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Count Uvula posted:I think the big issue is that your ranged characters are generally completely safe so if they add enemies that are risky to use ranged weapons on that'd cover a lot of the difference between melee and ranged enemies. Like some form of enemy that jumps over your walls to blitz characters inside the city, or one that automatically attacks in some way if killed or stunned from more than 2 spaces ways. It's hard to fix, because the former idea both fucks with the way the panic system works and also doesn't really incentivize melee(now your melee guy has to run deep into the city to grab a wall jumper or whatever, then run back to the frontlines?). The latter might work but would also be tremendously obnoxious.
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Jun 14, 2021 18:55
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Thank you for service.  Anyways I got finally crowned on my monk, I'm legitimately extremely tempted to use the vorpal blade and a shield of reflection? In the endgame but ehhhhh.
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Jun 14, 2021 18:56
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Kanos posted:It's hard to fix, because the former idea both fucks with the way the panic system works and also doesn't really incentivize melee(now your melee guy has to run deep into the city to grab a wall jumper or whatever, then run back to the frontlines?). The latter might work but would also be tremendously obnoxious. Fair, I forgot about the panic aspect when spitballing that  I was thinking more something that would be easy for a ranged guy to kill on his own but you'd have to worry about about them taking small amounts of damage and spend AP on killing a single target instead of spending it all on AOE attacks. That doesn't really work either unless you give them a decent amount of block or something to keep ballistas from chewing them up, though... Anyway there's already obnoxious enemies that are fine in the game but work against melee characters (The suicide bombers and spearzombs) so if they're in line with those threats and not the goddamn stun zombie  I imagine a ranged death counter zombie would be fine.
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Jun 14, 2021 19:19
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There's always Pathos(lively!) and Wazhack(settled!) for the Nethack inclined. If you want distilled esoteric Power, however, venture to diggr and Incavead..
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Jun 14, 2021 21:50
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Slash'em Extended Wiki posted:Numbers for the stat lovers: The current version of Slash'EM Extended has 34611 monster species, 6643 objects and object appearances, 2225 artifacts and 535 trap types. There is a total of 165 playable roles and 261 playable races. I have no desire whatsoever to play that but now I just have to go wiki diving for awhile and see what I've avoided.
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Jun 14, 2021 23:07
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Mithross posted:I have no desire whatsoever to play that but now I just have to go wiki diving for awhile and see what I've avoided. I'll fetch the barf bucket.
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Jun 14, 2021 23:09
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Count Uvula posted:Fair, I forgot about the panic aspect when spitballing that So as someone who's seemed to have a lot more success than me (I've topped out at like day 9-10), what about the hand crossbow makes it so good? The explosive shot seems very inconsistent while having kinda low damage, and while the regular shot is great for finishing things, it's also just very low damage.
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Jun 14, 2021 23:22
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Re: Griftlands: If anyone tells you that Killing People is "Bad" and "Makes the game harder", please just point them at this:
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Jun 14, 2021 23:28
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The dead can't hate you anymore.
