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Arc Hammer
Mar 4, 2013

Got any deathsticks?
It's funny because Roslin gives the New Caprica gestapo police a general pardon later in the series.

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Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009

📈📊🍪😋



Something that's always kind of bugged me about the BSG universe in all its iterations is language. i.e. why do the Colonials speak "English"? 2003 really went out of its way to avoid that question coming up, by not showing any humans who speak actual English until the very end, but watching '78 it really was kind of a big fat elephant in the room. Especially when they get to modern-day Earth in 1980 and spend the whole series just being regular, English-speaking dudes in San Francisco. Not even a "double dumbass on you" to mark them out, just a few (tiresome) stumbles over vocabulary words like "yahren" and not knowing what phones are.

it's frustrating to me because both series make it a point that multiple languages exist within the Colonies and are markers of a rich cultural mosaic; there's the scene with the Gemenese people starving and being denied supplies that go to the military first, and the fact that they speak Gemenese and have to be translated is a specifically called-out plot element. But that just makes it all the more glaring that the language issue just sits there unresolved as they travel farther and farther from home, including to the nazi not-Earth planet and also regular Earth, and keep finding less and less reason to ever pretend anyone in the universe speaks anything other than English. It casts a slight pall of farce over the whole thing which is only exacerbated when they start doing the much goofier and lighter-tone 1980 stuff.

I can't help but wonder if it came down to some kind of "Mormon Jesus spoke English lmao" thing

Data Graham fucked around with this message at 15:57 on May 28, 2021

BooDooBoo
Jul 14, 2005

That makes no sense to me at all.


https://fi.somethingawful.com/images/gangtags/severancemdr.gif

Data Graham posted:

Something that's always kind of bugged me about the BSG universe in all its iterations is language. i.e. why do the Colonials speak "English"? 2003 really went out of its way to avoid that question coming up, by not showing any humans who speak actual English until the very end, but watching '78 it really was kind of a big fat elephant in the room. Especially when they get to modern-day Earth in 1980 and spend the whole series just being regular, English-speaking dudes in San Francisco. Not even a "double dumbass on you" to mark them out, just a few (tiresome) stumbles over vocabulary words like "yahren" and not knowing what phones are.

it's frustrating to me because both series make it a point that multiple languages exist within the Colonies and are markers of a rich cultural mosaic; there's the scene with the Gemenese people starving and being denied supplies that go to the military first, and the fact that they speak Gemenese and have to be translated is a specifically called-out plot element. But that just makes it all the more glaring that the language issue just sits there unresolved as they travel farther and farther from home, including to the nazi not-Earth planet and also regular Earth, and keep finding less and less reason to ever pretend anyone in the universe speaks anything other than English. It casts a slight pall of farce over the whole thing which is only exacerbated when they start doing the much goofier and lighter-tone 1980 stuff.

I can't help but wonder if it came down to some kind of "Mormon Jesus spoke English lmao" thing

I don't think there was much thought going in in the 70's, it's a TV show, so they speak "English", and they just throw in some space words to spice it up. BSG80 probably had as much thought going into language as went into the rest of the show, which was mainly "Be cheap".

03? Well that was God and The Angels, obviously.

So in conclusion:

"Mormon Jesus spoke English" is kinda/sorta correct, but only in the BSG2003 version of the show.

Arc Hammer
Mar 4, 2013

Got any deathsticks?
The Passage.

Starbuck is a colossal rear end in a top hat and hypocrite to Kat this episode. It's a good episode overall but the Starbuck part where she's bullying Kat feels needlessly cruel and way out of place given when it takes place in the show's run.

Arc Hammer
Mar 4, 2013

Got any deathsticks?
The eye of Jupiter two parter is ridiculous even for the show's insistence on the existence of God. It's one thing for the show to use divine providence to explain one in a million coincidences like the Cylons and Humans showing up right before a supernova to get the marker to Earth. It's another thing for them pulling poo poo out of their asses like bucking all previous Cylon ressurections by downloading immediately on board a baseship rather than a Resurrection Ship. Or how they can still walk around on the planet for an entire hour after the supernova starts without getting instantly killed by giant radiation bursts or blinded by the light flashes.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Is there any update on the rebooted reboot?

Jose Valasquez fucked around with this message at 05:51 on Jun 3, 2021

sean10mm
Jun 29, 2005

It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, MAD-2R World
I haven't watched this in forever, which seasons are actually good and is there a good cut off in the narrative before the final, dogshit ending?

banned from Starbucks
Jul 18, 2004




sean10mm posted:

I haven't watched this in forever, which seasons are actually good and is there a good cut off in the narrative before the final, dogshit ending?

Just pretend the show is viewed through the eyes of Dee and stop when she offs herself.

Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

this is me posting irl

sean10mm posted:

I haven't watched this in forever, which seasons are actually good and is there a good cut off in the narrative before the final, dogshit ending?

There's different opinions on this, some people think it's great right up until just before the end, some people think shortly after New Caprica is about where to drop it. Sanguinia made a great post about the thematic/arc quality plunging after the Resurrection Ship arc, which is a really interesting take I haven't seen before.

With this show I think it's probably a safe bet to just watch until you don't want to any more.

Arc Hammer
Mar 4, 2013

Got any deathsticks?

banned from Starbucks posted:

Just pretend the show is viewed through the eyes of Dee and stop when she offs herself.

The correct ending.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEDjAFi7oJ4

Horizon Burning
Oct 23, 2019
:discourse:

sean10mm posted:

I haven't watched this in forever, which seasons are actually good and is there a good cut off in the narrative before the final, dogshit ending?

Seasons 1 and 2 are great, although Season 2 has one or two bad episodes (Black Market.) Season 3 is where the show starts getting real hit or miss, and it basically plunges off a cliff come Season 4. I don't even dislike the ending as much as most people but I've generally never has the urge to seriously re-watch anything beyond Season 2.

Arc Hammer
Mar 4, 2013

Got any deathsticks?
I'm finally over that hump of bad episodes in season 3. Everything from The Eye of Jupiter to A Day in the Life is so dull and plodding that I can't wait for Tyrol's worker revolution and Baltar's hilarious yorkshire accent.

Octy
Apr 1, 2010

I liked season 3, if only for this scene https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evodPpqb9H4

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009

📈📊🍪😋



Which, if I'm not misreading, is yet another thing with its ultimate source in BSG1980 :v:

There as a bit where Adama came down in a flying-saucer landing craft to deliberately spook the local cops and pick up some sick kids, and the whole "descending through the clouds" thing was a big climactic SFX showpiece

Regarde Aduck
Oct 19, 2012

Grimey Drawer

Data Graham posted:

Something that's always kind of bugged me about the BSG universe in all its iterations is language. i.e. why do the Colonials speak "English"? 2003 really went out of its way to avoid that question coming up, by not showing any humans who speak actual English until the very end, but watching '78 it really was kind of a big fat elephant in the room. Especially when they get to modern-day Earth in 1980 and spend the whole series just being regular, English-speaking dudes in San Francisco. Not even a "double dumbass on you" to mark them out, just a few (tiresome) stumbles over vocabulary words like "yahren" and not knowing what phones are.

it's frustrating to me because both series make it a point that multiple languages exist within the Colonies and are markers of a rich cultural mosaic; there's the scene with the Gemenese people starving and being denied supplies that go to the military first, and the fact that they speak Gemenese and have to be translated is a specifically called-out plot element. But that just makes it all the more glaring that the language issue just sits there unresolved as they travel farther and farther from home, including to the nazi not-Earth planet and also regular Earth, and keep finding less and less reason to ever pretend anyone in the universe speaks anything other than English. It casts a slight pall of farce over the whole thing which is only exacerbated when they start doing the much goofier and lighter-tone 1980 stuff.

I can't help but wonder if it came down to some kind of "Mormon Jesus spoke English lmao" thing

They speak English so the viewers can understand them, graham

Arc Hammer
Mar 4, 2013

Got any deathsticks?
Speaking English is one thing, all the writing being in English is another conceit of the show so we can read it too. Unless you want to do a George Lucas and replace all the English characters with an alien alphabet.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


sean10mm posted:

I haven't watched this in forever, which seasons are actually good and is there a good cut off in the narrative before the final, dogshit ending?

The mutiny arc is my stopping point. Felix Gaeta's long string of defeats comes to an end and with it, the series.

I could also see the episode where they space a bunch of collaborators as a justifiable point though.

Arc Hammer
Mar 4, 2013

Got any deathsticks?

Defiance Industries posted:

The mutiny arc is my stopping point. Felix Gaeta's long string of defeats comes to an end and with it, the series.

I could also see the episode where they space a bunch of collaborators as a justifiable point though.

But the collaborators episode wasnt a Gaeta defeat. He saved his own rear end that episode and ended a homicidal crusade by broken people who lost perspective.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


Gaeta goes into that airlock ready to die, it's Tyrol who realizes how off-base they are. Tyrol basically has to browbeat the truth about leaking intelligence out of him. And even after that people continue treating him like crap.

Arc Hammer
Mar 4, 2013

Got any deathsticks?
People being Tigh and Starbuck, the two largest assholes in the entire fleet, impressive when you consider that's including the two rapists and Tom Zarek who ended up joining Gaeta's coup.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


When the XO does something it's usually not an isolated incident. If nothing else, people below him will internalize that behavior. Having the XO out for you specifically is a recipe for a bad time.

