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Play posted:Does anyone know if the stars, planets, moons and satellites actually orbit and rotate in Star Citizen at this point in time? Planets rotate, so that they have a day/night cycle. No orbits, that's the wrong kind of fidelity in a space game. But LOOK AT THAT CARPET TEXTURE!
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Jun 3, 2021 23:05
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Play posted:Rockstar could never achieve the kind of things that Star Citizen is promising and has the good sense not to even try. Especially regarding this server meshing nonsense which along with a few other things is probably what I find most troublesome about their plans. The server meshing was silly from the get go. I'm still anticipating that moment where CR has to walk it back, though the way he plays it he never ever will and will just keep cashing those checks. I don't believe anything orbits anything, but maybe planets spin?
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Jun 3, 2021 23:57
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The inevitable Netflix documentary about all this will be so funny.
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Jun 4, 2021 00:37
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The Titanic posted:The server meshing was silly from the get go. I'm still anticipating that moment where CR has to walk it back, though the way he plays it he never ever will and will just keep cashing those checks. Well it turns out I'm not the best at .... erm , you know, networking type stuff ... so I absolve my self of that
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Jun 4, 2021 01:20
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Jun 4, 2021 01:27
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Wait, wait, wait. There was a new episode of Inside Star Citizen today and we don't have a recap. For shame! I want to know how much Jared we have to skip this week. On this episode there is apparently some new age religious cult leader talking about the bengal, and something about the teams working on transit signs (?!!? transit signs? wtf) and like half teh video is Jared. cool
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Jun 4, 2021 04:00
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trucutru posted:Wait, wait, wait. There was a new episode of Inside Star Citizen today and we don't have a recap. For shame! I want to know how much Jared we have to skip this week. Sorry, the last few ISC's have been Jared making whatever hay he can with the assets they already shoved out the door, and devs making lots of noises about "Eventually," "Big Step Towards," "When We Have," etc etc. Sometimes even their propaganda is just too banal to repeat.
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Jun 4, 2021 04:12
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trucutru posted:Wait, wait, wait. There was a new episode of Inside Star Citizen today and we don't have a recap. For shame! I want to know how much Jared we have to skip this week. So far first half is listing everything the had to rework to make the Bengal in the state it is now, second half so far is showing off art assets for new gameplay loops (sans gameplay itself of course, CIGs two programmers don't have time to code but their 500 artists have time to make unusable assets. Then they show off more renders and assets for other things
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Jun 4, 2021 04:14
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Skimming through a couple of these, the biggest pattern I see is that you never see in game videos of anything they talk about, except what's already in game (walking, flying ships) If the talk about a new feature, you never see a rudimentary version of it I. Action - they'll show render, stills of.mockups, but no crude alpha version in action
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Jun 4, 2021 04:20
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text editor posted:Skimming through a couple of these, the biggest pattern I see is that you never see in game videos of anything they talk about, except what's already in game (walking, flying ships) Yeah but you see, there was this point where the cult leader was like "and the Bengal has so many guns that when we tried to hit it with missiles we just couldn't penetrate its defenses" which is a thing that totally happened in SC (probably because missiles don't work for poo poo). Like a half hour fight against the bengal with a shitload of missiles been fired, as the point defense system shoots down each one with surgical precision (as things in SC tend to do) while our plucky heroes fight for their lives!
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Jun 4, 2021 04:28
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text editor posted:Skimming through a couple of these, the biggest pattern I see is that you never see in game videos of anything they talk about, except what's already in game (walking, flying ships) This has been the case for couple years now. Their development has been cut pretty much to the bone, ten minutes of show per week is enough to exhaust everything they're working on. The Citizens still delude themselves that there's this massive backlog of game that hasn't been seen, but the cold reality is that Chris has probably thrown away 4-5 full games worth of development at this point.
