|
emdash posted:truly a cursed tournament format where the teams who earned a better position aren't allowed to get accustomed to officials dont worry guys, vp will show up at lan eventually! they just need a few more tournaments worth of experience im sure at some point nightfall and dm will stop playing like poo poo. this is the fault of the tournament, not the team.
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2021 21:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 14:27 |
|
|
So that's now three seeded teams who won a single game in the entire major before being eliminated? Possibly 4 if no ping also gets 2-0'd?
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2021 21:43
|
|
|
Sampatrick posted:dont worry guys, vp will show up at lan eventually! they just need a few more tournaments worth of experience im sure at some point nightfall and dm will stop playing like poo poo. this is the fault of the tournament, not the team. you really are a worthless poster
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2021 21:45
|
|
|
I think Noping has what it takes to take out a weak looking EG but at the same time they were also a part of that QC clownfest from yesterday so its hard to say
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2021 21:47
|
|
|
With Vici winning this Bo3, did they clinch an autobid slot or are they now in the "99% in, but there's a ridiculously specific scenario where they get knocked out" space? Liquipedia has them as clinching the autobid after winning vs. VP, but they have the same 800 DPC points as Alliance, Aster, beastcoast, and Thunder Predator
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2021 21:52
|
|
|
First tiebreaker is performance at this major, so they're ahead of all of those teams
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2021 21:54
|
|
|
IncendiaC posted:With Vici winning this Bo3, did they clinch an autobid slot or are they now in the "99% in, but there's a ridiculously specific scenario where they get knocked out" space? Clinched it, thats 4 chinese teams invited to TI now and they knocked Nigma down.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2021 21:54
|
|
|
I dont feel comfortable evaluating vp and Aster after only two series
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2021 21:58
|
|
|
emdash posted:you really are a worthless poster okay so just so you understand, nightfall and dm have both been to multiple lans before and did poo poo at those ones too (although they did also have some great finishes at a number of the online events in 2020!). now lets look at the singapore major and see if what we're seeing here with upper bracket seeded teams getting demolished is something that happens all the time or if this is just variance. at singapore, you have, in your top 4 teams, eg, secret, and ig all of whom came from seeded teams. clearly we dont have a bunch of stats regarding whether or not the format is whats causing these teams to underperform - clearly its not some insurmountable problem, given what we have seen in the previous major. additionally, we have aui talking about alliance's scrims being really bad and aster talking about their scrims being really bad as indication that this isnt some isolated problem - clearly these teams were having issues winning games even outside of the context of tournament games. i think acting like this is all a result of the tournament format is just delusional. clearly theres something more going on here - maybe these teams arent taking things seriously because they viewed themselves as qualified for ti already, maybe these teams arent able to find good teams to scrim against for whatever, who actually knows. what we can absolutely say with certainty is that you cannot blame the lack of results on just the tournament format.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2021 22:00
|
|
|
Sampatrick posted:okay so just so you understand, nightfall and dm have both been to multiple lans before and did poo poo at those ones too (although they did also have some great finishes at a number of the online events in 2020!). now lets look at the singapore major and see if what we're seeing here with upper bracket seeded teams getting demolished is something that happens all the time or if this is just variance. at singapore, you have, in your top 4 teams, eg, secret, and ig all of whom came from seeded teams. clearly we dont have a bunch of stats regarding whether or not the format is whats causing these teams to underperform - clearly its not some insurmountable problem, given what we have seen in the previous major. additionally, we have aui talking about alliance's scrims being really bad and aster talking about their scrims being really bad as indication that this isnt some isolated problem - clearly these teams were having issues winning games even outside of the context of tournament games. i think acting like this is all a result of the tournament format is just delusional. clearly theres something more going on here - maybe these teams arent taking things seriously because they viewed themselves as qualified for ti already, maybe these teams arent able to find good teams to scrim against for whatever, who actually knows. what we can absolutely say with certainty is that you cannot blame the lack of results on just the tournament format. https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dota2_gamepedia/images/e/ea/Vo_silencer_silen_ability_silence_02.mp3/revision/latest?cb=20201018190525