Tighclops
Jan 23, 2008

Unable to deal with it


Grimey Drawer
Tom Zarek was right to massacre the quorum of assholes

Tom Zarek was cool and good but you never noticed because he doesn't get a neat theme song like the main characters

Arc Hammer
Mar 4, 2013

Got any deathsticks?

Tighclops posted:

Tom Zarek was right to massacre the quorum of assholes

Tom Zarek was cool and good but you never noticed because he doesn't get a neat theme song like the main characters

He did have a "danger" motif in Season 1 during Bastille Day and Colonial Day.

He was also a terrorist bomber and the representative of the planet of Anti-Vaxxers its no wonder he was an rear end in a top hat.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


Zarek's introduction with everyone arguing over whether he was a violent terrorist or a political prisoner was a smart way to bring him in. Really primes the audience for the type of person he turns out to be (namely, both of those things)

Arc Hammer
Mar 4, 2013

Got any deathsticks?
Well I finished Dirty Hands, the last good episode of Season 3. The workers union actually accomplished something and Seelix got her wings. Now, rather than watch her develop as a pilot I instead get Starbuck's arbitrary death episode and three episodes of a dumb trial interspersed with Jimmy Hendrix.

Tighclops
Jan 23, 2008

Unable to deal with it


Grimey Drawer
That episode made me hate bill Adama and his dumbass girlfriend

Arc Hammer
Mar 4, 2013

Got any deathsticks?

Tighclops posted:

That episode made me hate bill Adama and his dumbass girlfriend

It was a breath of fresh air after episode upon episode of personal dramas that accomplished nothing. Seeing a tangible threat to the existence of the fleet and putting Tyrol in the leading role was a nice change of pace. The framing of the whole episode being that Roslin was pissed off someone crashed into her favourite windo seat was funny even if she was an absolute prick the whole runtime.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013





Tighclops posted:

That episode made me hate bill Adama and his dumbass girlfriend

I remember once describing Dirty Hands as "Chief Tyrol starts a union... this is presented as a Bad Thing for 90% of the episode."

Arc Hammer
Mar 4, 2013

Got any deathsticks?
It's only considered a bad thing in the episode if you don't view Adama and Roslin as the episode's antagonists.

I do like the scene where Adama threatens to execute Cally. It may seem wildly out of proportion but it is a good test for Adama to determine why Tyrol is striking and if his intentions are just. He was never going to kill Cally but he was gauging how far Tyrol would go if he was in it for the people he cared about or for a power play.

Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Jun 8, 2021

Tighclops
Jan 23, 2008

Unable to deal with it


Grimey Drawer
Lol bullshit he was going to space her if he couldnt get fuel for his fighter planes, that was literally the justification he gave

He let tyrol get away with something else I can't quite remember back in season 1 for the same reason, he needed his deck Chief to keep his planes flying

I like BSG but it's lib-brained as gently caress

banned from Starbucks
Jul 18, 2004




Do they ever reference that episode or any of the union stuff ever again? Or is it just "yeah everyones working again and are happy now check out this sick military poo poo"

Arc Hammer
Mar 4, 2013

Got any deathsticks?

Tighclops posted:

Lol bullshit he was going to space her if he couldnt get fuel for his fighter planes, that was literally the justification he gave

He let tyrol get away with something else I can't quite remember back in season 1 for the same reason, he needed his deck Chief to keep his planes flying

I like BSG but it's lib-brained as gently caress

He let Tyrol get away with fraternizing with Boomer when Sosinus confessed under duress to cover Tyrol's rear end during the investigation into sabotage.

banned from Starbucks posted:

Do they ever reference that episode or any of the union stuff ever again? Or is it just "yeah everyones working again and are happy now check out this sick military poo poo"

Lol no. The next episode is Starbuck's arbitrary death, then it's three episodes of legal drama and then everything gets dumped for the Final Five reveal and Baltar's sex harem.

The rest of the show basically drops any concerns about supplies or stress or any of the compelling issues about a fleet of refugees stretched to its limits and dives headlong into character drama and shocking reveals for the rest of the runtime. It peaks with the mutiny arc and then it's all downhill.

Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Jun 8, 2021

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009

📈📊🍪😋



Lol the hits keep coming

"The Hand of God", Baltar pointing randomly at a spot on the blurry intel photos of the tylium base and saying "that's where you need to bomb" is one hell of a 2003 time capsule.

Sure do like that celebratory martial/Irish music at the end though.

Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

this is me posting irl

Arcsquad12 posted:

The rest of the show basically drops any concerns about supplies or stress or any of the compelling issues about a fleet of refugees stretched to its limits and dives headlong into character drama and shocking reveals for the rest of the runtime. It peaks with the mutiny arc and then it's all downhill.

