|
njsykora posted:Honestly, if you think the hot tub stream stuff is explicit I hope you never go to a pool or beach or outside during summer. Duh, I'm watching Twitch, the gently caress am I gonna do outdoors?
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2021 16:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 20, 2024 17:16 |
|
|
njsykora posted:Honestly, if you think the hot tub stream stuff is explicit I hope you never go to a pool or beach or outside during summer. --edit: To be fair, in that context and relation, I'd probably prefer some bikini girl riding some dumbass plastic flamingo over the new shtick of prominently featuring a butt in tight yoga pants into the camera and slobbering wet over some silicone ears. Former seems a saner picture for a kid to run into. Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Jun 21, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2021 16:06
|
|
|
I’d rather someone role models off a vtuber or bikini model then The Quartering.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2021 17:55
|
|
|
Somehow I feel like kids shouldn't be navigating any websites unsupervised. At least until they're 13-14.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2021 18:16
|
|
|
VostokProgram posted:Somehow I feel like kids shouldn't be navigating any websites unsupervised. At least until they're 13-14. Lol. You should do your best to pay attention, and lock down where you can, but that’s not the reality any more. Parents can’t watch what their kid is doing 100% of the time, and the internet point of contact is no longer some super slow box in the living room for all to see.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2021 18:31
|
|
|
Pilfered Pallbearers posted:Lol. Its hard for parents to monitor their kids today. Also the same parents usually have a lot of cards. Nothing stopping a lonely kid from buying a donation and hear a real person say their username without the feeling of judgement. Imagine all the boomers had the same instant access instead of having to deal with squinting at the tv scrambling for a hint of boob on playboy.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2021 19:03
|
|
|
The "think of the kids" thing is bullshit. Twitch's content rules are already more strict that Youtube's. If you think Twitch is a danger to your children then your children should not be online unsupervised because every single one of them is on Youtube. The fact that most of the anti-women-in-bikinis rants are from single childless men shows how shallow it is. It is just another way to try to keep women down. Men are angry that the site has moved from gaming to "Just Chatting", and now it is full of women in "their domain". What Twitch SHOULD do is enforce the "mature content" filters. EVIL Gibson posted:Its hard for parents to monitor their kids today. This is a terrible argument. The same unsupervised kids who have access to their parent's cards can also just hop on any porn site. I'm not even a boomer and even I had access to the boomer equivalent of internet porn as a child: a plastic bag full of porn mags discarded in the woods behind the bus stop
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 05:55
|
|
|
Tuxedo Gin posted:Men are angry that the site has moved from gaming to "Just Chatting", and now it is full of women in "their domain". This is just not true. I have no horse in this race and I also don't really like Twitch, but that is just a dumb thing to say and does nothing to help fix the actual underlying issues at play here.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 06:05
|
|
|
Canine Blues Arooo posted:This is just not true. I have no horse in this race and I also don't really like Twitch, but that is just a dumb thing to say and does nothing to help fix the actual underlying issues at play here. What do you view as the underlying issues? Seeing as you don't like Twitch, perhaps you are not aware of what the actual arguments being made are? Because there are a LOT of on record rants from male streamers targeting women for "having it easy" on Twitch and lamenting the downfall of Twitch from a place for gamers to what it is today. Not to mention the harassment from viewers. If the argument really is about social decency, then perhaps they should do a better job policing the hate in their community before they worry about women wearing the wrong clothes. EDIT: This culture war has been going on for at least half a decade on Twitch. The hot tub category is not the primary or sole issue here. The hot tub category is Twitch trying to compromise and find a place for multiple, often incompatible, segments of their community. Tuxedo Gin fucked around with this message at 06:21 on Jun 22, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 06:18
|
|
|
