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Vandar posted:Family Guy is low-hanging fruit but Meg is probably still the most persistent example of a buttmonkey. drat, how could i forget meg? mind the walrus posted:Do you know what's aged really loving badly? Shrek and Shrek-adjacent things. Zoomers go to the mat for Shrek and get shocked when I mention that I think it's mediocre at best, but they're what marketers want to court now so in the past week we got like three separate examples of "Holding out for a Hero" in nerd poo poo and it's just like... come the gently caress on dudes. Please. No more. It's not funny. It wasn't funny the first time they did it. It's only ever been mildly amusing. Just stop it. Please. i'm no fan of shrek and i agree with you overall, but in fairness, i did appreciate the series taking the piss out of the lame typical disney fairy tale tropes. felt that was definitely needed. Cleretic posted:I feel like the reason Spongebob managed that dynamic while something like Catdog didn't was for a couple reasons. also helps that unlike catdog, spongebob is actually, you know, funny and entertaining. and maybe i'm misremembering of having had enough exposure to spongebob (i've watch a lot of the early seasons but missed out on more than half), but while poor squidward is an unfortunate victim of spongebob's antics, he doesn't get abused THAT badly relative to other buttmonkeys. (though again i could be completely wrong off on that!)
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Jun 19, 2021 20:52
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fartknocker posted:I haven’t kept up with the show, but when did that happen? For a long time, he was just a weird former East German skier. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz7I1cgrjy4
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Jun 19, 2021 22:23
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mind the walrus posted:Yeah the show had some classic Seth MacFarlane edgelord throwaways about "is Klaus a Nazi or not?" but by the 4th or 5th season it was very much "no, he's definitely not." For the first 10+ seasons he definitely was. Despite the lack of cutaways American Dad was always just as edgy/violent/gory and mean-spirited as Family Guy. Then the change of network added swearing, and it started making more and more callbacks to previous episodes since all the original writing staff had been replaced a few times over as that's what happens in American shows. MacFarlane was never a major presence in the writing of any of them, he's got a handful of episode writing credits over a few dozens seasons. His co-creators probably deserve far more of the praise/blame for the differences between the shows.
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Jun 19, 2021 22:50
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Yeah I stopped watching American dad a bit ago but Claus was a Nazi was always pretty obvious. Maybe that changed but it was a thing for a long time.
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Jun 19, 2021 23:05
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 What's the context for the first clip? Why is Francine kicking the girl out? Surely it's not for the obvious reason?
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Jun 19, 2021 23:23
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American Dad already has an actually funny mascot character so the bad fish should get bent.
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Jun 19, 2021 23:28
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Vandar posted:
CharlestheHammer posted:Yeah I stopped watching American dad a bit ago but Claus was a Nazi was always pretty obvious. Maybe that changed but it was a thing for a long time.
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Jun 19, 2021 23:29
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Kevin DuBrow posted:His sister keeps wrecking his work out of ignorant curiosity and inability to not push large red buttons. She's actually quite protective and loving of him. There's even an episode that shows how in old age she's still the caretaker for a senile Dexter.
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Jun 19, 2021 23:31
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mind the walrus posted:It's lame. It turns out she hates left-handed people because she was forced to be a righty as a child. American Dad is a lot better than Family Guy but often that's damning with faint praise. They do have legitimate highs though-- the Christmas specials in particular are a highlight. This and Futurama are the only show I can think of where I didn't think the holiday episodes actively suck balls
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Jun 19, 2021 23:40
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it's been a long time since i saw the early episodes of AD but i thought the entire purpose of him being a fish in the first place was some kind of punishment for being a captured nazi?
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Jun 20, 2021 00:52
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Mr Interweb posted:it's been a long time since i saw the early episodes of AD but i thought the entire purpose of him being a fish in the first place was some kind of punishment for being a captured nazi? Nah, they just wanted East Germany to lose at skiing in the Olympics one year.
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Jun 20, 2021 00:53
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Kwyndig posted:Nah, they just wanted East Germany to lose at skiing in the Olympics one year. so why is he a fish?
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Jun 20, 2021 01:18
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Mr Interweb posted:so why is he a fish? First thing they had on hand to swap brains with.
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Jun 20, 2021 01:21
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Mr Interweb posted:so why is he a fish? I think it was the only body the CIA had available at the time.
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Jun 20, 2021 01:23
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And they did that cause it was his punishment for losing a ski tournament?
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Jun 20, 2021 04:43
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Now that I know the fish's backstory, I'm more questioning how the fish is still alive. He's even old for a human, and I assume he's got goldfish biology.