I think the article's probably been lost to the sands of time, but I remember reading back in the late 2000s on some website an interview with one (some?) of the show writers, and they said that at some point when they were struggling to make sense of the knots they had tied over the years, Ron Moore had a minor tantrum in the writers' room and basically said "gently caress it, we can just write whatever anyway, it's all about the characters!"

I think that happened during the fourth season production run but I'm not certain. It's been a long time.

Arc Hammer
Mar 4, 2013

Got any deathsticks?
Probably around the same time as the writers strike that hosed up every production between 2008 and early 09 so that definitely tracks.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013





Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

I think the article's probably been lost to the sands of time, but I remember reading back in the late 2000s on some website an interview with one (some?) of the show writers, and they said that at some point when they were struggling to make sense of the knots they had tied over the years, Ron Moore had a minor tantrum in the writers' room and basically said "gently caress it, we can just write whatever anyway, it's all about the characters!"

I think that happened during the fourth season production run but I'm not certain. It's been a long time.

Again, I'm not entirely sure what to make of BSG straight up turning into Ron Moore's own ironic hell after basically going "gently caress you, Rick Berman. Voyager sucks the way you did it, so I'm going to make my own Star Trek: Voyager and do it right this time!" And then he plowed the thing right into the ground anyway right alongside Voyager's flaming wreckage.

MikeJF
Dec 20, 2003




It wouldn't have even been too hard to pull off the 'abandoning the fleet and tech' ending if they'd leaned a bit harder into galactica falling apart and made it so that they basically had no choice. Drive a bit deeper on all of the ships falling apart, they can barely support life at this point, they've struggled along but they don't have a real manufacturing supply chain, they're basically out of medicine and they can't make more - just make it so that yeah, they limped along for four years but it's over, and they genuinely don't have enough left to build a technological civilisation, and going agrarian is their only choice.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013





MikeJF posted:

It wouldn't have even been too hard to pull off the 'abandoning the fleet and tech' ending if they'd leaned a bit harder into galactica falling apart and made it so that they basically had no choice. Drive a bit deeper on all of the ships falling apart, they can barely support life at this point, they've struggled along but they don't have a real manufacturing supply chain, they're basically out of medicine and they can't make more - just make it so that yeah, they limped along for four years but it's over, and they genuinely don't have enough left to build a technological civilisation, and going agrarian is their only choice.

The original ending, if I recall correctly, was going to involve Galatica's final jump not just be to Earth, but into Earth's atmosphere and it plummeting to the ground and crashlanding somewhere in South America so that everyone was kind of forced to give up their their tech and stick it out on Earth because the center of their civilization was now a pancaked mess of metal in a crater in the Amazon. The 500,000 year flash forward would have had modern day scientists discovering the Galactica's wreckage on ground penetrating sonar rather than Hera's body as Mitochondrial Eve.

I think it was scrapped because the science advisor flat out told them that the crash would not only kill everyone aboard Galactica, but also result in a nuclear winter that would wipe out all life on Earth given Galactica's size and speed upon impact.

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

Tighclops posted:

Lol bullshit he was going to space her if he couldnt get fuel for his fighter planes, that was literally the justification he gave

He let tyrol get away with something else I can't quite remember back in season 1 for the same reason, he needed his deck Chief to keep his planes flying

I like BSG but it's lib-brained as gently caress

No, what he did was not allow an enlisted military personelle to go on strike when their method of strike was taking upon themselves the right to dictate what is and is not an essential mission on a warship. I'm not an expert on military law or anything but I feel like they're normally not legally allowed to do that. Strikes do have legal limitations, they always have.

Granted, summary execution isn't exactly a method I approve of in handling that issue, but that's another discussion. Especially because the first thing Adama did after Tyrol lied to Calli and said the Admiral caved to their demands was... take Tyrol to the President so he could issue his demands to her directly. Like, he didn't make him get on the phone to the Tillium Ship and get them back to work to, he took him strait to the head of the government. Adama didn't bust the entire strike, just the part of it that was an immediate threat to military operations. In fact, from his demeanor through most of the episode I took him to be pretty shocked at how Roslin was handling the entire affair, and therefore tacitly on the worker's side. But maybe that was me reading too much into it.

Roslin is absolutely an uncaring monster in this episode, which is par for the course for her in the second half of the show sadly. What the heck happened with her writing?

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nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013





Sanguinia posted:

Roslin is absolutely an uncaring monster in this episode, which is par for the course for her in the second half of the show sadly. What the heck happened with her writing?

She fell into the Janeway Trap, that black hole along the course of writing a strong female leader character where light bends and can't escape and you start mistaking making hard choices and living with the consequences with just being an unhinged lunatic who never once hesitates to pull the right trigger on the controller whenever the Renegade prompt pops up on screen.

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