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Jun 4, 2021 04:37
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The Titanic posted:I think people have a hard time parsing this. I've come to refer to this social phenomenon as "Telescopism". Imagine a salesman is selling telescopes, and you and your partner go up to him. He tells you that you can see the moon with them, in such incredible detail. You, in your skepticism, ask for a demonstration. He sets up a telescope pointing at the moon, and asks you to only look at the moon through the telescope and cover your ears. You oblige him, looking at the moon only through the telescope, and plugging your ears with your fingers. It's initially dark, the end piece is covered, until the sounds of things shuffling mostly stop, and the salesman announces he's taking off the cover. You see a big moon with what looks like trees, water, cities, even little green men moving around. "This is incredible," you exclaim, "I have never seen the moon like this!" The salesman responds equally enthusiastic, but slightly out of breath, "Only with my telescope can you see the true nature of the moon! Keep looking at it, until I tell you to stop!" You do so, until the telescope you look through goes dark and black, as the salesman covers the end aperture. "You can stop looking now," the salesman eventually says, after the sounds of things shuffling cease. Finally being able to look at the salesman you ask, "May I buy this telescope?" The salesman replies "That telescope has already been sold, but I can make you another one, even better than this one, because there's new technology that allows you to see even more detail of the moon I want to use. I'll even send you regular updates about building the telescope, and all the incredible things you can see with it." You sign a contract with the salesman, give him a significant amount of money, and walk away with your partner. Your partner, having witnessed the exchange from their perspective, is cross with you. "How could you let that man swindle you like that? Did you not see the telescope was a cardboard tube? Did you not see him use a trunk of props? Did you not see him putting on a puppet show for you?" they ask. "I don't know what you're talking about," you say to your partner, "I only saw the moon." Bootcha fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Jun 4, 2021 |
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Jun 4, 2021 05:07
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I'm ready to start on Wing Commander Academy. This has to be better than the movie.
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Jun 4, 2021 05:38
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Lammasu posted:I'm ready to start on Wing Commander Academy. This has to be better than the movie. I don't know whether to hope you're right about that, or worry that you're right about that.
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Jun 4, 2021 08:22
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Clicking through this video, I see Bootcha made an appearance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYs_zn2pTZo&t=794s A bit after 13:15. I haven't watched the whole video. He said "Robert's vision" a couple of times. Beexoffel fucked around with this message at 09:12 on Jun 4, 2021 |
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Jun 4, 2021 09:10
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The video is trash. It's made to look like it's carefully considering both sides but the verdict is still, essentially, "it would be so cool if it happened!" It's the sort of thing you'd make if you had a mandate to be objective but had a vested interest in star citizen
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Jun 4, 2021 09:45
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https://twitter.com/listening2day/status/1399122846375317504 New player, finally understand the draw and the hype
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Jun 4, 2021 10:21
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Why is CR even so obsessed with super detailed simulation of all systems and minuteae? Everything CR has ever done has been cinematic arcade games. And that's clearly what he's interested in, plus he doesn't understand physics. Even X-Wing was really arcadey and simple, but still more of a simulation than any Wing Commander games. The cynical answer is that it's a way to keep siphoning money from rubes indefintely if they believe they will get the Matrix, but it would be a lot more sensible to make a cinematic space arcade/adventure/mmo that feels real instead of having every bean simulated in your breakfast plate.
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Jun 4, 2021 11:13
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Focussing on minutiae also means you don't have to deal with the trainwreck that is the entire picture.
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Jun 4, 2021 11:16
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lobsterminator posted:Why is CR even so obsessed with super detailed simulation of all systems and minuteae? Everything CR has ever done has been cinematic arcade games. And that's clearly what he's interested in, plus he doesn't understand physics. Even X-Wing was really arcadey and simple, but still more of a simulation than any Wing Commander games. He WAS originally going to just make a cinematic space shooty game. Then he discovered every time he spouted more bollocks pulled out of his rear end gullible neckbeards threw money at him and , well, here we are.
