Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Foehammer007
Dec 7, 2011

by Pragmatica
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtBFnCmsf1U

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Blue Raider
Sep 2, 2006

Crosby B. Alfred posted:

Do we really need another Carl Gustav?

Fart Car '97
Jul 23, 2003

Crosby B. Alfred posted:

Do we really need another Carl Gustav?

Some real dumb hot takes in this thread but this one takes the cake

Alkydere
Jun 7, 2010
Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.



Crosby B. Alfred posted:

I'm crossing all my fingers and toes in the hopes that :dice: releases a well balanced game!

I'm just gonna hope for "reasonably fun and stable, and maps don't suck."

Fart Car '97 posted:

Some real dumb hot takes in this thread but this one takes the cake

Carl G? Yus!

Carl G when literally everyone can carry 5 of the? That might be a bit excessive...

jisforjosh
Jun 6, 2006

"It's J is for...you know what? Fuck it, jizz it is"

Fart Car '97 posted:

Some real dumb hot takes in this thread but this one takes the cake

Idk 64 person open voice comms is close

Chronojam
Feb 20, 2006

This is me on vacation in Amsterdam :)
Never be afraid of being yourself!


Alkydere posted:

Carl G when literally everyone can carry 5 of the? That might be a bit excessive...

It's like when everybody unlocked trunk rockets in Hardline and it ruined game modes

Bob Wins
Oct 25, 2010

Crosby B. Alfred posted:

Has any Battlefield title let alone honestly any FPS game balanced rocket launchers well? How did 2142 balance snipers and rocket launchers? I'm too old to remember :smith:

Sniper rifles were wonky, and people didn't really get killed by anti tank weapons much.....


.... Because the assault class (which was also the medic) had access to underslung airburst rocket launchers, 2 rockets killed somebody and you had 4 in the mag. Game owned soooo much.

codo27
Apr 21, 2008

I tried, I dunno, sometime last year to fire up BF4 and give it a try. I dunno if I was playing warzone at the time but I just bounced right off of it, and I'm a vet of ~800 hours. But I think whatever I was engrossed in at the time put me off. I downloaded again today and boy did it feel good. Managed an MVP round in like my third match, the sniper felt like cheating after playing Cyberpunk and using the big gently caress off rifle I was using in that which had about 15 seconds in between shots.

However, after killing most of my afternoon playing it, I eventually ran into a couple of real grindy, smothering rounds where the enemy team just effectively used their armor while we had one round for example where a guy in the lav had like 50-1 ratio but was doing absolutely nothing to advance our cause. Thats how my sessions would usually end when I was hardcore into the game, so I'm looking forward to hopefully hooking up with a few of you (on PC) to get some good squads going in the coming weeks or perhaps months.

Rev. Bleech_
Oct 19, 2004

~OKAY, WE'LL DRINK TO OUR LEGS!~

Raskolnikov2089 posted:

The real question is, will I be able to grapple a helicopter and plant C4 on it before parachuting away?

Battlefield 6: Just Cause 5

Assepoester
Jul 18, 2004
Probation
Can't post for 11 years!
Melman v2

afkmacro posted:

Isn't that what the deluxe platinum edition comes with? the guy with the black apron?
Yeah imagine that but way worse



Symetrique posted:

Its weirder when you look at the riot shield gadget too. There's no way that thing will be useable if everyone is strapped with rockets.
Yeah that's what happened in BF4 so it was pretty much just for fun



Hell yeah making those sorts of climbs on Warlord to get up where no one expected you was the best part of BF2:SF




Crosby B. Alfred posted:

Has any Battlefield title let alone honestly any FPS game balanced rocket launchers well? How did 2142 balance snipers and rocket launchers? I'm too old to remember :smith:
2142 gave the engineer/anti-tank the pilum anti armor sniper rifle which was better than the launcher and better than any recon snipers.

Snipers weren't really as bad in 2 and 2142 though because the draw distance was so low.