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Jun 20, 2021 04:51
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Yeah and how is there an alien
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Jun 20, 2021 05:20
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Cleretic posted:Now that I know the fish's backstory, I'm more questioning how the fish is still alive. He's even old for a human, and I assume he's got goldfish biology. They don't really address this but nevertheless every couple of years they do a story where he gets switched out to something else with the idea that when it goes back to him being a fish it is a different body.
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Jun 20, 2021 05:29
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SOMA but with gold fish.
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Jun 20, 2021 05:46
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Cleretic posted:Now that I know the fish's backstory, I'm more questioning how the fish is still alive. He's even old for a human, and I assume he's got goldfish biology. Goldfish should live 15-20 years maybe more, the show is on I think the 17th season, he's fine.
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Jun 20, 2021 06:31
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The oldest goldfish on record lived to age 50. Amazing what will happen when you nurture an animal instead of forcing it to live in a tiny prison prison, drinking it's own piss and poo poo 24/7
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Jun 20, 2021 06:50
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Mr Interweb posted:And they did that cause it was his punishment for losing a ski tournament? No, he was a champion East German skiier that they didn't want winning the Olympic event, so they swapped his brain with a goldfish and never changed it back.
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Jun 20, 2021 06:59
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Cleretic posted:Now that I know the fish's backstory, I'm more questioning how the fish is still alive. He's even old for a human, and I assume he's got goldfish biology. Well, considering most Olympic athletes are relatively young when they compete (in their prime and all) so I'd say 20's and 30's would be average enough off the cuff. It would be fair to assume Klaus was within that range when he was turned into a fish, so a post-war baby. So, basically a mid-to-late generation 'Boomer', starting to get old now. I haven't seen enough of the show to know how accurate CharlestheHammer is about it being obvious. but I wouldn't bank on it considering the established origin. Picnic Princess posted:The oldest goldfish on record lived to age 50. Some friends of mine put in a pond about twenty years ago with a pump and little waterfall to keep the circulation going. Aside from losing a couple to raccoons the first week before they realized they neglected to stretch mesh over it, the others have been happily getting larger ever since. It's relaxing to pull up a chair and watch 'em swim, and to see how much they've grown since we first released them back then.
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Jun 20, 2021 10:08
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We used to have a few koi and big goldfish in a pond, and they were just the chillest big lumps ever. They'd come to get handfed snacks, and sometimes in spring, the boys would get too rowdy and jump right out of the pond on to the bank. They'd just lie there until one of us noticed and came running out to throw them back in, and then they'd swim off, happy as ever. One of the goldfish got grabbed by a cat once, but we found him before he was killed. He miraculously healed up perfectly after a trip to the vets for antibiotics, he lived for at least another 10 years - very scarred but otherwise healthy. We called him Claude btw.
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Jun 20, 2021 10:18
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Pookah posted:We used to have a few koi and big goldfish in a pond, and they were just the chillest big lumps ever. They'd come to get handfed snacks, and sometimes in spring, the boys would get too rowdy and jump right out of the pond on to the bank. My brother is a scaffolder and one day at work he found a goldish in a puddle on the ground. Fish was about three inches long. He brought it home in his lunchbox and we put it in the aquarium and when we gave it away ten years later it was still going strong, had grown to about eight inches. Just a basic normal goldfish, not a froofy one. Once it got stuck in a tunnel thing and we had to break that open so it could get out. That fish was sturdy as hell.
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Jun 20, 2021 19:10
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yeah goldfish basically only die like they do because so many people go "i can keep this in a bowl" this can get huge https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/02/13/man-catches-20-pound-goldfish-kentucky-using-leftover-biscuit/2857138002/ edit: may not actually be a goldfish
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Jun 20, 2021 19:34
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Koi are even more nuts, supposedly the record is 226 years https://www.fishlaboratory.com/fish/koi-hanako-longest-living-fish-ever
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Jun 20, 2021 19:46
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The whole buttmonkey thing going out of fashion might also be because a lot of writers having grown up dealing with normalised bullying and abuse don't find it nearly as funny, on top of a few shows having run the idea so thoroughly into the ground that there's not really anywhere left to go with it.
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Jun 21, 2021 01:49
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There’s about a 30-year gap between representation of childhood in media and the nature of media, so there’s definitely something to that. Remember that the things you grew up watching were written by boomers remembering the 60s.
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Jun 21, 2021 02:02
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I'm suddenly reminded of Stephen King 50s/80s bullies and how they're always pulling literal switchblades and seriously physically harming the kids, and that would explain a lot-- Boomers only recognizing bullying as hardcore physical abuse is very on-brand for them.