I don't work for Twitch or Amazon, but I've been close enough to issues like this that I feel that I can ID the root cause with a very high degree of confidence: Advertisers. Additional disclosure: I don't like Twitch, but I do keep up with the subculture - partially because I work in the industry and it's more or less unavoidable, but partially because I feel a need to understand what the hell is happening in that sphere. I've been watching it since Justin, and while I prefer to watch the more 'boomer' streamers like Kripp, I'll watch the popular streamers of whatever game I happen to be working on at the time. Anyway, Advertisers... The 'booba' stream is not new. It might have been more subtle in the earlier days, but it was a massive part of the popular games of the day. The top League streamer for years in the early 2010s was a female streamer who really leaned into that subgenre, but other games had similar women doing roughly the same thing with a ton of success stories. At the time, no one cared - Advertisers didn't care because they didn't have a clue what the gently caress was going on and Streaming was still young. Twitch *certainly* didn't care because advertiser money flowed heavy and fast. Even at the time, the conversation among some of the B and C-list Twitch streamers was all about how being an attractive female was easy street for views. I don't have stats on that and the thing is, it doesn't even matter. Finding success on Twitch is mostly luck, but it's also about finding your audience and carving out the niche of your show. These women did that very well. Everyone is happy because everyone is getting paid a shitload to let it ride. Fast forward almost a decade, and these same niches exist, but the big change that's afoot is that targeted advertising is becoming scary good at picking it's audience, and advertisers are becoming more familiar with Twitch as a platform, and in the streaming world as a whole. The tools for choosing who you market to are truly insane on these well-developed platforms and this ushers in a new change: Selectively picking who you market to with high precision, and what channels you market on. This is generally done via explicit and inferred demographic information, but also by stream tags, stream content, and of course, stream categories. This was originally a feature unique to AdSense, and especially prevalent on YouTube, but there is historical precedent for this kind of division and sequestering long before Twitch's kerfuffle. There is a reason why some Youtube views pay $1.00 / 1000 views, and others pay $10.00 / thousand views: Bidding wars on a very specific set of demos and content. Brands are very controlling of their brand perception, and they market very selectively. If your ad starts to run on a stream featured on booba.tv, that 'Might Make The Brand Look Bad™', depending on what you are marketing and the personal feelings of whomever is making those decisions. If enough advertisers ask Twitch for tools to better choose where they market, then we land where we are today. Here's what very likely happened: A critical mass of the advertising income has requested to be granted a way to remove themselves from that pool of content. Twitch can't just flag streams for arbitrary content, so they make a set of changes that can support the changes requested: A new category of streams. Advertisers can explicitly opt out. In the meantime, Twitch keeps that money in-network and just channels it elsewhere on the platform. Twitch does not give a poo poo about the children. Twitch doesn't care about the 'attractive women have it easy' culture war nonsense. Twitch's only motivation here is, 'Our viewership is a very lucrative marketing demo -- how do we keep it that way, and how do we make this platform attractive for marketing?' This was a compromise designed for marketing purposes and nothing else. This has literal zero to do with some men being mad at women. Canine Blues Arooo fucked around with this message at 07:41 on Jun 22, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 07:28
|
|
|
That gets most of the way there. The thing is, there’s an incentive for these women to get out of that category, because it’s not listed on the front page and it puts them into too much competition with each other, rather than everyone else on twitch. And the result is a continual game of malicious compliance on the part of Amouranth et al, where they find new categories to raid and new ways to stick as close to the letter of the law as possible while doing what they do, followed by a fresh crackdown and some new rules, and repeat. (I doubt the Amouranths of the world care about the ad revenue split from Twitch; they’re in it for the subs and to feed traffic off the platform where they can take an even larger slice)
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 07:33
|
|
|