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Jun 4, 2021 11:23
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lobsterminator posted:Why is CR even so obsessed with super detailed simulation of all systems and minuteae? Everything CR has ever done has been cinematic arcade games. And that's clearly what he's interested in, plus he doesn't understand physics. Even X-Wing was really arcadey and simple, but still more of a simulation than any Wing Commander games. CR has always been obsessed with minutae, and does not know how to properly look at an overall picture, or how to trim the fat from an overly complex development to get back to a lean, slick game. Freelancer had literally all of the same issues where Chris was constantly focusing on "add this cool new thing it'll be awesome!" and totally failed to focus on getting what existed already to a playable, coherent state. He even said this himself about his own direction of the Wing Commander movie: CR on a Reddit AMA posted:2) I needed a producer that could do more than just do a good deal. I needed someone to help me on the set, to tell me hey Chris I know you want to do these 10 things but we only have money to do 5 things really well. So let's pick what they are and knock them out of the park and cut the others. This is what a strong creative producer does, and its what I've tried to do for other directors I've worked with over the last 10 years. Squadron 42 was what the original SC kickstarter pitch basically was, an updated Freelancer, and with the resources Clown Imperium have available to them you can see for yourself just how ready their "cinematic arcade game with the world's greatest mess hall scene*" is: Answer the Call *mess hall scene may or may not exist
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Jun 4, 2021 11:57
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I don't know if the original kickstarter pitch has been edited (I'm guessing not because it still talks about player-hosted multiplayer and modding), but stupid detail has been in from the startquote:Every spaceship is built from 100s of sub-components, many of them moving and articulating just like they would in the “real” world. If a component gets damaged during combat be prepared to feel the effects on your ship.
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Jun 4, 2021 12:35
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"Obsessed with details at the expense of the big picture" has been CR's modus operandi basically for ever. I think he's pathologically incapable of finishing a project, unless his boss* is breathing down his neck demanding the unfinished poo poo is cut so they can just loving release already. Also never optimising, all the WC games ran like dogshit unless you had the latest and greatest kit / waited a couple of years before you actually played them. From what I played of SC during free flys, this is still 100% true and verifiable (it ran like dogshit)  *Now that he's the CEO then this is basically only the Calders, actual players are stuffed 
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Jun 4, 2021 13:01
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trucutru posted:Only 64 weeks 'til the MERCHANTMAN jesus christ, that's almost 15 months with 2 teams, for a single internet spaceship. Whole games are made faster than this   . Isn't this just alien-colored cargoship?
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Jun 4, 2021 13:23
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commando in tophat posted:jesus christ, that's almost 15 months with 2 teams, for a single internet spaceship. Whole games are made faster than this We will not be bound! to our money
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Jun 4, 2021 13:50
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commando in tophat posted:jesus christ, that's almost 15 months with 2 teams, for a single internet spaceship. Whole games are made faster than this You see, it includes a bazaar and haggling simulator with almost sentient NPCs. It could be game by itself! And it's criminally underpriced, better but now because it's going to double in price soon.
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Jun 4, 2021 13:56
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There is no universe in which I believe this to be true. I have an Apex Legends shirt that the dev team gave us for supporting their in-game economy work. I note that this is a game that has tens of millions of unique players. I have had literally one person even mention it, and that's only because I was already interacting with them to pay for a hotel room. People don't just go around approaching people because of their shirts.
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Jun 4, 2021 14:08
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commando in tophat posted:jesus christ, that's almost 15 months with 2 teams, for a single internet spaceship. Whole games are made faster than this 
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Jun 4, 2021 14:10
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Fidelitious posted:There is no universe in which I believe this to be true. Every single time I wear my Dreamcast 9/9/99 t-shirt in public some stranger (always a dude) will give me a shout out about it, but I mean, that's Dreamcast.