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Jun 14, 2021 23:28
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alansmithee posted:So as someone who's seemed to have a lot more success than me (I've topped out at like day 9-10), what about the hand crossbow makes it so good? The explosive shot seems very inconsistent while having kinda low damage, and while the regular shot is great for finishing things, it's also just very low damage. It scales stupidly out of control with multistrike. Every extra multistrike gets you both an extra shot on the main shot(which, while it's low damage, adds up when you can shoot 6-7 of them for 1 AP, and it also stacks movement debuffs even if you don't kill) and, more importantly, an extra shot on Blaze - suddenly your mediocre-to-low-damage AoE gets to fire 5-6 times for 2 AP and isn't mediocre-to-low-damage anymore. Pick up Specialist or put another hand crossbow in your off slot so you can fire more of them and you can very easily delete an entire wave with one character for like 6 AP. It also has the option of incredibly powerful poison damage and an armor piercing shot, both of which directly counter hugely armored enemies, which are like the one thing in the game that partially counters ranged builds at the moment. All this and it's also one-handed, so you get the option of off-hand stat sticks or a teleport crystal, to boot. Kanos fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Jun 14, 2021 |
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Jun 14, 2021 23:31
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Toshimo posted:The dead can't hate you anymore. I last played before the provoke mechanic was added and I have to say, "turn everyone who hates you into more card upgrades while also revoking their hatred penalties by taunting them into attacking you" is already terrifyingly effective. I'm not even generating a lot of haters, I'm sparing a lot of people, I'm just diplomacy murdering the ones I get. Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Jun 14, 2021 |
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Jun 14, 2021 23:46
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Lawman 0 posted:I'll fetch the barf bucket. Nah, I love reading about hilariously bad ideas that got executed anyway because "gently caress it, why not?". It's like reading the Darwin Awards, as long as you aren't personally involved they can be quite entertaining.
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Jun 14, 2021 23:55
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Mithross posted:Nah, I love reading about hilariously bad ideas that got executed anyway because "gently caress it, why not?". It's like reading the Darwin Awards, as long as you aren't personally involved they can be quite entertaining.
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Jun 15, 2021 00:03
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alansmithee posted:So as someone who's seemed to have a lot more success than me (I've topped out at like day 9-10), what about the hand crossbow makes it so good? The explosive shot seems very inconsistent while having kinda low damage, and while the regular shot is great for finishing things, it's also just very low damage. So, investing in something like +Isolation% gives you a small DPS increase on Isolation attacks because the proportional benefit is pretty low. +16% Isolation is an 8% damage increase on the dagger's 1st skill, for example. The hand crossbow's fire skill has a multihit of 2 so each +Multihit you get adds 50% of its base damage on top. On top of that, it's the only AOE multihit spell, and the fact that it's propagation means the only way it's not doing its job as an AOE spell is if you're attacking an isolated enemy. Propagation spells also have added versatility because they can propagate back on to enemies they've already hit, so if there's two tough enemies next to eachother with no other enemies for the skill to propagate on to, it'll bounce back and forth between them until it's out of bounces or one of the enemies is dead. Effectively, a level 1 archer is gonna do Not Great with it, but at level 3 (I think? maybe level 4) you get the propagation/multihit perk which makes them pretty comfortably usable. If you get another +2 multihit from items and level ups they become an unstoppable killing machine. Additionally each bounce of the propagation chain can give you mana back if it crits and you have the mana on crit perk, so they're entirely self-sustaining if they're getting 2 or more crits per blaze and you're often getting 30 chances to crit per skill use.
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Jun 15, 2021 00:13
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Count Uvula posted:How _much_ like Griftlands are you looking for, do you just want deck-builders or do you want ones with more like narrative depth? Mainly the stuff that I checklisted. Narrative isn't really necessary though it's generally nice. Doesn't necessarily need to be a deckbuilder, but deckbuilding can be fun and most deckbuilding games I've played are turn-based and don't require you to pay constant attention to the game. I just checked Gordian Quest and it looks pretty interesting! Pretty funny how the top review is suggesting people play Griftlands (which I am!) or Monster Train (which I was considering) instead, though most other reviews seem pretty positive. tildes posted:You’re probably already aware of these but just in case: Monster Train mostly fits that mechanically, tho there’s no story. Minus the meta progression, slay the spire. Neither have the whole story thing so maybe not what you’re looking for. Slay the Spire is a thing I was considering because I heard people compare Griftlands to Slay the Spire. In fact, I was thinking of buying it and was just waiting for it to go on sale, but Griftlands ended up catching my eye randomly and I ended up going with that instead. I also considered Monster Train but I couldn't make heads or tails out of the preview images on Steam which made me reconsider buying it. The only rougelites/likes I've played in my life are 1. Griftlands, 2. Hades, 4. Dungeon of the Endless (recommended to me by a friend when I asked for a Deckbuilding Rougelite Tower Defense Game with Upgrades), and 4. that one Nippon Ichi game for the PSP (which I played way back before I even knew what a rougelike was). I enjoyed Hades and Griftlands because even if I died, something carried over to make me stronger on subsequent playthroughs, so there's this sense of progression even if I have to start over from (mostly) the beginning.
