Japan where they're just happy people are watching their stuff and then you look stateside with some No True Scotsman arguments going on about besmirching an original with a chop job licensing scuffle.

In the 90's and early 2000's that all you heard any time the show was ever mentioned. It was annoying, especially as most of those talking about it had not even seen it. But for those of us who had it left an impact, I certainly didn't know what anime was at the time. It was a cartoon, that's all. Like many others I only learned later why it was the way it was in my teenage years at which point I tried to see what else was out there.

RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

Arcsquad12 posted:

I only know about the Macross/Robotech and the Battletech fuckups what else is in there?

They got designs from a whole mess of shows, not just Macross

The Last Call
Sep 9, 2011

Rehabilitating sinner

RBA Starblade posted:

They got designs from a whole mess of shows, not just Macross

They also got smacked down hard by a Judge and it's why Hasbro can make certain designs now.

Plus some stuff came back in Battletech/Mechwarrior with some redesigns.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

I think that something special can come out of taking liberties with localizing a piece of media, whether it's just localizing jokes or if it's a total rebuild and re-edit of an originally mediocre series.

Vavrek
Mar 2, 2013

I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

endocriminologist posted:

Twist might be wrong but the whole consciousness being an aberration in the universe was like woaaaaah to young me

To me, the twist (or a twist/revelation, anyway) near the end of Blindsight was that Sarasti was a meat-puppet for the ship's AI. It's not clear how much, if any, control the actual Sarasti had. Maybe he had a lot! Maybe he was literally just a peripheral for the computer to interact more easily with humans.

Megillah Gorilla
Sep 22, 2003

If only all of life's problems could be solved by smoking a professor of ancient evil texts.



Bread Liar
If you want to talk about shows getting butchered - Battle of the Planets / G-Force.


Whoah, that's a really unfortunate salute they've got going there.


I loved the show as a kid, but I tried watching it again as an adult and, good lord, it made no goddamn sense.

They had so obviously taken bits from multiple episodes and just spliced them together with no care for how they worked. And when things were too ridiculous even for that, they inserted 7 Zark 7, a robot who lived at the bottom of the sea and didn't even exist in the original cartoon, to exposit some bullshit "Oh no, the giant insect robot suddenly changed into a giant spaceship robot off camera for some reason!" and just generally pad out the running time.

frogge
Apr 7, 2006


Just watched Stargate SG-1's episode, "A Matter of Time" and they handle time dilation from a black hole really well.

Bug Squash
Mar 18, 2009

frogge posted:

Just watched Stargate SG-1's episode, "A Matter of Time" and they handle time dilation from a black hole really well.

That episode sells "overwhelming natural disaster" pretty well imo. Starts with the team looking at a still picture of one of the red shirt teams that hasn't come back from a routine mission. But the still picture is a live feed. They zoom in on the corner of the picture one of the men is looking at. Goddamn black hole is heading for the planet and the team are so highly time dilated they are in ultra slow motion.

There's no possibility of rescue, so they decide to close the link rather than trying to observe the black hole for science ("watching good men die in slow motion" says O'Neil). But they can't. Turns out gravity is transmitted through the wormhole, so the Stargate is dilated as well and is closing so slowly the whole Earth is going to be pulled through this 5 meter hole as the black hole gets closer. As the episode goes on time dilation gets more extreme, and people who leave the compound for days come back to the command team for whom nearly no time has passed at all.

Great concept, great episode. Proper disaster movie quality going on.

endocriminologist
May 17, 2021

SUFFERINGLOVER:press send + soul + earth lol
inncntsoul:ok

(inncntsoul has left the game)

ARCHON_MASTER:lol
MAMMON69:lol

Vavrek posted:

To me, the twist (or a twist/revelation, anyway) near the end of Blindsight was that Sarasti was a meat-puppet for the ship's AI. It's not clear how much, if any, control the actual Sarasti had. Maybe he had a lot! Maybe he was literally just a peripheral for the computer to interact more easily with humans.

Yesss that was also cool

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

how can we not talk about family
when family's all that we got?
that felt really cheap to me. “oh haha you thought this one thing that was supported by the entirety of the text to this point? actually it’s this other thing I just made up”

frogge
Apr 7, 2006


It was perfectly paced and kept the tension extremely well for 90s/00s broadcast tv.

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Fivemarks
Feb 21, 2015

Chocobo posted:

Nah, basically the premise was Luo Ji had set up a system that would, with the press of a button, broadcast the coordinates of Trisolaris through the rest of the universe, which would effectively doom both worlds and both races to die. He used the threat of Mutually Assured Destruction to leverage a truce. The Trisolarans knew that he was fully willing and capable of burning down the whole house the instant he thought they were up to something, so they didn't make any attempt while he was the Swordholder. The Trisolarans also knew that his successor was softhearted and wouldn't be capable of dooming all humanity without hesitation. Literally within seconds of him handing over the kill switch and leaving the room, the aliens launch an attack at the gravity-wave antennas that would have been used to make the broadcast, eliminating the threat of MAD and effectively conquering the Earth.

That's an extremely condensed version, the author spends entire chapters building Luo Ji's resolve and explaining how human society and culture changed over the years to even allow a softhearted person to be elected successor. loving love that series.

Doesn't it then go into some pretty Authoritarian and nationalist wank, like entire paragraphs about how humanity will be cured of a desire for democracy because they'll see it doesn't work? Isn't Liu Cixin like, a huge piece of poo poo?

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