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Jun 4, 2021 14:12
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lobsterminator posted:Why is CR even so obsessed with super detailed simulation of all systems and minuteae? Others have already explained the minuteae but CR is so obsessed with simulation because he believes that it will organically create gameplay. Just like some of the backers believe a commando's foot will displace snow and leave a proper impression of their soles on the ground (instead of a boot texture) so does CR believe that simulation will help generate gameplay and systems. Or at least he did at the start, when they were actually doing stuff like having hundreds of physics-aware cargo boxes in a ship (which crashed the game), or having ships with dozens of thrusters that were actually there (just invisible) that flew like poo poo, or millions upon millions of polygons on ships with fully rendered internal components also made with shitloads of polygons, or rotating elevators, and so on. But nowadays they are doing the same type of stuff as everyone else, like teleporting elevators and rendering trickery to try to keep polygon counts in check. So either CR realized his approach doesn't work (more like his employees are too incompetent to make his genius ideas work!) or he doesn't care anymore.
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Jun 4, 2021 14:14
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text editor posted:Skimming through a couple of these, the biggest pattern I see is that you never see in game videos of anything they talk about, except what's already in game (walking, flying ships) One of the rules of Star Citizen was not to show it in motion, only show jpegs of it. These demos follow that rule because they know it looks terrible as soon as it is in motion. With I guess an exception (sometimes) to their walk cycle (but not too far or too long) or to ships being in space, where you can pan along them as they fly in a straight line (any turning looks terrible, unless you are playing pretend and make your flying pattern look like it has actual flight dynamics).
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Jun 4, 2021 14:21
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trucutru posted:Yeah but you see, there was this point where the cult leader was like "and the Bengal has so many guns that when we tried to hit it with missiles we just couldn't penetrate its defenses" which is a thing that totally happened in SC (probably because missiles don't work for poo poo). The funnest stuff happening in the game is happening to all their fictional lore characters. They're fighting for places not available to players on places that don't exist, having raging battles with things nobody else can fight... oh it is so much fun. It's like Chris loves blade runner so much not only is he trying to copy what he can, he also took the last scene with Roy talking about all the things in his life and literally made a video game about telling you all the cool things you'll never get to see either. A+ video game excitement right there! I love NPCs that tell me how awesome stuff is that I can not do myself ever or even attempt. It's like I am actually the NPC and the NPCs are the players doing all the cool stuff while I'm stuck trying to walk on my preset spline to not glitch myself out and being in the background moving a box back and forth infinitely... Hmmm... I'm starting to see something. 
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Jun 4, 2021 14:28
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Dwesa posted:It's supposed to have bazaar, negotiation room, concealed weaponry and 'subtle detailing' It's designed by these guys, who have giant noses above their eyes:  Personally, not my favorite alien race in Star Citizen. I prefer the Xi'an:  But only because I'm a sucker for humanoid turtles. I love them in World of Warcraft too.
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Jun 4, 2021 14:31
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The Titanic posted:The funnest stuff happening in the game is happening to all their fictional lore characters. They're fighting for places not available to players on places that don't exist, having raging battles with things nobody else can fight... oh it is so much fun. It's to difficult to make NPCs that are impossible to tell apart from players, so instead CIG is training their players to become NPCs
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Jun 4, 2021 14:46
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Fidelitious posted:There is no universe in which I believe this to be true. Btw Legatus Navium is supposed to mean 'Diplomat of the Navy', but Latin word for fleet or navy was classis - e.g. Classis Germanica, naves is ships.
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Jun 4, 2021 14:48
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Sandweed posted:It's to difficult to make NPCs that are impossible to tell apart from players, so instead CIG is training their players to become NPCs I used to have lots of fun pretending to be a NPC in Ultima Online's noob island, watching new players rage and try all dialogue options to get me to interact.