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Jun 15, 2021 02:51
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Speaking of deck builders with narrative, I don't think I saw anyone talk about Inscryption yet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rl3NTzzw-2o I'm kind of surprised there's no release date yet because I'm in the closed beta and the game doesn't feel super far off. It's hard to really nail down the genre-- I'd say that the game isn't quite a roguelike deckbuilding game, but it is a game ABOUT a roguelike deckbuilding game. It will certainly appeal to fans of Slay The Spire who also have a taste for "escape the room" style games, and ARGs and meta-puzzling. Definitely something to wishlist if you're in the center of that venn diagram.
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Jun 15, 2021 03:30
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goferchan posted:Speaking of deck builders with narrative, I don't think I saw anyone talk about Inscryption yet. I don't think I like all these deckbuilding games, but it's from the maker of Pony Island which ruled, so I'll give it a whirl.
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Jun 15, 2021 04:00
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Zero VGS posted:I don't think I like all these deckbuilding games, but it's from the maker of Pony Island which ruled, so I'll give it a whirl. Check out The Hex too, it's often dirt cheap and I liked it even better than Pony Island. The framework is more of a point and click adventure but if you know Daniel Mullins you will know that it goes off in all kinds of other directions
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Jun 15, 2021 04:17
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By the way, has the ever seen another 3D Beatemup Roguelike since the Dream Factory trilogy (Tobal No. 1, Tobal 2, Ergheiz)? The closest I've found is Dungeon Fighter Online but that game is 2D and is serious eye-cancer and pay2win stuff. Here's Tobal 2 if you haven't seen it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtU4p4wqd8s&t=192s
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Jun 15, 2021 04:18
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If The Last Spell puts in maps that have less directions of attack that would go a long way to promoting the use of melee. A tanky hammer/shield guy standing way outside the walls would actually be pretty appealing on a one-sided defense map. Could probably justify making some super powerful enemies on a map like that and actually make debuffs useful outside of just setting up your opportunists. Imagine enemies that are strong enough to soak multiple attacks for multiple turns that you actually want to use a melee character to hold them back from your walls/out of your town. Really hoping for some nice big patches for this game.
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Jun 15, 2021 04:30
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ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:Mainly the stuff that I checklisted. Narrative isn't really necessary though it's generally nice. Doesn't necessarily need to be a deckbuilder, but deckbuilding can be fun and most deckbuilding games I've played are turn-based and don't require you to pay constant attention to the game. Oh I’d definitely recommend slay the spire then — it is probably the best deckbuilding roguelike imo and is arguably the inspiration for a ton of the games in the deckbuilding genre. Its metaprogression is lighter tho - you unlock cards and new classes for future runs as you go, but getting all the unlocks won’t take that long. Monster Train is (again IMO) a somewhat worse game, but does have more metaprogression and is still also quite good. It’s simpler than it looks at first I think.
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Jun 15, 2021 05:29
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Yeah Slay The Spire may not blow your mind if you've already played games inspired by it but I'd still argue it has the most elegant and thoughtful design of any roguelike card game out there. It also has a great implementation of a difficulty system where you can continue to layer new complications on to your run as you get more comfortable with its systems. It's definitely light on metaprogression though -- you'll unlock every class pretty quickly and then unlock every card for those classes pretty early on. The meat of the game is completing runs and then tackling them again on "ascension" levels that go higher and higher up to 20, each one adding some different wrinkle that increases the difficulty
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Jun 15, 2021 06:04
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I'll make sure to pick Slay the Spire up the next time it goes on sale, then! Thanks for the suggestions!