Canine Blues Arooo posted:I don't work for Twitch or Amazon, but I've been close enough to issues like this that I feel that I can ID the root cause with a very high degree of confidence: Advertisers. Thanks for a well thought out reply that is a lot more informative than "that is a dumb thing to say". Twitch's motivations, as you lay them out, are totally unrelated to all the previous points in this thread, and all the points being raised by Twitch's community. Even if Twitch's motivations are solely advertising related (which I'll concede is probably likely), the conversation in the community (and in this thread so far) is not about their advertising, but it is about social decency, policing women, and misogynists being angry. You're looking solely at Twitch's decision to create a new category from a business/industry standpoint, and completely ignoring what conversations are happing as a result of that decision. So I'll retract the part of my post that says Twitch created hot tub streaming as a compromise. Either way, its mere existence has fanned the flames. The conversation out there is still about morality, not about advertising. "Think of the children" is stupid here.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 07:44
|
|
|
That's all fine, but it's critically important to not assign meaning to some cooperate actions where none exists. Twitch culture is pretty bad, and that should be discussed and hashed out to hopefully improve that, and this recent set of actions might have even stoked a specific set of flames re: that conversation. However, one cannot assign meaning to some action where it doesn't exist. Twitch's lovely culture and Twitch's marketing-driven policies are completely unrelated and should not be conflated in a discussion.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 07:48
|
|
|
double post
Fame Douglas fucked around with this message at 10:22 on Jun 22, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 10:17
|
|
|
Combat Pretzel posted:What does that have to do with anything? When you go to a pool or beach, it's an expectation to see that stuff to some regard. If you go to a (previously) gaming focused presumably kid-friendly streaming site, that's less so. As prudish as that may sound, personally I don't even mind. Until I think of my 8 year old niece and the new role models she'll be running into when she tries to navigate to Twitch to watch someone play Minecraft. Twitch isn't and has never been a "kid-friendly streaming site". And I'd be more worried about your 8 year old niece having nightmares from seeing some axe-murder game on Twitch, her potentially seeing a woman in a bikini (or "that stuff", as you would put it) is completely normal and not all that worrying.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 10:22
|
|
|
Advertisers are totally worried enough about seeing women in swimsuits to pull their stuff, after all look how quick they are to pull their ads from all the racist conspiracy theorists on Youtube oh wait they don't do that either because they get views.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 10:34
|
|
|
Tuxedo Gin posted:
Your life experience is.... GASP... Different?!?!??? man, crazy. gently caress who would have thought? parents having a difficult time today is still true
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 13:53
|
|
|
njsykora posted:Advertisers are totally worried enough about seeing women in swimsuits to pull their stuff, after all look how quick they are to pull their ads from all the racist conspiracy theorists on Youtube oh wait they don't do that either because they get views. The thing about giant social media platforms like youtube is that the advertisers aren't picking the content to run against, they're picking demographics & interests as provided by the platform's panopticon. Nobody ran ads on Alex Jones' radio show except other gutter-sucking con-artist fucks. Alex Jones moves to youtube and he can get pickup truck ads, because all the decisions are made by The Algorithm. If youtube offered a "avoid controversial content" filter most of the advertisers would have checked that box. Youtube doesn't have that checkbox because "controversial" = "lots of views". It's the platforms that promote whatever gets them the most clicks, not the advertisers. They only shut off that spigot once the stink gets bad enough that big companies notice. I think Twitch is a bit different from youtube because they built their site on one thing, gaming, and their pitch is that the whole site is a core demographic that's dedicated to one type of content. Thirst streamers aren't exactly part of that pitch. (But they get lots of views, so just like youtube twitch isn't strictly kicking them out. Twitch would like for them to somehow get lots of views while also being totally invisible.)