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2021 22:03
|
|
|
EG intro just showed rtz as 20. As if
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2021 22:08
|
|
|
Sampatrick posted:okay so just so you understand, nightfall and dm have both been to multiple lans before and did poo poo at those ones too (although they did also have some great finishes at a number of the online events in 2020!). now lets look at the singapore major and see if what we're seeing here with upper bracket seeded teams getting demolished is something that happens all the time or if this is just variance. at singapore, you have, in your top 4 teams, eg, secret, and ig all of whom came from seeded teams. clearly we dont have a bunch of stats regarding whether or not the format is whats causing these teams to underperform - clearly its not some insurmountable problem, given what we have seen in the previous major. additionally, we have aui talking about alliance's scrims being really bad and aster talking about their scrims being really bad as indication that this isnt some isolated problem - clearly these teams were having issues winning games even outside of the context of tournament games. i think acting like this is all a result of the tournament format is just delusional. clearly theres something more going on here - maybe these teams arent taking things seriously because they viewed themselves as qualified for ti already, maybe these teams arent able to find good teams to scrim against for whatever, who actually knows. what we can absolutely say with certainty is that you cannot blame the lack of results on just the tournament format. source your quotes IncendiaC posted:With Vici winning this Bo3, did they clinch an autobid slot or are they now in the "99% in, but there's a ridiculously specific scenario where they get knocked out" space? it's like nobody reads my dpc update posts 
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2021 22:10
|
|
|
idk, like the panel was saying both this major and the last one, vp probably needs a coach to help out with drafting at the very least. theyre all incredibly talented players but they definitely have been drafting preeeetty bad and honestly playing any part of the game 6v5 in 2021 just seems like youre asking to lose.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2021 22:13
|
|
|
All I'm saying is the format looks dumb now, from a team-agnostic perspective. They could've just set any of the existing formats that avoid the appearance of sending the teams that earned "better" spots into the meatgrinder against teams that have been playing officials for a week straight. I can't remember if there was an explanation for why they picked this format (whether it was to make tournaments shorter for production expenses or whatever) but it doesn't seem likely that it's putting all the teams on an even field, or even giving a genuine advantage to the teams that are supposed to get one.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2021 22:14
|
|
|
When in doubt: https://liquipedia.net/dota2/Dota_Pro_Circuit/2021/Rankings Folks have been keeping it up to date after every match
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2021 22:16
|
|
|
going to be another very late night in Kyiv
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2021 22:18
|
|
|
emdash posted:I can't remember if there was an explanation for why they picked this format (whether it was to make tournaments shorter for production expenses or whatever) but it doesn't seem likely that it's putting all the teams on an even field, or even giving a genuine advantage to the teams that are supposed to get one. I've heard that 2021 DPC design was to serve two functions; frontload qualifiers to reduce cost/schedule issues and to force teams to take qualifiers seriously. This way, all of the effort is spread out over the course of months instead of days without overloading players/viewers while still holding teams responsible for staying up to date.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2021 22:22
|
|
|
I think Aui said Secret was the best team at ti5 but lost to vp?