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Jun 15, 2021 06:06
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pumpinglemma posted:Be warned, there's a lot of bigotry in there (especially anti-trans stuff IIRC). Although I am not a fan of that (I just read through Top Model and it's quest), I am not outright triggered by it, but thank you. Slash' Em Extended sounds like exactly the sort of train wreck I am kind of glad exists but have no desire to experience for myself. For anyone else thinking about diving in, the player base seems to consider playing any but four or five of the roles as "playtesting" and no wins have been recorded for most of them. Mithross fucked around with this message at 10:59 on Jun 15, 2021 |
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Jun 15, 2021 10:56
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Griftlands chat: pulled off my second Sal win last night. I think my problem was that I was managing her combat deck wrong after getting used to how Smith plays. Smith's combat deck seems to support having a modest number of really good defensive cards, then tons of card draw and crazy opportunistic poo poo alongside 0-cost stuff and a few powerful showstopper attacks. He regenerates constantly and can consistently deal a ton of damage with a decent deck, so it is not unreasonable to simply solve every problem by getting violently drunk at it, then furiously cycling draw cards until you get what you need. This works especially well if you can get a Cavalcade (or whatever the "gain defense equal to your next attack" card is) - holy poo poo that thing is awesome. Sal is the opposite of this! She can do absolutely horrifying things to an enemy if she's given a chance to build up steam, but she'll never get that chance without a rock-solid defense. Bleed kills via damage over time, Combo builds require at least a turn or two to get rolling, and sneaky Improvise triggers require some setting up as well. Sal lives and dies by her ability to control the flow of battle - if you're rushing to deal damage, you're taking more risks than you should be. Get good defensive cards, get card draw, check enemy abilities and focus-fire the ones that will snowball in power (or cripple you) over time, claim every Replenish or 0-cost card draw consumable you win (they're never dead draws since they trigger another draw, so you can hoard them until you need them), and always buy Slurry when Fssh has it in stock. That card is insanely good at that price, single-use or no. Aside from that: if you come into possession of a pet, never sell it. The Shills aren't worth losing a free party member who deals damage without using your cards or actions and splits up enemy attacks. That alone can turn a doomed run into a winning one, because, again, Sal lives and dies by her ability to consistently survive (and inflict) attrition.
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Jun 15, 2021 14:58
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won my first run with sal after looking after toshimo's guide! rundown is here
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Jun 16, 2021 00:43
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I won with Sal on my first playthrough because I'm a weakling who only plays Story Difficulty for the time being. The more I play Griftlands the more I'm enthralled with how many options and playstyles there are for two different forms of combat with three (though I've only played Sal and Rook so far) characters. Add grifts and mutations on top of that and it feels like there are so many possibilities. Like, my first run I just ran with whatever I had but mostly focused on Diplomacy with a side of Composure Bomb (give all friendly arguments 4 Composure, double all Composure, deal damage based on your total combined Composure) for negotiations and Combos for Battle, but I've also tried doing murder-based Hostility, and right now I'm doing a draw + shuffle deck using the Diplomacy card that deals 3 damage each time you draw, a bunch of card draw, and the grift that deals damage whenever you shuffle your deck. Which is fun but the damage really falls off because you don't really have a form of discard so you need to rely on the 0-cost Manipulation card that lets you put a card in your hand back on the top of the deck so you can redraw the core Diplomacy card, and the 1-cost Manipulation card that lets you improvise a card from your discard pile (so you can reuse the aforementioned 0-cost Manipulation card). And I didn't really think too hard about the story and all that in Sal's playthrough because it's a pretty standard revenge plot but playing Rook's story mode has me wondering about the mysteries of the Bog as well as what Rook's whole deal is, so I'm eager to play him again. Griftlands is a very good game.