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Jun 4, 2021 14:50
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smellmycheese posted:He WAS originally going to just make a cinematic space shooty game. Then he discovered every time he spouted more bollocks pulled out of his rear end gullible neckbeards threw money at him and , well, here we are. Some day the community will have to come to terms with the fact that they threw so much money at some guy from the 90's who didn't really understand technology today and was already equipped with a history of shifty behavior after he exited the industry, pretty much by force because he could not complete a project, that it is ultimately their fault they screwed up development of anything. They built a money tree, wishing it converted into a development fountain that spent good money on equality people to complete a project. Of course there may still be people out there who are all "oh we had a vote 7 years ago and all this is our fault and CR is innocently doing what we told him to do!" Despite Chris having no history to do anything anybody suggested ever in his history and especially in this video game unless you want to count the 10 for the Chairman where he said "yes absolutely" to literally every question that came in. Companies work on a budget because it's very common business practice and understanding to know that infinite time and infinite money never results in a good anything. You need constraints and deadlines and limits... and that's where people work best and how you build anything at all. Very basic stuff uses terminology like an iron triangle, and this concept consists of Time, Scope, and Cost, all things that need to be weighed and managed properly for a project to succeed. This is super basic business 101 that people have not held CIG to.. and now they are just a textbook example of failure. And as I've said before, CIG failed years ago when they blew past all their deadlines, and the integrity of their CEO as a leader blew to poo poo when (regardless of the rumors about his behavior to employees) "absolved himself" of the responsibility of upholding his promises to his customers. Sure sc may some day come out, but it is hugely beyond budget, massively out of scope, and took way too long. They failed every business best practice to be successful. The only reason they keep going is because apparently people love a train wreck and want to keep buying dlc for $$$$'s, which is totally fine. If they see value, more power to them. 
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Jun 4, 2021 14:55
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Out of curiosity - is there a summary of the promises made during the development of Freelancer? I keep hearing that it was advertised as having an independently developing universe, seamless landing on planets etc., until Microsoft cut out that nonsense, but I couldn't find anything specific from back in the days. The 2001 trailer that's linked on MobyGames does remind me of Star Citizen, but I'd be interested if there's some BBS discussions from back then that has the same pipedreams as the SC forum. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWr-yy7RCco EDIT: disregard this, there's a few links from wikipedia that I missed. I'm getting old. EDITEDIT: plus ça change: "One of Roberts' stated goals was to create a sense of scale. No space combat sim has yet been able to capture the magnitude of a massive capital ship. Freelancer looks as though it may change that, with enormous space stations and capital ships that truly dwarf your seemingly small fighter. Beyond the size, ship detail was remarkable, including moving parts and highly detailed textures. While Freelancer certainly has much in common with Roberts' own Privateer, the dynamic universe of the new game will provide a much richer experience. Roberts promised that the game will react to your actions - keep attacking trade routes and you'll cause prices to soar, and eventually, a bounty will be put on your head. Roberts opines that the space combat sim has been somewhat stagnant over the last few years, saying that improvements had been only " incremental" since the original Wing Commander and X-Wing. By adding a more accessible interface and a more dynamic world to Freelancer, Roberts is hoping to take the genre to the next level of sophistication in a revolutionary leap rather than in small steps." source: https://www.gamespot.com/articles/chris-roberts-back-in-the-game/1100-2452393/ Blackstone fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Jun 4, 2021 |
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Jun 4, 2021 15:28
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Fidelitious posted:There is no universe in which I believe this to be true. Nuh-uh! I have an Äventyrsspel t-shirt, and people comment on it a fair amount. But of course, that's probably more because they were such a foundational element of geek culture back in the day that anyone who remembers them is compelled on a deep emotional level to react.  Dwesa posted:I think Apex Legends players don't need affirmation from other Apex players about their financial choices. But I am pretty sure backers need some kind of affirmation from other cultists that their Legatus Naivium pledge rank isn't terminally stupid. The boat whisperer. But yes, this seems like a much more reasonable explanation. It's like a mating call from a species facing extinction: of course they'll rush to respond to such a unique opportunity.
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Jun 4, 2021 15:52
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Blackstone posted:Roberts opines that the space combat sim has been somewhat stagnant over the last few years, saying that improvements had been only " incremental" since the original Wing Commander and X-Wing. By adding a more accessible interface and a more dynamic world to Freelancer, Roberts is hoping to take the genre to the next level of sophistication in a revolutionary leap rather than in small steps." Yes. Mouse control of movement and speed, two “heal” buttons rather than just one (or none), and having random encounters between enemies of various allegiance to each other sure was more sophisticated than the systems management and actual 3D fighting you had to do in the Star Wars games.
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Jun 4, 2021 15:54
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