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2021 22:22
|
|
|
IcePhoenix posted:it's like nobody reads my dpc update posts I do! It's just that I'm a casual dumbo who can't retain information  Regarding the format, yeah there really should be a format for the upper brackets to play more games earlier in the major because 3 out of 4 teams getting knocked out without winning a single Bo3 is not a good look
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2021 22:22
|
|
|
IcePhoenix posted:source your quotes https://liquipedia.net/dota2/DreamLeague/Season_13 this is dm's first lan afaik; both him and nightfall got last https://liquipedia.net/dota2/ONE_Esports/World_Pro_Invitational/2019/Singapore https://liquipedia.net/dota2/ESL_One/Hamburg/2019 are some more tournaments that nightfall and save competed together at where they had mediocre finishes, similar to the singapore major like idk i think gpk especially is a world class midlaner but virtus pro in their current iteration has some issues with not really having the manpower to do all the draft prep and also practice and so on and so forth. save is 19, has only really been in the scene for two years now, and is trying to a pretty insane amount of stuff by himself. if vp had a coach to help them out with drafting and maybe a few other things im pretty confident they would be a top 6 team in the world but outskilling all your opponents, which totally works in regional play, just doesnt really work in the same way at the international level imo.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2021 22:24
|
|
|
Hoodwink is 6-1 this event. helps that no one but america plays it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2021 22:26
|
|
|
I'd like to see rtz playing Luna. I know he can play it and it seems better this event than TB.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2021 22:29
|
|
|
emdash posted:All I'm saying is the format looks dumb now, from a team-agnostic perspective. They could've just set any of the existing formats that avoid the appearance of sending the teams that earned "better" spots into the meatgrinder against teams that have been playing officials for a week straight. the thing is that it absolutely does give an advantage to the teams airlifted if they are as good internationally as they were regionally. they dont have to give away any particular strategies they have or anything about how theyre warding in game or anything along those lines. the problem is that a lot of the regionally good teams are that good because they are just individually better than all the players in the region but once they face international competition who are equally skilled they get messed up because their drafting might not be as good or whatever other reason. its also definitely the case that sometimes it takes teams time to figure out the meta - this is traditionally more of a thing at ti because major group stages are usually much smaller than the 8 team ones we've had this year but its still a thing. still, im not comfortable blaming the format for teams having bad performances. that seems like it just kinda invalidates the skill of the players who are taking down these teams and generally seems kinda unfair to me. anyway, sven sucks and i expect the sven team to lose.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2021 22:35
|
|
|
good start for noping
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2021 22:35
|
|
|
if sven was a void, i would say noping can win this. as it is uhhh i do not believe in the dire.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2021 22:39
|
|
|
i observe three lost lanes bois not lookin so good for the sa dota heroes
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2021 22:42
|
|
|
Reality Protester posted:Hoodwink is 6-1 this event. helps that no one but america plays it. i am american and like playing hoodwink so i can take credit for this actually
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2021 22:42
|
|
|
This Invoker is kinda getting poo poo on.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2021 22:51
|
|
|
Mr. DarkMagoo
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2021 22:52
|
|
|
I found the true og
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2021 22:52
|
|
|
Reality Protester posted:I think Aui said Secret was the best team at ti5 but lost to vp? Yeah Secret was the best team in the world in that time, they won like 4-5 tournaments before TI. But they took a long break from playing and well the egos were also huge on the team as well. So they lost to ehome and VP
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2021 22:55
|
|
|
Today was strong evidence that teams need to earn their way to upper bracket at the major, not before.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2021 23:03
|
|
|
Luna would have stolen all the Sven's stacks. just sayin.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2021 23:04
|
|
|
Yeah but what about all of the Sunders that rtz is probably going to cast eventually?
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2021 23:06
|
|
|
is eg gonna do it? does eg look good enough? might arteezy win a valve event???? 
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2021 23:08
|
|
|
I don't think this clockwork has missed a single hookshot thing game
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2021 23:08
|
|
|
Lion jumped, sven only got one hit off, game set match
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2021 23:10
|
|
|
All the farm in the world and Sven was defeated by a broke rear end Clock
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2021 23:10
|
|
|
The REAL Goobusters posted:Yeah Secret was the best team in the world in that time, they won like 4-5 tournaments before TI. But they took a long break from playing and well the egos were also huge on the team as well. So they lost to ehome and VP I had to look up which Secret roster that was (Rtz s4 zai puppey kuroky). I don't remember that ti very well, or even what the lans were like that year. I should probably listen to that Aui interview some day
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2021 23:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 14:27 |
|
|
Wow this stage design is crazy
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2021 23:14
|
|