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Jun 16, 2021 02:39
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GreyjoyBastard posted:I last played before the provoke mechanic was added and I have to say, "turn everyone who hates you into more card upgrades while also revoking their hatred penalties by taunting them into attacking you" is already terrifyingly effective. And don't forget that picking the perks that give items one additional charge and +10 shills per item use means that killing all those extra people can generate tons of money. I'm doing runs right now to see how high I can get the number of dead in a game and I've topped out at 59. I could probably pump it even higher if I try it on the tougher prestige levels that should spawn more npcs in some encounters.
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Jun 16, 2021 05:17
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I feel like having too much items screws your hand a bit, even in battle. My Discard and Draw deck as Rook kept not pulling Discard or Draw cards despite them making up most of my deck cause I kept on picking up items while murederating stuff.
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Jun 16, 2021 06:12
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DrManiac posted:Yeah thanks it totally convinced me to give griftlands another shot. I should probably give Arcanium a chance, too. Or, I'll just go play Hearthstone Solo Adventures, or Griftland, or Slay The Spire, or... I have too many good choices.
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Jun 16, 2021 09:56
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Kchama posted:I should probably give Arcanium a chance, too. Or, I'll just go play Hearthstone Solo Adventures, or Griftland, or Slay The Spire, or... I have too many good choices.
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Jun 16, 2021 10:07
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If you haven't played Spire, you should. I'm pretty much done with it now apart from meme seeds and when a new Downfall villain comes out, but I racked up just shy of 1200 hours in it. You'll get your money's worth.
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Jun 16, 2021 12:04
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A new space roguelite called Lilith Odyssey released their demo today on Steam and so far it's pretty wild. The basic idea is you take your randomly generated space family and have to navigate them to the promised land/planet of Lilith, all the while having to feed their faces and somehow keep the ship running. It's got some crazy features like a GTA style radio, planet exploration and building, and micromanagement of your characters life. My second play through I was a 72 year old Grandpa, transporting my wife and two grandchildren through the stars. There are also some interesting sliders you can micromanage, including masturbation frequency, which for that 72 year old grandpa was 2.8x a day and that was without me even touching the slider.   Eventually poor old grandpa kicked the bucket after starving to death while getting food for his family on a distant planet. This is a crazy game and I'm going to have to mess with it a bit more before I decide to buy it, but so far it's pretty out there, and the demo seems to be pretty much the full game so it's probably worth your time just for the oddness of it. https://store.steampowered.com/app/1450800/Lilith_Odyssey/ Solvency fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Jun 16, 2021 |
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Jun 16, 2021 17:12
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Should've masturbated more, that would've kept the hunger pangs at bay for longer.
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Jun 16, 2021 17:16
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That sounds less like a roguelike and more like Oregon Trail. ...Is...Oregon Trail a roguelike?
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Jun 16, 2021 17:53
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Arzaac posted:That sounds less like a roguelike and more like Oregon Trail. How strict are you about the Berlin Interpretation?
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Jun 16, 2021 17:58
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Arzaac posted:That sounds less like a roguelike and more like Oregon Trail. Yeah, as I'm playing it I'm finding it's more of a survival roguelite then anything else, Sorry this was probably the wrong thread for it.
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Jun 16, 2021 18:14
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Arzaac posted:That sounds less like a roguelike and more like Oregon Trail. The Procgen Trail? "You have died of dysentery. Permanently."
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Jun 16, 2021 18:21
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Solvency posted:Yeah, as I'm playing it I'm finding it's more of a survival roguelite then anything else, Sorry this was probably the wrong thread for it. no harm in it, not like we're runnin' out of posts Arzaac posted:That sounds less like a roguelike and more like Oregon Trail. yes. it has permadeath. it has branches. random events.
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Jun 16, 2021 18:30
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Oregon Trail doesn't have metaprogression so it's not a real roguelike.
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Jun 16, 2021 19:03
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