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 16:54
|
|
|
Tuxedo Gin posted:The fact that most of the anti-women-in-bikinis rants are from single childless men shows how shallow it is. It is just another way to try to keep women down. Men are angry that the site has moved from gaming to "Just Chatting", and now it is full of women in "their domain". But regardless of that, there are women who do not produce that type of content, but are affected by it. They get lot more sexual harassment in their chats. And there's more of hurdle now for women to put being a streamer on their resume (it is experience with video and audio capture equipment and web broadcasting) or be open about that it's their job/hobby because of the association with sexual content.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2021 01:50
|
|
|
That's playing into the horrible idea that there's a "right" kind of woman, and those who are doing it wrong are therefore ruining it for everyone. Like women streamers would be welcomed into the Twitch ecosystem with open arms if they dress modestly and don't swear and conform to the silent sexless housewife image these dudes actually want.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2021 02:16
|
|
|
As someone who mods for a woman streamer that dresses conservatively, I can anecdotally say that she gets a lot more "woman shouldn't play video games, you are poo poo. go back to the kitchen" comments than sexual harassment as a result of bikini streamers existing. And the sexual harassment would happen regardless of the presence of bikini streamers. Women literally can't go anywhere on the internet and not get comments from dudes telling them to show off their tits. That sexual harassment is a deep cultural issue related to the internet that has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not there are women who wear bikinis or yoga pants on Twitch. To tie this back to the thread's actual content, I have honestly been really impressed with Linus' channel and community for the level of support women presenters get in the comments. I'm sure there is a lot of hate that gets deleted but I haven't seen any of it yet.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2021 02:54
|
|
|
The internet was a mistake
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2021 05:57
|
|
|
VostokProgram posted:The internet was a mistake 100% agree
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2021 06:46
|
|
|
VostokProgram posted:The internet was a mistake Finally something the whole thread can agree on.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2021 06:52
|
|
|
Tuxedo Gin posted:As someone who mods for a woman streamer that dresses conservatively, I can anecdotally say that she gets a lot more "woman shouldn't play video games, you are poo poo. go back to the kitchen" comments than sexual harassment as a result of bikini streamers existing. And the sexual harassment would happen regardless of the presence of bikini streamers. Women literally can't go anywhere on the internet and not get comments from dudes telling them to show off their tits. That sexual harassment is a deep cultural issue related to the internet that has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not there are women who wear bikinis or yoga pants on Twitch. The streamers that have complained about the hot-tub and ASMR metas are the likes of Pokimane and Malena who are big enough that they show up near these streams in the directory and in the recommended bar for them, and the big ASMR-specific streamers like CopyKat who show up right next to them when they're in that category. Trying to play this off as being about "women who wear bikinis or yoga pants" is disingenuous. They're wearing a bikini, while writing the names of donors on the inside of their thighs and humping an inflatable banana, and wearing yoga pants, while laying spreadeagle on a bed, licking and moaning into a 3Dio. What they're wearing is incidental to what they're doing. It's understandable that other streamers don't want to be associated with this.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2021 07:44
|
|
|
Licarn posted:The streamers that have complained about the hot-tub and ASMR metas are the likes of Pokimane and Malena who are big enough that they show up near these streams in the directory and in the recommended bar for them, and the big ASMR-specific streamers like CopyKat who show up right next to them when they're in that category. Which is exactly why Twitch should enforce proper tagging and categorizing or streams. They should also enforce the mature content toggle, not just for women writing people's names on their thighs, but also for the guys with 1.5 million followers and 10k+ active subs going off about "fingerbanging chicks" and talking about dicks and other sexual content. It's absolutely understandable that people don't want to be associated with such content, and it is up to Twitch to properly categorize and serve up the content to who they want to see it. There is absolutely nothing immoral or even indecent about writing donors names on your body and licking a microphone, so it is pretty disingenuous to get all worked up about it on a site where you can watch ultraviolent games or listen to highly sexual ranting and other questionable poo poo, including borderline if not outright radicalizing content. Most of all Twitch needs to be clear. One of the big issues is that they arbitrarily ban people for poo poo that everyone else is doing. Their content rules are specifically vague and their enforcement is sporadic and inconsistent. If they want to decide that Twitch is not the space for such content, then they need to make their policy clear. Until them, lay the blame on Twitch for failing to manage their content properly rather than getting all worked up about people doing whatever they can to earn a living in a highly competitive and hosed up market.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2021 11:43