And tanks weren't really a big concern because the transports spawning on the titans near instantly meant you had an infinite supply of fast flying bombs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SiwxXuGRrk

Assepoester fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Jun 14, 2021

Hot Diggity!
Apr 3, 2010

SKELITON_BRINGING_U_ON.GIF

Chronojam posted:

It's like when everybody unlocked trunk rockets in Hardline and it ruined game modes

People say this but it didn't because you could either be not bad at driving or it also meant that a couple of points were being flipped which is fun

SpartanIvy
May 18, 2007
Hair Elf

Crosby B. Alfred posted:

Has any Battlefield title let alone honestly any FPS game balanced rocket launchers well? How did 2142 balance snipers and rocket launchers? I'm too old to remember :smith:

2142 was great because each class had 2 different primaries to choose from and a handful of gadgets per class. So a sniper had a traditional sniper rifle that wasn't a one hit kill, but you could also spec with a cloaking device that worked super well at distance. So snipers weren't super overpowered but could effectively hang back and move around and take shots at people without instantly being targeted by everyone on the map.

If you wanted to be more of an up-close sniper you could be an engineer with a Pilum anti tank rifle which was an instant kill but the projectile was super slow and visible so you're easy to hunt down after firing.

As such the Pilum was also pretty terrible at anti aircraft fire. You could instead use the rocket launcher with engineer class which had home rockets and we're great AA, but not as damaging, and also worthless with infantry. Although the engineer also got an SMG with it's load out which was pretty good.

Kazinsal
Dec 13, 2011



Now we’re getting the opposite end of the weapon balance spectrum with every gun being available on every class. And with how many different guns BF4 had, and expectations from Gamers (tm) that each game will be bigger in scope than the last, balance is going to be a nightmare and it’s going to lead to some wonderful, excellent, horrible goon adventures :allears:

Gonz
Dec 22, 2009

"Jesus, did I say that? Or just think it? Was I talking? Did they hear me?"
I just rolled with the 1897 trench shotgun (with bayonet) in BF1 and the Nagant revolver as my secondary. Anti tank grenade bundles and gas grenades as my throwables. Assault all day err’y day.

All glory to the AT rocket gun, also.

jisforjosh
Jun 6, 2006

"It's J is for...you know what? Fuck it, jizz it is"

Gonz posted:

I just rolled with the 1897 trench shotgun (with bayonet) in BF1 and the Nagant revolver as my secondary. Anti tank grenade bundles and gas grenades as my throwables. Assault all day err’y day.

All glory to the AT rocket gun, also.

Using the AT rocket gun against infantry was my favorite way to farm chat rage second only to Pre-nerf Trench Darts

Assepoester
Jul 18, 2004
Probation
Can't post for 11 years!
Melman v2

SpartanIvy posted:

2142 was great because each class had 2 different primaries to choose from and a handful of gadgets per class. So a sniper had a traditional sniper rifle that wasn't a one hit kill, but you could also spec with a cloaking device that worked super well at distance. So snipers weren't super overpowered but could effectively hang back and move around and take shots at people without instantly being targeted by everyone on the map.
Important to note that while 2142 was the beginning of the whole 4 class system and "each class serving 2 roles" thing that has carried forward to this day, it was because they took BF2's 7 classes and condensed them into 4, so the Assault/Medic, Engineer/Anti-Tank, Sniper/SpecOps, and well the Ammoman was still just the Ammoman.

They've shuffled these around a bit, most notably with BC2's AmmoAssaults and MachinegunMedics, but we're still following that formula.








Assepoester fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Jun 14, 2021

toggle
Nov 7, 2005

So every class/specialist has a rocket launcher now? Will this make tanks stronger? Just redo the BC2 classes :(

Bob Wins
Oct 25, 2010
Maybe I'm an old man, but I kinda liked 2142's approach the most, where every class had like 3-5 guns to choose from max. You got a lot more from art direction that way, each army felt a lot different and IMO it would be a lot easier to balance. 35 guns each with a bunch of attachments is gonna be a nightmare to balance.


Honestly not sure how I feel about every gun on every class and being able to swap attachments on the fly. I kinda liked those moments where you were stuck darting from place to place in a wide open area with a close range indoors gun or forced to use a sniper indoors, generally forced out of your element.

Not gonna lie the specialisms thing and the lore behind it bugs me way more than it should too lol. The whole #NoPats thing sounds sooooo dumb.

Orv
May 4, 2011
I mean realistically most of the modern games have had a couple or a few gun archetypes per weapon category and then just small tweaks around each archetype. Fast firing, big mag, low damage ARs. Slow firing, small mag, high damage ARs, that kinda thing, then various guns tweak with like +/-20-50 ROF and a few bullets here and there.

That said, they could go back to 2142 levels of guns and you'd still have something that was still the right choice every time if you insist on using it, eg. the Voss.