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Jun 21, 2021 02:11
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Late-season Klaus rules because instead of "boring voice of reason"/German stereotypes/nazi jokes he's now "Florida bro but a german goldfish" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArQX7GwvCp0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9Kf1RUHLxE
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Jun 21, 2021 02:31
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mind the walrus posted:I'm suddenly reminded of Stephen King 50s/80s bullies and how they're always pulling literal switchblades and seriously physically harming the kids, and that would explain a lot-- Boomers only recognizing bullying as hardcore physical abuse is very on-brand for them. This 100% King is totally on the money with how violent and animalistic bullying was pre internet. You haven't known true fear until you see the full whites of someone's eyes when they enter chimpanzee mode on you. You learned that it was your state-approved punishment for being... whatever it was that set the bullies off. Even well into the 90's violence of all kinds was just shrugged off in school. I genuinely have no idea what the line was that would get attention from the teachers. One time a heavily bullied kid shot himself on the steps of the school close to mine, where they found his body on the front doorstep the following morning. I remember a boomer teacher of mine saying, "That's God's way of weeding out the weak ones." I mean, what the gently caress was the line for them?
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Jun 21, 2021 02:42
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mind the walrus posted:I'm suddenly reminded of Stephen King 50s/80s bullies and how they're always pulling literal switchblades and seriously physically harming the kids, and that would explain a lot-- Boomers only recognizing bullying as hardcore physical abuse is very on-brand for them. I have a feeling that stuff is historically accurate for the 1950s, at least for the kind of place where King grew up. That and the wild cartoonish racism with 10,000 exotic slurs I’ve never seen anywhere else.
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Jun 21, 2021 02:43
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:I have a feeling that stuff is historically accurate for the 1950s, at least for the kind of place where King grew up. That and the wild cartoonish racism with 10,000 exotic slurs I’ve never seen anywhere else. Oh yeah I wasn't disputing the accuracy at all, just noting that it would explain a lot for why Boomers were genuinely blind to things like verbal/emotional abuse until the violence in schools got toned down a few notches. Plethora posted:Even well into the 90's violence of all kinds was just shrugged off in school. I genuinely have no idea what the line was that would get attention from the teachers. One time a heavily bullied kid shot himself on the steps of the school close to mine, where they found his body on the front doorstep the following morning. I remember a boomer teacher of mine saying, "That's God's way of weeding out the weak ones." This is an awkward time to remind you that the Eugenics movement and a lot of the "Social Darwinism" nonsense that the Nazis loved was homegrown American horseshit.
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Jun 21, 2021 02:58
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:I have a feeling that stuff is historically accurate for the 1950s, at least for the kind of place where King grew up. That and the wild cartoonish racism with 10,000 exotic slurs I’ve never seen anywhere else. And these were the people who'd grow up to say that the cities are dangerous and violent and genuinely worry their kids won't come back alive from them.
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Jun 21, 2021 03:20
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:That and the wild cartoonish racism with 10,000 exotic slurs I’ve never seen anywhere else. Yeah, speaking of…I’m actually reading Mr. Mercedes right now and…woof. Another staple of Mr. King’s works that don’t sit well at all are his constant attempts at “good” racism. Every likeable black character seems to have to happily engage in ironic, self-deprecating slurs and horrible attempts at outdated patois. It’s honestly difficult to read now.
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Jun 21, 2021 03:23
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Phylodox posted:Yeah, speaking of…I’m actually reading Mr. Mercedes right now and…woof. Another staple of Mr. King’s works that don’t sit well at all are his constant attempts at “good” racism. Every likeable black character seems to have to happily engage in ironic, self-deprecating slurs and horrible attempts at outdated patois. It’s honestly difficult to read now. and that poo poo was published in 2014 goddamn
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Jun 21, 2021 03:36
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mind the walrus posted:and that poo poo was published in 2014 goddamn Yeah, but it’s a constant theme in a lot of his works. I remember reading IT when I was a kid and thinking how cool the characters were for having that easy camaraderie where they could rib each other like that. Fortunately, I grew out of it, but it looks like ol’ Steve-o never did.
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Jun 21, 2021 03:49
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mind the walrus posted:This is an awkward time to remind you that the Eugenics movement and a lot of the "Social Darwinism" nonsense that the Nazis loved was homegrown American horseshit. Eugenics and social darwinism were concepts the entire western world was crowing about. You can throw a stone at basically any major historical figure circa 1880s to the 1920s and they probably were supporters of eugenics.
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Jun 21, 2021 04:23
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ishikabibble posted:Eugenics and social darwinism were concepts the entire western world was crowing about. You can throw a stone at basically any major historical figure circa 1880s to the 1920s and they probably were supporters of eugenics. not to touch poop but literally today there was a person probed for saying that there was a "rape gene" passed on by rapists. The social darwinist movement went along hand in hand with the Social Gospel movement in the late 19th century. For alot of people, it was about helping people. For others, they're taking it to the extreme of "criminals are outbreeding us which leads to more crime."
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Jun 21, 2021 05:45
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