|
|
|
Dudes get called every variation of racist and homophobic names that the sewers of the internet can come up with. It’s the internet. The gender is irrelevant. The internet is just toxic and was a mistake.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2021 15:37
|
|
|
Comatoast posted:Dudes get called every variation of racist and homophobic names that the sewers of the internet can come up with. It’s the internet. The gender is irrelevant. The internet is just toxic and was a mistake. Nah. It is 1000x worse for women and even a cursory glance at the poo poo coming their way regularly bears this out. ed: like, yeah, toxicity is everywhere and it ain't good for dudes either! But the difference in degree is large enough that it still bears mentioning and not just handwaving away with "INTERNET BAD"
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2021 17:04
|
|
|
Comatoast posted:Dudes get called every variation of racist and homophobic names that the sewers of the internet can come up with. It’s the internet. The gender is irrelevant. The internet is just toxic and was a mistake. I've been called plenty of terrible poo poo on the internet but I've never had someone I've never met online stalk me, show up at my place of business, or repeatedly DM me dick pics But yes gender is irrelevant online 
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2021 18:04
|
|
|
hey i'm not a mod or something but twitch isn't youtube and gamers of all stripes or genders aren't the tech nerds this thread is for, hence it being under sh/sc. maybe we can talk about steve getting his hands on one of the new Intel GPUs or something?
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2021 18:12
|
|
|
Arivia posted:maybe we can talk about steve getting his hands on one of the new Intel GPUs or something? I was very surprised that GN didn't pick up on DG1 not using GDDR memory as a possible cause for the bad frame-pacing and instead put it up to driver issues
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2021 18:16
|
|
|
Just looking at techpowerup's specs, 128bit LPDDR4X gives the DG1 roughly 4x the memory bandwidth of the DDR4 1030 and 1.4x the bandwidth of the GDDR5 1030, so I doubt it's a problem with such a low-end GPU. They're going to need GDDR6 for the higher end models to be competitive with anything, though.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2021 20:01
|
|
|
something I've noticed is GN's CPU b-roll where they put some kind of masking tape over the the lower half of the CPU's IHS to hide some of the information I've noticed this with their Ryzen 5 3600, and now again with their 5000-series APUs   what could that be about? Could you potentially divine some kind of information about it that GN would want to keep private, but not from the other CPUs? I went back to their original 3600 review and they said that it was a production sample, and then the APUs I think must have come from a prebuilt that they then took it out of - could that be it? They're trying to hide any details that might allow the source to be identifiable?
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2021 13:59
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:something I've noticed is GN's CPU b-roll where they put some kind of masking tape over the the lower half of the CPU's IHS to hide some of the information there was an incidental text drop the first time it came up - those are the chips purchased via OEMs and the code, in theory, could be used to determine which customer is actually a reviewer. i don't quite understand why they didn't cover the QR code consistently, though.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2021 14:28
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:I went back to their original 3600 review and they said that it was a production sample, and then the APUs I think must have come from a prebuilt that they then took it out of - could that be it? They're trying to hide any details that might allow the source to be identifiable? From the 5600G video: 
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2021 14:30
|
|
|
CoolCab posted:i don't quite understand why they didn't cover the QR code consistently, though. Anything they get directly from AMD or Intel as review samples they don't need to. The company knows what they gave to them, and there's nothing to hide. The more common reason for tape over a CPU ID is when an outlet acquires an engineering sample ahead of time through "back channel" connections. In that case they need to hide it to protect the source.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2021 16:50
|
|
|
The best tech channel on youtube just uploaded a new video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmcZsQXOKEA
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2021 20:03
|
|
|
EvilBlackRailgun posted:The best tech channel on youtube just uploaded a new video Wtf did I just watch?
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2021 20:10
|
|
|
It's like two April 1sts in one year
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2021 20:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 20, 2024 17:16 |
|
|
EvilBlackRailgun posted:The best tech channel on youtube just uploaded a new video
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2021 21:57
|
|