Assepoester
Jul 18, 2004
Probation
Can't post for 11 years!
Melman v2

Raskolnikov2089 posted:

The real question is, will I be able to grapple a helicopter and plant C4 on it before parachuting away?
attempting to grapple a moving vehicle will crash the server, sorry

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011

Crosby B. Alfred posted:

Has any Battlefield title let alone honestly any FPS game balanced rocket launchers well? How did 2142 balance snipers and rocket launchers? I'm too old to remember :smith:

Sniper rifles had a very low rate of fire and the maps generally didn't have enough clear sightlines to really give them a range advantage. They also only could one-shot kill on a headshot. Rocket launchers were either lock-on explosive rockets or slow-firing dumbfire anti-material rifle rounds that moved pretty slowly but would instantly kill if they hit infantry, but had no explosion and some wicked aim deviation if fired on the move. Rocket launchers also required you to play engineer, which had serviceable SMGs but were pretty disadvantaged compared to assaults or at anything other than very close range (unless the support had a shotgun)

The biggest balancing factor though was simply that the assault class was designed as a generalist class that heavily encouraged most people in a squad to play it. It came with good assault rifles, medpacks, defibs for full-health revives (that you could do on the run) and 4-round undersling explosive airburst rockets that killed in two hits. They also didn't do damage on direct hits, only dialed in explosions and moved relatively slowly, so you could easily survive being rocketed if you moved quickly (and weren't being shot at by several assaults at once). So a sniper rifle could kill you, sure, but chances were fantastic that someone nearby had a defib and would get you back up. Also, the recon that killed you was likely getting several rockets heading their way, making the revive relatively risk free. Infantry combat really consisted of lots of assaults with a scattering of supports for ammo support, using either shotguns or LMGs. Engineers showed up for anti-armor and armor support roles, and recons typically carried an assault rifle, cloak, and c4 instead of sniper rifles. And using sniper rifles mostly meant you could drop someone but not confirm infantry kills, ehich required assaults covering the body to stop the revive. Also a lot of the squad-spotting stuff meant a sniper was easily marked even behind cover, again meaning a lot of airburst rockets were heading their way.

2142 was loving awesome.

E: the Krylov was better than the Voss.

Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Jun 14, 2021

Kazinsal
Dec 13, 2011



Yeah I think you could get away with condensing down to maybe six or seven guns per category, breaking them down into ARs/carbines/PDWs/LMGs/DMRs/snipers/shotguns. All of the operators are supposed to be non-aligned shady PMC types, and shady PMCs with active war zone contracts have massive budgets to spend on fancy kit, and there are only a handful of different options in each category for weapons that it makes sense to outfit your blinged out blackwater-types with.

Orv
May 4, 2011

Ravenfood posted:

E: the Krylov was better than the Voss.

The Krylov had two max damage points on the Voss but the Voss had 10 more rounds and basically no recoil. Plus the Voss had that cool kitbashed chunky look going on which matters goddamnit.

Fleetwood
Mar 26, 2010


biggest hochul head in china
can't wait to glide in a squirrel suit while dropping smoke and C4 everywhere

also going to take advantage of this new battlefield to buy whatever junk food promos are available

Kazinsal
Dec 13, 2011



sigh

Preordered the gold edition. At least if it sucks, EA has a no-questions-asked refund policy for preorders within the first 7 days of the game's launch.

Gucci Loafers
May 20, 2006

Ask yourself, do you really want to talk to pair of really nice gaudy shoes?


Fart Car '97 posted:

Some real dumb hot takes in this thread but this one takes the cake

Unless I'm completely off base here the Carl Gustav while fun was OP as gently caress.

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011

Orv posted:

The Krylov had two max damage points on the Voss but the Voss had 10 more rounds and basically no recoil. Plus the Voss had that cool kitbashed chunky look going on which matters goddamnit.

The Krylov was noticeably more accurate at range though, and looked and sounded like a cool sci-fi gun which also matters. It also had basically no recoil.

(In all honesty there were probably very closely balanced I just preferred the feel of the Krylov. Also the Krylov was probably better in a 1v1 situation while the Voss was better against more people, and back then I played with other good squadmates so I was rarely locally outnumbered, making the Voss's strengths less useful for me.)


E: vvv yeah it's a shame it sucked because it looked and sounded awesome.

Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 01:53 on Jun 14, 2021

Orv
May 4, 2011

Ravenfood posted:

The Krylov was noticeably more accurate at range though, and looked and sounded like a cool sci-fi gun which also matters. It also had basically no recoil.

(In all honesty there were probably very closely balanced I just preferred the feel of the Krylov)

Totally fair! I actually really liked the Baur even though it was drastically the worst because it sounded rad.

Gonz
Dec 22, 2009

"Jesus, did I say that? Or just think it? Was I talking? Did they hear me?"

jisforjosh posted:

Using the AT rocket gun against infantry was my favorite way to farm chat rage second only to Pre-nerf Trench Darts

Hell, same.

Collapsings floors, walls and ceilings on fools in Amiens, Sinai and Empire’s Edge was always supremely satisfying.

yellowcar
Feb 14, 2010

things i hope they keep from BFV:

ability to revive squadmates to 50% health regardless of class
the weapon perk tree (ie specializations)
throwing ammo/health to teammates to instantly give them an extra mag or small health boost
the squad reinforcements

things i hope that are gone for good

the attrition system (ie start with a low ammo count) - i hate it, it doesn't add anything to the gameplay
the vehicle upgrade system - too grindy and puts you at an obvious disadvantage if you haven't been playing 20 hours in one specific vehicle
extra animations getting in/out of vehicles - i hate it, makes bailing out of a almost dead vehicle a chore

Orv
May 4, 2011

yellowcar posted:

things i hope they keep from BFV:

ability to revive squadmates to 50% health regardless of class
throwing ammo/health to teammates to instantly give them an extra mag or small health boost


things i hope that are gone for good

the attrition system (ie start with a low ammo count) - i hate it, it doesn't add anything to the gameplay

These things at least are confirmed in or gone, respectively.

Gonz
Dec 22, 2009

"Jesus, did I say that? Or just think it? Was I talking? Did they hear me?"
To hell with bailing animations. It would interfere with my ability to perpetrate Jeep Stuff.

Blue Raider
Sep 2, 2006

I’m really glad the attrition system is gone. What a wretched idea. I do hope they have the thing where you can take ammo and meds from supplying players without them actively giving them to you. Yet another good Hardline innovation.

Gonz posted:

To hell with bailing animations. It would interfere with my ability to perpetrate Jeep Stuff.

loving a.

yellowcar
Feb 14, 2010

Gonz posted:

To hell with bailing animations. It would interfere with my ability to perpetrate Jeep Stuff.

same, for me it's mostly this

BlackIronHeart
Aug 2, 2004

The Oath Breaker's about to hit warphead nine Kaptain!
If every class has access to a rocket launcher than just call me Dr. SMAW M.D.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

Fleetwood posted:

can't wait to glide in a squirrel suit while dropping smoke and C4 everywhere

also going to take advantage of this new battlefield to buy whatever junk food promos are available

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks of that thing of a squirrel suit!

It's totally a squirrel suit.

henpod
Mar 7, 2008

Sir, we have located the Bioweapon.
College Slice
Imagine that we get a commander mode again. That was always so cool - you'd be playing a completely different game than everyone else - kinda like a war simulator, but its all happening in real-time below you, with human players. You'd give them objectives to go to, send down supplies, airstrikes and so on. The flow of the battles was always better with someone up in the sky telling squads where to hit or defend.

Assepoester
Jul 18, 2004
Probation
Can't post for 11 years!
Melman v2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2IMKCGjg6Q




henpod posted:

Imagine that we get a commander mode again. That was always so cool - you'd be playing a completely different game than everyone else - kinda like a war simulator, but its all happening in real-time below you, with human players. You'd give them objectives to go to, send down supplies, airstrikes and so on. The flow of the battles was always better with someone up in the sky telling squads where to hit or defend.
I wouldn't expect commanders to be back, even if it would be nice. I think that overall BF4/H commanding is a bit too disconnected from the battle, partially because it seems they wanted people to be able to play it on their iPad like a mobile game, so it had it's own slot and it wasn't something anybody on the team could just be promoted to if they wanted it. Something like BC2's drone station is a good compromise, it makes the commander basically a "vehicle" that any player can get into. Remember the bomber trailers in BF4?

Al-Saqr
Nov 11, 2007

The worst thing you can ever do is give a gamer responsibility and power over other gamers.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

Al-Saqr posted:

The worst thing you can ever do is give a gamer responsibility and power over other gamers.

The Commander in BF4 didn't have that anyway. You sometimes plonked down supply crates (if so preferred, on snipers, them being enemy ones being optional) or Cruise Missile'd a roof.

The orders and such were completely pretty much entirely ignorable.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply